Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”

Highfather_24 said:
Weird take.

Not all midfielders are great at defending, doesnt make them a passenger. Its not about talent either. Would you say "McFred is a more balanced midfield, although Juan Mata has more talent than those two combined". Its not a question of talent, its a question of position. You shouldnt play an attacking midfielder in a midfield 2. You cannot play players like Grealish, Isco, Pogba, Bruno in a midfield 2 and then be surprised that its not working. And that natural CMs like McT and Fred, give the team more balance.

Its not a question of workrate or effort, its just a square peg/round hole situation.
Click to expand...

It does though when you're the only top club that has 2 traditional central midfielders. Pogba isn't combative enough in central midfield and it's easy to mark him out while pushing him farther away from goal or just have players marking him throughout.

The team functioned without Pogba in central midfield better because they provided cover, energy, and pressed high. They won the ball back at higher positions because their central midfield. Their awareness is better than Pogbas.

Pogba isn't just an attacking midfielder, he can be a traditional midfielder, however his awareness and discipline is just lacking....especially as part of a midfield two. In the Premier League, he can be limited and it shows. He's always been surrounded by two other central midfielders for France and Juve, and that's where he excels. United don't play that way and shouldn't when it has shown that they can win without Pogba, in addition to having at least one central midfielder not really that good or well rounded (e.g. McTominay).

Paul Scholes wasn't good at defending, but he wasn't a passenger. Why? Because he was aware of his surroundings and was okay playing the ball "safe" and rarely getting caught in compromising positions. One touch, move, get the ball back, pass, move, boom.
 
sp_107 said:
Wondering if Pogba leaves then players like Varane / Carmavinga may not join us
Click to expand...

Varane has thought highly of United since before Pogba and will continue to do so. Camavinga is interested by United, but not as much as playing in Spain which is he preferred move.

Varane has been a fan of Rio Ferdinand since his United days and been courted by SAF/United 10 years ago. Pogba isn't dependent on anyone, except himself. Varane makes his own decisions and the 'project' he's joining is with or without Pogba.
 
sp_107 said:
Wondering if Pogba leaves then players like Varane / Carmavinga may not join us
Click to expand...

Varane and Pogba had a massive falling out during the Euro's, Varane basically hates Pogba now #truestory
 
UnitedSofa said:
Stats don't always show the big picture...

When you put it that way.....

With Fred starting
Played: 47
Won: 27
Drawn: 10
Lost: 10

Goals per game: 1.82
Goals against per game: 0.85

Points per game: 1.93
Win rate: 57.4%
Loss rate: 21.3%

Without Fred starting
Played: 26
Won: 13
Drawn: 7
Lost: 6

Goals per game: 1.96
Goals against per game: 1.07

Points per game: 1.76
Win rate: 50%
Loss rate: 23.1%

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...s-record-with-and-without-fred-since-2019-20/
Click to expand...

What are you implying here? It seems you only strengthened the poster’s point because your stats don’t say we are better with Pogba. If anything, it shows Pogba is less effective than Fred in our team means it doesn’t change the point of the poster you replied.
 
I kinda stopped caring whether Pogba stays or goes for about a year now. It's not even because of any of the off-the-field stuff (Raiola). He just hasn't been dependable in terms of performances for us. Even last season, he had a run of 4-5 good (maybe great) games but again got injured. From my pov, it would be great business if we managed to get 50M for him this summer.
 
Juanuzayne said:
Mentioning the likes of Southampton, Leeds, Everton, you essentially made my point which is bolded in my quoted post. Plus he’s never really directly competed with Mctominay for a spot. His direct competition is Fred or Rashford I would say.

Let me be clear, I understand that Pogba isn’t the ideal midfielder for us. He’s never exactly fit in. But the moments of brilliance and how he can carry the team at times is far more important than anything Fred or Mctominay will ever do for us. Selling him for a mere 50 million euro would be a disaster. We are better off letting him go for free next year and get the most out of our squad this year with Sancho and Varane improving the squad immensely. If Pogba leaves, it’s like taking 2 steps forward but a massive one backwards. There are no good midfielders I can think of that we’d be able to replace him with for 50 mil.
Click to expand...

Those 50m that we can get from Pogba can be used on one of Saul, Kessie, Bissouma, Camavinga, Goretzka, Brozović. They might not be as good as Pogba as an individual player but as a team, they fit to the system more than Pogba.
 
MattofManchester said:
Not really sure how you've managed to come to this conclusion.
Click to expand...
Who do you suggest we sign instead? Who do you think could come in, replace him, make our midfield better and turn us into contenders? Or are you suggesting relying on McFred to win titles?
 
charlenefan said:
Varane and Pogba had a massive falling out during the Euro's, Varane basically hates Pogba now #truestory
Click to expand...


