Clear to you no but to most people yes. Read the thread that was generated afterwards. Who is the name most discussed in that thread, its Pogba. Read between the lines, pundits dont have to explicitly name who theyre talking about in order for us to know. Gary Neville is wily and savy enough to know that. The face of Nevilles criticism there regarding social media is obviously Pogba. So no, he didnt directly call Pogba rotten, but he definitely at the very least alluded to it.
Paul Pogba racially abused on social media
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Clear to you no but to most people yes. Read the thread that was generated afterwards. Who is the name most discussed in that thread, its Pogba. Read between the lines, pundits dont have to explicitly name who theyre talking about in order for us to know. Gary Neville is wily and savy enough to know that. The face of Nevilles criticism there regarding social media is obviously Pogba. So no, he didnt directly call Pogba rotten, but he definitely at the very least alluded to it.
Looking at that interview and what's happened since....Ole has worked on fitness over the summer and the same players now are outrunning teams. Players look like they are playing for the club.
All the evidence suggests the issues were down to Jose not working on fitness and having no interest in us outrunning teams. Ole came in and upped the work rate and the players collapsed with injuries after two months.
Neville is far too quick to put all the blame on players and to get extremely personal with them whilst protecting managers. For him to say he wouldn't have sacked David Moyes just removes all credibility
All the evidence suggests the issues were down to Jose not working on fitness and having no interest in us outrunning teams. Ole came in and upped the work rate and the players collapsed with injuries after two months.
Neville is far too quick to put all the blame on players and to get extremely personal with them whilst protecting managers. For him to say he wouldn't have sacked David Moyes just removes all credibility
Clearly Gary Neville gets too personally involved when he is a pundit. Even his supporters like me - love the man and his brother, love what they did for United, love their passion and commitment - wish he would take a deep breath and count to 10 before accusing a present United player of 'treachery'. For me Paul was into the game in the best way possible and his demand to take the penalty was because of that.
However, it seems to me that a lot of the racial abuse coming via social media can be likened to the hooligan phenomenon which plagued English football in the 1970s and 1980s. Honest hooligans admitted that their purpose was to engage in running battles with opposition fans - not to follow football - and much of the violence was actually pre-meditated and pre-agreed. The 'firms' would be in contact and then fight it out at planned locations whether in the stadium or outside it.
I don't doubt Manchester United along with every football or other sporting club on the planet has its share of racist fans. Sadly. However, the social media racism seems very similar in the way it operates to the hooliganism of bygone decades. Less about supporters of United and any club for that matter and more racists pushing their agenda and using football to do it just like violent youth/older men used football as their battlegrounds in the hooliganism heyday.
However, it seems to me that a lot of the racial abuse coming via social media can be likened to the hooligan phenomenon which plagued English football in the 1970s and 1980s. Honest hooligans admitted that their purpose was to engage in running battles with opposition fans - not to follow football - and much of the violence was actually pre-meditated and pre-agreed. The 'firms' would be in contact and then fight it out at planned locations whether in the stadium or outside it.
I don't doubt Manchester United along with every football or other sporting club on the planet has its share of racist fans. Sadly. However, the social media racism seems very similar in the way it operates to the hooliganism of bygone decades. Less about supporters of United and any club for that matter and more racists pushing their agenda and using football to do it just like violent youth/older men used football as their battlegrounds in the hooliganism heyday.
Or perhaps you’re just inferring what you wish to infer in order to bolster your narrative? I know it’s ‘outrageous’ to suggest such a thing, but it needs to be said.
I’ve stated on hear that as a player I want him out, never liked him but and it’s a BIG BUT, I really do think that idiots who racially abuse him need to be found and have the full weight of the law thrown at them. They are pathetic uneducated idiots who are cowards and football authorities need to root these people out of the game.
No place for it, and they wouldn’t dare say it to his face would they?
No place for it, and they wouldn’t dare say it to his face would they?
I’d like Pogba to call the media out directly for their treatment of him. The exact same thing was happening to Raheem Sterling for years, this irrational dislike, and it wasn’t until he held up a mirror for them that they realised what they had been doing.
