[jesperjaap]

Why are so many in this thread comparing Pogba to some of the greats over the last 15 years or so? Paul Pogba may have a lot of ability and physical attributes, but lets be honest, he doesnt deserve to even be mentioned in the same sentence as any of them, its ludicrous.

For me he was good at Juventus, yet still not super consistent or the decisive match winner and under whelemd a lot of the games I saw him in. For us he has had a handful of wonderful performances, far too many 6 out of 10s though to deserve recognition. I thought he was good for France in the world cup but his performances were way overhyped, maybe as he had been so poor for us before it? He was fantastic for three months for us and even underwhelming he has still been arguably our best outfield player in his time here.....which shows just how poor we have been.

If I were to compare him to a player it would be David Beckham, in that I cant remember a player so hyped for his status off the field as much as on it. The big difference being Beckhams love for the club and the 100% effort he put in up and down the flank, game in game out he was a 7 out of 10 or above....exactly what Pogba is missing.

People saying you just cant replace what Pogba does and the type of player he is....why would we want to? A £150m player that averages 6 out of 10 for probaly 60-70% of the games he plays in isnt world class at all.

There are two options, keep Pogba and build the team around him, as with better players around him he has more freedom to roam and show his abilities OR sell Pogba and build a new midfield with the proceeds.......I know which i would choose

 

[Siddharth]

I want Pogba to stay. Even if takes making him the highest earner. I want United to overhaul that bloody defence this Summer no matter what. Two fullback and 2 Centrebacks.

 

[Keefy18]

I missed yesterday's game, but looking at his performance data it seems he done quite well actually and was let down by others.

I mean he created 4 chances, what happened with the 4 chances? I believe Rashford fluffed his lines again? What of the other 3 chances that were created?

Seems like he put in an effort defensively and offensively... Again, I didn't see the game so I'm not saying he did but looking at this it would seem he was least to blame for yesterday.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I missed yesterday's game, but looking at his performance data it seems he done quite well actually and was let down by others.

I mean he created 4 chances, what happened with the 4 chances? I believe Rashford fluffed his lines again? What of the other 3 chances that were created?

Seems like he put in an effort defensively and offensively... Again, I didn't see the game so I'm not saying he did but looking at this it would seem he was least to blame for yesterday.

The Rashford chance was a great pass but still incredibly difficult for Rashford to do anything with, it was a 70 yard pass coming over his shoulder than spun away from him when it bounced, he did well to get it so close to going in.

I think another was a simple pass to Martial who then did a good dribble but spooned it wide. Can’t remember the others.

Those stats are very misleading though. 100% of tackles won, he made 1 tackle and 0 interceptions.

100% of dribbles completed. He made 1 dribble.

He and Martial also linked up pretty horrifically, numerous times they failed to read each other’s runs and passed to an Everton player.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

I missed yesterday's game, but looking at his performance data it seems he done quite well actually and was let down by others.

I mean he created 4 chances, what happened with the 4 chances? I believe Rashford fluffed his lines again? What of the other 3 chances that were created?

Seems like he put in an effort defensively and offensively... Again, I didn't see the game so I'm not saying he did but looking at this it would seem he was least to blame for yesterday.

See stats like this are misleading. "100% tackles won" - didn't he only make one tackle?

 

[van Nistelrooy]

Even more nonsense. Without Pogba, United would be completely out of Europe this season. 9 Assists aren't a "few great passes and assists" that's more than "World Class DeBruyne" You are scapegoating the guy.

De Bruyne has missed 26 games this season through injury!

Pogba has missed 1. He has played far more games so should be outnumbering De Bruyne with ease.

You are making excuses for the guy.

 

[kouroux]

Why are so many in this thread comparing Pogba to some of the greats over the last 15 years or so? Paul Pogba may have a lot of ability and physical attributes, but lets be honest, he doesnt deserve to even be mentioned in the same sentence as any of them, its ludicrous.

For me he was good at Juventus, yet still not super consistent or the decisive match winner and under whelemd a lot of the games I saw him in. For us he has had a handful of wonderful performances, far too many 6 out of 10s though to deserve recognition. I thought he was good for France in the world cup but his performances were way overhyped, maybe as he had been so poor for us before it? He was fantastic for three months for us and even underwhelming he has still been arguably our best outfield player in his time here.....which shows just how poor we have been.

