Paul Pogba is not lazy

Wasn't there a graphic doing the rounds recently that suggested he was in fact the laziest player in the entire league with most time spent walking pace, minimal sprints and a host of other less than energetic indicators

  • Yes, according to a fox sports graphic pogba spent 64% of the season at walking pace, the most of all 79 central midfielders in the league. He also spent just 22% jogging. There's not much sense in looking at distance covered when for most of it he may as well have been out strolling with his dogs
 
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Reddy Rederson said:
So why are you bringing them up? He’s high profile, World Cup winner, world class, underperforming in united team that’s gone backwards. Yet none of that matters, the only reason he’s being singled out is because he’s black? :rolleyes:
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Who did I bring up? I said the entire team is under performing. Paul Pogba is part of that team, he too is clearly under performing.

The graph doesn't even say if it's % time or distance, it's an utterly meaningless stat to convince people who care about "pashion and effod" that Paul is the bad one.
 
Abizzz said:
Who did I bring up? I said the entire team is under performing. Paul Pogba is part of that team, he too is clearly under performing.

The graph doesn't even say if it's % time or distance, it's an utterly meaningless stat to convince people who care about "pashion and effod" that Paul is the bad one.
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Oh dear fecking god.
 
freeurmind said:
People realise the ball is usually not in play right? Do they want him sprinting while waiting for a corner or throw in or while the keeper is taking a goal kick? Maybe while someone is being subbed he should be doing sprints along the touchline?
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That would be too logic for most
 
freeurmind said:
He isn't lazy. I don't know how anyone could come to that conclusion. His body language isn't great and sometimes he isn't sprinting back but the amount of criticism he gets on here and in the media is ridiculous. Put him on Liverpool or City and he'd be a candidate for Footballer of the Year imo.
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Footballer of the Year? He wouldn't get into either of their teams, and probably not even into the match day squad.
 
Abizzz said:
Can you please quote one post where this stat has been used previously on this football forum? One?

There's millions of posts, thousands about stats.
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No. You do the homework yourself, or just stick to “it’s cos he’s black” and your tedious arguing tactics.
 
I often notice he covers more distance than anyone in the pitch, but as the results, he walks alot more than anyone to recover his stamina, this makes him look lazy on the pitch. Its all about perception.
 
you know full well this is per match, not adjusted per minutes...

If you take the total distance, divide by minutes, multiply by 90 you get Pogba 10.42km per 90 vs for example Henderson 11.65km, Herrera 11.71km, Eriksen 11.83km
 
Zlatattack said:
This is going to be unpopular but I was having a look at stats and he runs a lot more than many of our players, and even more than some rival players in the same position. Call him what you like but lazy shouldn't be it.

Paul Pogba ran an average of 9.96km per match this season.

Compare that to:
Herrera 8.3km
Henderson 8.02km
Kante 10.94km
Maddison 9.34km
Ramsey 6.42km
Jorginho 10.98km
David Silva 9.19km
KdB 6.97km
Son 7.2km
Eriksen 10.41km
Martial 5.95km

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Look under the matches tab.
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He's lazy with pressing, closing down and running back from a advanced position to get back into shape and help the team.

If distance run = how hard a player works, we could just replace Ander with a long distance runner instead of a footballer
 
Also, Matic is at 11.16

If that isnt a perfect example of covering ground not being the best indicator of hard work, I dont know what is. He ran big distances, rarely winning the ball or protecting the defense.
 
SER19 said:
Wasn't there a graphic doing the rounds recently that suggested he was in fact the laziest player in the entire league with most time spent walking pace, minimal sprints and a host of other less than energetic indicators

  • Yes, according to a fox sports graphic pogba spent 64% of the season at walking pace, the most of all 79 central midfielders in the league. He also spent just 22% jogging. There's not much sense in looking at distance covered when for most of it he may as well have been out strolling with his dogs
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Yes there was. Although TBF that graphic could have been based on fuzzy number shenanigans.

Ajaxsuarez said:
you know full well this is per match, not adjusted per minutes...

If you take the total distance, divide by minutes, multiply by 90 you get Pogba 10.42km per 90 vs for example Henderson 11.65km, Herrera 11.71km, Eriksen 11.83km
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Not very savory but it's probably also worth considering there might be parts of Pogba's entourage trying to spread misinformation and paint him in a kinder light. Kind of like what we saw with the Martial goals comparison graphic. Not saying OP is part of that. But might have picked up something from its slipstream.
 
Ekeke said:
He's lazy with pressing, closing down and running back from a advanced position to get back into shape and help the team.

