Paul Pogba | Back in full training

Hate to interupt speculation with a question, but what do folks think of putting him on the right side of a midfield 3, opposite Bruno and ahead of McSauce/Fred?

As we only have players who like to play from the left (Bruno, James, Martial, Rashford, Pogba) feels like the right hand side is free for a talented player to claim it.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
I've been in and out of the Pogba news so how has he "disrespected" the club? Honest question.
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Pick any of the following:

1) Injured and is not back on the field yet Andres Gomes who broke his leg was back quicker. Medical reports people have access to clearly show he could have been back earlier if he wanted to but, because he doesn't respect the club and wants out, he has chosen not to
2) Had surgery when he could have waited. Again, the these medical reports some have access to, clearly show he could have played on and waited till the end of the season. He chose to forgo a large part of the season for United so he could be fit for Euros instead with France.
3) His brother has said some things in the media. Whenever someone speaks about a footballer, if they are loyal and respectful to the club, they will always immediately call a press conference to show they don't necessarily agree with what was said or at the very least they go to social media. Pogba hasn't done that, so he is clearly disrespecting the club.
4) Raoila - same as number 3.
5) He's not been at every game with the club through his injuries, he has decided to rehab elsewhere. Every loyal and respectful footballer only rehabs with the club physios and makes every home and away game, that's a known fact.

On the flip side for us Pogbanistas, Pogba FC or in general people that don't have severe dislike for him

1) He has had 2 injuries this season - the first one he came back exactly in the time table Ole had said after they had got all the medical scans, which was mid-December.
2) His second injury, Ole spoke even before the scan about him maybe being a few weeks out. Then when he saw specialists that he trusts, they advised surgery. Ole said it was a normal thing, it was something he even did, go to outside the club when he had his injury. After that there was no timetable set post surgery.
3) A players friends, family, agents say stuff in the media all the time. Very rarely do you see players then either corroborate or disagree publicly. As fans we wish they would but, it's not reality and it isn't disrespectful - it's just part of what happens in the business of football.
4) Yes, he rehabbed away from the club, so did Dalot this season itself and others have done the same, so not sure why it's seen as disrespectful by him when it's a normal thing in any sporting area. Rashford was even away from the club after his injury and not been at every game but, he isn't seen as someone disrespecting the club.
 
Shimo said:
2) Had surgery when he could have waited. Again, the these medical reports some have access to, clearly show he could have played on and waited till the end of the season. He chose to forgo a large part of the season for United so he could be fit for Euros instead with France.
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This is the one that gets to me the most. At a time where we were completely struggling for players in midfield playing Perreira there.

Prior to the injury, Ole was all about Pogba coming back and good words.

Now, he doesn't really say much on it, almost he has accepted that Pogba doesnt want to play for United and his desire is not there anymore.

If we were going for the title, he would have delayed the op.
 
Shimo said:
Pick any of the following:

1) Injured and is not back on the field yet Andres Gomes who broke his leg was back quicker. Medical reports people have access to clearly show he could have been back earlier if he wanted to but, because he doesn't respect the club and wants out, he has chosen not to
2) Had surgery when he could have waited. Again, the these medical reports some have access to, clearly show he could have played on and waited till the end of the season. He chose to forgo a large part of the season for United so he could be fit for Euros instead with France.
3) His brother has said some things in the media. Whenever someone speaks about a footballer, if they are loyal and respectful to the club, they will always immediately call a press conference to show they don't necessarily agree with what was said or at the very least they go to social media. Pogba hasn't done that, so he is clearly disrespecting the club.
4) Raoila - same as number 3.
5) He's not been at every game with the club through his injuries, he has decided to rehab elsewhere. Every loyal and respectful footballer only rehabs with the club physios and makes every home and away game, that's a known fact.

On the flip side for us Pogbanistas, Pogba FC or in general people that don't have severe dislike for him

