Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”

[choccy77]

I hate to be THAT guy, but Bruno has been largely irrelevant for us for a period of time now. Masked by a penalty here and there.
Is that all it would take for you lot to say Pogba has been great? A penalty here and there?

Dude, the guy has literally played none stop for us since joining.

A lot of that is because Pogba has been either injured or just ineffective so we have relied on him so much.

 

[Pavl3n]

he's gone

I'm more inclined to believe that Ole's trying to convince him to stay. A little like the comments he made re Cavani after rumours of Edinson being ready to go to Boca surfaced.

 

[peridigm]

Imagine if we let him go on a free again

Imagine if we give him a huge contract and ridiculous wages and he continues to be hot/cold.

 

[BFernandes]

Imagine if we give him a huge contract and ridiculous wages and he continues to be hot/cold/cold/cold/hot/cold/cold/cold/cold/hot/cold/cold

Fixed.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Pogba isn't important to our first team.

Minutes with and without him in the league last season:

	Minutes	GF	GA	minutes per GF	minutes per GA
With Pogba	1897	35	26	54.2	73
Without Pogba	1523	38	18	40	84.6

McFred helps Shaw/AWB to push higher up the flanks, and give Bruno more freedom to get in and around the box.

Pogba gives you more individualistic gif-worthy moments. But Manchester United are a better team without him.

Stats don't always show the big picture...

When you put it that way.....

With Fred starting
Played: 47
Won: 27
Drawn: 10
Lost: 10

Goals per game: 1.82
Goals against per game: 0.85

Points per game: 1.93
Win rate: 57.4%
Loss rate: 21.3%

Without Fred starting
Played: 26
Won: 13
Drawn: 7
Lost: 6

Goals per game: 1.96
Goals against per game: 1.07

Points per game: 1.76
Win rate: 50%
Loss rate: 23.1%

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...s-record-with-and-without-fred-since-2019-20/

 

[Dante]

Stats don't always show the big picture...

When you put it that way.....

With Fred starting
Played: 47
Won: 27
Drawn: 10
Lost: 10

Goals per game: 1.82
Goals against per game: 0.85

Points per game: 1.93
Win rate: 57.4%
Loss rate: 21.3%

Without Fred starting
Played: 26
Won: 13
Drawn: 7
Lost: 6

Goals per game: 1.96
Goals against per game: 1.07

Points per game: 1.76
Win rate: 50%
Loss rate: 23.1%

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...s-record-with-and-without-fred-since-2019-20/

Your stats gloss over the detail because there'll be games when Fred has played a part but not a significant amount. And if he's come on for 1 minute at the end of a match, that will count one way or another for whatever argument you want to push.

Mine specifically talk about the minutes when Pogba is and isn't on the pitch. The numbers are laid bare.

 

[roseguy64]

He's gone for sure. One of those comments where it doesn't really matter what Ole said, but what he didn't say. There is no mention about him staying.

He's not in the details of how much we're getting for Pogba.

See the full quotes here.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

See the full quotes here.

Even the full quotes does not seem very convincing. Ole says at the end "Need to see what happens". This is not very encouraging, normally before selling players he is always saying part of the plans or will prove his doubters wrong, or like a new signing etc.

I am disappointed at Pogba, seeing as we have already signed Sancho and reportedly close to signing Varane, this is one time where, I feel we have a proper team with world class players all over the pitch. In fact we would have the best Defence in the league and closer to best attack with Cavani, Sancho, Pogba/Rashford and Bruno in the front four.

Although our midfield is weak compared to others, but if we can hold on and then quickly hit them with the players we have, I don't think i would be scared against any side with the quality we will have now, so to leave at this time, It would be anti-climatic of Pogba, because if we keep Pogba, we would be serious challengers for every competition we enter into.

 

[Juanuzayne]

Your stats gloss over the detail because there'll be games when Fred has played a part but not a significant amount. And if he's come on for 1 minute at the end of a match, that will count one way or another for whatever argument you want to push.

Mine specifically talk about the minutes when Pogba is and isn't on the pitch. The numbers are laid bare.

