Pogba misses loads of passes and gets dispossessed a lot away from just thinking he's making risky passes. Also David Silva has a key passing rate per game of 2.2, that's pretty high. Pogba has a Key passing rate per game of 1.6 only in comparison.
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Pogba misses loads of passes and gets dispossessed a lot away from just thinking he's making risky passes. Also David Silva has a key passing rate per game of 2.2, that's pretty high. Pogba has a Key passing rate per game of 1.6 only in comparison.
This
If Pogba had Sterling, Aguero, Bernardo Silva and Sané rather than Lukaku, Martial, Rashford and Lingard, he could easily have at least 3.0. And I'm not kidding.
1.6 key passes under Mourinho and with no one making runs is damn good. No wonder he's a world champion and Juventus/Real Madrid are desesperate to sign him.
Simply world class despite the hate and lies
it all goes back to how crap we are as a team. There's zero movement off the ball and no fluidity to our game so it's going to impact those stats big time.
if Pogba played in a team anywhere near as cohesive as Silva his key passes would probably be just as good if not better.
Ramsey, Eriksen, Alli, Caf favourite Neves. In addition to De Bruyne, one of the world’s best attacking midfielders, all below Pogba in terms of passing accuracy.
If Pogba had Sterling, Aguero, Bernardo Silva and Sané rather than Lukaku, Martial, Rashford and Lingard, he could easily have at least 3.0. And I'm not kidding.
1.6 key passes under Mourinho and with statics attackers is great. No wonder he's a world champion and Juventus/Real Madrid are desesperate to sign him.
Simply world class despite the hate
Ok but that's a replay on the point David Silva doesn't do as much risky passing as Pogba so he has higher passing percentage which the poster I replied to was mentioning. David Silva have one of the highest key passes rate per game in PL this season and still has a high passing accuracy, so this excuse doesn't have any kind of base.
But who cares as Pogba die hard fans will only see the stats they like and ignore whatever thing else they see negative about him.
The two Silva's play in the best team in the league under the best coach. If Pogba's pass accuracy is 4 to 6% lower making passes to the likes of Lingard and Lukaku in comparison to the Silva's passing it amongst themselves, and to Aguero, Sane, Stirling etc in a possession based system.
Then Pogba wins for me.
Then Pogba wins for me.
These stats mean nothing at all, especially when intentionally interpreted in a way that makes Paul look bad. I only need a pair of eyes to see he's the best midfielder in the world, carrying his utterly mediocre team.
How about this stat - try to deduct all those points PP won on his own (his goals + his assists) and see where Manchester United are in league table without his individual contribution. Relegation zone, that's where.
How about this stat - try to deduct all those points PP won on his own (his goals + his assists) and see where Manchester United are in league table without his individual contribution. Relegation zone, that's where.
Creative player on high possession team has has 88% and creative player on defensive team got 5% less while carrying other burdens on top I'm very impressed. It's not even that all important- there's some big names listed above which have less accuracy. So even this stat is a positive for him.
Whom ? KDB for City ? He spent most of the season injured. The 2 Silvas were the main attacking force from midfield for City this season and they both combine having high passing percentage and high key passing rate. Just claiming because you're attempting risky passing your passes accuracy will be poor is an excuse with no base on it. You can say any other excuse if you like but this one is so cliche and with no base to support it.
Pogba is a a fantastic player, I’m glad we’ve got him. Hope to see him in red again next season.
Found on Whoscored he's ranked 87th in terms of passing accuracy in PL :
As I said the passes attempted stat is very well driven by the tweet. It means nothing, as a player can attempt 3000 passes, half of them are miss passes.
Why is he posting passing accuracy stats not even comparing him with similar players? I don't get it.
How about the most pertinent fact that they play on a much superior team, with A LOT more movement & individual quality.
Why are you ignoring this and comparing Pogba vs them in a vacuum?
They are defending champions whilst we finished 6th. There's no comparison.
Who else shares the creative burden in our team besides Pogba? Is he supposed to play 1-2's off himself?
The fact he manages COMPARABLE numbers to them, taking into account the respective teams, makes me believe if you were to put Pogba into the City team, he would outperform any of them.
