Lukaku is flourishing for Belgium (record goalscorer at 24) playing a progressive brand of fluid and high intensity football. United players do not work hard as a collective, we're third from bottom for distance covered in the league. I don't think Lukaku is incapable of playing in the system Ole is trying to implement. When Lukaku came back from injury during Solskjaer's honeymoon period he went on goal scoring streak with the threat and the pressure of Rashford taking his spot looming over him. He needs to get off the weights and he along with the rest of his teammates need to work hard on their conditioning.
Paul Pogba is not lazy
- Thread starter Zlatattack
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Lukaku is flourishing for Belgium (record goalscorer at 24) playing a progressive brand of fluid and high intensity football. United players do not work hard as a collective, we're third from bottom for distance covered in the league. I don't think Lukaku is incapable of playing in the system Ole is trying to implement. When Lukaku came back from injury during Solskjaer's honeymoon period he went on goal scoring streak with the threat and the pressure of Rashford taking his spot looming over him. He needs to get off the weights and he along with the rest of his teammates need to work hard on their conditioning.
Messi is known to be relaxed and lazy for most the game, just walking about. But no one complains about it because he's GOAT.
You have a point about the style that Mourinho implemented being low energy but I don't think Rom can play a high intensity game on a regular basis. It doesn't look like he'll be here next year anyway.
Fixed that for you (just kidding)
I wouldn't call Pogba lazy but ill disciplined with his positional sense, hence why our other midfielders are always having to cover for him.
With Messi being brought up for his lack of running, if Pogba stays on next season then maybe the best thing to do with him is move him further forward and play as a false number 9 as has all the ability in the world to pull it off and easily get 15 goals a season from there if he his taught how to play the role right.
With Messi being brought up for his lack of running, if Pogba stays on next season then maybe the best thing to do with him is move him further forward and play as a false number 9 as has all the ability in the world to pull it off and easily get 15 goals a season from there if he his taught how to play the role right.
I think first of all, we need to decide what he is. If he's a playmaker/scorer a la Michael Laudrup or a box - to - box midfielder a la Partrick Vieira or a Makelele
Because I think some of us are expecting him to be some superhuman hybrid and that is not possible. Once we know what type of midfielder he is or wants to be, we can fairly judge him because right now we are judging him based on what we think he should play like.
Because I think some of us are expecting him to be some superhuman hybrid and that is not possible. Once we know what type of midfielder he is or wants to be, we can fairly judge him because right now we are judging him based on what we think he should play like.
It doesn't appear that way indeed, but we haven't seen any strong rumors linking him to any specific club. I considered the part in bold, but you have to remember Lukaku's best PL return of 25 came under Roberto Martinez in 2016/17 playing high energy football from front to back with a focus on possession, ball retention and quick transitions in attack.
He flourished under that system (Everton didnt have the right players to sustain it in the ensuing season as they suffered mostly trying to play out of the back) the same way he is under Martinez at NT level. Mourinho tried to convert him to a target man, something he clearly isn't but he still managed 27 in all competitions in his first season here, just one less than Zlatan managed in his first but Zlatan scored 3 penalties whereas Lukaku scored none in his first season. Lukaku also scored 6 with his weak foot compared to Zlatans 2.
TBH it obvious that Pogba is by far our best player. He does run. The problem with our team is there is no structure. All the elite coaches now use it. I'm talking about 'coaching' here and not just managing.
Pep, Klopp, Poch, Sarri, Bielsa, Tuchel etc
All their players know what zones to be in and where to receive the ball etc.
We expect players to improvise so it's a lot easier for them to look poor when there is no system to fall back on.
Pep, Klopp, Poch, Sarri, Bielsa, Tuchel etc
All their players know what zones to be in and where to receive the ball etc.
We expect players to improvise so it's a lot easier for them to look poor when there is no system to fall back on.
He actually covered less ground per 90 for Everton in that season than he did for us this season, although he played a lot more minutes. He was the best striker that Everton have had in a long time but the fans still used to moan about his work rate and technical level.
Some people just don't like nice things. Those Everton fans were hardly in a position to be so snobby when he did what no other striker did for them in the PL era. Scoring more goals than heroes like Ferguson, Cahill and Kevin Campbell
True enough, very similar numbers.
Subbed off 4 times in 28 starts. No sub appearances.
They still like him and would have him back I’m sure but football fans always get hypercritical when things go just a little bit wrong. Even Ronaldo got the hanky treatment at Madrid.
Well, I don't think he's any of the above, really - but I take your overall point.
A player whose primary function is offensive, and who puts up impressive numbers (and/or is part of a setup that clearly works) won't be questioned with regard to how "lazy" he potentially is.
Messi is an extreme example of the above, but it goes for mere mortals as well.
A player occupying a more or less conventional CM role (part of a double pivot of some description, or a more outright box-to-boxer) will naturally be scrutinized to a far greater degree with regard to how willing he is to track, press, etc.
