I haven't seen eye to eye with mancan92 on this thread, but I think accusing him/her(or really any other participant in this thread) of hatred and agendas is uncalled for. Just because I don't completely with mancan92 on this, I'm not going to question his/her motives. We just don't see one particular issue in the same way, and I think for the most part, our discussion has been respectful.
Paul Pogba racially abused on social media
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Someone else has said it but I think Gary Nevilles silence is deafening with regards to responding to this situation. I'm not implying he's racist but he's clearly far too stubborn and proud to come out and make a stand against the comments. He clearly has very personal issues with Pogba and it seems that he's fine with seeing him abused and racially abused.
Within hours of Neville publicly performing another character assassination of Pogba he's received racial abuse. It's not impossible that some of those responsible were fuelled by the criticism Gary Neville provided. It really isn't and if that were me rightly or wrongly I would feel in some way responsible and would make some kind of stand against racism.
Within hours of Neville publicly performing another character assassination of Pogba he's received racial abuse. It's not impossible that some of those responsible were fuelled by the criticism Gary Neville provided. It really isn't and if that were me rightly or wrongly I would feel in some way responsible and would make some kind of stand against racism.
He's not come out and condemned Hitler either, maybe you can imply he's a holocaust denier too. Is there anything at this point that won't be twisted into Neville having somehow done wrong?
Every single person with a Twitter account who has not condemned these Pogba tweets publicly in the 48 hours since they occurred, is "fine" with their content? That seems a bit of a stretch, I mean, maybe he's just a bit busy? Has better things to do than shout down trolls on Twitter, perhaps?
I get the feeling he genuinely cares about United and wants to win things here but perhaps feels that the club doesn't share his ambition.
Between him and Raiola, they could have forced a move to either Real or Barca if that's what he truly wanted. That gives me hope that he's at least prepared to give it another season here to see if things improve.
I feel the same simply because he couldn't stop talking about United when he left. He was barely talking about other clubs unless someone brought them in the conversation, like with Zidane and Real Madrid. I think that in his mind it's United and Juventus. I was a lot more worried when Juventus rumours started.
A post that needs quoting for visibility.
I've been a member of this forum for a few short months and whenever people go against the grain they are automatically name called/vilified and their point is often ignored/disregarded in some playground cool kids type manner.
@mancan92 is a black person living in Britain attempting to share their views on a subject of race that happens to have happened at an institution close to everyone's heart here and he's being accused of having an agenda and having his argument undermined at each post - a select group of posters have attempted to turn this thread into something no one has claimed it is.
I'm more worried about a number of Caf'tards views on race than I am Neville's at this point.
Some really good points in this post.
Slander isn't helpful or productive here and I think discussing the treatment of Pogba by the press has come at the cost of attaching Neville's name to this situation.
Like most things in life 2 people can see the same thing & see something different. @mancan92 made some rather hurried replies last night which he has since spent his time in here attempting to explain but people keep asking for direct quotes as if racial biases only occur in direct communications.
Neville operates as a mouthpiece for Sky, and when talking about Pogba he will often overstate and labour on the negatives, this does not make him a racist by any stretch but [I believe] given he is often seen as balanced in his assessments of the game I believe he has biases [not necessarily racial] that cloud any fair critique of the player. His impassioned tirades unsettle an already agitated fanbase and some people will manifest that into racial slurs, others will not.
I have stated Neville above but honestly believe this is an issue from the 'media' as a whole.
If it was me, and given what I said only a couple of hours before the abuse, I personally would feel like I may have been responsible, I'd certainly feel like clarifying my position. That you don't like Pogba doesn't change that.
If it was me, I'd make a stance and I think Nevilles silence does not look good for him at all. He may not be racist but he certainly has no issue whatsoever with any abuse Pogba has received since his ranting.
I'm not sure what he had to do with Hitler ?
Disgusting, but I'm not any bit surprised. Racism is ingrained in western society and it was only a matter of time before it raised its ugly head again.
I abhor any kind of unjustified prejudice and it’s sad that as members of the human race some feel the need to resort to this form of aggressive behaviour. I think it would be wrong to associate this sort behaviour with mindless tomfoolery because in this day and age everybody knows that it’s both wrong and unacceptable.
People who use social media for these purposes become culpable by definition and the real sadness is that the system which permits this sort of abuse appears to be unable to control it or punish the wrongdoers.
The problem therefore is the age old adage regarding the treating of symptoms instead of eliminating the cause. The only hope of success lies surely with the social media companies making it impossible for users to remain unidentifiable and therefore prone to punishment. The law of the land is hamstrung unless the culprits are found.