That wasn't the excuse the poster I was replaying to was talking about. He was talking about he makes more risky passing and David Silva doesn't do much difficult passes so he gets higher percentage rate, which I don't agree.
Yeah they have a superior team than us but I don't get the stats posted in the tweet in the previous page. Number of passes attempted and number of shots aren't an indication for anything as they increase the more you player. Effective stats are more important, and they're mixed, some positive and some negative.
With the arrival of James, he's key to unlock defence from deep by Pogba, Pogba can exploit James's frightening pace with his pass to split the defence
Get new CB who could play out from the back comfortably and new RB who can cross better, DM with superior distribution and other CM to be creatives b2b that can take the burden off Pogba. Assuming we got all of them we wanted. Pogba will be more effective, maybe better than his top form from late December to Feb and early 2017/18 season form.
Get new CB who could play out from the back comfortably and new RB who can cross better, DM with superior distribution and other CM to be creatives b2b that can take the burden off Pogba. Assuming we got all of them we wanted. Pogba will be more effective, maybe better than his top form from late December to Feb and early 2017/18 season form.
They attempt different kinds of passes. Pogba will attempt a lot more long balls due to the nature of his team, than the likes of the Silva's who prefer quick interchanges & shorter passes around the box.
It's all about context. You see how De Bruyne attempts a similar amount of long passes & his passing accuracy % is around Pogba's?
That is the De Bruyne from last season by the way, which was regarded as a truly standout season for him.
I agree, those stats originally posted didn't really say much.
Here is an overall comparison between them. Feel free to post your opinion on them.
Pogba comes out favourably when you consider the differences in the level of teams.
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They attempt different kinds of passes. Pogba will attempt a lot more long balls due to the nature of his team, than the likes of the Silva's who prefer quick interchanges & shorter passes around the box.
It's all about context. You see how De Bruyne attempts a similar amount of long passes & his passing accuracy % is around Pogba's? That is the De Bruyne from last season by the way, which was regarded as a truly standout season for him.
I agree, those stat weren't the best selection.
Here is an overall comparison between them. Feel free to post your opinion on them.
Pogba comes out favourably when you consider the differences in the level of teams.
I think the level of criticism he has got this season has been unjustified imo.
Images aren't appearing. Try to re post them and I'll comment on them.
I'm having a hell of a time trying to embed these images. How do i embed them using imgur?
If the stats are in a website bring the link to me and I'll check them.
Wow, i was posting the html into the image function next to the smile when all i had to do was paste the html directly
Wow, i was posting the html into the image function next to the smile when all i had to do was paste the html directly
Good job!
Regarding the stats, yeah you're right in the fact he attempts far more long balls than the others but not sure why, may be because he starts the attack more deeper than the others. It can definitely affect your passing accuracy. Good point.
Pogba scored more goals than KDB last season but KDB didn't score any pen last season though. The other problem is he has the highest shooting percentage among the other midfielders in the league this season with 105 but he only scored 6 goals from open play. It indicates his shooting isn't that accurate, which is a problem.
Yeah, we start a lot deeper than City & play a lot more long balls than them in general. He side-switches for Young a lot (mostly wasted) and our main attack is the long-ball over the top/down the sides for Rashford/Lukaku to run onto.
The team has been dysfunctional as a whole. I don't see the problem with his shooting output really. I don't think he's selfish, if people were in dangerous positions, i do think he would pass instead.
Remember in his first season where he would have had a lot of goals but kept hitting the frame all the time? You kind of have to shoot a lot, as there's a lot of variance involved in it.
I love him, he's a great player.
We need to be not only keeping him, but adding quality around him.
His first 1.5 seasons here were pretty good imo. I started getting disappointed with him later on. This season he has been world class in 3 months under Ole but rest of the season was hit and miss.
Not saying he's selfish but that he needs to improve his shooting accuracy.
You are right in the point that the team is dysfunctional and fecked up anyway, but I believe Poga can achieve more if he improves his inconsistency. He's quality, that was never his problem. He just needs to show it more often. Sure the team being dysfunctional can affect this but he also shares part of the blame.