Frankly, all of these stats are pointless. Neither factors in difficulty of opposition. Pogba could be in for games against elite teams, hence the win rate being lower. He could be on the bench against relegation level teams and our win rate would still be reasonably high against those teams.

 

[Dante]

Frankly, all of these stats are pointless. Neither factors in difficulty of opposition. Pogba could be in for games against elite teams, hence the win rate being lower. He could be on the bench against relegation level teams and our win rate would still be reasonably high against those teams.

McFred played more often against the top 6 teams. Ole got scared off Pogba and Matic in midfield after we lost 6-1 to Tottenham.

 

[crossy1686]

There is no way at the end of July the club and Pogba still don't know what's going to happen this season regarding his contract. Everyone's acting coy which suggests he's looking for a new club

 

[SATA]

Do we think he will be still at the club for the first league game against Leeds and starting in it? Or his arse will already be in Paris and we have his replacement by then?

 

[crossy1686]

Do we think he will be still at the club for the first league game against Leeds and starting in it? Or his arse will already be in Paris and we have his replacement by then?

Hopefully the latter

 

[edcunited1878]

Pogba was "shoehorned" into playing CM with McTominay in a cup final because Fred was injured and could not start. The club wants him to stay, but he's also not the end all, be all for this team to take the next step.

It takes an entire squad and unless you're a Cristiano, Messi, Neymar, etc....you can't be a passenger....especially if you're part of a central midfield two with two CBs behind you.

During big games throughout the 2nd half of the season, Pogba was inserted on the left wing/forward to accommodate McTominay and Fred...that pairing is the best functioning midfield, even if Pogba has more talent than those two combined.

 

[croadyman]

Convinced its now becoming a case of

Pogba leaves - target a DLP type player like Saul/Neves

Pogba stays - target a DM like Rice/Ndidi

 

[meamth]

Convinced its now becoming a case of

Pogba leaves - target a DLP type player like Saul/Neves

Pogba stays - target a DM like Rice/Ndidi

Saul is not a DLP.

 

[croadyman]

Saul is not a DLP.

I didn't think so either but not sure what else to put him under

 

[meamth]

I didn't think so either but not sure what else to put him under

he was supposed to be like Modric type, but lately he has been woeful. Losing the ball easily and physically weak.

 

[Highfather_24]

During big games throughout the 2nd half of the season, Pogba was inserted on the left wing/forward to accommodate McTominay and Fred...that pairing is the best functioning midfield, even if Pogba has more talent than those two combined.

Weird take.

Not all midfielders are great at defending, doesnt make them a passenger. Its not about talent either. Would you say "McFred is a more balanced midfield, although Juan Mata has more talent than those two combined". Its not a question of talent, its a question of position. You shouldnt play an attacking midfielder in a midfield 2. You cannot play players like Grealish, Isco, Pogba, Bruno in a midfield 2 and then be surprised that its not working. And that natural CMs like McT and Fred, give the team more balance.

Its not a question of workrate or effort, its just a square peg/round hole situation.

 

[Giggsy13]

Neves is an under the radar signing that could have a massive impact for us. A specialist DM with more passing range than McFred. If we’re moving to a 4-3-3 then a Bruno, Neves and VDB midfield would function very well.

 

[Borys]

Stats don't always show the big picture...

When you put it that way.....

With Fred starting
Played: 47
Won: 27
Drawn: 10
Lost: 10

Goals per game: 1.82
Goals against per game: 0.85

Points per game: 1.93
Win rate: 57.4%
Loss rate: 21.3%

Without Fred starting
Played: 26
Won: 13
Drawn: 7
Lost: 6

Goals per game: 1.96
Goals against per game: 1.07

Points per game: 1.76
Win rate: 50%
Loss rate: 23.1%

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...s-record-with-and-without-fred-since-2019-20/

What's your point? Are you surprised with those stats?

Frankly, all of these stats are pointless. Neither factors in difficulty of opposition. Pogba could be in for games against elite teams, hence the win rate being lower. He could be on the bench against relegation level teams and our win rate would still be reasonably high against those teams.

You are right, it's important to take that into account. It's looks even worse for Pogba if you consider McFred were first choice midfielder against the big sides.

