[BiggusCrickus]

Him and Lingard need to go. We need to Purge the culture in the club and it comes from these two jokers . Sell Pogba to Madrid and throw Lingard in with him as a bonus. Until we get rid of these Clowns Utd will never be on top again

 

[JPRouve]

Probably because everyone knows that Lukaku is shite and has no future at the club, while Pogba will forever split the fan base and people will always think his ability can bring a much better player than the one we see on a weekly basis.

Funnily enough I totally get that because that's pretty much how a lot of french felt about Pogba for a long time. But the reality is that I was wrong because I used to see him as more than he is, I did the same thing with Benzema, basically France wasn't balanced in midfield and attack which created a situation where Benzema and Pogba were expected to do things that didn't go together, for example Benzema would be the main creator but with no one at the finishing while Pogba would be either the muscle in midfield or the creator. Things changed when Griezmann and Kanté appeared because they added the things that France was lacking an other midfielder that could share midfield duties at a high level and a top class attacker, unfortunately Benzema didn't benefit from it but a lesser player like Giroud is probably going to end his career as the second best goalscorer for France.

 

[mancan92]

It's so stupid to me that people are all on pogba when you literally had a team of players who looked like they had never played football. But he was the only one out there who looked worth anything.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

It's so stupid to me that people are all on pogba when you literally had a team of players who looked like they had never played football. But he was the only one out there who looked worth anything.

A world class player being slightly less shit that young kids and over the hillers is nothing to be celebrating.

 

[Member 109952]

So when we win he's carrying the team as it's because of him but when we lose we're not allowed to expect him to carry the team?

He's our most expensive player ever, the expectation is there because of that. The expectation is there because of the hype around him.

That expectation is that when he comes up against a team like Everton, he makes the difference and we win. If he can't do that then why did we pay so much for him? Is he not supposed to be one of the best players in the world? They don't always stand up and be counted when the chips are down but they usually stand up at least once. When did Pogba last do that for us when we needed him?

Meanwhile, when the chips aren't down and we just need him to run the game like he's supposed to, he blows hot and cold.

He can be brilliant. He's unbelievable when he's on fire. We don't see it anywhere like enough, nor do we see it against any big team.

We judge his attitude because it was on show today. It was on show against Barça. It was on show against PSG when he got sent off. It's on show all the time when he doesn't get his own way. He's a diva, it's not like it's hidden away, it's in plain sight.

And the difference between Pogba now and Ronaldo in 03-05 is Ronaldo was less than 20 years old then. Pogba is 26. It's about time he started showing consistency in his performances otherwise we'll never see it and he'll always be seen the way we see him. Talented but just not worth it.

You can't build your team around someone like that. He was bought, at the price he cost too, so we could build our team around him.

We could sell him for a chunk of money and buy a complete midfield full of players that fit together instead. Sometimes ridding yourself of your best player makes you more reliant on the team as a whole and that reaps rewards. I think we're there with Pogba. If we're as reliant on him as you say to win, then he's not good enough that we couldn't adopt a different approach with a bunch of different players in a cohesive unit instead of one individual.

If we can get 2-3 quality players for the price of Pogba, I'd be up for it, but you wouldn't get much quality is the problem. Declan Rice would cost £50m.. which is more then half the fee you'd get for Pogba.

I think, in my view, the biggest discrepancy I see on this forum is the type of player Pogba is and the type of player people expect him to be.

Carrying on the Ronaldo analogy, he became the player he became because he's a forward. Pogba isn't. He's at his best, as he is with France, and Juve prior, when he has good players in front of him. For France he racks up assists, because he has Mbappe, Giroud and Griezmann constantly making runs, and Matuidi pushing forward too. Who does he have at United? The only one that makes runs is Rashford, and he's been fluffing his chances today and in the last match against Barca when assisted by Pogba. We won the game against Tottenham a few months back because Rashford burried Pogba's assist. Other then that, who is there? Martial has 0 movement, likewise Lukaku. Lingard you pass the ball to and you'd expect to be defending again 5 seconds later. Our midfield isn't much better - Mctominay, Fred, Herrera and Matic aren't close to Matuidi or Kante (maybe Herrera ocassionaly is).