Dallying on the ball, looking for killer passes rather than simple ones, being frustrated (and static) when dispossessed - all of that is much more conspicuous in a deeper lying midfielder, and much more problematic.
Not sure he's lazy. I think it's more that he just hates defending and has been indulged enough that he feels he can get away with not really doing it.
In a perfect world you get through to him and he becomes the perfect rounded midfielder who defends well. In the real world that seems somewhat unlikely. So your realistic options are either sell him or get 2 solid CMs and play him solely as a number 10. I'd go with the latter. Attacking is where his talent lies and it's what seems to come most naturally to him. He's a number 10 in a CM's body. Why fight it?
In a perfect world you get through to him and he becomes the perfect rounded midfielder who defends well. In the real world that seems somewhat unlikely. So your realistic options are either sell him or get 2 solid CMs and play him solely as a number 10. I'd go with the latter. Attacking is where his talent lies and it's what seems to come most naturally to him. He's a number 10 in a CM's body. Why fight it?
Would be great if you can look per match. I guess he 'tries' harder in some games than others.
Think it's more the intensity in which he works at that people don't like, but he's always had that languid style to him, even in the youth team.
I'm not sure if lazy is the word either, but he didn't track runners and switched off defensively in a midfield 2. Then when it was switched to a midfield 3 to accomodate him he was still doing the same thing and the other midfielders had to cover for him.
Maybe defensively lazy instead of outright lazy?
I don't think he's lazy at all. he's just very poor positionally. I think people still don't get the fact that just because we paid a huge amount for him, it doesn't mean he was worth it.
A lot of players talk about him 'drifting' or having a 'free role' but I think that's just lazy analysis because he is always behind the ball when we're defending he's just not very good at it. You'll see him sit too far off someone or be too wide allowing a channel through to a forward or something similar but he's usually there, he's trying to press or trying to affect the game in a positive way. Issue is he's not very good at it.
Pogba just thinks he is better than what he actually is. He thinks he's Pirlo, but with nowhere near the ability.
Hes never going to be the engine of the team, he's more like a turbo but our engine is about a 1.5L atm.
He lacks the intensity the same way someone like nani would but capable of special high confidence plays
He lacks the intensity the same way someone like nani would but capable of special high confidence plays
I see him a bit like Steven Gerrard in his younger day. Capable of having a peak performance at a lot of things on a pitch on any given day but not really regular or with a clear definite role.
To me that's how I see he would thrive. That's kind of annoying for me as I don't like those players as you have to
accommodate them to get the best for them and sometimes "unbalance" the team or not following your ideas for those players. I think that's why Fergie never really rated that high Gerrard.
Honestly as United stand right now, I can live with dying and living by Pogba... On the long term and in terms of being a top team, I'm not a fan especially for a midfilder... Only players you can truly do that (imho) are Ronaldo/Messi because they nearly guarantee you 1/2 goals or assists before the game is started.
Now, if Pogba goes full inside forward or attacking midfielder (and has it in him) that's up for another debate...
This is a poor metric. It doesn’t take into account substitutions, it’s a per game metric.
If you look at meters per minute, Pogba doesn’t look great:
Pogba
Km run total: 348.52
Games: 35
Km/game: 9.96
Minutes: 3,009
Meters per minute: 115.82
James Milner
Km run total: 250.65
Games: 31
Km/game: 8.09
Minutes: 1,786
Meters per minute: 140.10
Herrera is at 130, Matic at 128, Kante at 127 (playing more minutes and every match). Bernardo Silva is at 132.82.
Andreas Pereira is actually at 133...
I don’t think you can be a professional footballer and be “lazy”. Work rate is a skill, and one that Pogba seems to be lacking in comparison to perceived lesser players.
Then there is the eye test. The numbers would seem to back up the eye test. He doesn’t sprint back in transition, walks or complains to the ref when he loses the ball or is fouled. Disappears for long stretches of some matches.
It’s convenient to paint things in black and white. In reality, determining the problems behind us performing poorly are much more complicated.
Pogba can simultaneously be our best player and have a poor work rate or poor effort.
We can simultaneously have Pogba be a problem as well as starting Young, Smalling Jones and Martial as a problem.
We can have a lack of structure and make poor choices in the transfer market, or a system that doesn’t suit our players.
The point is, in most cases, the outcome is determined by many factors, not a single factor.
Pirlo could pass a ball but had nowhere near the same skillset as Pogba.
If we accept that he has great talent then we might also have to accept that he has no real passion for the club. Players who do, don’t have what is probably a 70% not bothered attitude.
God love him...remember that well. Love Beckhams attitude there too.
Beckham was actually at fault. If he'd have got back after his cross was cleared, Solskjær wouldn't have had to run the full length of the pitch to foul someone.
Not only that, the standing ovation he got from the fans shows what it meant to everyone.
Rumours of him being offered captaincy to stay - please no, on both counts