 

[Highfather_24]

If we’re moving a 4-3-3

Seems like media BS. We played 4-2-3-1 in the 2 pre-season games. Our whole academy setup plays 4-2-3-1. Just doesnt seem likely.

 

[Eplel]

Neves is an under the radar signing that could have a massive impact for us. A specialist DM with more passing range than McFred. If we’re moving to a 4-3-3 then a Bruno, Neves and VDB midfield would function very well.

Agree 100%. At £30M Neves is a steal.

 

[Juanuzayne]

McFred played more often against the top 6 teams. Ole got scared off Pogba and Matic in midfield after we lost 6-1 to Tottenham.

What's your point? Are you surprised with those stats?

You are right, it's important to take that into account. It's looks even worse for Pogba if you consider McFred were first choice midfielder against the big sides.

What are you on about? In the league last year, Pogba played:

Spurs - full 90 mins both times
Arsenal - full 90 mins both times
Liverpool - full 90 mins both times
Man City - full 90 mins once, and out with hamstring injury for second match
Chelsea - subbed in at 60 min mark, out with hamstring injury the second match.

 

[SinNombre]

Paris Saint-Germain fans demonstrate against a hypothetical arrival of Paul Pogba , with the display of a banner in the vicinity of the stadium: "Pogba, listen to your mother, she does not want you here, neither do we" wrote the followers of the Parisian club.

No one really wants Pogba.

Zidane wanted him but Flo didn't.

Barca have never shown interest.

Only Juve does but does he want to go back to what is now a tier-2 league.

 

[Gasolin]

Seems like media BS. We played 4-2-3-1 in the 2 pre-season games. Our whole academy setup plays 4-2-3-1. Just doesnt seem likely.

We have to wait to see if the addition of Varane could allow us to play with a defensive midfielder who's less worried about protecting the backline, and if that could allow us to switch to a more offensive setup in the middle of the park for 2 of our midfielders. So no definitive answer for me until I see how Varane fares in with Maguire, should the first one come.

 

[clarkydaz]

Paris Saint-Germain fans demonstrate against a hypothetical arrival of Paul Pogba , with the display of a banner in the vicinity of the stadium: "Pogba, listen to your mother, she does not want you here, neither do we" wrote the followers of the Parisian club.

No one really wants Pogba.

Zidane wanted him but Flo didn't.

Barca have never shown interest.

Only Juve does but does he want to go back to what is now a tier-2 league.

What's the mother issue about?

 

[hellhunter]

What's the mother issue about?

Pogba's parents being Marseille fans. Couple of years ago he said he'd never join Paris for that reason.

 

[Isotope]

Kinda in two mind about selling Pogba. Whether we like him or not, he's a world class player that is better to have. I'm not sure we can get a better midfielder with his 50m (rumor) transfer fee.

So if he's here, and we sign Sancho and Varane. Even if it cost 50m, but him being here can push us to trophies this year, it is well worth it.

Yeh, it's basically another "this is our YEAR" post.

 

[RuudTom83]

If Paul's future isn't sorted before the season starts it has the potential to derail the club...if he stays or goes, I'm not fussed, but ideally Ole should sort it before the season starts.

Last season United got off to a slow start and with Rashford(?) missing already plus lots of players only finished their season a few weeks ago, it could be a real messy start come August.

 

[GazTheLegend]

If Paul's future isn't sorted before the season starts it has the potential to derail the club...if he stays or goes, I'm not fussed, but ideally Ole should sort it before the season starts.

Last season United got off to a slow start and with Rashford(?) missing already plus lots of players only finished their season a few weeks ago, it could be a real messy start come August.

Yup. We don't want the Raiola circus before any/all of our big games. Remember before Leverkusen, that cnut piping up about Pogba? We need him either with us COMPLETELY or out. I'd prefer with personally but either way prefer it sorted this summer.

 

[choccy77]

What are you on about? In the league last year, Pogba played:

Spurs - full 90 mins both times
Arsenal - full 90 mins both times
Liverpool - full 90 mins both times
Man City - full 90 mins once, and out with hamstring injury for second match
Chelsea - subbed in at 60 min mark, out with hamstring injury the second match.