True Pogba can score the occasional banger, but it shouldn't be solely down to him. If he was terrible for France - then people would have a point, but he isn't. Imo, we need to stop expecting him to be Ronaldo, and upgrade our front 3. Pogba's biggest strength imo is his playmaking - but you can't expect to do anything with dross up front. Sancho would be one of the first players I'd sign - can easily beat a man, and links up well every match with Reus and they've assisted each other loads. I think him and Pogba can easily form a similar link. I get that Pogba's not lighting the world on fire - but it's a lot easier to play with the likes of Sancho or Mbappe than it is Lingard, Mata or Rashford on the RW.

 

[mancan92]

A world class player being slightly less shit that young kids and over the hillers is nothing to be celebrating.

It's not celebrating but football is a team game. No one player will allow the rest of the players to perform. But to take it out on the one player doing anything is beyond stupid.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

It's not celebrating but football is a team game. No one player will allow the rest of the players to perform. But to take it out on the one player doing anything is beyond stupid.

No ones talking it out on one player. Pogba is being held to account for his being shit, no one else’s.

 

[Adnan]

Him being less shit then most of the others doesnt mean he played well. If the team averaged a 2 and he got a 4, he still played shit and you still expect way more from him on an individual level.

If the players around you are playing so poorly, then Pogba will also suffer. Pogba did fine considering that was possibly the worst I've ever seen us play.

 

[Hugh Jass]

He has played for us 130 times but the number of times you would watch him and think 'wow, we have a world class player here' barely runs into double figures.

Like it or not, he was meant to be our 'Galactico' signing but he is a much more Gareth Bale than Zinedine Zidane

Good point.

 

[VorZakone]

Pogba is not the biggest problem. Not even close. Just check United's win percentage with and without Pogba.

 

[mancan92]

No ones talking it out on one player. Pogba is being held to account for his being shit, no one else’s.

But he wasn't shit. He was the only half decent player in a sea of crap.

I know people are desperate for a scapegoat but out of all the dross that plays for us. Pogba is not the one.

 

[kouroux]

Pogba is not the biggest problem. Not even close. Just check United's win percentage with and without Pogba.

Somehow this will be ignored by a lot of people.

 

[Adnan]

Pogba is not the biggest problem. Not even close. Just check United's win percentage with and without Pogba.

This..

 

[Reddy Rederson]

But he wasn't shit. He was the only half decent player in a sea of crap.

I know people are desperate for a scapegoat but out of all the dross that plays for us. Pogba is not the one.

But he was shit, and hes been shit for a while. Before that, he was still shit. no one is scapegoating him, hes being held to account for his bullshit performances. Not just this one, but all of them. Hes supposed to be world class, yet he downs tools when he cant be bothered. Its not just about today, cant say that enough. No one is being, or should be, judged on one game.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Pogba is not the biggest problem. Not even close. Just check United's win percentage with and without Pogba.

Did anyone say he was? For me, the biggest problem is woodward. I think anyone that been paying attention for the past few years would agree.

 

[TsuWave]

"building a team around" nonsense keeps rearing its head.

other top teams have enough quality that they don't need to rely on waffle like that. KDB off for most of the season? don't worry, City has enough talent. Keita not immediately settling? don't worry, Liverpool has enough quality to get results. at United Pogba has a dip in form and the club spins into relegation form, then people start questioning "is he good enough to build a team around?"

buy quality players and stop hoping that a single player will put this team/club on their back. Ensure that we are not overtly reliant on a single individual instead of scapegoating and wanting to get rid of the one guy that somehow still produces in this shite team.

 

[mancan92]

But he was shit, and hes been shit for a while. Before that, he was still shit. no one is scapegoating him, hes being held to account for his bullshit performances. Not just this one, but all of them. Hes supposed to be world class, yet he downs tools when he cant be bothered. Its not just about today, cant say that enough. No one is being, or should be, judged on one game.

How was he shit?

Did he give the ball away needlessly continously? No
Did he not create any chances? No(created our 2 best chances)
Did he get caught out defensively? No (look at matic and Fred)
Did he miss passes? No
Did he show actual ability on the ball ?Yes
Did he lose his head? No

So where was he shit?

As I said there is plenty of shit out there. Pogba is not the one.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

How was he shit?

Did he give the ball away needlessly continously? No
Did he not create any chances? No(created our 2 best chances)
Did he get caught out defensively? No (look at matic and Fred)
Did he miss passes? No
Did he show actual ability on the ball ?Yes
Did he lose his head? No

So where was he shit?