I sometimes wish that the media in particular would get the somewhat misunderstood definition of colour and ethnic prejudice correct.
People who use social media for these purposes become culpable by definition and the real sadness is that the system which permits this sort of abuse appears to be unable to control it or punish the wrongdoers.
The problem therefore is the age old adage regarding the treating of symptoms instead of eliminating the cause. The only hope of success lies surely with the social media companies making it impossible for users to remain unidentifiable and therefore prone to punishment. The law of the land is hamstrung unless the culprits are found.
I sometimes wish that the media in particular would get the somewhat misunderstood definition of colour and ethnic prejudice correct.
So many good points.
Good post
Reading some ‘freedom of the internet’ stuff here - sorry but the freedom has been abused leading to young people being racially abused on a reoccurring basis. I’m a boxing fan and I read an article in boxing news recently where a female correspondent showed a journalist her blocked words on Instagram and they were all to do with violence/sexual violence/misogyny-point I’m trying to make is that we have a means of enabling extreme abuse but no way to fight it. This isn’t a discussion of ideals or a conversation, it’s just one way vitriol and unless you can identify the person culpable(very unlikely) you will get away with it. The likes of twitter need some form of regulation but no one is brave enough to take them on. It’s almost like getting publicly listed was a ploy to protect them from being shut down...
The stupidity of this analogy. I’m sure Neville, while not racist, has the intelligence to know cause and effect. I’ve heard G Neville go over the top on another player, De Gea in his first or second season but even then it was over the top about a mistake and critical of the player’s ability to be Man Utd number 1. Hugely over the top reaction, but never once did he attack the player’s character. Never once did he say “you silly donut stealing boy” or take it along those lines.
So yeah. If Neville has a problem with Pogba on a personal level he should keep it to himself and not use his platform on sky to spread it.
I'm not sure what he had to do with racists on Twitter?
So he didn't do what you would do and this means it's ok for you to say that he has no issue with any abuse Pogba received? Look a guy got some horrible things said to him on Twitter, it doesn't require the entire world to stop and everyone to condemn it. Everyone knows it's wrong, it shouldn't need condemning. It's a huge leap from not Tweeting to being ok with someone being racially abused.
What did he say exactly that would cause this guilt? He talked about an incident in a football match. Get a grip of yourself for fecksake. You're implying someone is ok with hate crimes because he didn't Tweet something that you would have Tweeted. How can you not see that that's an insane leap? He's in no way shape or form responsible for the behaviour of bigots.
If he has a problem with Pogba on a personal level then maybe he should keep it to himself, but he was discussing him as a footballer as he is paid to do.
Exactly that....some don't want to acknowledge that because of their own dislike of Pogba.
It's not impossible his rant enraged and emboldened these Twitter trolls, I'd say it's fairly possible, perhaps not.
Every headline around Pogba was also around Neville and his comments on Tuesday which were over the top.
It's perfectly fine for you to feel differently especially given the context of the individual, but for me given the context....I'm a public figure, I'd made these comments. They were picked up everywhere and within hours the subject of my comments receives racist abuse, now I wouldn't feel like a racist and I wouldn't feel like I'd made racist comments but I would feel some burden and some regret on reflection....I'd question if perhaps I'd gone a bit far making things personal, I'd certainly use my platform on twitter myself, not to retweet ticket sales for Salford, but to make a stand against racism, at the very least, as others have done and as I have done in the past.
Always baffles me how you have to explain basic concepts on here, are people on here brand new? Or are the just trying to be clever? I fail to believe that anyone can't see the connection between Neville and Pogba and the lack of connection between Neville and Hitler.
Pathetic attempts to try and discredit an opinion rather than discuss the specifics because of course you may disagree and you may dislike the subject, but that doesn't invalidate the point.
Such a dumb post
At last Godwin's Law rears it's head
Character assassination.
FFS, just seen this!
Are you for real? The kind of vitriolic garbage spouted by those with a victim mentality
“I was thinking typical you you selfish... “ that’s a judgment about the person not football.
No it's not impossible. That however doesn't explain you taking several leaps between him not liking what he saw on a football pitch, not doing what you would do and him being perfectly fine with someone being racially abused. You're accusing a man of something based on him NOT saying something. The Hitler reference is taking your own leaps in logic to their extreme conclusion if you keep going the way you are.
"This is what I'd do. He didn't do it. He must be fine with racial abuse then."
It's a judgement about a players behaviour on a football pitch which he's paid to do. He was annoyed at someone taking a penalty away from someone else and missing it, he overreacted and then had to backtrack like a fool when he got more details. Big deal.