1) He has had 2 injuries this season - the first one he came back exactly in the time table Ole had said after they had got all the medical scans, which was mid-December.
2) His second injury, Ole spoke even before the scan about him maybe being a few weeks out. Then when he saw specialists that he trusts, they advised surgery. Ole said it was a normal thing, it was something he even did, go to outside the club when he had his injury. After that there was no timetable set post surgery.
3) A players friends, family, agents say stuff in the media all the time. Very rarely do you see players then either corroborate or disagree publicly. As fans we wish they would but, it's not reality and it isn't disrespectful - it's just part of what happens in the business of football.
4) Yes, he rehabbed away from the club, so did Dalot this season itself and others have done the same, so not sure why it's seen as disrespectful by him when it's a normal thing in any sporting area. Rashford was even away from the club after his injury and not been at every game but, he isn't seen as someone disrespecting the club.
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Wow. You really worked hard to convince the guy who asked about Pogba didn't you. The important part you didn't seem to focus on is. 1. Raiola has come out and disrespected the club by attacking the manager, trying to create drama, tension so it's easier for him to manipulate the club. Why would he do these things? He is doing his job on behalf of Pogba who have made his feelings known, that he has a strong desire to leave the club. Having your agent do whatever is necessary to get you out is a desperate move if we're kind, and if we're harsh it's an attack on the club. The middle ground is that Pogba wants out and doesn't mind having his agent causing damage to the club to get him out. I think that's perfectly fine, if he wants to burn his bridges to leave then he can do it but I find it weird some people insist on ignoring his intentions. It's been pretty clear, and if this all has been a show just to get more money from a contract, I think we all agree we could do without that circus. Because if he wants to stay, it's indeed a big circus and all these actions is totally unnecessary and only serves to hurt the club.
 
laughtersassassin said:
For now. He might get bored of carrying if we don't improve in 4 years. Who is to say.
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Can somebody please explain how Pogba is carrying our team or when this was ever the case. Please just watch Southampton away from this season and explain how the worst player out of the 22 on the pitch that day was carrying out team? I sometimes wonder what player you lot have been watching?
 
People are forgetting that Raiola and Pogba's brothers have been very vocal for at least a couple of years.

You don't see that from any other player - you might get a comment or statement when contract negotiations are happening, or a transfer is imminent, but this public speaking exercise is way over the top when it comes to Pogba's camp.
 
Shimo said:
Pick any of the following:

1) Injured and is not back on the field yet Andres Gomes who broke his leg was back quicker. Medical reports people have access to clearly show he could have been back earlier if he wanted to but, because he doesn't respect the club and wants out, he has chosen not to
2) Had surgery when he could have waited. Again, the these medical reports some have access to, clearly show he could have played on and waited till the end of the season. He chose to forgo a large part of the season for United so he could be fit for Euros instead with France.
3) His brother has said some things in the media. Whenever someone speaks about a footballer, if they are loyal and respectful to the club, they will always immediately call a press conference to show they don't necessarily agree with what was said or at the very least they go to social media. Pogba hasn't done that, so he is clearly disrespecting the club.
4) Raoila - same as number 3.
5) He's not been at every game with the club through his injuries, he has decided to rehab elsewhere. Every loyal and respectful footballer only rehabs with the club physios and makes every home and away game, that's a known fact.

On the flip side for us Pogbanistas, Pogba FC or in general people that don't have severe dislike for him

1) He has had 2 injuries this season - the first one he came back exactly in the time table Ole had said after they had got all the medical scans, which was mid-December.
2) His second injury, Ole spoke even before the scan about him maybe being a few weeks out. Then when he saw specialists that he trusts, they advised surgery. Ole said it was a normal thing, it was something he even did, go to outside the club when he had his injury. After that there was no timetable set post surgery.
3) A players friends, family, agents say stuff in the media all the time. Very rarely do you see players then either corroborate or disagree publicly. As fans we wish they would but, it's not reality and it isn't disrespectful - it's just part of what happens in the business of football.
4) Yes, he rehabbed away from the club, so did Dalot this season itself and others have done the same, so not sure why it's seen as disrespectful by him when it's a normal thing in any sporting area. Rashford was even away from the club after his injury and not been at every game but, he isn't seen as someone disrespecting the club.
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Thanks! Interesting stuff
 
westmeath said:
Can somebody please explain how Pogba is carrying our team or when this was ever the case. Please just watch Southampton away from this season and explain how the worst player out of the 22 on the pitch that day was carrying out team? I sometimes wonder what player you lot have been watching?
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He was literally our best player last season in nearly every possible way......

When he plays everything goes through him cause no one else could create anything....
 