Ooooo, he created two chances, ooooooooooo. . So I guess it was 4 to almost 2 then? I cant believe your defending a so called world class player by comparing to middle of the road players and youngsters.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

How was he shit?

Did he give the ball away needlessly continously? No
Did he not create any chances? No(created our 2 best chances)
Did he get caught out defensively? No (look at matic and Fred)
Did he miss passes? No
Did he show actual ability on the ball ?Yes
Did he lose his head? No

So where was he shit?

As I said there is plenty of shit out there. Pogba is not the one.

Pogba is one. Trust me.

 

[Jeffthered]

Pogba is not the biggest problem. Not even close. Just check United's win percentage with and without Pogba.

This is far too sensible for some aspects of this thread.

But let's continue to focus on our one world class outfield player.

He was poor today and is in poor form.

But he is STILL better than the rest. Focus on that.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Conflicted as i am, i am willing to give him another season. But i have my doubts. Giles, Brady, Souness have been saying since we signed him, that he is not good enough. Barcelona rang rings around him last tuesday.

Bring in a couple of new players, especially a top RW.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Hugh Jass]

Pogba is not the biggest problem. Not even close. Just check United's win percentage with and without Pogba.

It is not his assists that is the problem. He actually has assisted very well.

It is what he does off the ball. Just strolling around casually like he is playing five aside with his mates after work on a friday. Barcelona rang rings around him on tuesday. The old wayne gretzy quote, you go where the ball is going to go, not where it has been. Well pogba generally goes where the ball has been because he does not work hard enough.

Roy Keane was not as talented as pogba, but was a much better player because he worked his socks off every game for about a decade. I remember reading Johann Cryuff saying that it is what you do when you dont have the ball that determines how good you are. It was torture watching him against Barca.

 

[mancan92]

Ooooo, he created two chances, ooooooooooo. . So I guess it was 4 to almost 2 then? I cant believe your defending a so called world class player by comparing to middle of the road players and youngsters.

Are you serious? So he is meant to stop the rest of the players being absolute tripe?

He is supposed to score all the goals and stop all the goals?
This is mad

 

[mancan92]

Pogba is one. Trust me.

Yeah your right the only player able to produce anything resembling a bit of football is the one responsible for everyone else playing like they have never kicked a ball before.

This thread is ridiculous

 

[mancan92]

It is not his assists that is the problem. He actually has assisted very well.

It is what he does off the ball. Just strolling around casually like he is playing five aside with his mates after work on a friday. Barcelona rang rings around him on tuesday. The old wayne gretzy quote, you go where the ball is going to go, not where it has been. Well pogba generally goes where the ball has been because he does not work hard enough.

Roy Keane was not as talented as pogba, but was a much better player because he worked his socks off every game for about a decade. I remember reading Johann Cryuff saying that it is what you do when you dont have the ball that determines how good you are. It was torture watching him against Barca.

No amount of Roy Keane running is going to make lukaku control the ball.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Are you serious? So he is meant to stop the rest of the players being absolute tripe?

He is supposed to score all the goals and stop all the goals?
This is mad

Are you being serious with your selective reading?

 

[iammemphis]

Unfortunately Pogba is a luxury we cannot afford. Put him on a team of stars who work for each other then he will work, put him in a team of average individuals and he won’t.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

You can't have a player who can be this inconsistent an pay him the kind of wages he wants.

I don't think we should openly market the player but is someone comes in with a decent bid we have to consider it.

 

[jderbyshire]

After the West Ham game, Slaven Bilic was asking: will the board give Ole the power to get rid of who he wants to, in order to take control of the dressing room?

 

[TMDaines]

It was sheer idiocy with the rest of the setup that we decided to pay him as the most advanced midfielder, essentially tasked alongside Lukaku with pressuring the Everton centre backs. None of the centre backs could pass forward, Matic and Fred kept fecking it up, and with a left flank of the right-footed Dalot and Martial, and the right flank of Lindelof and Rashford, no wonder Pogba wasn't in the game early.

For the first 45 minutes, United couldn’t leave their half. The only moments were when Pogba presumably broke rank, dropped between the two centre backs and hit a stunning ball for Rashford to run onto, followed by another that Digne did well to dig out. Please, anyone explain me how that team was supposed to function? How was Pogba supposed to playmake?

