[breakout67]

I genuinely can't believe he wouldn't have done a better as a 6 than Matic today, he isn't too small, his mobility would be genuinely useful there going sideline to sideline which Matic really struggles with and a lot of midfielders his age drop deeper for this part of their career. I'll die on Herrera as a 6 island.

That's what a lot of fans have been saying since his Chelsea days. But he keeps on getting picked and winning big trophies. You can go as far back as 2015 and find a good amount of Chelsea fans saying Matic needs to be moved on for not being mobile and energetic enough. A bit like Fellaini and Lingard, in the sense that they are not highly rated but manager after manager picks them.

Also I find it totally bizarre how at times he can throw on the afterburners and charge through midfield with the ball and nobody can get near him and yet if a player is even a yard ahead of him when he’s tracking back it’s like he’s running in quicksand. Don’t think I’ve ever seen him catch up with an opposing player with the ball and dispossess them.

It's desire. Pogba has said in interviews that he wants to be on the ball and attack. He doesn't fancy doing the donkey work unless its a high pressure situation where you are expected to naturally work a bit harder. It's a recurring theme for Pogba, he puts in some shambolic displays against average teams, but can turn in a worldie against top teams.

He's gone toe to toe with some serious midfielders, but gets outdone by Docoure and Jonjo Shelvey. He is several levels above them talent wise, but gets outworked.

 

[Leftback99]

Is there a player in world football with more excuses made for bad performances?

 

[SER19]

Do they? Don't read very often that he's been brilliant and it's just a dip in form. People seem to forget, all the top, top players play along side equally top players. This isn't Roy of the Rovers and doesn't matter how good you are, you can't play well when teams know if we close down Pogba, you loss 50% of our creativity. Chelsea have Hazard, a player who would walk into pretty much into every team but it's probably won't be enough to make top 4.

I can't remember many games where others have played well and he hasn't like today. Don't believe he's been inconsistent since Ole took over, and actually I think he looked better with Scott, Pereira or Fred around him. The issue of not being here is just the same rhetoric that's always applied to him because some if they are honest like with Rom, haven't never really taken to him. It doesn't take much for people to want him to leave.

I can't speak for the entire forum but know many posters share similar concerns.

If pogba is our key man, the one who makes us tick and around which we set up- is he near consistent enough for it to be worth it? Pogba might excel with a squad like France squad around him but too often he vanishes for us. 3 seasons of the same

 

[Sterling Archer]

Following Manchester United since I was 4 years old. Never seen a player defended against the obvious, by some, as much in my life.

Not even Eric

Who the hell were you supporting from birth til 3?!

 

[Sterling Archer]

Look. He's gash when he has to put in a shift against a team with hard working midfielders. Ander, Matic and Mata didn't do enough around him so it's not just his fault our midfield was completely outclassed.

My biggest issue is this talk of Madrid . If that's actually causing his attitude to shift here, then I have a problem with him.

 

[elmo]

Talented player with a trash attitude. We'll never win the league if he's our best midfielder because he'll go missing when he doesn't feel like playing .

 

[.Rossi]

Who the hell were you supporting from birth til 3?!

A dark period in my life.

 

[ManuMou]

His offensive side of things aside (which is good when he usually gets the ball), is it just me feeling his defensive positioning has been very poor for a while, which is further exacerbated by his lack of desire to defend?

 

[GM K]

I can't speak for the entire forum but know many posters share similar concerns.

If pogba is our key man, the one who makes us tick and around which we set up- is he near consistent enough for it to be worth it? Pogba might excel with a squad like France squad around him but too often he vanishes for us. 3 seasons of the same

I have pointed this out several times here. Pogba cannot be the man you rely on for leadership. He is immensely gifted and someone you want to have in your team but don't make him THE leader (and I don't mean merely the captain) of the team. Surround him with leaders and you'll see him produce.

 

[RedDevil5]

If he doesn't want to be here or can't be bothered for certain games, I would honestly sell. I like him, but he's way too talented to be pulling this kind of stuff regularly. Ole and him need to have a long chat at the end of the season. If he isn't 100% committed, I'd sell to Real (if they are indeed interested).

 

[TsuWave]

dude has a dip in form and the fangs come out. most other top class players are allowed bad games because they have adequate supporting casts, this dude's form drops and the whole system looks shit, and the fans are all to eager to shit on him. don't know why the fans have such a volatile disposition towards him. i hope he moves on and goes to a place where he is appreciated.

 

[In Rainbows]

People tend to defend him because some of the takes make sweeping statements of his entire season based on recent performances. It's frankly ridiculous how some can't criticize him on his recent performance and need to extrapolate that incident to his entire season. Then there's always talks of selling him.

 

[Zoo]

Yeah, this will be fun. He is obviously not very happy with him recently.

Only obvious to people with an agenda. We had no control in midfield, Pogba is capable of providing some of that which is why at certain times we might need to play him deeper.

 

[haram]

He carries the entire burden of all three phases of attack. Build up, transitions and creativity in the final third. It's embarrassing.