If I were to compare him to a player it would be David Beckham, in that I cant remember a player so hyped for his status off the field as much as on it. The big difference being Beckhams love for the club and the 100% effort he put in up and down the flank, game in game out he was a 7 out of 10 or above....exactly what Pogba is missing.

People saying you just cant replace what Pogba does and the type of player he is....why would we want to? A £150m player that averages 6 out of 10 for probaly 60-70% of the games he plays in isnt world class at all.

There are two options, keep Pogba and build the team around him, as with better players around him he has more freedom to roam and show his abilities OR sell Pogba and build a new midfield with the proceeds.......I know which i would choose

There is a third easy one too, improve the whole squad and team play so that Pogba works in a well oiled and functionning machine without having those ridiculous expectations from him, like at Juventus or for France

 

[Canagel]

You are either a relation to Pogba or completely clueless about football.

Overall, Pogba has been absolutely dreadful since he returned here. A few great passes and an assist here and there, but not much else. His goals are mostly from penalties and he's even missed a few of them!

The most overrated, excused, lazy player I've seen in all my many years of watching football.

 

[el3mel]

What ? The whole team, DDG included, has dropped a level and that has little to do with Pogba influencing them to become worse. It ain't rocket science, if you add several good individual performances then the collective one will be much better. You're giving him way too much importance there


It's as simple as that. It's crazy how now Pogba is being blamed for the whole team becoming shit.

So they all dropped in terms of performance but that doesn't include him ?

I don't remember saying Pogba is influencing them. I'm saying that his poor performance is on him and blaming the other players is ridiculous considering he had great matches previously playing with them and if you say their performance has dropped then there is no reason to believe his performance hasn't dropped as bad as them.

 

[NinjaFletch]

See stats like this are misleading. "100% tackles won" - didn't he only make one tackle?

Yes, and he only made 1 dribble.

 

[kouroux]

So they all dropped in terms of performance but that doesn't include him ?

I don't remember saying Pogba is influencing them. I'm saying that his poor performance is on him and blaming the other players is ridiculous considering he had great matches previously playing with them and if you say their performance has dropped then there is no reason to believe his performance hasn't dropped as bad as them.

I did say the whole team which included Pogba of course.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Your forgetting the first 14 games we went unbeaten when those same forwards you talk about were scoring for fun and the goals have now dried up. Ok Pogba has not been playing regularly in the same position but he still should have a big influence on every game. He is world class when he gives his best but this is not on a regular basis and lately not at all. He has been got at whilst on international duty with Real players and Zidane and his head has been turned imo.

I definitely agree that his effort levels yo-yo but I don't buy into the forwards being good enough. "Scoring for fun" is quite a liberal use of the expression as well given how far behind our strikers are to the best PL guys (Lukaku has 12) and we're miles behind the best players: Aguero, Salah and Auba on 19.

what makes the stats more damning is that Lukaku has 0 assists whereas as the three above have 8, 7 and 5 respectively.

 

[luke511]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...er-united-display-at-everton-was-disrepectful

Surprising interview, doesn't sound like he wants to leave. Maybe he's looking pissed off because he's as sick as us of the sight of Phil Jones and the amount of mediocrity in the squad.

 

[haram]

Pogba was not the problem against Everton. In fact that game just made it even more clear to me that he is not the problem.

 

[cletus7]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...er-united-display-at-everton-was-disrepectful

Surprising interview, doesn't sound like he wants to leave. Maybe he's looking pissed off because he's as sick as us of the sight of Phil Jones and the amount of mediocrity in the squad.

His body language speaks much, much louder than anything you’re reading/hearing there. It’s pretty clear that what he’s saying to Sky isn’t what he’s saying to his agent.

 

[royboy16]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...er-united-display-at-everton-was-disrepectful
Shouldnt the Manchester United captain be giving that interview and not our poster boy?

 

[TMDaines]

Just gonna leave this here. Pogba the only one able to get anything going whatsoever. People are literally insane if they are think is the primary, secondary or tertiary cause of our woes.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...er-united-display-at-everton-was-disrepectful
Shouldnt the Manchester United captain be giving that interview and not our poster boy?

Valencia refuses to speak English in public and that is one of the primary reasons why his appointment was an absolute joke.

 

[Betson]

Pogba was not the problem against Everton. In fact that game just made it even more clear to me that he is not the problem.