They had a row during a game over a goal i wouldn't say it's a lifelong hate situation.

If he does go i would prefer us to to give games to the likes of Van Der Beek, Hannibal and Garner rather than spend 50 million on anyone else.

At some point you have to trust the players you already have
 
Didn't we already replace him with Bruno?
 
edcunited1878 said:
Varane has thought highly of United since before Pogba and will continue to do so. Camavinga is interested by United, but not as much as playing in Spain which is he preferred move.

Varane has been a fan of Rio Ferdinand since his United days and been courted by SAF/United 10 years ago. Pogba isn't dependent on anyone, except himself. Varane makes his own decisions and the 'project' he's joining is with or without Pogba.
Click to expand...

Like it, we need players like Varane who are so keen to join us
 
edcunited1878 said:
It does though when you're the only top club that has 2 traditional central midfielders.
Click to expand...

Bayern and City also play a 4-2-3-1. Liverpool has played that way last season a few times(with Firmino as a #10 and Salah up top).

edcunited1878 said:
Pogba isn't combative enough in central midfield and it's easy to mark him out while pushing him farther away from goal or just have players marking him throughout. The team functioned without Pogba in central midfield better because they provided cover, energy, and pressed high. They won the ball back at higher positions because their central midfield. Their awareness is better than Pogbas.
Click to expand...

Yeah cause they are CMs. Unlike Pogba.

edcunited1878 said:
Pogba isn't just an attacking midfielder, he can be a traditional midfielder, however his awareness and discipline is just lacking....especially as part of a midfield two. In the Premier League, he can be limited and it shows. He's always been surrounded by two other central midfielders for France and Juve, and that's where he excels. United don't play that way and shouldn't when it has shown that they can win without Pogba, in addition to having at least one central midfielder not really that good or well rounded (e.g. McTominay).
Click to expand...

Your whole point seems to be "Pogba is a CM but is not good enough to be a CM". But he is not a CM. Whatever you said about Pogba in bold, can easily be said about any #10 or 8/10 hybrid like Grealish or Maddison. "Oh Grealish can be a traditional midfielder, however his awareness and discipline is lacking" yeah no shit sherlock that's because he is not a centre midfielder. "Oh Messi would be a great right back, just his tackling and discliple is lacking" jesus fecking wept

edcunited1878 said:
Paul Scholes wasn't good at defending, but he wasn't a passenger. Why? Because he was aware of his surroundings and was okay playing the ball "safe" and rarely getting caught in compromising positions. One touch, move, get the ball back, pass, move, boom.
Click to expand...

Paul Scholes has almost always played as a CM, he was not an attacking midfielder(apart from that 2002/03 season and a few games here and there). Pogba is not Scholes. And he doesnt have to be just because you want him to. Just because Bruno cannot play as a DLP like Scholes wouldnt make him a passenger would it?

Pogba has always played his best football in a 3 as the furthest forward, like many other players like Isco or Fabregas. Or even Bruno for that matter. That's just his position, its not a flaw in his game. His defensive contribution as an AM is just fine. Shoehorning them as centre midfielders in a 2 wont work. Using that as a reason to call a player as a passenger doesnt make sense. When he is not played out of position(like for France or when he's not playing so deep for United), he actually is productive and works hard for the team as he is not asked to do things that are not his game. And he's far from being a "passenger".

TLDR : Your whole argument seems to be despite the fact that Pogba is an attacking midfielder, he needs to be shoehorned into a 2 man midfield, played out of position, and if he cant do that, that's a huge flaw of his game despite his "talent". Weird.
 
We can't get a decent performance out of him. We also can't get a decent fee for him. He and his agent can feck off and feck off some more. Clearly needs to be told he either sign or leave this start of the season or will not start games until contact expiry. I can imagine him walking around the pitch careless with the usual zidane turns here and there otherwise. Oh the PTSD
 
Highfather_24 said:
Bayern and City also play a 4-2-3-1. Liverpool has played that way last season a few times(with Firmino as a #10 and Salah up top).



Yeah cause they are CMs. Unlike Pogba.