Darlington Padgett said:
I'm pretty sure Ronaldo never criticized the club or sent his agent and brother to do so.We were doing pretty horrible and it was humiliating having our
"best player" saying bad things about the club. There is a huge diferente between flirting and actually saying he needs and wants to leave for a better club.
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Oh come on, every time Ronaldo's contract was due for an uplift, there were constant rumours linking him with us. Miraculously, he didn't leave and ended up with an improved contract every time. As dispicable a character as Riola is, he's just doing his job to get the best for his client, he's just particularly unpleasant at it. For all we know, Pogba might not like the way he is going about it, but Riola says, don't worry, I know what I'm doing, you'll get a bumper new contract soon. You just concentrate on getting fit and playing your best football until the end of the season.
 
westmeath said:
Can somebody please explain how Pogba is carrying our team or when this was ever the case. Please just watch Southampton away from this season and explain how the worst player out of the 22 on the pitch that day was carrying out team? I sometimes wonder what player you lot have been watching?
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Are you sure you aren't watching Lingard, not Pogba? He hasn't played for a while so might have got them mixed up.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Oh come on, every time Ronaldo's contract was due for an uplift, there were constant rumours linking him with us. Miraculously, he didn't leave and ended up with an improved contract every time.
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Did his agent / family member come out saying we all know Ronaldo wants to go to Manutd?

Did his agent come out saying his ambition is not matched with Ronaldo's?

Did his agent say he wouldnt bring another player to Real Madrid?

Did Ronaldo turn up in games regardless of any off the field issues?
 
romufc said:
Yes, and we finished 6th.

We have a possibility of finishing 4th without him.
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So? We lost so many points this season because there was no creativity at all. Pogba is the most creative player in the team so it would have helped having him creating chances for Martial or Rashford instead of leaving that up to Lingard or Pereira.

With a fit Pogba this season we would be 4th... not a possible finish but actually there.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
Yeah lets forget that we also finished 2nd the season before with him in the team.
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Okay, was he the best player that season then? that is what everyone is saying about last season.

Do you want to go check who won fans player and players player of the year too.
 
romufc said:
Did his agent / family member come out saying we all know Ronaldo wants to go to Manutd?

Did his agent come out saying his ambition is not matched with Ronaldo's?

Did his agent say he wouldnt bring another player to Real Madrid?

Did Ronaldo turn up in games regardless of any off the field issues?
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What's your point here, was Ronaldo playing in a team that did not match his ambition?
 
romufc said:
Yes, and we finished 6th.

We have a possibility of finishing 4th without him.
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We're like 12 points worse off this year. Not sure I'd be pushing that argument too far.
 
Beachryan said:
We're like 12 points worse off this year. Not sure I'd be pushing that argument too far.
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So its based on points not position?

Then Fergie would never have won a title if the benchmark is 100.

I am guessing players will be saying well, you got less points so I don't want to join the club? even if we finish top 4
 
romufc said:
So its based on points not position?

Then Fergie would never have won a title if the benchmark is 100.
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Doesnt it prove that more games are won and more points are taken WITH Pogba than without Pogba?

All Manchester United can do about the league position is to win games and collect more points than other clubs. With Pogba more points are taken so it should improve the league position... if we had the extra points that would have likely been the result of Pogba playing than the league position would be even better.

So technically points are more important than the league position. The one with the most points wins.
 
Stadjer said:
Doesnt it prove that more games are won and more points are taken WITH Pogba than without Pogba?
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Yes, so forget all the momentum we are building with a group of players that WANT to be here and throw him in the starting line up everytime he is fit.

We may be a better team with Pogba in it but doesn't mean you ignore everything surrounding him.

I would only play him when we need him in case of injures, need a goal, or want to rest Bruno.
 
Stadjer said:
Doesnt it prove that more games are won and more points are taken WITH Pogba than without Pogba?
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People will just argue anything. What difference does it make which team had more points anyway? A player can excel in a team that itself may struggle.

Pogba was the best player at United last season, and we should look forward to his return because it can only help the team. Ole knows the quality of Pogba and he will be in the starting line up as soon as he is match fit. As for the summer, if he wants to leave - he can go. Out of all the players we have signed since SAF, he is probably the only one we will actually make any sort of profit on.
 
romufc said:
Yes, so forget all the momentum we are building with a group of players that WANT to be here and throw him in the starting line up everytime he is fit.

We may be a better team with Pogba in it but doesn't mean you ignore everything surrounding him.

I would only play him when we need him in case of injures, need a goal, or want to rest Bruno.
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Well... even if Ole isnt the perfect manager i am glad he is the manager and not you. I fully hope and expect that Ole will use and start Pogba from the moment Pogba is able to play.

In my opinion Pogba is even superior to Bruno.
 
Stadjer said:
Well... even if Ole isnt the perfect manager i am glad he is the manager and not you. I fully hope and expect that Ole will use and start Pogba from the moment Pogba is able to play.

In my opinion Pogba is even superior to Bruno.
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I don't think that is a very controversial opinion. Only some Manchester Utd. fans blinded by hate due to Mourinho's antics will disagree with that.
 