I guess it does..Hitler died like 70 years ago, Gary was lambasting Pogba only on Monday! Like for example, when Trump talks shit about Mexicans, you don't think that increases tension in America!? And gives racists more ammunition ?
That's what Trump wants. Gary Neville was talking about football and the poster I quoted somehow jumped from there to Neville not Tweeting to Neville being fine with the abuse Pogba got. It's an absurd accusation to level at the man and I gave him another absurd leap in logic back. If we are going down the route of accusing someone of something based on them not Tweeting why stop there? Everything they didn't say is open for attack.
Hitler died like 70 years ago, Gary was lambasting Pogba only on Monday! Like for example, when Trump talks shit about Mexicans, you don't think that increases tension in America!? And gives racists more ammunition ?
Atrocity of a post. You really have to bring Hitler and the holocaust into this? Have you no shame? If the complexities of an issue like this are lost on you, maybe you should take a break. Seriously, topics like this seriously do bring 'em out.
Exactly.. someone trying to be (insert whatever comes to mind). And doesn’t even realise that whether intentionally or accidentally hate against an individual or group starts in the same way. Always subtle, always by people with a platform setting one person/group aside for extra special criticism from the rest.
End of last season when a few fans called out Pogba and had the argument with him (not saying it was racism) but reason they picked him and not Young, Jones, or real deadwood is clearly to do with the influence that the media and pundits have.
[QUOTE="momo83, post: 24599273, member: 82541]
End of last season when a few fans called out Pogba and had the argument with him (not saying it was racism) but reason they picked him and not Young, Jones, or real deadwood is clearly to do with the influence that the media and pundits have.[/QUOTE]
To be fair he was standing there preening like a peacock after a terrible season and horrendous end to the season where he was as bad as anyone from that PSG game onwards (which he played no part in a part from getting stupidly sent off in the first leg). Don’t recall any other player doing that on the lap of dishonour.
End of last season when a few fans called out Pogba and had the argument with him (not saying it was racism) but reason they picked him and not Young, Jones, or real deadwood is clearly to do with the influence that the media and pundits have.[/QUOTE]
To be fair he was standing there preening like a peacock after a terrible season and horrendous end to the season where he was as bad as anyone from that PSG game onwards (which he played no part in a part from getting stupidly sent off in the first leg). Don’t recall any other player doing that on the lap of dishonour.
To be fair he was standing there preening like a peacock after a terrible season and horrendous end to the season where he was as bad as anyone from that PSG game onwards (which he played no part in a part from getting stupidly sent off in the first leg). Don’t recall any other player doing that on the lap of dishonour.[/QUOTE]
This is what people mean when they talk about the scrutiny on Pogba, what do you mean he was preening? He was applauding the fans, of he’d gone straight down the tunnel then he’d have been attacked for being arrogant. And this is where people start to notice the undertones when talking about Pogba, little micro aggressions like lazy, thick, arrogant etc are constantly used where they wouldn’t for others. It’s a character assassination.
That’s not how it looked to me, once the fans started it felt like he was goading them.
Honestly think a lot of people are just insecure by confident people being confident and staying confident under stressful situations.
He was topless after a match. That’s normal. He was waving at the fans before the abuse. Then the abuse started and his demeanour did not get shaken, he made a sign which is not aggressive, or arrogant, or provocative it’s peaceful but at the same time he continued stand stall, confident, and with the belief that he always does. That’s a sign of real strength, confidence, and leadership.
You got Harry Kane who started to cry when the FA made banter about him stealing a goal. Then you have Pogba standing tall during abuse and handling it well. Yet it’s Pogba whose judged negatively.
Headline if Pogba ever has to fight off armed carjackers “Selfish Pogba uses carjacking attempt to show off kickboxing skills; injures 3 innocent knife wielding attackers”
So you acknowledge that the fan started it? I thought you said it was because he was preening around? And to be honest I thought he reacted as well as he could, I’m sure if he’d just walked away then his critics would have said he thought he was too good to be criticised. He can’t win
The whole reason he was shirtless in the first place was that he had just given his shirt to a young fan moments earlier before that ugly exchange yet he even got slated for that
Think he would have looked better just walking off and ignoring it than engaging them but that’s just me it seems.
Sorry, I still don’t understand, you said he started it because he was preening before? Can you now see how ridiculous that statement looks? The abuse was vile and you tried to blame it on him, that’s really poor.
From the video I saw he was preening it, they were shouting. I would expect a superstar footballer to be the bigger man.
Preening what exactly? Sounds like cooking terminology