Your whole point seems to be "Pogba is a CM but is not good enough to be a CM". But he is not a CM. Whatever you said about Pogba in bold, can easily be said about any #10 or 8/10 hybrid like Grealish or Maddison. "Oh Grealish can be a traditional midfielder, however his awareness and discipline is lacking" yeah no shit sherlock that's because he is not a centre midfielder. "Oh Messi would be a great right back, just his tackling and discliple is lacking" jesus fecking wept



Paul Scholes has almost always played as a CM, he was not an attacking midfielder(apart from that 2002/03 season and a few games here and there). Pogba is not Scholes. And he doesnt have to be just because you want him to. Just because Bruno cannot play as a DLP like Scholes wouldnt make him a passenger would it?

Pogba has always played his best football in a 3 as the furthest forward, like many other players like Isco or Fabregas. Or even Bruno for that matter. That's just his position, its not a flaw in his game. His defensive contribution as an AM is just fine. Shoehorning them as centre midfielders in a 2 wont work. Using that as a reason to call a player as a passenger doesnt make sense. When he is not played out of position(like for France or when he's not playing so deep for United), he actually is productive and works hard for the team as he is not asked to do things that are not his game. And he's far from being a "passenger".

TLDR : Your whole argument seems to be despite the fact that Pogba is an attacking midfielder, he needs to be shoehorned into a 2 man midfield, played out of position, and if he cant do that, that's a huge flaw of his game despite his "talent". Weird.
Click to expand...

Pogba's talent doesn't fit for what the team is trying to do. Pogba is a central midfielder. For all his attacking prowess, which you believe in more than others, his outputs in terms of goals and assists are that good. Bruno is an attacking midfielder, even if he's more of a 10/2nd striker.

Pogba has top talent, but in a league like the Premier League, a central midfield two has to be a much more box to box player because there's so much ground and players to cover.

City play with 3 central midfielders and a narrow setup. They all press and condense the pitch, which can only be done with players who are willing and able to work hard and quick off the ball and out of possession.
 
Juanuzayne said:
What are you on about? In the league last year, Pogba played:

Spurs - full 90 mins both times
Arsenal - full 90 mins both times
Liverpool - full 90 mins both times
Man City - full 90 mins once, and out with hamstring injury for second match
Chelsea - subbed in at 60 min mark, out with hamstring injury the second match.
Click to expand...
capturea7k07.png

As CM:
Spurs - 90 mins and we lost 6-1 on October 4th
Chelsea - 32 mins as a substitute on October 24th
Arsenal - 90 mins and he gave away the goal that meant we lost 1-0 on November 1st

As either a LM or RM:
City - 90 mins
Leicester - 36 mins
Liverpool - 90 mins and 90 mins
Arsenal - 90 mins
Spurs - 90 mins

Pogba's last appearance in midfield against a big(ish) team was Arsenal on November 1st (the game he gave away the goal that lost us the game). The only other match he's started in midfield was the 6-1 loss to Tottenham.

Let that sink in. Ole hasn't picked Pogba in a big PL game in midfield since last Autumn. McFred have been our clear first choice in that part of the field.

So Pogba's main competition next season won't be Fred or McTominay. It'll be Rashford, Sancho, Martial and Greenwood. And I'd fancy any of them ahead of Pogba.
 
I get the feeling the loss of Pogba would be quite similar to the Coutinho sale at Liverpool. Class player but the team becomes more complete without him and ultimately benefits without in the long run (Provided we replace wisely in the midfield that is). He isn't a good fit for our system and I'm not sure he can play with Bruno well at all unless he plays on the left wing.
 
I don't see him accepting contract this summer because in reality, it is not in his interest. When player is out of contract, he and (in this case very important) his agent are in great position. Other clubs don't need to pay fee so they can offer big contract and signing on fee. As i recall, Lewa and his agent got 15-20 mil in cash for signing for Bayern.

For us, of course, this situation is shit.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
I don't see him accepting contract this summer because in reality, it is not in his interest. When player is out of contract, he and (in this case very important) his agent are in great position. Other clubs don't need to pay fee so they can offer big contract and signing on fee. As i recall, Lewa and his agent got 15-20 mil in cash for signing for Bayern.

For us, of course, this situation is shit.
Click to expand...

Basically, in order for him to be tempted to stay, we have to pay Pogba and Raiola roughly the same amount they would get if he moved on a free transfer.
 
Last edited:
Dante said:
capturea7k07.png

As CM:
Spurs - 90 mins and we lost 6-1 on October 4th
Chelsea - 32 mins as a substitute on October 24th
Arsenal - 90 mins and he gave away the goal that meant we lost 1-0 on November 1st

As either a LM or RM:
City - 90 mins
Leicester - 36 mins
Liverpool - 90 mins and 90 mins
Arsenal - 90 mins
Spurs - 90 mins

Pogba's last appearance in midfield against a big(ish) team was Arsenal on November 1st (the game he gave away the goal that lost us the game). The only other match he's started in midfield was the 6-1 loss to Tottenham.

