Agree with this.
Paul Pogba is not lazy
- Thread starter Zlatattack
- Start date
Agree with this.
This season, Paul Pogba ranks 1st for United in:
goals/xGoals
assists/xAssists
goal-involvements
xGChain
chances cheated
dribbles
touches
passing chains
progressive passes
through balls
duels won
goals/xGoals
assists/xAssists
goal-involvements
xGChain
chances cheated
dribbles
touches
passing chains
progressive passes
through balls
duels won
As the most high profile signing of Moyes and Mourinho they were always at high risk of being scapegoated. In a way, they each ended up epitomising the inadequacy of the manager that signed them. Throw in Fellaini’s limited technical ability and Pogba’s limited workrate then it stands to reason they’ll attract more criticism than most.
I’m certainly not saying our fans are perfect. Just explaining why it’s obvious that Pogba ended up being heavily criticised by disgruntled fans. For reasons that have nothing to do with his ethnicity or nationality.
They have absolutely nothing to do with his ethnicity or nationality, you are absolutely right there.
Pogba gets picked on because he's our star player and record signing, they expect/expected him to take us back to the top and it's unforgivable that we're not. As I say, I saw some awful abuse hurled at Zlatan during his only full season here, people expect the big players to take us to the top, simple as. In that sense we're absolutely no better than Madrid, well, I say that but they'll slag off big buys even whilst winning Champions Leagues the spoiled sods.
Fan fact for you people who keep talking about Herrera being hard working and Pogba being lazy:
Pogba runs 1.5 km more per game than Herrera.
Pogba runs 1.5 km more per game than Herrera.
I'm not sure about that. People like Berbatov because they remember how silky he was at bringing the ball down and that turn. Most also remember he was a frustrating and ultimately pretty useless player in a high effort system, but enjoy remembering the good stuff.
What would they reminisce about with Pogba?
A really fascinating article if anyone is interested:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...pogba-manchester-united-defence-a8890911.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...pogba-manchester-united-defence-a8890911.html
Like others have said you need to divide my the minutes played, not the games played. Being below 10km per match would be bad, thankfully Pogba is at least covering 10.4km per match.
Other midfielders at United (km):
- Fred 11.7
- Pereira 12.0
- Herrera 11.7
- Matic 11.5
- McTominay 11.8
- Mata 11.9
- Lingard 11.6
I’m not really convinced by these type of stats...I’d prefer a player conserves energy, rather than headless chicken running to appease fans etc.
But Pogba’s ‘effort’ for Cardiff’s second yesterday was disgraceful. Switching off and allowing a runner is bad enough but then he doesn’t bother even moving. Nothing to do with his languid style or that he’s jogging or whatever, he literally stands there and doesn’t even try. How anybody could watch that and defend him is mind-boggling.
But Pogba’s ‘effort’ for Cardiff’s second yesterday was disgraceful. Switching off and allowing a runner is bad enough but then he doesn’t bother even moving. Nothing to do with his languid style or that he’s jogging or whatever, he literally stands there and doesn’t even try. How anybody could watch that and defend him is mind-boggling.
Fan fact for you people who keep talking about Herrera being hard working and Pogba being lazy:
Pogba runs 1.5 km more per game than Herrera.
Would a lot of that being Pogba covers more areas of the pitch going forward, whereas Herrera has his section on the pitch where he mainly works, how much ground you cover over the pitch does not necessarily mean anything work rate wise.
Anyone saying that Pogba works harder than Herrera needs their head testing.
Fan fact for you people who keep talking about Herrera being hard working and Pogba being lazy:
Pogba runs 1.5 km more per game than Herrera.
Pogba is much more up and down than Herrera so Herrera will always look busier.
I'm absolutely fine with Pogba's workrate, he busts a gut plenty of times per match and does his share of defensive work. Sometimes he's a massive culprit of trying to do too much because his teammates are so poor.
That said, stuff like the second goal yesterday is unacceptable in any side, even if you're asbolutely spent. Whether he stays here or ends up in Spain, that's something he has to work on because you can't always stop and rely on the people behind you to do a good job.
