The guy has everything to be our cantona further up the pitch, I wouldn't mind seeing him being used as a false number 9 rather that than bloody lingard, he shouldn't be sitting deep or strangely shifted to playing like a winger in a 442 formation, which I've seen a lot recently with him stuck out on the wing by the halfway line?
Paul Pogba is not lazy
- Thread starter Zlatattack
- Start date
Agreed, have you ever seen a giraffe run?
I 100% believe that Ole does want to build the side round him. It's understandable because I don't see us signing another player of his talent level this summer. I think he does believe Pogba is the man to build a side around. Mourinho obviously had the contrary opinion.
Long legs excuse is a new one
I wouldn't say he's lazy but his decisions or timing isn't that good.
It leads very often to dangerous situations ...
It leads very often to dangerous situations ...
That's interesting but also kind of useless. They're trying to do the impossible. Look for patterns of performance from a player who is wildly inconsistent. You don't need stats or detailed analysis of heat maps to know that it's almost impossible to predict which Paul Pogba will turn up.
I mean, look at this shit:
The difference here cannot be put down to tactical tweaks to try and get the best of a talented footballer.
We're looking at the outputs from someone who - in one of the two games being analysed - simply could not be arsed. Which could not have been more obvious at the time to anyone who watched his "performance" against Newcastle.
That's where we will fundamentally disagree, the changes are quite drastic when you consider the simple fact that in the first game, you have a balanced midfield with a creator, a runner and a game manager, in Pogba, Herrera and Carrick while in the other game you have Lingard, Matic and Pogba. I wouldn't be able to tell you what that second midfield is supposed to excel at and I'm not using it as a defense of Pogba since he is 1/3 of the problems of that combination, as a unit their only hope is individual not collective.
And that's ignoring the fact that the front three was made of Sanchez, Lukaku and Martial three players completely out of form at the time.
The problems were way beyond attitude here.
I hated Pogba before he came here. I can't stand such players and I knew it his mentality will be a problem and won't last long here as our player. He won WC, but it's not thanks to him, rather despite him. Can he change? Will he stay? If he starts to actually care he has potential to be our savior, but I don't trust him right now. He must earn it with something more than 2 months of world class performance and 10 months of absolute shit. Had he one more month of his peak form and we would be in top4.
I don't blame Pogba for our flop this season, but expect more if he wants to be here. I will never be his fan, like I despise DDG for his romance with Real, but it doesn't change fact that those players are the best here and can give us many points, at least as useful tools, because there's no sign of new generation of another Scholes, Giggs and Ferdinand. Just mercenaries. But at least make them care.
I don't blame Pogba for our flop this season, but expect more if he wants to be here. I will never be his fan, like I despise DDG for his romance with Real, but it doesn't change fact that those players are the best here and can give us many points, at least as useful tools, because there's no sign of new generation of another Scholes, Giggs and Ferdinand. Just mercenaries. But at least make them care.
Someone who clearly gets it!
The state of our fanbase lapping up narratives driven by people who have no interest in united succeeding but only in them remaining revelant in terms of copy is startling.
We have people getting mad Herrera didn’t get a start this weekend, whilst Young is still a first choice fullback but Pogba is the problem apparently.
We’re about to sell our best player for a relatively small profit & people some how think this is a good idea!
Yeah, the same pundits who pushed to sign Solskjaer are now pushing for us to get rid of our top scorer and top assist maker...
It's so fecking transparent for everyone to see!
I will keep repeating this, Pogba is not the issue.
The issue is we start Young, Smalling & Jones every week. We haven't had an experience DM fit for 2 months and we have no RW. Until those issues are resolved we will never improve.
The issue is we start Young, Smalling & Jones every week. We haven't had an experience DM fit for 2 months and we have no RW. Until those issues are resolved we will never improve.