Let that sink in. Ole hasn't picked Pogba in a big PL game in midfield since last Autumn. McFred have been our clear first choice in that part of the field.

So Pogba's main competition next season won't be Fred or McTominay. It'll be Rashford, Sancho, Martial and Greenwood. And I'd fancy any of them ahead of Pogba.
Click to expand...

Just for correction, he played as CM vs Arsenal home in diamond formation so it's almost like he played as LM. While he moved to deeper role vs Arsenal away when McTominay got injured.

But then again, it doesn't change your and other people point that Ole never have much faith to pick Pogba in big PL games in midfield. We'll be much better with player who is natural wide player like Sancho to play wide and someone who can play in double pivot or in deeper role than Pogba. Talented but he doesn't fit to the system because he needs freedom, he lacks discipline, and his best role is right now taken by Bruno.
 
Just want to correct people saying his best position would be as a No.10 where Bruno plays - it’s not.

One of the reasons Bruno had such a transformative impact on this team is how quickly he releases the ball. It can lead to him losing it of course but the whole forward line plays quicker as a result. Pogba, on the other hand, does the opposite. He plays far slower and takes a lot of touches. That effects off the ball movement from forward players and general speed of play. Flip side is his ball retention is miles better than Bruno’s. That may suit some teams - but most importantly, it doesn’t suit this one for that position.

We’re 5 years down the line and still debating where best to play him. The answer is obvious - it’s not worked and it isn’t going to. Personally, I’ve had enough of the circus that comes with him and his agent. There is not a fecking chance he’ll sign a new deal so we have to sell now.
 
LonelyFire said:
We’re 5 years down the line and still debating where best to play him. The answer is obvious - it’s not worked and it isn’t going to. Personally, I’ve had enough of the circus that comes with him and his agent. There is not a fecking chance he’ll sign a new deal so we have to sell now.
Click to expand...

Yes. As a fanbase we've spent years discussing where to play him and how to unlock his talent. It seems he's such a specialised player that also wants to do a specific thing that he is going to limit the tactical flexibility of the team. Add that to him constantly saying through his agent he wants out, I still don't understand why people are desperate to keep him. It's not saying he's a bad player, he's just not worth the headaches he has caused, and those wages could be spent on a player that adds more to the team.
 
DavelinaJolie said:
Yes. As a fanbase we've spent years discussing where to play him and how to unlock his talent. It seems he's such a specialised player that also wants to do a specific thing that he is going to limit the tactical flexibility of the team. Add that to him constantly saying through his agent he wants out, I still don't understand why people are desperate to keep him. It's not saying he's a bad player, he's just not worth the headaches he has caused, and those wages could be spent on a player that adds more to the team.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this. Undoubtly, Paul is very talented player, but he is keen to leave and we can find players who will be cheaper, are eager to play for United and contribute more to the team. We will lose on marketing side, but I am absolutely sure we will not suffer on the pitch if he leaves.
 
If Pogba leaves I wonder where he will rank in terms of United fan favourites during the Premier League era?

I would put him comfortably below most regular first team players pre Moyes, although he'd probably be ahead of most of our signings since then with a few exceptions, who I think the hardcore fans (particularly at Old Trafford) have enjoyed watching more:

Zlatan
Cavani
Martial
Mata
Shaw
Maguire
Bruno

Weirdly Schweinsteiger & Falcao were also loved by match going fans, but I think this was more linked to past glories and a desperation for them to do well in a United shirt.

Lukaku, Mkhitaryan also seemed fairly popular - probably would put them at a similar level in terms of fan fondness even though Pogba has had more better games and his greatest moments reached much higher levels.

All said, I don't think he will be remembered with loads of fondness when he eventually leaves which is a shame as the stage was set for him to be a club legend when he returned.
 
Seeing how quite obviously Pogba splits the fanbase and even plenty of those who like him aren't too fussed to see him move on, its a bit of a silly question isn't it.
 
If we lose Pogba then we absolutely MUST sign a replacement midfielder. I'd argue ideally we would need two.

There is still an awful lot to happen this window and not a lot of time left. I hope it doesn't end up being another disappointing one?
 
Hughes35 said:
If we lose Pogba then we absolutely MUST sign a replacement midfielder. I'd argue ideally we would need two.

There is still an awful lot to happen this window and not a lot of time left. I hope it doesn't end up being another disappointing one?
Click to expand...

It's already shaping up to be one of the best in ages? The way we're going about things there's no way we don't buy at least one midfielder in my opinion.
 