THIS - Absolutely bang on
Nani was booed (by a significant number of fans) because he was perceived not to be that arsed. He may have been booed by people who simply didn't like him as well, that will happen at any ground, but rarely in numbers.
Anyway, let's say the OT crowd are savage bastards in general, then - it makes for an even poorer argument for those who seem to push a story here about Pogba being singled out in an unprecedented fashion.
Lukaku is a world class striker as well and holds the ball really well.
Well
Well
Sorry, your stats are wrong.
The actual figures are:
Matic: 11.16 km
Pogba: 9.96 km
Herrera: 8.30 km
Fred: 7.99 km
Lingard: 7.99 km
Mata: 7.77 km
McTominay: 7.03 km
Pereira: 5.27 km
Check yourself at www.premierleague.com
Saha got plenty of stick for being mentally weak though. When he missed that penalty at Celtic Park in 2006, for example: it was seen as proof of his frailty for many. And his never-ending injuries were something of a running joke after a while.
We remember him fondly because he was a small part of a very successful era, where other players played the most important roles. If he were to perform similarly - and had the same injury record - in this current, mostly shite team, he would definitely be considered "deadwood" that we must cut.
And of course he wasn't a world record signing, expected to be star of the team. That's a pretty massive difference, too.
Those stats aren't per 90, which means that they are highly flawed.
Edit: By the way, in terms of work rate per 90 is also a flawed statistic because the more minutes you play the more likely your performances will drop within the game. Players that leave the field after 60 minutes or only play 30 minutes should have an higher average per 90.
Yet morons will claim that we'll be much better off without our only creative player
Excellent post, thanks for putting that all together - should be mandatory reading for anyone posting in this thread.
Give me 130m for Pogba and spend that on a balanced midfield 3 who work well and cover all bases:
Neves/Rice/Fernandes or Tielemens
Think we would be a better team for it, given we might not have the Pogba show and finish 6th, but I am sure would could this sensational side close!
Christ could you imagine the club being bigger than Paul Pogba, what a thought that is.
I think the only thing I really learned from looking at the distance covered stats was how much further central midfielders run than anyone else on the pitch (I think I had assumed that fullbacks probably racked up the greatest distances).
Also, in the Champions League, Mata is basically the Duracell bunny - 12.7km per 90 minutes.
Brozovic, Vecino, Eriksen, Hamsik, Milner, Dele Alli, Pjanic, Koke really cover some ground, too (all around 12km+).
Also, in the Champions League, Mata is basically the Duracell bunny - 12.7km per 90 minutes.
Brozovic, Vecino, Eriksen, Hamsik, Milner, Dele Alli, Pjanic, Koke really cover some ground, too (all around 12km+).
That's only half his job.
Then why the feck did you reply to me?
Terrible. That’s just a little longer than my thrice a week cardio done in 30 mins..The absolute state of Martial
For the percentage running, walking etc stats, it is worth bearing in mind that the ball is only in play for between 53 and 59 minutes of the total 90. Figures from 2017 here (https://talksport.com/football/3159...emier-league-side-201718-season-171127263506/). So 33%-40% of the time I would not expect anyone to be running about too much. Granted there is running up/back for corners and goal kicks etc, but unlikely you are going to be sprinting when the ball is out of play.
And, as I said earlier, he should be the last name on the list. It's been proven time and time again that a lot of success is a direct result of Pogba being involved. It's no surprise the moment he stopped scoring and assisting, we stopped winning. Yet, a large proportion of Redcafe wants to get rid of our most productive (this season) and influential player.
I have my qualms with Pogba but it's ridiculous how much people go back and forth on him.
Also, the username wasn't my doing.
I am least bothered about his running stats if he produces another season with same output. He is not our problem. Period.
Dunno about sprinting but I could think of plenty of reasons for players to need to run with the ball out of play.
In fact, the very idea that it's ok to stand still when the ball out of play is the sort of half-arsed defensive effort that saw Barcelona concede the goal that knocked them out of the Champion's League.