 

[roonster09]

Only obvious to people with an agenda. We had no control in midfield, Pogba is capable of providing some of that which is why at certain times we might need to play him deeper.

If anything it's more on other midfielders. They are not capable of retaining possession so Ole is considering playing Pogba deeper to control midfield and make him more involved. As usual the few with agenda and their nonsense.

 

[Canagel]

He carries the entire burden of all three phases of attack. Build up, transitions and creativity in the final third. It's embarrassing.

Very embrassing. For comparisons Sane, Sterling combo matches Pogba's assist number this season and Aguero has more assist than rest of our squad except Paul. Before we even get to the midfields. The gulf is quite big. Squad is crying out for a creative winger just for sake of balance.

 

[Amar__]

Only obvious to people with an agenda. We had no control in midfield, Pogba is capable of providing some of that which is why at certain times we might need to play him deeper.

If anything it's more on other midfielders. They are not capable of retaining possession so Ole is considering playing Pogba deeper to control midfield and make him more involved. As usual the few with agenda and their nonsense.

Yeah, anyone who doesn't think Pogba is the best midfielder in the world has an agenda. He was nothjng better than any of our midfielders yesterday, and for our last couple of games too. Majority blamed his form on his teammates, but yeah, it's all agenda against Pogba.

 

[Jib]

dude has a dip in form and the fangs come out. most other top class players are allowed bad games because they have adequate supporting casts, this dude's form drops and the whole system looks shit, and the fans are all to eager to shit on him. don't know why the fans have such a volatile disposition towards him. i hope he moves on and goes to a place where he is appreciated.

This

 

[SammyUnited_83]

He should have kept his mouth shut RE Real.

He will (eventually) push for a move , I'd get rid.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah, anyone who doesn't think Pogba is the best midfielder in the world has an agenda. He was nothjng better than any of our midfielders yesterday, and for our last couple of games too. Majority blamed his form on his teammates, but yeah, it's all agenda against Pogba.

No. Others analyse the performance, praise him when he plays well and criticize him when he plays poorly. You and couple of others are obvious agenda guys its so obvious.

 

[GM K]

Go through this thread from start to the last post and you will notice a pattern:

Some days the posts read like Pogba is Xavi, Iniesta, Lampard and Michel Platini all wrapped into one. Some other days, the posts read like Pogba is mere hype and should be sold.

This sums his time at United up pretty well.

 

[Amar__]

No. Others analyse the performance, praise him when he plays well and criticize him when he plays poorly. You and couple of others are obvious agenda guys its so obvious.

What exactly is obvious?

You have 162 posts in this thread in comparision to my 30ish and I am the one with an agenda

 

[GM K]

Is there a player in world football with more excuses made for bad performances?

Anthony Martial.

 

[roonster09]

What exactly is obvious?

You have 162 posts in this thread in comparision to my 30ish and I am the one with an agenda

It's obvious.

 

[roonster09]

Very embrassing. For comparisons Sane, Sterling combo matches Pogba's assist number this season and Aguero has more assist than rest of our squad except Paul. Before we even get to the midfields. The gulf is quite big. Squad is crying out for a creative winger just for sake of balance.

He has 20 goals plus assists in PL alone and we have people moaning about his quality.

Few poor games and the usual ones are ready with their pitch forks.

 

[breakout67]

Who exactly is doubting Pogba's quality? Isn't the whole point being made over and over, that he has the quality but doesn't show it consistently?

Isn't there a huge problem when you are assessing your midfielder based on goals and assists rather than controlling a game??? It reminds me an awful lot of the Ozil debate Arsenal fans had. He could have a stretch of bad games and there would be many fans quoting assist stats.

If you want to treat him like an attacker, quoting end product, then there is no way you can build the team around him. Attackers need to be scoring 30 goals a seasons to have a team built around them.

 

[kouroux]

Who exactly is doubting Pogba's quality? Isn't the whole point being made over and over, that he has the quality but doesn't show it consistently?

Isn't there a huge problem when you are assessing your midfielder based on goals and assists rather than controlling a game??? It reminds me an awful lot of the Ozil debate Arsenal fans had. He could have a stretch of bad games and there would be many fans quoting assist stats.

If you want to treat him like an attacker, quoting end product, then there is no way you can build the team around him. Attackers need to be scoring 30 goals a seasons to have a team built around them.

No, they really don't.

 

[roonster09]

Who exactly is doubting Pogba's quality? Isn't the whole point being made over and over, that he has the quality but doesn't show it consistently?

Isn't there a huge problem when you are assessing your midfielder based on goals and assists rather than controlling a game??? It reminds me an awful lot of the Ozil debate Arsenal fans had. He could have a stretch of bad games and there would be many fans quoting assist stats.

If you want to treat him like an attacker, quoting end product, then there is no way you can build the team around him. Attackers need to be scoring 30 goals a seasons to have a team built around them.