He had an impressive partnership with Zlatan. I agree, I don't think he's been the same since he left. He had someone who was just as spontaneous as he is.
I'm not sure whether it's him being inaccurate or just variance to blame for his shooting accuracy. He has seemed pretty accurate in general to me.
He came back from the World Cup without much rest. He had 1/3 of usual rest (25 days), which is nothing when you consider the intensity he likes to play at. I think that definitely played a part.
Then you add the mood around the club. It was a write-off of a season from pre-season, when Mourinho started the negativeness, telling the fans to keep away, tour is meaningless etc.
I remember his form going downhill after PSG, but that was mostly because Ole moved him deeper, because the team was struggling, with everyone dropping like flies. We have seen enough times, that deep CM is not his best position.
After that, he never got going again as the team didn't have the same intensity as before. I'm not just making that up am I? You remember too?
I agree he has his share of blame, they all do after that season. I'm just hoping to have no drama during pre-season, then we can see the real Pogba more consistently next season.
I dont disagree much with any of your points. He was phenomenal when Ole got the job. His performance dropped massively alongside the whole team after that PSG game till the end of the season. Let's hope if he's staying, he and his teammates are going to put a much better season next year and better consistency.
Thanks for the decent discussion.
Good thing to end a discussion on good terms with each other.I'm on the same page. That's exactly what i'm hoping for too.I dont disagree much with any of your points. He was phenomenal when Ole got the job. His performance dropped massively alongside the whole team after that PSG game till the end of the season. Let's hope if he's staying, he and his teammates are going to put a much better season next year and better consistency.
Thanks for the decent discussion.
Thanks for the discussion too. I enjoyed it. Yeah we're all Utd fans at the end of the day. There should never be any animosity between us.
Well, for me, along side Shaw and Martial, he was our best player in the first half of the season.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. If in his poor games he still played like he gave a shit then he wouldn’t get half the criticism.
If we make the right signings this summer, I don't think he and Martial will be marked out of the game next season, which is essentially what every team does to us.
Exactly
I'm french so i still don't understand what United is doing with pogba.
Most of the time he played as a 8 on the left of a 3 mens midfield with the point down.
But french people know that he can't play as a 8, because they tried many time on the left and on the right, and every time it was bad or not anything special, so why United is tring to force thing this way ?
Do people realise that playing pogba as a 8 as almost cost pogba his place in the starting 11 of the french national team ?
Listen, pogba is an excellent yet very weird player, because he is athletic (tall, fast and strong) and play well as a 10 or as a 6 but can't play as a 8 despite having all the abilities on paper to do it.
When United people (fans and coaching staff) realise that and adjust the formation (4-2-3-1) to his strengh we will see the good pogba.
Pogba can't play as a 8 because he can't switch his mindset fast enought to keep up with the play and also because he has bad speed endurance.
To explain it more simply, as a 8 when an attack break down he need time to realise that he should track back and when he defend he also need time to realise that he should move / change position to provide a passing option for his teamates.
Play him like the french national team do, as a 6 alongside another one and a 10 in front of him, then you will see him contain the opposition well (outmuscule player, tackle, retain the ball, spraying precise long pass to the wing and put some long range shot here and there)
Or
Play him like Juventus do, as a 10 in front of two 6 behind him, then you will see him dominate opposition well (nice dangerous key pass, strong shot on goal and aerial threat)
I personnaly like him most as a 6, because he provide more control to the game this way.
If we don't sign anyone I would like to see him with Fred as a 6 with Lingard as a 10, Martial and Alexis on the wings and Rash or Lukaku as a 9.
That will be way better than the joke we have all seen this year
I'm french so i still don't understand what United is doing with pogba.
Most of the time he played as a 8 on the left of a 3 mens midfield with the point down.
But french people know that he can't play as a 8, because they tried many time on the left and on the right, and every time it was bad or not anything special, so why United is tring to force thing this way ?
Do people realise that playing pogba as a 8 as almost cost pogba his place in the starting 11 of the french national team ?
Listen, pogba is an excellent yet very weird player, because he is athletic (tall, fast and strong) and play well as a 10 or as a 6 but can't play as a 8 despite having all the abilities on paper to do it.