If distance run = how hard a player works, we could just replace Ander with a long distance runner instead of a footballer
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Agreed! Lazy doesn't necessarily equate to "not running"
TsuWave said:
even coming up with different kinds of lazy for Pogba. this place :lol:
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Imo, Pogba's laziness tag is down to not "running" when he absolutely should be running! For instance, when he makes an errant pass, then jumps up and down in frustration (for show, again imho) instead of busting a gut to win the ball back=lazy
 
I wonder if Zidane,Deco,Riquelme and a few other midfielders from a few years back would have been called lazy if playing in this time.
Pogba is a easy target. Could he be better? Of course but his playing alongside absolute garbage. He isn’t the kind of player you build a team around,the sooner managers realise that the better.
People saying he wouldn’t get into the Liverpool midfield? You think any of their midfielders would get into the France World Cup midfield? It’s clear as day if/when he goes to another team, he’s going to be a World player of the year candidate.
He shouldn’t be wasting his prime years playing in a side like ours,creating chances for forwards like ours and covering for defending like ours.
 
Renegade said:
He shouldn’t be wasting his prime years playing in a side like ours,creating chances for forwards like ours and covering for defending like ours.
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He's the absolute worst at "covering for defenders"!! Even when defending a corner, he half-heartedly jumps and very rarely comes near the ball. Zidane, Deco and Requilme might not be the best at showing what a "play making midfielder" should do to lose a "lazy" tag, but all 3 of them were much more the finished player in the final third!

If Pogba doesn't want people criticizing his laziness, then score 25 goals
 
freeurmind said:
He isn't lazy. I don't know how anyone could come to that conclusion. His body language isn't great and sometimes he isn't sprinting back but the amount of criticism he gets on here and in the media is ridiculous. Put him on Liverpool or City and he'd be a candidate for Footballer of the Year imo.
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I would describe him as "languid", not lazy. However, I think some of the time he's hoping someone will help him make something happen, and often they don't/cant.
 
Achilles McCool said:
He's the absolute worst at "covering for defenders"!! Even when defending a corner, he half-heartedly jumps and very rarely comes near the ball. Zidane, Deco and Requilme might not be the best at showing what a "play making midfielder" should do to lose a "lazy" tag, but all 3 of them were much more the finished player in the final third!

If Pogba doesn't want people criticizing his laziness, then score 25 goals
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Score 25 goals? That’s never been his game ffs. What centre midfielder scores 25 goals? I’m not saying he is the best at covering defenders but has that ever been his game? Why sign a player and expect him to play a completely different way? Why play 2 DM’s alongside him if you want him defending? Also you want him covering the defence but also score 20+ goals the other end? What kind of expectations are those?
I’m not even that huge of a Pogba fan and wouldn’t even care if he left but he is unfairly criticised at times. That’s why he should just go, out expectations of him will never be realistic. Put him in our 06-11 teams and he’d look incredible. Imagine him supplying RVP,prime Rooney etc?
 
Penna said:
I would describe him as "languid", not lazy. However, I think some of the time he's hoping someone will help him make something happen, and often they don't/cant.
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That would be a better description, @Penna I agree. His languid style would be more suited if 2 absolute beasts were around him in a midfield 3 (ie Kante for instance)
 
kundalini said:
Take a more careful look at your stats. I rather suspect you will find that they have divided the total distance covered by the number of games played. This makes players who play all 90 mins look like they have run a lot further than players who got substituted or came on as a sub.

UEFA Champions League website has been producing distance covered stats for several seasons. They list the total distance covered and the mins played so you can calculate average distance covered per 90 mins, if you so wish. Your figures are crazy. Pogba covers significantly less distance than most central midfielders. I know this because I have been following the stats for the past 2 seasons. For instance, Herrera runs about 1 km per 90 mins more than Pogba. Martial runs about 9 km per 90 mins, sometimes marginally less. The only players that average under 8 km per 90 mins are goal-keepers.

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2019/statistics/round=2000980/players/index.html
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One could also make the argument that it's harder for Pogba to cover more ground per 90 because he's going to end up more tired from all the extra minutes he gets.
 
Renegade said:
Score 25 goals? That’s never been his game ffs. What centre midfielder scores 25 goals? I’m not saying he is the best at covering defenders but has that ever been his game? Why sign a player and expect him to play a completely different way? Why play 2 DM’s alongside him if you want him defending? Also you want him covering the defence but also score 20+ goals the other end? What kind of expectations are those?
I’m not even that huge of a Pogba fan and wouldn’t even care if he left but he is unfairly criticised at times. That’s why he should just go, out expectations of him will never be realistic. Put him in our 06-11 teams and he’d look incredible. Imagine him supplying RVP,prime Rooney etc?
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I know, I'm sorta talking outta my ass here (I like Pogba, but just wished he'd be a "Michael Jordan" type). I was thinking of the goals/game numbers that Stevie G and Lampard put up, but upon reflection, they weren't at 25 goals/season either, so Your Honor, I take back my previous argument.
 
