[el3mel]

Nothing new let's be honest. Our best player but he turns on when he wants. When he's not in the mood it ends like yesterday. Very moody and inconsistent great player.

 

[kouroux]

Was he 100% fit ? Very bad game anyway

 

[AngliaRed]

Not defending him but, he probably wasn’t fit, he had Matic besides him, he tries too hard to force the issue and he has Lukaku up front.

Wouldn’t suprise me if the plan all along was to take him off on 60mins. He didn’t look 100% fit from the start.

 

[AltiUn]

Not defending him but, he probably wasn’t fit, he had Matic besides him, he tries too hard to force the issue and he has Lukaku up front.

Wouldn’t suprise me if the plan all along was to take him off on 60mins. He didn’t look 100% fit from the start.

That's probably a good shout, I forgot he had an injury before the internationals.

 

[11101]

Because Carrick never had bad games ? Bad seasons ? His strength was keeping it simple, but he had his own weaknesses and plenty of them. Comparing Pogba to Carrick is weird, they aren't anything alike. The only comparison you can make is the fact that once you took away Fergie, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rio, Vidic, Evra.....great players.....Carrick struggled to achieve anything for us.

Currently Pogba is struggling to achieve anything much for us. Totally different players except from this. We have enough simple players. We need some more great players, and a gameplan.

Pogba was poor yesterday.

Frankly, we need to build the team around him. We seem reluctant to do it because we're hanging on to this narrative that no player is bigger than the team, but that doesn't mean everybody has to be an equal in that team. We need other players to cover his faults and set up to make the most of his strengths. Cantona, RVN, Ronaldo and Rooney all had teams built around them where we focused on getting the best out of them, often at the expense of others. Pogba has the raw talent to match them but we seem to be obsessed with holding him back so he fits in with everyone else.

 

[.Rossi]

Nothing new let's be honest. Our best player but he turns on when he wants. When he's not in the mood it ends like yesterday. Very moody and inconsistent great player.

"Well he plays shit more often than not but, he's a great player"

Right....

 

[POF]

Frankly, we need to build the team around him. We seem reluctant to do it because we're hanging on to this narrative that no player is bigger than the team, but that doesn't mean everybody has to be an equal in that team. We need other players to cover his faults and set up to make the most of his strengths. Cantona, RVN, Ronaldo and Rooney all had teams built around them where we focused on getting the best out of them, often at the expense of others. Pogba has the raw talent to match them but we seem to be obsessed with holding him back so he fits in with everyone else.

That is the complete opposite of what should be done. Pogba is insanely talented but the only thing that matches his talent is his inconsistency. If you build a team around such an inconsistent player, you will have an inconsistent team.

 

[el3mel]

"Well he plays shit more often than not but, he's a great player"

Right....

Both aren't related though. When he's shite it's not because he's a terrible player, it's just him being moody and inconsistent, but still great quality on his day.

 

[11101]

That is the complete opposite of what should be done. Pogba is insanely talented but the only thing that matches his talent is his inconsistency. If you build a team around such an inconsistent player, you will have an inconsistent team.

I suppose you don't need reminding how inconsistent Ronaldo and Cantona were in their early years.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Poor game from him and another one to back up the argument that if Pogba plays badly, then so do United. We are so reliant on him - and Martial in recent weeks, both have poor games vs Palace and nobody else can step up.

 

[.Rossi]

I suppose you don't need reminding how inconsistent Ronaldo and Cantona were in their early years.

Player of the season, players' player of the season, FIFA world player of the year and Ballon D'or winner all by the time he was 23...

Terribly inconsistent that Ronaldo lad. Hopefully Pogba can get to half that level by the time he's 26

 

[POF]

I suppose you don't need reminding how inconsistent Ronaldo and Cantona were in their early years.

Nobody built a team around either of them until they became more consistent.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Poor game from him and another one to back up the argument that if Pogba plays badly, then so do United. We are so reliant on him - and Martial in recent weeks, both have poor games vs Palace and nobody else can step up.

Yeah but with that starting 11 and that setup vs Palace, can you really blame him?