I want to see Pogba next to Fred in the team right now, with Fernandes in front of them. If we can make that work, it elevates the whole team, because it's the perfect midfield on paper.
 
Stadjer said:
Doesnt it prove that more games are won and more points are taken WITH Pogba than without Pogba?

All Manchester United can do about the league position is to win games and collect more points than other clubs. With Pogba more points are taken so it should improve the league position... if we had the extra points that would have likely been the result of Pogba playing than the league position would be even better.

So technically points are more important than the league position. The one with the most points wins.
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Thank you, that was precisely my point, which was clearly missed.
 
MikeKing said:
Wow. You really worked hard to convince the guy who asked about Pogba didn't you. The important part you didn't seem to focus on is. 1. Raiola has come out and disrespected the club by attacking the manager, trying to create drama, tension so it's easier for him to manipulate the club. Why would he do these things? He is doing his job on behalf of Pogba who have made his feelings known, that he has a strong desire to leave the club. Having your agent do whatever is necessary to get you out is a desperate move if we're kind, and if we're harsh it's an attack on the club. The middle ground is that Pogba wants out and doesn't mind having his agent causing damage to the club to get him out. I think that's perfectly fine, if he wants to burn his bridges to leave then he can do it but I find it weird some people insist on ignoring his intentions. It's been pretty clear, and if this all has been a show just to get more money from a contract, I think we all agree we could do without that circus. Because if he wants to stay, it's indeed a big circus and all these actions is totally unnecessary and only serves to hurt the club.
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Rialoa came out and apologised the day after his rant. But i guess your not gonna give pogba any credit in that?
 
romufc said:
Yes, and we finished 6th.

We have a possibility of finishing 4th without him.
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So you are saying that despite being the best players it is his fault we finished sixth? Not the other players worse than him?

Also what about the fact that it takes a lot less points to finish 4th this season? Does that factor into your calculation.

What about the fact we have a better defence?

Making correlations where there are none.
 
romufc said:
Okay, was he the best player that season then? that is what everyone is saying about last season.

Do you want to go check who won fans player and players player of the year too.
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Not the best player that's for sure, nothing against Shaw but he was just improved over his previous seasons of being non existent.

He was not our best player by any means.
 
mancan92 said:
Rialoa came out and apologised the day after his rant. But i guess your not gonna give pogba any credit in that?
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You want me to give Pogba credit for when his agent attacked the manager for no particular reason, or for when his agent apologised for attacking the manager? Or both? Like Pogba is the devil for Raiola making those comments, and is a saint for personally revoking his LA privileges after he made them. I don't think any of that.

Pogba has told his agent to get him out of the club. The comments made backfired and ended up reflecting bad on Pogba. That isn't what Raiola had planned, making those comments he did. If I had to guess his aim was to create a Ole vs Pogba thing. It probably would have worked too if we didn't win against Chelsea.

If I have to speculate, I'd guess Ole isn't going to play Pogba after he himself made it clear to everyone he wanted to leave. Raiola want his player to play until the summer and then leave after a good Euro's, and Ole isn't having any of it. Why would he attack Ole? So that the narrative of "Ole not playing Pogba means we lack ambitions" could be created to then wrestle Ole into playing Pogba after all. This is Raiola we're talking about, he is not beyond anything at all in terms of outrageous behaviour but he rarely do anything if it doesn't serve a specific purpose.

I'm not saying I believe in my own speculations either, it's just that for something left field like that to happen there has to be a reason.
 
MikeKing said:
Not sure what he'd bring that is so special. He is creative, but not a winger or forward. He takes up mostly the same positions as Bruno, and he doesn't put up the numbers Bruno does. He hasn't got the defensive nous of Matic, doesn't put himself about as well as McTominay and can't run as much as Fred. Not tenacious either. He isn't particularly good at facing pressure from opponents and isn't himself great at pressing, which is a requirement from everyone in the team not just the midfielders. Maybe against some European teams and bottom clubs we could afford to play a bonus player similar to how we've used Mata recently. Not sure it's worth to try and work out how he fits in if he wants to leave either way. Could possibly just be a waste of time and effort with no return of the trust given.
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Wow! You must be talking about Mathius Pogba. Clearly - Paul Pogba has put up the numbers, the running stats, and the pass completion rates to actually negate all your points. But there is no reasoning with our split fan base on qualities of Pogba.

His only problem is consistently performing above a 7/10. Sometimes he has super off days - but overall he is still our best player!
 