Nobody is saying Pogba is the only problem or even near it , but this is the Paul Pogba thread so naturally the posts here will be about him.

He may be performing better than some of those around him but still no denying that as our marquee signing he is still under-performing. It is natural to expect higher standards of your 100M signing. Standards overall that he ha snot met consistently enough.

 

[haram]

Nobody is saying Pogba is the only problem or even near it , but this is the Paul Pogba thread so naturally the posts here will be about him.

He may be performing better than some of those around him but still no denying that as our marquee signing he is still under-performing. It is natural to expect higher standards of your 100M signing. Standards overall that he ha snot met consistently enough.

Every aspect of our play, he is burdened with. He cannot do it all but in this team he has to. That’s why he looks inconsistent and that’s why even though he has his flaws that I wont blame him.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Wow, didn't expect this from him. He literally said that some players should go. Who were his targets? Matic? Smalling?

 

[Smores]

Just gonna leave this here. Pogba the only one able to get anything going whatsoever. People are literally insane if they are think is the primary, secondary or tertiary cause of our woes.

This seems to be a common counter argument on here but surely all of you making it realise how ridiculous it and how it in no way absolves Pogba?

Because Pogba isn't worse than a converted winger playing fullback or established failures like Jones we can't criticise him? Nah

He's been rubbish since played deeper again and most of the why seems to be mentality to me. No excusing poor mentality at this club

 

[TMDaines]

This seems to be a common counter argument on here but surely all of you making it realise how ridiculous it and how it in no way absolves Pogba?

Because Pogba isn't worse than a converted winger playing fullback or established failures like Jones we can't criticise him? Nah

He's been rubbish since played deeper again and most of the why seems to be mentality to me. No excusing poor mentality at this club

If you think Pogba is only as good Jones or Young then so be it. I’m not going to be the one to waste time convincing you otherwise.

 

[TwoSheds]

Good lad, back your comments up with a performance now please.

 

[Raw]

Just gonna leave this here. Pogba the only one able to get anything going whatsoever. People are literally insane if they are think is the primary, secondary or tertiary cause of our woes.


Valencia refuses to speak English in public and that is one of the primary reasons why his appointment was an absolute joke.

Every single time I see one of these average position pictures, we always have like two attacking players really close together and feck all on the wings. Movement in this side is piss poor and I can't blame Pogba for not being able to find good enough options with shite like this.

 

[Steven-UK]

Every single time I see one of these average position pictures, we always have like two attacking players really close together and feck all on the wings. Movement in this side is piss poor and I can't blame Pogba for not being able to find good enough options with shite like this.

But you can blame him for fecking about on the ball far too long trying to make himself look good, instead of playing the right pass, at the right time to a team mate. Stop giving the lad excuses, I have watched ever game he has played for us (in the flesh, not on YouTube) and he really isn't all that. Sure, he has glimpses of brilliance (very few); but It's all about him, and not the team, and that is not going to change anytime soon.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I mean, the guy has contributed 30 goals / assists this season. He clearly isn't the problem. Imagine having to play with fecking Matic in midfield every week, it must be seriously depressing.

 

[Sayros]

But you can blame him for fecking about on the ball far too long trying to make himself look good, instead of playing the right pass, at the right time to a team mate. Stop giving the lad excuses, I have watched ever game he has played for us (in the flesh, not on YouTube) and he really isn't all that. Sure, he has glimpses of brilliance (very few); but It's all about him, and not the team, and that is not going to change anytime soon.

I think you're seeing what you want to see. Look at the movement around Pogba when he's dwelling on the ball. Sure, some times he simply loses it out of trying to do too much, but that's far more rare than there simply isn't any movement around him and he's being double-teamed. Pogba could play it safe all day, and this team wouldn't get anywhere. He's the only one who will consistently have the ability to create something for his team. You don't want to give him any excuse but you're completely forgiving the atrocious lack of movement from the rest of the team. It's a bit disingenuous.

 

[Amar__]

He was shit for about 12 games up until Everton and he was playing worse than his teammates in midfield, let alone some other players. The excuse that he is playing with shite around him is always back around when he has one good game after few bad, and his fans are blaming it on the others. You can use that excuse if he is constantly overperforming his teammates, but that's really not the case. He is probably more inconsistent with his performances than any other player around him. Especially in bigger games where he was actually the one who let his teammates down ever since he was signed for us, not the other way around.