The OP stats are misleading. I got the details as following for per 90 minutes

I get Bernardo Silva’s at 11.95km average per 90. Eriksen’s at 11.83km per 90 and Pogba’s at 10.42km per 90.

@In Rainbows

I had a brief look at the minutes thing.

Eriksen has actually played slightly more minutes this season across all comps, 4036 to 4012 and B Silva has played 3935.

Compared to the rest of our team

Herrera covered 11.7km per 90. Matic 11.5km. Fred 11.74. Mctominay 11.76.

There was the question of his build affecting him in comparison to smaller players but similar built players stats are:

Dacoure at Watford, another player of similar build, he covers 11.61km per game and has more minutes in the PL although less overall. Even compared to Eric Dier who is 6ft 2in and what I would consider as cumbersome he comes up short against 11.41km

Those players have played less minutes than him but last season Matic played more minutes than Pogba this season: 3119 and more overall 4156 but still covered 11.74km per game in the PL on average. I’m not sure there’s much drop of with more minutes overall.

Not exhaustive of course but I suspect that minutes played doesn’t affect distance covered profoundly and that Pogba is at the lower end of distance covered per 90 for a midfielder.
 
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The problem with Pogba is that he becomes less effective the further down the pitch he goes. In defence he's pretty useless. That's something I remember he said himself. That's a flaw we need to work upon however he doesn't deserve the abuse he's getting. We've got far bigger problems then Paul Pogba
 
Reddy Rederson said:
So why are you bringing them up? He’s high profile, World Cup winner, world class, underperforming in united team that’s gone backwards. Yet none of that matters, the only reason he’s being singled out is because he’s black? :rolleyes:
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Race isn't the issue. He's a Johnny foreigner, whose paid on big money and who made a career for himself despite proving SAF wrong. The least thing he can do is carry this team of honest British core (most of whom homegrown talent) to victory.

That's the vibe I usually get from people in here.
 
Zlatattack said:
This is going to be unpopular but I was having a look at stats and he runs a lot more than many of our players, and even more than some rival players in the same position. Call him what you like but lazy shouldn't be it.

Paul Pogba ran an average of 9.96km per match this season.

Compare that to:
Herrera 8.3km
Henderson 8.02km
Kante 10.94km
Maddison 9.34km
Ramsey 6.42km
Jorginho 10.98km
David Silva 9.19km
KdB 6.97km
Son 7.2km
Eriksen 10.41km
Martial 5.95km

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Look under the matches tab.
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If you're doing a km run per match then that's a very incorrect statistic because a lot of those players would've had sub appearances in which they obviously would not have run as much as someone starting.

The correct stat would be km run per 90 minutes.
 
Anyone see him marking the player for Cardiff 2nd goal yesterday. Cardiff player just ran off him, no effort to stick tight to him on the throw in and no effort to chase back. That's pogba problem doesn't like to do the defensive work.

Unfortunatley you don't get away with it in the premier league playing midfield. When not on the ball you still need to help team mates out by doing the dirty work and it's not in his locker. Same against Chelsea away this year he just let the defender run off him on the corner and they score. Few games in the past he has lost his player which has ended up being a goal or a big chance on goal for the opposition.

He is talented player and he needs to be surrounded by world class players but we don't have that at the club. We need players we can rely on and it's going to be tough couple of years ahead with rebuilding the squad. Were going to be chasing a few games next season in some games and we need players who can do the crap part of the job which requires effort and desire and don't think Pogba will give us that.
 
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When he's in possession or our team has the ball then Pogba shows great desire! Without the ball he ambles around, jogs back to position and generally looks like he can't be arsed! That's where the lazy tag comes from!
 
The problem with Pogba is that he does not justify his price tag enough. Could be due to many reasons, one being the team is simply not good enough. For his price, many of us expect him to carry us towards a title. Many of us probably thinks how the hell did we buy him for 80million while Van Dijk cost 75 and Salah even lesser. He probably gets more stick than the rest because of his status on social media. As fans, the club means more to us than the players. The players are just employees of an larger organisation who probably have no feelings for the club except for a few of them. Despite the results, these players still get paid their wages and life goes on for them. Many of them are sort of celebrities in their own right with their lives outside of football. Some of them might come out and say sorry to the fans and how much they love the club. But let's be real here and take it with a pinch of salt.