Clearly we are under paying him.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Hasn’t shown enough to warrant trying to hold onto him if he doesn’t want to be here. Cash in and get an adequate replacement to give more balance to a squad that’s shaping up nicely.

 

[Borys]

What are you on about? In the league last year, Pogba played:

Spurs - full 90 mins both times
Arsenal - full 90 mins both times
Liverpool - full 90 mins both times
Man City - full 90 mins once, and out with hamstring injury for second match
Chelsea - subbed in at 60 min mark, out with hamstring injury the second match.

McTominay&Fred started:
1 game vs Spurs (the one we've won)
both games vs Arsenal
both games vs Liverpool
both games vs City
both games vs Chelsea

Compared to McFred:
Pogba missed both games vs Southampton (2 wins, including 9-0), 6-2 win vs Leeds, didn't start in 3-1 win vs Everton (10' cameo), played 36' in unlucky 2-2 draw vs Leicester (McFred started). So you can't say he played against stronger opponents, at least compared to his direct midfield rivals.

 

[Highfather_24]

We have to wait to see if the addition of Varane could allow us to play with a defensive midfielder who's less worried about protecting the backline, and if that could allow us to switch to a more offensive setup in the middle of the park for 2 of our midfielders. So no definitive answer for me until I see how Varane fares in with Maguire, should the first one come.

If the presence of one defender means we have to switch our whole formation, that's alarming tbh. And very unstable.

 

[Juanuzayne]

Frankly, all of these stats are pointless. Neither factors in difficulty of opposition. Pogba could be in for games against elite teams, hence the win rate being lower. He could be on the bench against relegation level teams and our win rate would still be reasonably high against those teams.

McTominay&Fred started:
1 game vs Spurs (the one we've won)
both games vs Arsenal
both games vs Liverpool
both games vs City
both games vs Chelsea

Compared to McFred:
Pogba missed both games vs Southampton (2 wins, including 9-0), 6-2 win vs Leeds, didn't start in 3-1 win vs Everton (10' cameo), played 36' in unlucky 2-2 draw vs Leicester (McFred started). So you can't say he played against stronger opponents, at least compared to his direct midfield rivals.

Mentioning the likes of Southampton, Leeds, Everton, you essentially made my point which is bolded in my quoted post. Plus he’s never really directly competed with Mctominay for a spot. His direct competition is Fred or Rashford I would say.

Let me be clear, I understand that Pogba isn’t the ideal midfielder for us. He’s never exactly fit in. But the moments of brilliance and how he can carry the team at times is far more important than anything Fred or Mctominay will ever do for us. Selling him for a mere 50 million euro would be a disaster. We are better off letting him go for free next year and get the most out of our squad this year with Sancho and Varane improving the squad immensely. If Pogba leaves, it’s like taking 2 steps forward but a massive one backwards. There are no good midfielders I can think of that we’d be able to replace him with for 50 mil.

 

[Rossa]

If the presence of one defender means we have to switch our whole formation, that's alarming tbh. And very unstable.

Not necessarily. Ferguson had to adapt when Rio lost his pace, not just for Rio, but for the entire team. Klopp could play different football when Van Dike came. Ederson makes it possible to play from the back that only he can facilitate. Individuals can make the team tick and even alter the entire style of a team.

 

[Stacks]

Neves is an under the radar signing that could have a massive impact for us. A specialist DM with more passing range than McFred. If we’re moving to a 4-3-3 then a Bruno, Neves and VDB midfield would function very well.

He has some Carrick like tendencies. Very high on long passes and interceptions. Not bad on the stats side of things. Could be more suited in the DM role than any of our current guys. Possible that playing in the championship toughened him up

https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=QuOUJ0grvWuKlJoKtYRDj

 

[MattofManchester]

Selling him for a mere 50 million euro would be a disaster. We are better off letting him go for free next year and get the most out of our squad this year with Sancho and Varane improving the squad immensely.

Not really sure how you've managed to come to this conclusion.

 

[choccy77]

Not really sure how you've managed to come to this conclusion.

Exactly, given how limited his key performances / moments are i'd take the £50m and put it towards a player that can make the squad better and help us win trophies year on year.