 

[TMDaines]

Every single time I see one of these average position pictures, we always have like two attacking players really close together and feck all on the wings. Movement in this side is piss poor and I can't blame Pogba for not being able to find good enough options with shite like this.

I think Ole should have drawn a lot more criticism for the setup against Everton. On the left we had Dalot and Martial who are both right-footed and neither of whom were able or willing to run down the flank and cross. On the right we had Lindelof and Rashford, neither of whom is suit to stretching that flank and crossing either. Pogba then was our second most advanced player often pressing up top with Lukaku. Where were we supposed to threaten Everton with that setup?

 

[shahzy]

But you can blame him for fecking about on the ball far too long trying to make himself look good, instead of playing the right pass, at the right time to a team mate

So you've just answered your own question without realising it. The post you quoted literally shows you that the forwards are completely dysfunctional and dont make runs. If your team mates aren't making runs what are you going to do when you're in midfield? You wait and try to make some space for yourself which is risky and can lead to you losing the ball..

So ask yourself this, is he trying to make himself look good consistently or is he trying to take people on because he has no options infront of him and thus losing the ball more often? For what its worth i do think he tries to make himself look good here and there but the majority is due to the pathetic supporting cast

 

[Keefy18]

The Rashford chance was a great pass but still incredibly difficult for Rashford to do anything with, it was a 70 yard pass coming over his shoulder than spun away from him when it bounced, he did well to get it so close to going in.

I think another was a simple pass to Martial who then did a good dribble but spooned it wide. Can’t remember the others.

Those stats are very misleading though. 100% of tackles won, he made 1 tackle and 0 interceptions.

100% of dribbles completed. He made 1 dribble.

He and Martial also linked up pretty horrifically, numerous times they failed to read each other’s runs and passed to an Everton player.

See stats like this are misleading. "100% tackles won" - didn't he only make one tackle?

I've no idea, I was just asking about his general performance.

I've chat to a few mates and they all said he was decent, only one who put an effort in.

Not going to state matter of fact myself as I've not seen the game, thankfully!

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I've no idea, I was just asking about his general performance.

I've chat to a few mates and they all said he was decent, only one who put an effort in.

Not going to state matter of fact myself as I've not seen the game, thankfully!

He wasn't as bad as some but to say he played well is a stretch. That was a lovely ball to Rashford but also played some terrible passes and ambled about looking lost at times. Its fair to say that he was one of the least worst performers.

 

[Keefy18]

He wasn't as bad as some but to say he played well is a stretch. That was a lovely ball to Rashford but also played some terrible passes and ambled about looking lost at times. Its fair to say that he was one of the least worst performers.

Only so much a single player can do, we could drop Messi into our side tomorrow for City and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

 

[Loublaze]

He was shit for about 12 games up until Everton and he was playing worse than his teammates in midfield, let alone some other players. The excuse that he is playing with shite around him is always back around when he has one good game after few bad, and his fans are blaming it on the others. You can use that excuse if he is constantly overperforming his teammates, but that's really not the case. He is probably more inconsistent with his performances than any other player around him. Especially in bigger games where he was actually the one who let his teammates down ever since he was signed for us, not the other way around.

None of our midfielders have really stood out in the last 12 games prior to Everton. Its pretty mixed but looking at the CAF ratings and whoscored during this time the biggest positive has been McTominay's form. Against Everton Pogba created more chances than anyone else on the United team, but McTominay was the highest rated midfielder on the Caf with a 3.7 average to Pogba's 2.9. Whoscored gave McTominay a 5.76 rating and Pogba a 6.66. Fred got 5.96

12. Barcelona 3-0 Man utd- McTominay was the highest rated midfielder and voted MOTM by the Caf with 41% of the votes and a 5.3 average rating, Pogba was second with 20% of the votes and an average rating of 3.7. Whoscored gave him a 6.57 rating and gave McTominay a 6.39 rating

11. Man utd 2-1 West Ham- Voted MOTM by Caf with 41% of the votes. Fred came in second with 27% of the votes. Pogba was given a 8.01 whoscored rating and Fred was given 6.14. Pogba scored two penalties yes, but he was our best player in another overall poor team performance