Everyone is throwing his stats around here, runs, goals, assists, through balls, chances created etc.
I would love to know what his stats are re goals conceded or chances created against us that he was directly involved in, I have a feeling that might be extremely high.
I think he will still be at the club next year, Madrid need a slap if they spend 130m+ on him IMO.
If he stays he stays, if he goes then see you later, not overly arsed either way but if we were offered 130m, I would take that and run.
I would love to know what his stats are re goals conceded or chances created against us that he was directly involved in, I have a feeling that might be extremely high.
I think he will still be at the club next year, Madrid need a slap if they spend 130m+ on him IMO.
If he stays he stays, if he goes then see you later, not overly arsed either way but if we were offered 130m, I would take that and run.
An other thing is that in general there is something strange about Sky sports new sprint stats, they have basically recorded 4 times fewer than last year. At the top Dele Alli was at +2600 sprints last season and Chilwell was at 609 last march.
Otherwise on average players are apparently supposed to walk 40% of the time and standing 20% of it.
Depressing isn't it. Our best/most creative player is also the fans no.1 most hated/unwanted player.
No, its no surprise Herrera gets installed as a first team player, the team is more fluid and he benefits as a result and starts getting goals, same goes when Herrera got injured, it co insides with the drop the off.
Go back to August to December and Pogba was a passenger. The fact he is in team of the year is laughable.
Pogba is a highly talented player, but he's a luxury for the team, so all depends if that luxury is worth it...
Also none us know what his attitude off the pitch is like but its been more then hinted by people in the know (Jose etc) its not 100% focused on the team. If this is true, these are the weak minded players that the club need to get rid off, and this is coming from someone who thinks if every part of his game came together he would not only be the best midfielder in the world but up there with some of the best ever.
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Let's not forget who he is up against, he has played every minute he has been available and is up against Mata who rarely plays, Rashford who shoots whenever he gets the ball, Lingard who has 16 assists in his career and one in 2019, Sanchez...moving on, Lukaku who is just a lump, Martial lazy and disinterested, Herrera, Matic, McTominay, Pereira and Fred.
It's not like he is topping the charts at City or Liverpool is it mate, he is basically better than the rest of the drivel.
For me it is a similar situation to Liverpool and Coutinho, they sold their best player and bought Van Dijk/Alisson, sold best player to improve the overall team.
I can see us following suit.
We have not had a proper functioning midfield since BEFORE Fergie left. We have also not had an available scapegoat such as Pogba. It is all too easy to blame him for all the teams ills but the truth is he is the nearest thing to the real deal we have got. Yes I get that he is a bit arrogant, laid back, lazy even etc. but I would bet my last penny that if he goes to a top team he will be an outstanding asset for that team. Ironically I don't think Real Madrid is the right team for him, they are like us in that they are an ageing team and had several managers of late, but still in a better position than us. He would make a big contribution there but not as much as for other top European teams.
Need a threadmark here. This post makes the entire topic useless all honestly.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/baby-elephant-is-growing-quickly-in-the-room.422336/
You are correct.
Interestingly pretty much all the complaints are identical to what he has now. It's clear his price tag has influenced many people to expect more than what he's capable of.
What we can expect from Pogba;
Plenty of goal scoring chances created, a fair amount of goals from open play. Great long and short passing with the ability to hold the ball under pressure.
What we can't expect.
The individual ability to win a match by himself, expecting him to be creator, scorer, destroyer, and everything in between.
"Rest of the drivel"
But honestly, what has happened to this great team.Maybe we should do something similar to the Grasshoppers Zurich fans. They got relegated for the 1st time in 70 years. At 4-0 down in Luzern fans moved pitchside and threatened to storm the pitch. Demanded players hand over shirts & socks. Wanted them to crawl back to changing room like dogs, in just pants. Game abandoned.
Fans with their perceptions of reality
I'd say more with Pogba it's his often half arse running when tracking an attacker, that really get the back up of the fans.
How about you read my post properly.
Statistics aren't flawed, how they are perceived are often wrong.