People actually want to pin performances like this on Pogba. He’s such an isolated talent in this team. Sell him and see where we are. We have nothing bar him currently creatively. No one can pass from the back; no one who can hit direct, accurate passes; no one who can cross consistently from wide. Pogba can't both fulfil the manager's demands to be the most advanced midfielder in the team, whilst still being the man to get the ball forward from the back.

 

[el3mel]

My theory is that people actually rate Pogba while they know that the others are terrible. The issue is that we need a super hero and Pogba isn't one, so people are frustrated.

For me I'm just mad a player who has all the quality in the world and can play x10 better than those but doesn't because he's too moody and doesn't want to work hard or run much on the pitch as he thinks his talent is enough. He can be really the best midfielders in the world but with these mentality issues, no chance and it's frustrating to watch.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Liam Brady saying he is poor in the middle of the park. But better in and around the box. A bit old as its from the world cup.

 

[elnorte]

Has Pogba lived up anywhere near to the expectations we had of him when he first signed? I'd be surprised if anyone truly believes this to be the case.

Does his name deserve to be said in the same breath as the United greats of the past? Does he even live up to the standards set by some of the less heralded players? I think the answer is an unequivocal no on both counts.

I therefore ask myself why he has earned himself such a loyal and devoted following? It makes absolutely no sense to me. Perhaps people are just that desperate to convince themselves that we still possess genuinely world class players who are the envy of Europe's other elite clubs. Sadly the truth is starkly very different and Pogba isn't even close to meeting this criteria or deserving of such adulation.

 

[kouroux]

Has Pogba lived up anywhere near to the expectations we had of him when he first signed? I'd be surprised if anyone truly believes this to be the case.

Does his name deserve to be said in the same breath as the United greats of the past? Does he even live up to the standards set by some of the less heralded players? I think the answer is an unequivocal no on both counts.

I therefore ask myself why he has earned himself such a loyal and devoted following? It makes absolutely no sense to me. Perhaps people are just that desperate to convince themselves that we still possess genuinely world class players who are the envy of Europe's other elite clubs. Sadly the truth is starkly very different and Pogba isn't even close to meeting this criteria or deserving of such adulation.

It's really is though. Considering how poor and far away this current team is from the United best teams, Pogba is seen by many as the least of worries. I think many of our fans are too wrapped up in the past and judge players way too much with former great players who were made of the right stuff, under the biggest club manager ever.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Has Pogba lived up anywhere near to the expectations we had of him when he first signed? I'd be surprised if anyone truly believes this to be the case.

Does his name deserve to be said in the same breath as the United greats of the past? Does he even live up to the standards set by some of the less heralded players? I think the answer is an unequivocal no on both counts.

I therefore ask myself why he has earned himself such a loyal and devoted following? It makes absolutely no sense to me. Perhaps people are just that desperate to convince themselves that we still possess genuinely world class players who are the envy of Europe's other elite clubs. Sadly the truth is starkly very different and Pogba isn't even close to meeting this criteria or deserving of such adulation.

The problems is he was never worth the 90 million we paid for him. For that amount of money you should be getting an attacker.

That we forked out so much for him means there is pressure on him to perform to a level he is not at.

 

[Adnan]

Liam Brady saying he is poor in the middle of the park. But better in and around the box. A bit old as its from the world cup.

Brady, Dunphy and co spoke so much crap about Ronaldo when he played for us that I can't take them seriously anymore.

 

[TMDaines]

Has Pogba lived up anywhere near to the expectations we had of him when he first signed? I'd be surprised if anyone truly believes this to be the case.

For me, he has pretty much. He and Zlatan had a brilliant understanding in his first season and it was clear they were operating on a different level to everyone else. Every time Pogba got the ball, Zlatan would look to run in behind, and those sorts of runs are so lacking now. Only really Rashford makes them, but he doesn't have the touch that Zlatan did.

His numbers and underlying stats are still really solid. I need someone to update the charts of progressive passes and runs per 90, as it so succinctly evidences his quality at making attacking dribbles and passes, that no one else in our squad can do to anything approaching his level and very few can do world wide.



The above is only for the top player for each PL team. Below is from last season.



Any big sides who can afford Pogba would love to have a central midfielder of that quality.

 

[breakout67]

Any stat that has Alex Iwobi as 4th best is useless.

 

[elnorte]

These stats may have credibility but I cannot be the only one who believes that there seems to be a real disconnect between these figures and what we regularly see taking place on the pitch.