Interestingly, when Sterling called them out, there wasn’t really any media denial, nobody accused him of being ridiculous, they all quickly accepted that we have been racist towards this man and it needs to stop, immediately. After that, Sterling could do no wrong, he became man of the year, and copious amounts of arse kissing followed, including the England captaincy which he’d have never gotten before.
I’m not sure if the press would retreat as much given Pogba isn’t English, but on the whole, the man is a model professional, a genuine superstar and role model of the game who has never, ever been anywhere near any trouble off the field, never been accused of not training well, never even photographed in clubs etc, spends a lot of his time doing good community work and is a religious man with good moral compass by the looks of it. And then there’s the fact that he’s a brilliant footballer. From what I can see in this country is that he has been reduced/summarised as the ‘dancing black man’ and some sort of clown. The press never have a nice thing to say about him, barely even on a pure sporting level. Every praise he’s given as a player always seems to be backhanded. It’s ridiculous, and needs to stop.
Interestingly, when Sterling called them out, there wasn’t really any media denial, nobody accused him of being ridiculous, they all quickly accepted that we have been racist towards this man and it needs to stop, immediately. After that, Sterling could do no wrong, he became man of the year, and copious amounts of arse kissing followed, including the England captaincy which he’d have never gotten before.
I’m not sure if the press would retreat as much given Pogba isn’t English, but on the whole, the man is a model professional, a genuine superstar and role model of the game who has never, ever been anywhere near any trouble off the field, never been accused of not training well, never even photographed in clubs etc, spends a lot of his time doing good community work and is a religious man with good moral compass by the looks of it. And then there’s the fact that he’s a brilliant footballer. From what I can see in this country is that he has been reduced/summarised as the ‘dancing black man’ and some sort of clown. The press never have a nice thing to say about him, barely even on a pure sporting level. Every praise he’s given as a player always seems to be backhanded. It’s ridiculous, and needs to stop.
Thanks for addressing the part where you misquoted someone online to add fuel to this already burning pile of ****.
Maybe you believe if you keep repeating it like some kind of mantra it makes it true?
Again, one last time. Please show me the part (not what you think he said, or what you want to believe he said) where Neville calls Pogba rotten.
From that interview that you don't think I watched:
Sky host: ‘Well I think people would assume you’re talking about Paul Pogba but before the game today you said it wasn’t Pogba’.
Here's a couple of new mantras for you to try (and something that Neville has said directly about Pogba).
'I think he could be the player of the year'.
'He has the potential to be the best player in this league'.
Great post.
Great post. Totally agree on every aspect.
Problem as we have seen is that many people can’t read in between the lines or can but easily dismiss it as “inconclusive”
When Sterling called out the media he posted two identical stories about two footballers at similar stages in their careers and contrasted the different narratives. One negative, one positive. Only difference was race.
He didn’t use front page stories about him or talk about how pundits and media crucify him for England being crap. If he did, he would have been right, but his point would have so easily been drowned out by people just accusing him of being a crybaby.. that’s all they have to do.
As we see with this thread. Most of the denial doesn’t take rational or logical responses... it’s simple things like “ohh well Neville didn’t condemn the holocaust so supposed he thinks that’s alright” or “so Neville criticises a player at 10pm and he receives racial abuse at 10:30pm and you think that’s link... wooow what a leap”
I think one of the biggest issues is that the media probably don’t realise there is any hint of racism in what they are doing. It’s not always easy to put yourself in another person’s shoes and understand how your actions may make them feel.
You are right though, I do think if Pogba did call it out, it would be seen as inconclusive or something akin to Rafa’s rant. But the reality is that Pogba hasn’t ever done anything to anyone for the media to have such a problem with him to the extent that they seem to do. For a player who is as good as he is, who could walk into any team in the world, you would think he was not one of our better players listening to them. He draws more detraction than praise.