Hughes35 said:
If we lose Pogba then we absolutely MUST sign a replacement midfielder. I'd argue ideally we would need two.

There is still an awful lot to happen this window and not a lot of time left. I hope it doesn't end up being another disappointing one?
Click to expand...
We would definitely need two. We are making good strides forward but losing Pogba (IMO at least) is a bigger loss than many make out here.

We definitely need an improved DM and if Pogba does go we need a midfielder who can progress the ball and play it forwards effectively. Otherwise you watch the pressure mount on Bruno's shoulders (regardless of the added creativity from Sancho.)
 
Hughes35 said:
If we lose Pogba then we absolutely MUST sign a replacement midfielder. I'd argue ideally we would need two.

There is still an awful lot to happen this window and not a lot of time left. I hope it doesn't end up being another disappointing one?
Click to expand...

Casemiro or Kante would be nice. :D
 
As recently as an hour ago the club still heavily advertised him ahead of the new season, clubs don't normally do that for a player who's potentially leaving. Strange
 
It's obvious he will not sign a contract.
He is not mad keen on going to PSG unless it is crazy money they are offering in wages and signing on bonuses.
United are therefore hoping that a good season will presuade him to stay.
We are still discussing after 5 years his best position, this tells all.
If we can, sell and move on.
 
sugar_kane said:
If Pogba leaves I wonder where he will rank in terms of United fan favourites during the Premier League era?

I would put him comfortably below most regular first team players pre Moyes, although he'd probably be ahead of most of our signings since then with a few exceptions, who I think the hardcore fans (particularly at Old Trafford) have enjoyed watching more:

Zlatan
Cavani
Martial
Mata
Shaw
Maguire
Bruno

Weirdly Schweinsteiger & Falcao were also loved by match going fans, but I think this was more linked to past glories and a desperation for them to do well in a United shirt.

Lukaku, Mkhitaryan also seemed fairly popular - probably would put them at a similar level in terms of fan fondness even though Pogba has had more better games and his greatest moments reached much higher levels.

All said, I don't think he will be remembered with loads of fondness when he eventually leaves which is a shame as the stage was set for him to be a club legend when he returned.
Click to expand...
He will come to symbolise a time when the clubs transfer strategy was lead more by marketing clout than footballing instincts and tactics. At the time we bought him the club was looking for big names in world football to arrest the decline of the club. Some, Like Zlatan, played hard, worked hard and earned their corn.

Pogba had the chance to grow into whatever type of player he wanted. It's just unfortunate that in Deschamps and the Translator he had 2 terrible managers who did not develop him, but either indulged or used him to create drama. However under Ole he hasn't made any progress, unlike other players.

In the long run he will largely be forgotten as a Manchester United Player, seen as an irrelevance in the grander scheme of things, as he has never seemed to truly put others or the team before himself. He'll probably be missed more by the players than the fans.
 
sugar_kane said:
If Pogba leaves I wonder where he will rank in terms of United fan favourites during the Premier League era?

I would put him comfortably below most regular first team players pre Moyes, although he'd probably be ahead of most of our signings since then with a few exceptions, who I think the hardcore fans (particularly at Old Trafford) have enjoyed watching more:

Zlatan
Cavani
Martial
Mata
Shaw
Maguire
Bruno

Weirdly Schweinsteiger & Falcao were also loved by match going fans, but I think this was more linked to past glories and a desperation for them to do well in a United shirt.

Lukaku, Mkhitaryan also seemed fairly popular - probably would put them at a similar level in terms of fan fondness even though Pogba has had more better games and his greatest moments reached much higher levels.

All said, I don't think he will be remembered with loads of fondness when he eventually leaves which is a shame as the stage was set for him to be a club legend when he returned.
Click to expand...

He'll be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Veron, for better or worse

No player post Fergie has done anything on the pitch to warrant a all time fan favourite tag imo
 
Judas said:
Seeing how quite obviously Pogba splits the fanbase and even plenty of those who like him aren't too fussed to see him move on, its a bit of a silly question isn't it.
Click to expand...
This window has potential to be best in ages. Rw, world class defender, attacking right full back. But if we lose Paul then our central midfield becomes midtable at best. We just can't afford to lose Pogba (despite all the talks how good/bad he was for us). He is top and unique midfielder.

My opinion is that Pogba is not Bruno/Modric type of player; someone who makes team better on his own. Pogba is type of player who plays the best when he is in top squad. He is lets say cherry on top.
And now our squad will be great next season so he will be too.

Yeah, if we lose him i will be (football wise) devastated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.