He just doesn't work in a midfield 2, not in a million years. There were passages of play when he had the ball at his feet and was looking for a pass. On the right flank Darmian was nowhere and Lingard was cutting inside too much, so he was forced to play with Martial on the left. Added to that Matic is so slow and drops too deep between our CB's in the construction phase, so Paul remains as a lone CM. Palace noticed that, brought more men on our left side and that nullified Paul completely. It's not really rocket science.

Yes he's inconsistent as fek and quite a kid sometimes, but, if we don't set up the team around him, specifically for his passing attributes and forward runs, we're fecked big time because if you get him out of the game(which Palace did), half the creativity in our team is lost.

For Paul to work alright we need movement up top so he can hit a quick pass and run forward. Until we get to see him in an offensive lineup we can waste our times and talk about him, but that's kind of it.

 

[POF]

Yeah but with that starting 11 and that setup vs Palace, can you really blame him?

He just doesn't work in a midfield 2, not in a million years. There were passages of play when he had the ball at his feet and was looking for a pass. On the right flank Darmian was nowhere and Lingard was cutting inside too much, so he was forced to play with Martial on the left. Added to that Matic is so slow and drops too deep between our CB's in the construction phase, so Paul remains as a lone CM. Palace noticed that, brought more men on our left side and that nullified Paul completely. It's not really rocket science.

Yes he's inconsistent as fek and quite a kid sometimes, but, if we don't set up the team around him, specifically for his passing attributes and forward runs, we're fecked big time because if you get him out of the game(which Palace did), half the creativity in our team is lost.

For Paul to work alright we need movement up top so he can hit a quick pass and run forward. Until we get to see him in an offensive lineup we can waste our times and talk about him, but that's kind of it.

Is this really still a thing? He won the world cup in a midfield 2 only 4 months ago and has had his best performances this season by some way in that position.

 

[doriandun]

Poor game from him and another one to back up the argument that if Pogba plays badly, then so do United. We are so reliant on him - and Martial in recent weeks, both have poor games vs Palace and nobody else can step up.

Why are players hiding?
Why are other players not stepping up,?

Has the club become a place you come to retire, are the players afraid of competition, do they lack fight or grit.

 

[11101]

Nobody built a team around either of them until they became more consistent.

Certainly in Ronaldos case it was a bit of both, past players have said as much. As he improved his consistency we built the team around, and as we built the team around him his consistency improved.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Is this really still a thing? He won the world cup in a midfield 2 only 4 months ago and has had his best performances this season by some way in that position.

WC is something, EPL is another thing. He plays much much better in a midfield 3 for United than in a midfield 2. (at the WC he had players of a much higher quality around him that he has here, so he could play in a midfield 2. Added to this, the France team can hold the ball while at Utd, we can't seem to keep the ball for more than 1 minute)

 

[Foxbatt]

Agree that he has players like Griezmann etc in front of him and Kante alongside him and Varane behind him. That alone will take a lot of pressure of him and France can hold the ball way much better and pass it way much better and defend much better than United.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Frankly, we need to build the team around him. We seem reluctant to do it because we're hanging on to this narrative that no player is bigger than the team, but that doesn't mean everybody has to be an equal in that team. We need other players to cover his faults and set up to make the most of his strengths. Cantona, RVN, Ronaldo and Rooney all had teams built around them where we focused on getting the best out of them, often at the expense of others. Pogba has the raw talent to match them but we seem to be obsessed with holding him back so he fits in with everyone else.

For all his flaws, Mourinho could not have done more to build the team around Pogba, bar forcing all the players to wear “we love you Paul” t-shirts.

He’s tried every fecking formation/team selection under the sun to get the guy performing at a consistently high level. The one and only thing Pogba has done consistently in response is play inconsistently. Midfield two, midfield three, free role on left, whatever. You just don’t know which Paul Pogba will show up. He’s been great and he’a been shit in every set-up we’ve tried.

Also. He'll be 26 before the end of this season. He used up the "yong and lernin" excuse a few years back. At his age he should be considerably more consistent than what we've seen from him in a United (or French NT) shirt.

 

[RedCurry]

Not particularly related to the game against Palace but I'll try to breakdown Pogba's "inconsistency" into simple terms.