There are a number of subconscious examples throughout the media here. I’ve said on here before that I had an issue with some of their treatment of Balotelli too. I do accept that he didn’t always help himself though, but they took full advantage.
You look at Lewis Hamilton. Surpassed Schumacher, wins GP after GP in the name of Great Britain and to me, he is celebrated nowhere near enough by the British media. Like, he’s a genuine all time great, and if he were white, I feel he would get far more adulation. They don’t make a fuss over him as you think they would having the greatest driver in the world as ‘one of their own’. I don’t want to go on a massive tangent about Meghan Markle, but the parallels do reoccur often. Unfortunately, as you say, sometimes in the absence of using the ‘N-word’, we can all be oblivious that it’s happening. If Pogba leaves United, it will be a loss to not only the club, but to British football. He regularly does things no other midfielder here cannot, yet the narrative is constantly on whatever it is they decide he CANNOT do.
Oh so your being willfully ignorant. Cool.
It’s clear he’s talking about Pogba being one of the “rotten” one (unless you purposely ignore context clues)
Lastly, I never “quoted” Neville. Merely explained what he essentially said. This is a message board not a court of law
Gary Neville and co spending 20 minutes killing Pogba for the penalty that he created with his own brilliance, instead of talking about the pile of shite that other players served up is infuriating as it takes the spotlight away from where it really should be. Guys like Lingard need to thank their lucky stars that Pogba is there to take all attention away from them in the media. Zero goals or assists in I think 11 of the last 12 months for him - can you imagine the reaction of those stats were under Pogba's name?!
One final time.
Taken from the 'and called him "rotten" on live television’ post match interview.
Sky host:
‘Well I think people (that could be you in this case) would assume you’re talking about Paul Pogba but before the game today you (referring to Neville) said it wasn’t Pogba’.
Remember our little mantra?
Come on, let's do it together before I take the dog out for a walk.
'I think he could be the player of the year'. 'He has the potential to be the best player in this league’.
'I think he could be the player of the year'. 'He has the potential to be the best player in this league’.
Have a wonderful weekend and fingers crossed United can get the result against Palace.
With love from the ‘willfully ignorant’ one.
The fact he earlier in the show specifically states it isn't about Pogba is a bit of a problem for this hill that you've decided to die on, especially the 'wilfully ignorant' part.
It seems that Andy Cole has called out Gary Neville for calling Pogba treacherous. Cole said he is scratching his head as to what Neville means by treacherous? Pogba took a penalty after a discussion with Rashford and the keeper made a brilliant save. So what ? It does not look like Rashford had any issues with Pogba taking it Cole said. he also said that he does not agree with Gary Neville on this.
I think like Trump and his tweets that gets the far right in the open Gary Neville and his words on Pogba did have an effect on the racial abuse that Pogba has faced. People like Gary Neville should have responsibilities for their words and action and no matter of trying to weasel out of it can he avoid some responsibility on the racial abuse that Pogba is facing.
It is fair to say that he has can get a bit overcritical. But is it so hard to understand where he is coming from? We used to be a team where every man on the pitch would give his all and die on the pitch. People who slacked in effort would immediately be relegated to the bench. Only elite attitudes would do. Paul Pogba has not been the paragon of that attitude. Yes, he has been unfairly criticised at times for the wider perils of the team. But, if Paul Pogba is as good as people are making him out to be and worth that giant sum he was procured for, then he has to be more than just an above average player. He has to be more than just 'pretty good'. He has to be great. Pogba is not young anymore and to be fair to him, this season he looks focused from the get go. But, Neville's disappointment for Pogba is understandable considering Paul has not been as consistent as he should be. There are games where he looks World Class, then there are games where he looks average. When he's average, the argument becomes - "He doesn't have a team around him!"
You're right, laying into Pogba doesn't help anymore. But, Neville comes from a Golden Era, when this was the norm. If you are the heart of midfield at Manchester United, then you bloody well act and play like it.
Isn't it more likely that he is simply being racially abused because he missed a high-profile penalty, which cost his team points.