I guess we'll see. I think Ole is harder to read than most, and if we can piece together the evidence that Pogba is (in fact) quite lazy – despite some trying their very hardest not to see it – then it will not have escaped his attention either. I doubt he's looking to actively shift him, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he would be pretty non-plussed if he did go. It's hard to see how you can square the circle with that Pogba brings (and more importantly does not bring) with the vision of the United side Solskjaer says he wants.
I believe Ole pretty much did that in Dec and built the team around Pogba, and all the good result. What happen in March and thereafter? Did he U-turn and said something nasty about Pogba? I don't think so. It only tells me that as much as you would like to trust Pogba and build your future around him, he can switch on and off any time. Right at this moment he is only interested playing for ZZ....
This.
I've said it before, expecting great things from Pogba when he's surrounded by so many truly terrible footballers is like asking Leonardo Da Vinci to paint a masterpiece and giving him crayons.
He's not lazy, he's trying to do everything and falling between two stools. He's not totally innocent, not by a long shot, but you put ANY of the marque players in Liverpool or City in our team in his place and they'd have the same weekly struggles.
He has to chase his own misplaced passes and miscontrols though
He kept changing his role I think.
Have you ever seen 6’ 5” Usain Bolt run ?
could use nicer wordsI don't think you've comprehended what he's saying, hes not saying it's solely Pogba, he's using his example of the neglect & effort to do basic things. Last week it was Shaw
Haha, If I just walk for 90 minutes, I would cover more distance than Martial does.
No, the problem isn't this guy or that guy. It's the whole fecking club. To come out and say "the 2nd goal against Cardiff illustrates X and Y is nonsense and avoids the actual issue". What they should be saying is "to hire a manager after 15 games shows how shit United are at making important decisions".
No fecking shit that the whole club has problems sherlock. Take that to the Ole thread or the Woodward thread or the Glazers thread where you can rage about it there. This is the Pogba isn’t lazy thread where posters either agree or make counterpoints with examples. I say he’s lazy. One km ran statistic doesn’t change shit about it.
Those sorts of errors stem from the club as a whole, which allowed bad habits to become the norm. They are a reflection of everything.
Like signing the inspiration for your username, for example, lesson was never learnt, good talent but extremely weak minded. These types of players populate the squad. As much you or anyone want to put some blame on Ole, no manager is going to make this squad of players fight for 38-60 games flatout. Yes the board and structure needs to be gutted, but first and foremost so does the squad
Mate, I don't know how much you saw Cantona play, but to even compare Pogba to him is outrageous. The guy wouldn't have laced Eric's boots.
There's a reason why his name is still being sung at Old Trafford over 20 years after he left.
The same, I guarantee will not happen with Pogba.
Tbf, the OT crowd do have a history of disliking French players. What was his name again, that nutter with the kung-fu kick? Despised by the fans, as I recall it.
And that other chap. Don't remember his name, but he wasn't white (hey, a pattern is emerging), as a South American cannibal pointed out on one occasion in particular. Anyway, hugely unpopular too.
And that other chap. Don't remember his name, but he wasn't white (hey, a pattern is emerging), as a South American cannibal pointed out on one occasion in particular. Anyway, hugely unpopular too.
Or how about Louis Saha? As well as ticking the black/French boxes, if ever there was a player that fans could have a gripe with it was Louis and his never-ending supply of sick notes.
But no, he never got even a hint of grief from the stands. Because, guess what, it’s not hard to win United fans over. Providing you’re willing to play football as though you actually give a shit, in every game you play. No exceptions. Break that part of the deal and sure, fans will get on your back. Which seems reasonable to me.
Yup Josep.
There's a reason good players join United and instantly look worse. Almost every single week we have almost half of our outfield players that are no way near good enough and we never ever ever have a right sided threat. Our good players eventually try to much, or get dejected and put simply, drown in the sea of shit around them.
The weeks we get it down to 3 shit outfield players, we tend to look decent enough.