When Pogba receives the ball in and around the centre circle, he's world class. He is still a fantastic player when he receives it about 10-20 yards above the centre circle. Anywhere else, he can range from being good to being quite poor.

 

[NoLogo]

Didn't he already admit he only really enjoyed the big games? I think the guy simply has an attitude problem in that he isn't willing to put in 100% against "smaller" teams or simply can't be motivated to do so.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Didn't he already admit he only really enjoyed the big games? I think the guy simply has an attitude problem in that he isn't willing to put in 100% against "smaller" teams or simply can't be motivated to do so.

That doesn't help explain some of the absolutely woeful performances he's put in during big games. Liverpool last season being a good example.

 

[Posh Red]

For all his flaws, Mourinho could not have done more to build the team around Pogba, bar forcing all the players to wear “we love you Paul” t-shirts.

He’s tried every fecking formation/team selection under the sun to get the guy performing at a consistently high level. The one and only thing Pogba has done consistently in response is play inconsistently. Midfield two, midfield three, free role on left, whatever. You just don’t know which Paul Pogba will show up. He’s been great and he’a been shit in every set-up we’ve tried.

Also. He'll be 26 before the end of this season. He used up the "yong and lernin" excuse a few years back. At his age he should be considerably more consistent than what we've seen from him in a United (or French NT) shirt.

I think this works both ways. Not having a clear plan from one week to the next probably isn't helpful for any of the players. I agree Pogba has been really inconsistent, and I feel he is a player that needs defined responsibilities to be useful to us. He is not a player that can control the game and lead the team, but more an 'icing on the cake' type player for me. With the right platform though, he can be lethal.

 

[NoLogo]

That doesn't help explain some of the absolutely woeful performances he's put in during big games. Liverpool last season being a good example.

Why? Just because you are motivated doesn't mean you can't have a bad game if the opposition understands how to take you out of a game.
The difference is that in games like the one against CP he doesn't look like he is even trying. He looks bored and annoyed for the majority of these games and plays like it as well.

 

[Litch]

One of the best players in the league playing for a shit manager who has lost the plot. You aren't going to see the best out of any player working under these conditions.
Those who don't like him, no need to worry cause he'll be history in the summer anyway and he won't be on his own either at this rate.

 

[.Rossi]

One of the best players in the league playing for a shit manager who has lost the plot. You aren't going to see the best out of any player working under these conditions.
Those who don't like him, no need to worry cause he'll be history in the summer anyway and he won't be on his own either at this rate.

You can go with him if you like?

 

[el3mel]

Certainly in Ronaldos case it was a bit of both, past players have said as much. As he improved his consistency we built the team around, and as we built the team around him his consistency improved.

Neither Juve nor France build the team around him. They know how to use him, as a cog in the machine, that's about it.

 

[.Rossi]

So we build a team around a guy, who at best has been average for us, plans to f**k off asap and basically acts the bollix in the media...

Might work in FM but, I can't see it working in real life tbh.......

 

[balaks]

I suppose you don't need reminding how inconsistent Ronaldo and Cantona were in their early years.

Pogba is 25.

 

[11101]

For all his flaws, Mourinho could not have done more to build the team around Pogba, bar forcing all the players to wear “we love you Paul” t-shirts.

He’s tried every fecking formation/team selection under the sun to get the guy performing at a consistently high level. The one and only thing Pogba has done consistently in response is play inconsistently. Midfield two, midfield three, free role on left, whatever. You just don’t know which Paul Pogba will show up. He’s been great and he’a been shit in every set-up we’ve tried.

Also. He'll be 26 before the end of this season. He used up the "yong and lernin" excuse a few years back. At his age he should be considerably more consistent than what we've seen from him in a United (or French NT) shirt.

I think you've answered your own question there. How can we expect him to be consistent when the team and tactics are constantly changing, sometimes even within a single game.

Plus we've got half a squad who like quick, technical passing and half who like to be physical and play balls to run onto. We've got some lightning quick players and some that move like an oil tanker. We're all over the place. We need a style and it makes sense that should be one that fits our best player, its different than saying we should just buy water carriers and let him do everything. Barcelona brought in players who fit Messi and the club's style, they made him look even better still. You see how poor he looks when he's shoved in a ragtag Argentina team.