I mean, there's no great mystery here - he is the third player to be racially abused for missing a penalty, in the space of seven days.
Something obviously has to be done - these people need to be identified and punished, immediately. Twitter is just a cesspit at this point.
People are overblowing the 'treachery' angle.
If Ole had declared before the game that 'Rashford should take all the penalties', but Pogba forcefully took it instead, that's treachery by definition.
Neville intially thought that this may have been the case, hence his use of the word.
But Neville also said that he quickly realised it wasn't treachery because that's not what happened. He even went out of his way to show a clip from the Chelsea game to prove that it wasn't.
And as this Tweet shows:
... Neville has a perfectly reasonable opinion that on-the-pitch debates between penalty takers are 'not right'. Fergie felt the same.
Incidentally, check out some of the posts from page 66 onwards of the Matchday thread:
https://www.redcafe.net/matches/wolverhampton-wanderers-vs-manchester-united.285/discussion?page=66
Some of the opinions made in the heat of the moment are no different.
Perhaps Neville should think first before aiming at Pogba. ESPECIALLY as Rashford had already cleared it up literally 1 week before hand ON SKY.
He revealed he clearly thinks Pogba is a villain as that was his first reaction. He wouldn't have gone with that venom if it was Rashford and Lingard.
Pogba made himself a villain at the start of the Summer by claiming he wanted to try a new challenge.
He should have thought first.
At least Neville admitted he was wrong and took it back.
Thread should be renamed to the Gary Neville punditry thread
Top players don't like bumbling around in 6th place, I don't really blame him. He's obviously been told by the club to give us 1 more year and he's being perfectly professional, we can't criticize him for that.
It's up to the club to progress and show him it's worth staying.
What if he isn't being perfectly professional? How would we know? Can we try to figure it ourselves? Are we allowed to question his professionalism?
You've effectively brought up those questions yourself by linking them to his comments. They're a natural consequence.
Neville is allowed to ask those questions and draw answers based on the evidence he sees. When he sees new evidence (as he did when he showed the Chelsea clip), he's allowed to change his mind.
Just like Pogba is allowed to change his mind and decide to stay at the club for 12 extra months.
But Pogba's commitment to the club will be questioned forever more. It's what happens when you tell the world you're no longer commited to the club, even if you later decide to stay.
As long as those questions hang over his head, there are going to answers that bring up the attitude that he harboured only a few months ago. Those answers are no more or less 'obvious' than the opinion you offered in your first line.
Can't wait to hear the reception our fans will give him today.
You're making a bit too much sense for this thread.
I don't know how Twitter monitoring 50 top black players accounts is supposed to do anything. Isn't this stuff being reported to them anyway and they aren't doing a whole lot? "Don't worry we'll keep an eye on you for your own good."
Hopefully Pogba gets a good reception today and stops taking penalties because he's not very good at them.
Agree..
We know he has been professional because that is what everyone around the club players, staff etc have been saying about him. So it's far more of a stretch to say he isn't professional
It's up to Pogba to prove that, after choosing to say something that called his own professionalism into question.
He has a contract with Manchester United and yet openly talked about leaving.
If he can act that way once, it's a reasonable question to ask if he can do it again. Neville isn't taking massive leaps in logic to get to that point.
The point I'm making is that we shouldn't abuse Neville in the same internet mob-rule manner that Pogba was abused.
Bank holiday weekends tend to that
Agreed. On both counts.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/marcus-rashford-target-disgusting-racist-18998926
Rashford's turn now.
Something needs to be done, before racially abusing a black player because he missed a penalty becomes a running theme.
Rashford's turn now.
Something needs to be done, before racially abusing a black player because he missed a penalty becomes a running theme.
just saw Paul’s instagram post , what a powerful post. i resonate with him on the thoughts for our future generations or for that matter the current one that it should never be “us” against them. more power to him on the humane side, performance wise many things could be debated. more power to him.
Last edited by a moderator:
What the feck? He’s our best player, who is doing this? Is this rival fans trying to get him to leave?
Who could be the culprit, I wonder?