When United people (fans and coaching staff) realise that and adjust the formation (4-2-3-1) to his strengh we will see the good pogba.
Pogba can't play as a 8 because he can't switch his mindset fast enought to keep up with the play and also because he has bad speed endurance.
To explain it more simply, as a 8 when an attack break down he need time to realise that he should track back and when he defend he also need time to realise that he should move / change position to provide a passing option for his teamates.
Play him like the french national team do, as a 6 alongside another one and a 10 in front of him, then you will see him contain the opposition well (outmuscule player, tackle, retain the ball, spraying precise long pass to the wing and put some long range shot here and there)
Or
Play him like Juventus do, as a 10 in front of two 6 behind him, then you will see him dominate opposition well (nice dangerous key pass, strong shot on goal and aerial threat)
I personnaly like him most as a 6, because he provide more control to the game this way.
If we don't sign anyone I would like to see him with Fred as a 6 with Lingard as a 10, Martial and Alexis on the wings and Rash or Lukaku as a 9.
That will be way better than the joke we have all seen this year
Funnily enough, all these players are as inconsistent as Pogba, everyone knows it and no one cares because during the course of a season they all deliver, Pogba included.
Nonsense.
Pogba is unshakable in the french NT. He has 67 caps ( 64 as starter ) in 6 years. It's simple, when he's fit, he plays no matter his club form.
Even when he was at his lowest while Tolisso and Rabiot were doing great things with Bayern and PSG, Pogba was still starting despite the fact that the french medias were against him...
Pogba is the first name on the team sheet for Deschamps. And his position didn't change much since 3 years ( midfield 2 mainly with Kante ).
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Exactly
Deschamps protected him because the french medias was putting pressure for Tolisso.
No one was under more pressure than Pogba in the national team for a change.
I remenber Deschamps trying Matuidi, Pogba as 8 with Kante as a 6 and he played badly.
Pogba his an excellent deep playmaker he should play as a 6 and never as a 8.
It work well for the french national team, so i'm just saying we should try this instead of force him out of position just to complain that he is not some Gerrard or Yaya Toure like he was supposed to be, because he never was for Juv or for the national team.
@Jib already addressed the French NT, I'd like to correct this statement. PP never played "as a 10 in front of two 6 behind him" back in his Juve days. Under Conte, he was deployed in 3-5-2 with a regista behind (Pirlo) and aggressive box-to-box midfielder next to him (Vidal, Marchisio). When Allegri took over, he switched to 4-4-2 diamond and again - Pirlo as regista, box-to-box on the right (Marchisio) and a #10 in front (Vidal actually played there). In both of these formations, PP basically played the same role... A left-sided attacking CM with freedom to roam, not really a #10. More of a wide, attacking #8.
The essential thing here is that Paul was never asked to do everything on his own like he's at Manchester United, because Juve had specialist midfielders for playmaking and workrate, leaving PP to do his own thing. And he's done that brilliantly, by far the best player in that Juve team, carrying them to league titles and a CL final despite his young age.
That being said, I absolutely agree with your suggestion. I'd love to see Paul deployed as proper #10 in a 4-2-3-1 with proper double pivot to cover for him. Kante and Ndombele preferably, both are Pogba-proven. Another thing I'd do is to take Rashford's number 10 (the boy has done nothing to deserve it) and give it to PP.
There were question marks before the Euro, I wouldn't say that he was in grave danger but he wasn't in a comfortable position. It's the Euro that cemented his role and stopped speculations.
On what planet are De Bruyne and Erikson anywhere near as inconsistent as Pogba?
I prefer him as a 6 because this way he will always be involved if we have possession or not and be able to control the game.
As a 10 he will not see the ball if the two 6 are out runned.
I remenber some United matches when he played as a 10 and was forced to drop too deep because the midfield was poor.
I'm very sorry for his offensive stats, but we need him more in the mid than up front, just like the french national team.
Yes, this is what i was talking about.
He should thanks Deschamps for trusting him in this particular moment and for the formation change too.
Nb : Sorry, out of post for the day
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I hope we keep him and he dominates the league next season. It's so frustrating because you know he has it in him.
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