10. Man Utd 0-1 Barcelona McTominay and Fred outvoted him on the Caf ratings. Whoscored gave him 6.24, McTominay 6.99 and Fred 6.34

9. Wolves 2-1 United- McTominay MOTM on Caf, Fred second highest rated midfielder. Whoscored had McTominay at 7.92, Fred at 5.99 and Pogba 6.93

8. Man utd 2-1 Watford- Highest rated midfielder on Caf with Herrera and Matic behind him, Whoscored had Pogba at 6.88, Herrera at 6.67 and Matic 5.48

7. Wolves 2-1 Man utd lowest rated midfielder on Caf behind Herrera and Matic. No whoscored ratings for FA cup games

6. Arsenal 2-0- Fred highest rated midfielder on Caf, Pogba was second above Matic. Fred got 6.59 on whoscored, Pogba 6.38 and Matic 6.47

5. Man utd 3-2 Southampton Pereira was highest rated midfielder. Pogba and McTominay voted joint second best on Caf. Pereira was 7.51 on whoscored, Pogba was 6.05 and McT 6.87

4. Palace 1-3 united- McTominay best rated on Caf, Pogba second. McT got 7.12 on whocored, Pogba 7.29 and Fred 6.92

3. Man Utd 0-0 Liverpool Pogba best rated midfielder on Caf. Whoscored gave McTominay 6.92. Pogba 7.06 and Herrera 6.28. McTominay did manage 1% more votes than Pogba in MOTM vote

2. Chelsea 0-2 Man utd- Hererra best rated and MOTM- Hererra's average rating was 8.8, Pogba's was 8.4. No whoscored FA Cup game. both players were excellent that day


1. Man utd 0-2 PSG - Worse rated midfielder on Caf behind Herrera and Matic, Whoscored gave him 5.35, Herrera 6.65 and Matic 7.45

15 goals and 11 assists to date this season, surely most chances created and some from early stars from this season show he was covering more grass than most of the players. No one else in midfield is contributing anywhere near close in productivity. This doesn't excuse his recent slump but as you can see, he's still had some high or highest rated games in the last 12

 

[Keefy18]

Work rate data of Pogba vs Herrera & Lingard

Pogba covers 1.5KM more than Herrera per mins played
Pogba covers 2.2KM more than Lingard per mins played

If Pogba is supposed to be a lazy cnut as about 99% of our fan base claim, what does that make the supposed "work horses" in our team?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Only so much a single player can do, we could drop Messi into our side tomorrow for City and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

It would make a huge difference.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Work rate data of Pogba vs Herrera & Lingard

Pogba covers 1.5KM more than Herrera per mins played
Pogba covers 2.2KM more than Lingard per mins played

If Pogba is supposed to be a lazy cnut as about 99% of our fan base claim, what does that make the supposed "work horses" in our team?

You've got that completely wrong.

Pogba covers 306km in 2559 minutes = 0.119km/min = 10.7km/90
Lingard covers 193km in 1496 minutes = 0.129km/min = 11.6km/90
Hererra covers 166km in 1277 minutes = 0.13 km/min = 11.7km/90

So Lingard and Hererra, on average, run 1km further than Pogba in every match they play.

Which is not surprising but there you go.

 

[Keefy18]

You've got that completely wrong.

Pogba covers 306km in 2559 minutes = 0.119km/min = 10.7km/90
Lingard covers 193km in 1496 minutes = 0.129km/min = 11.6km/90
Hererra covers 166km in 1277 minutes = 0.13 km/min = 11.7km/90

So Lingard and Hererra, on average, run 1km further than Pogba in every match they play.

Which is not surprising but there you go.

Nope! Look at the final line...

Pogba runs 9.87 on avg per match
Herrera runs 8.33 on avg per match
Lingard run 7.75 on avg per match

If you've issues with the numbers take it up with Opta, the official stat provider for PL.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Nope! Look at the final line...

Pogba runs 9.87 on avg per match
Herrera runs 8.33 on avg per match
Lingard run 7.75 on avg per match

If you've issues with the numbers take it up with Opta, the official stat provider for PL.

Are they counting the subs apps as 1 game? Better to do it like Pogue has, per 90 minutes.

edit: yes they are.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Are they counting the subs apps as 1 game? Better to do it like Pogue has, per 90 minutes.

Can only assume that's what they did. Which is, obviously, misleading.