I am actually quite surprised Pogba ran >9km on average. I thought we bought him for his vision and passing skills. Maybe thats why we suck so much. :lol:
And wtf Martial? When i go for a run, its usually more than 5km. United should sign me instead of him
 
Bizarre way to (mis)represent the data. The stats show he runs 10-15% less than most central midfielders and sprints even less often.

Watching him every week also shows the majority of his distance covered is when we have the ball. He's lazy when it comes to tracking back and pressing.

freeurmind said:
He isn't lazy. I don't know how anyone could come to that conclusion. His body language isn't great and sometimes he isn't sprinting back but the amount of criticism he gets on here and in the media is ridiculous. Put him on Liverpool or City and he'd be a candidate for Footballer of the Year imo.
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City and Liverpool's style would be hugely hindered with Pogba in the team, so he wouldn't play. You cant have a pressing, aggressive style where a player in a key position is unwilling to follow suit.

Most teams would just pass through the press of Firmino, Salah & Mane to the free man in central midfield that Pogba had allowed to run 25 yards away from.

Can you imagine Klopp on the touchline with Pogba in the team. He'd have a brain aneurysm.
 
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This nonsense about Pogba being lazy is complete BS and that breakdown of his movement, pathetic.

Look at the comeback we did against City last year. His second goal he starts at the halfway line and scores the header from the penalty spot. It takes him about 5-6 seconds to cover half the length of the pitch and if you watch he never looks like he’s running. He covers the land with a “fast jog” because his stride length is massive.
 
Love how OP makes a post about Pogba not being lazy and finds out he runs the least in our midfield and that is walking the most of any midfielder in the PL :lol:
 
If he has the ball or has the chance to make the headlines, he runs pretty fast with great power.

If he has to do ANYTHING else, he is most definitely lazy. It’s not that he doesn’t run back in to position eventually, it’s that he shows zero desire to do so.

This is probably fine if you’re top of the league and you’re playing the perfect players beside him (like he gets with France) but for a team that’s struggling, it’s another nail in the coffin.
 
Judas said:
The absolute state of Martial :lol:
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freeurmind said:
He isn't lazy. I don't know how anyone could come to that conclusion. His body language isn't great and sometimes he isn't sprinting back but the amount of criticism he gets on here and in the media is ridiculous. Put him on Liverpool or City and he'd be a candidate for Footballer of the Year imo.
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:lol::lol:

That's what I like about the caf. You're always guaranteed a good laugh
 
He just has a languid style similar to Berbatov in his time here.

And we will look back when he leaves and miss him here, much like we do Berba now who himself got criticism during his time here.
 
Adamsk7 said:
If he has the ball or has the chance to make the headlines, he runs pretty fast with great power.

If he has to do ANYTHING else, he is most definitely lazy. It’s not that he doesn’t run back in to position eventually, it’s that he shows zero desire to do so.

This is probably fine if you’re top of the league and you’re playing the perfect players beside him (like he gets with France) but for a team that’s struggling, it’s another nail in the coffin.
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This, it's a bit of an odd thread because on top of being wrong i actually don't think he's called lazy that often anyway.

As you say he's indifferent, he plays and runs when he wants and that's usually when he wants a goal. He's a luxury player and i hope if he stays he's played No 10 because he's a liability elsewhere.
 
Zlatattack said:
This is going to be unpopular but I was having a look at stats and he runs a lot more than many of our players, and even more than some rival players in the same position. Call him what you like but lazy shouldn't be it.

Paul Pogba ran an average of 9.96km per match this season.

Compare that to:
Herrera 8.3km
Henderson 8.02km
Kante 10.94km
Maddison 9.34km
Ramsey 6.42km
Jorginho 10.98km
David Silva 9.19km
KdB 6.97km
Son 7.2km
Eriksen 10.41km
Martial 5.95km

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

Look under the matches tab.
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Mesut Ozil usually has one of the highest distance covered and he's been poor this year but

10.49km per 90minute average vs Pogba's 10.42 per 90 minute average.

The issue with Ozil is he jogs more than he sprints and I suspect this is the case with Pogba and why some fans and pundits believe he isn't putting a shift in. I also suspect that you have to suspect that like Ozil he's a creative luxury player that others need to cover for.

I came across an Instagram with a United fan abusing Pogba after your last game, which seemed well out of line. But clearly a section of fans aren't happy with the shift he's putting in.
 
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