 

[Camilo]

The idea that our team, including Pogba, can't be arsed to show up and give 100% every week is bollocks in my opinion. It's a lazy excuse. He's a good player, but he's never going to play well in a team as disjointed as ours.

 

[GiddyUp]

I'm not having it. 90 million should buy you a player far more consistent then the Pogba we have seen. He may not have it all falling in to place for him but the best players always force the game in their favor. He is basically our Balotelli. Has the skill but just too immature to apply it 100% on a consistent level.
World Cup aside he is nowhere near the level we want him to be and I doubt we will get that at this club. I still hope he stays and gives it another shot with a new manager, it maybe the making of him in this league but the club will be playing a dangerous game with an ego like Paul's.

 

[RuudTom83]

Football is a team game, rating players individually is only a bit of fun.

Messi would win nothing if he played for Milwall.

Paul is a brilliant footballer and has won medals with Juve & United plus that small competition he won in the summer.

 

[haram]

I think if he plays well, we win that game. We do rely on him a lot.

 

[Jeppers7]

The only consistent players we have are consistently shite....Lukaku, Matic. Literally every other player currently can be described as inconsistent. Until the manager takes responsibility for performances and implements an actual game plan, I don't see that changing. I'm not worried about inconsistent tbh any type of good performance is an achievement....I'm worried about consistently shite

 

[Litch]

You can go with him if you like?

You paying?

 

[Litch]

The idea that our team, including Pogba, can't be arsed to show up and give 100% every week is bollocks in my opinion. It's a lazy excuse. He's a good player, but he's never going to play well in a team as disjointed as ours.

Pogba is not alone but he's an easy scapegoat. Other managers have managed to make world class players better, ours makes them worse.

 

[el3mel]

The problem of asking us to build the team around him is that we already we have the team built around him, and that's one of the reasons why we'e shite, because he's inconsistent as feck thus when he plays poorly we get exposed as we're over reliable on him.

France and Juve knew the trick and used as a cog in the machine with world class players around him.

Till we use him like that and surround with world class players every area the same problem will persist, he will be magnificent in one game and shite in another one, and when that happens we have no one to cover. Quality wise he's great but his inconsistency isn't going to improve so we need tweaks to get as much possible from him and get past the shite games he has from time to time when he decides he's in the mood to play well today.

 

[Litch]

The problem of asking us to build the team around him is that we already we have the team built around him, and that's one of the reasons why we'e shite, because he's inconsistent as feck thus when he plays poorly we get exposed as we're over reliable on him.

France and Juve knew the trick and used as a cog in the machine with world class players around him.

Till we use him like that and surround with worle class players every area the same problem will persist, he will be magnificent in one game and shite in another one, and when that happens we have no one to over. Quality wise he's great but his inconsistency isn't going to improve so we need tweaks to get as much possible from him and get past the shite games he has from time to time when he decides he's in the mood to play well today.

For me Utd have never needed to build teams around one player cause when signing players, the world class or very good prem players was already here. Yes we had very important players but never built a team around them.

Its all about opinions but I generally don't think you can be anything but inconsistent when surrounded by players that realistically wouldn't look out of place in a Everton shirt. If it's about his mood, then there are others on the team suffering from the same condition. I understand it and would agree but I'm waiting for a game that 70% of our team plays well anyway as he's not responsible for their performances.

He has shite games like other high profile players but the difference is a couple of things. First these teams win games which often covers over some poor performances, second they have other world class players so it doesn't matter, third there's also world class players on the bench so you know you can't afford too and last, they have a manager that knows how to get the best out their world class players (including signing them).....

 

[Red_toad]

For me Utd have never needed to build teams around one player cause when signing players, the world class or very good prem players was already here. Yes we had very important players but never built a team around them.

I’ll take it you never watched Robbo play for United. So yes they have and yes they did. Plus add to that we built a team to suit RVN and Ronaldo. Some players are just pure quality and managers tactics and signings are made around such players.