The absolute state of Martial
I think Martial's stat is a reflection of him being lazy and him not being smart enough to make good runs. He just does't understand football.
Very well said. I think Ole is smart enough to realize he could build a very good team around Pogba.
It is.
Fans (match going) actually tend to be quite reasonable in that regard (not in others, to state the obvious).
They tend to turn on players who are perceived as not giving a feck, that is considered the greatest sin, not being a bit shit.
The argument used by some on here is that it's grossly unfair that "players like X, Y and Z get a free pass" while Pogba gets scapegoated. But these people ignore the fact that fans at OT don't tend to turn on players that are, simply, shite - it takes more than that.
Not enough to satisfy the "pashun" merchants.
That’s a pretty poor example tbh. The current mood is completely different and people were definitely more forgiving back then.
People didn’t moan about pogba when we were winning trophies and coming 2nd, but suddenly mourinho is sacked, blames pogba and now he’s enemy number 1? Funny that...
And no pogba is playing no differently to in his first season. If anything His stats are better this year.
I think he was better in his first year despite the stats. He had a lot of penalties and one purple patch this season.
In his first year I think he worked well with Ibra, Irba held the ball up better than what we have now and made great runs for his chipped through balls into the box. His dribbling seemed to be much better too.
I don't understand using goals and assists to support your arguments about Pogba? I would agree with using any other stat bu those two.
Iniesta didn't score much, he was never top on the assists chart either but you felt his presence in every game he was in. Pogba shows up when he wants.
Is he lazy? I think that's a strong word but he can he do better? Absolutely. I don't expect him to be Makelele and Zidane combined, I just want him to show up every game and lift the players around him. For his pricetag, I don't think that's expecting too much.
Iniesta didn't score much, he was never top on the assists chart either but you felt his presence in every game he was in. Pogba shows up when he wants.
Is he lazy? I think that's a strong word but he can he do better? Absolutely. I don't expect him to be Makelele and Zidane combined, I just want him to show up every game and lift the players around him. For his pricetag, I don't think that's expecting too much.
I've witnessed fans at OT turning on Zlatan in the middle of a ridiculous goal scoring season for us. They turned on Felliani, who tried harder than pretty much anyone in the squad."We" actually booed fecking Nani off the pitch for god sakes. Even Ryan Giggs didn't escape it, booed during a semi-final that lad. Ashley Young being substituted was once greeted with a big roar. Don't try making out we've a lovely bunch of fans, we've some of the most negative feckers I've come across anywhere when things aren't going great.
Fellaini and Pogba couldn't be more different, but they are certainly both scapegoated.
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I don't think he is lazy. He is inconsistent game to game, ie poor vs cardif vs decent at Huddersfield.
Confidence is a big contribution to his inconsistency, and it took a massive knock since he was shackled by Marquinos at Old Trafford.
Another contributing factor is that he has seemed more and more out of sync with his team mates as the season went on which coupled with the lack of cohesion shown by the entire team lends credit to the rumours of unrest in the dressing room.
Confidence is a big contribution to his inconsistency, and it took a massive knock since he was shackled by Marquinos at Old Trafford.
Another contributing factor is that he has seemed more and more out of sync with his team mates as the season went on which coupled with the lack of cohesion shown by the entire team lends credit to the rumours of unrest in the dressing room.
Over 60%.
You need to do your maths on that one.
They did though. The “baby elephant in the room” thread cropped up half way (I think?) through his first season under Mourinho. Maybe even earlier?
He's not lazy haha who the hell wrote this!
Have a look at Cardiff second goal yesterday and tell me if he ain't a lazy fecking shite!
Can't be bothered to track his man, no doubt though we will "buy another 3 players who can then unlock Paul Pogba", do me a favour!
Have a look at Cardiff second goal yesterday and tell me if he ain't a lazy fecking shite!
Can't be bothered to track his man, no doubt though we will "buy another 3 players who can then unlock Paul Pogba", do me a favour!