Shiva87 said:
Wow! You must be talking about Mathius Pogba. Clearly - Paul Pogba has put up the numbers, the running stats, and the pass completion rates to actually negate all your points. But there is no reasoning with our split fan base on qualities of Pogba.

His only problem is consistently performing above a 7/10. Sometimes he has super off days - but overall he is still our best player!
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I'm listening to reason. Pogba has had good numbers but we've accommodated him too. His first season here when he kept hitting the woodwork, he was incredible. Had a good half last season and improved slightly in work rate. He hasn't been doing it consistently and has done nothing this season though to say it's a risk worth taking. If he wasn't so clear on his intentions to leave, and his commitment to the team wasn't in doubt then his talent alone would see him get all the time needed no question. There wouldn't be a risk in introducing him to the team, it would only be positive. I think it's naive to not consider circumstances. Highly doubt Pogba would come right into this team without us missing something, and you couldn't blame him for not delivering stats after being out for a season imo. Not a risk I would take at this moment in time, especially since Pogba might just leave anyways.
 
Look, the fact of the matter is this: is having the productivity (if any) of a demotivated, unhappy Pogba worth it? I say no. I'll be kind and say he's been here for three rather than four years, but in those three years what has he actually produced? A run of 10 games where he's performed at the level expected?

If anything, there's an argument to be had to around whether he's worth it when he's happy and committed to the club, let alone now.

He's been a letdown (and yes, he's also been let down). He should have been the leader of this team. Everything was set for him to do so. He had a manager who backed him to the hilt. He had a young team ready to be taken under his wing. Literally everything was in place for him to show what he could do. And yet, like everything with Pogba at Utd, it petered out into nothing.

Bruno coming in has really shown him up and has well and truly screwed him in terms of his chances of pressurising an exit that isn't on the club's terms. We could quite conceivably get top 4 now without any input from Pogba, and it most definitely won't happen, but we could put him out to pasture for the whole of next season as well. Would be hilarious if it did happen though.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Not the best player that's for sure, nothing against Shaw but he was just improved over his previous seasons of being non existent.

He was not our best player by any means.
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He was our most consistent player, though.

Just because pogba had a few very good games followed by some absolute dross, does not make him the POTY.
 
alexthelion said:
He was our most consistent player, though.

Just because pogba had a few very good games followed by some absolute dross, does not make him the POTY.
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Consistent at an ok level does not make you the best player. It easy to be consistent when you're high is 6/10 as Shaw's was last season. Sure Shaw has been much better this season than last and I still wouldn't say he has been excellent.

It's like Matic, he was consistent all season last year. A consistently low level. If you never peak your drops don't seem so low.

Pogba on the other hand low might be 6/10 bar maybe two games lower and highs of 10/10.

It's all personal opinion of course but I know I'd rather a player who can give me those 10/20 games than one I know at will be between 4 or 6/10.
 
rotherham_red said:
Look, the fact of the matter is this: is having the productivity (if any) of a demotivated, unhappy Pogba worth it? I say no. I'll be kind and say he's been here for three rather than four years, but in those three years what has he actually produced? A run of 10 games where he's performed at the level expected?

If anything, there's an argument to be had to around whether he's worth it when he's happy and committed to the club, let alone now.

He's been a letdown (and yes, he's also been let down). He should have been the leader of this team. Everything was set for him to do so. He had a manager who backed him to the hilt. He had a young team ready to be taken under his wing. Literally everything was in place for him to show what he could do. And yet, like everything with Pogba at Utd, it petered out into nothing.

Bruno coming in has really shown him up and has well and truly screwed him in terms of his chances of pressurising an exit that isn't on the club's terms. We could quite conceivably get top 4 now without any input from Pogba, and it most definitely won't happen, but we could put him out to pasture for the whole of next season as well. Would be hilarious if it did happen though.
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C’mon man. He was our leader in every stat going last year and was in the PFA Team of the Year. He is was instrumental in us finishing second in the league with 80+ points and winning two trophies in Mou’s first season.

Bruno vs Pogba is quickly turning into the finest example yet of how much better black people have to be to get the same recognition and opportunities in life. If Bruno is celebrated for three goals, Pogba is criticised for it being two pens and one goalkeeper error. If Bruno delivers three assists, Pogba is undermined by only one of them being from open play and it ‘only being set pieces’. Bruno’s defensive work and tenacity is applauded; Pogba’s team-leading defensive stats from last season are forgotten for Souness lamenting him not tracking back.
 
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