Yeah if every midfielder had same role then yes we can judge them on their ability to control the game. Ole himself said he is playing Pogba in advance role but somehow he is judged on the role he isn't even playing.

Again midfield control doesn't depend on individual player, it depends on coach and I gave plenty of examples to prove that in last few months.

Building the team around is the phrase that is thrown around a lot which makes little sense.

Also midfield control doesn't depend on individuals alone. For example the midfield that's dominating the league, one of their key player is Fernandinho. With Van Gaal we dominated him and Yaya Toure, Silva with fecking Fellaini playing as midfielder. With Van Gaal we dominated midfield of Fabregas, Matic with Fellaini, Rooney in midfield.

If Pogba plays under Pep, he will dominate every midfield as that's how he sets up the team. Average players like Milner, Henderson are dominating midfields now, do you think they will dominate if they play under someone like say Jose?

City had Fernandinho, Silva, KdB but they averaged 4th in possession before Pep took over and now they are by far the best, you think that's coincidence?

Individual players don't dominate games, it's how coach set up dominates it. We had 71% possession at Stamford bridge with Rooney, Fellaini, Herrera midifeld vs Matic, Fabregas. If the roles were reversed, Matic and Fabregas would have dominated possession with Van Gaal in charge.

Our midfield of Herrera, Fellaini dominated City's with Fernandinho, KdB, Silva when we had Van Gaal. Now they dominate every midfield in the league, not because they became 2X the players they were, it's because of how Pep sets up the team.

 

[Canagel]

Who exactly is doubting Pogba's quality? Isn't the whole point being made over and over, that he has the quality but doesn't show it consistently?

Isn't there a huge problem when you are assessing your midfielder based on goals and assists rather than controlling a game??? It reminds me an awful lot of the Ozil debate Arsenal fans had. He could have a stretch of bad games and there would be many fans quoting assist stats.

If you want to treat him like an attacker, quoting end product, then there is no way you can build the team around him. Attackers need to be scoring 30 goals a seasons to have a team built around them.

That's all your opinion. Paul is perfectly capable of controlling the games like he demonstrates regularly on the internationals but would much rather be attacking because defending is not his main attribute.
Whilst he remains in the advanced midfield role then yes we'll judge his goal and assists.

 

[breakout67]

No, they really don't.

Usually the team has either one very prolific player that gets most of the chances, or they have multiple players in a fluid attack that share the chances. Harry Kane is Spurs' main man and it is only possible because he is so prolific. Hazard is Chelsea' main man and they have struggled to break down teams all season because he is not consistent enough.

Yeah if every midfielder had same role then yes we can judge them on their ability to control the game. Ole himself said he is playing Pogba in advance role but somehow he is judged on the role he isn't even playing.

Again midfield control doesn't depend on individual player, it depends on coach and I gave plenty of examples to prove that in last few months.

Building the team around is the phrase that is thrown around a lot which makes little sense.

Nothing to disagree with there. Pogba has played very well as an attacking midfielder. And Matic and Herrera do not do enough in controlling games. But sometimes you expect such a talented player as Pogba to take matters into his own hands when deeper players are playing badly. I know it's cliche, but take the game by the scruff of the neck.

 

[kouroux]

Usually the team has either one very prolific player that gets most of the chances, or they have multiple players in a fluid attack that share the chances. Harry Kane is Spurs' main man and it is only possible because he is so prolific. Hazard is Chelsea' main man and they have struggled to break down teams all season because he is not consistent enough.



Nothing to disagree with there. Pogba has played very well as an attacking midfielder. And Matic and Herrera do not do enough in controlling games. But sometimes you expect such a talented player as Pogba to take matters into his own hands when deeper players are playing badly. I know it's cliche, but take the game by the scruff of the neck.

You're right on the Chelsea of this season but when they last won the PL, Hazard played a big role without scoring that high of a tally

 

[roonster09]

Nothing to disagree with there. Pogba has played very well as an attacking midfielder. And Matic and Herrera do not do enough in controlling games. But sometimes you expect such a talented player as Pogba to take matters into his own hands when deeper players are playing badly. I know it's cliche, but take the game by the scruff of the neck.

That would create a hole in the attack where we won't have any players to carry the ball forward. It's all about team, they should trust each other. At this moment we are lacking in midfield, no wonder Ole is considering playing Pogba deeper to control the game better. We should sign good CM and push Pogba to advanced role again, that's where he is at his best.

 

[breakout67]

You're right on the Chelsea of this season but when they last won the PL, Hazard played a big role without scoring that high of a tally

Yes he played a big role, but I would say Costa was just as important. I think one problem is that Pogba is the only one that can produce in attack at an elite level. His defensive work is inconsistent, but one cannot doubt that he produces going forward. Martial and Rashford are very temperamental and it's worrying that Lukaku is still our top scorer despite him taking half a season off.

That would create a hole in the attack where we won't have any players to carry the ball forward. It's all about team, they should trust each other. At this moment we are lacking in midfield, no wonder Ole is considering playing Pogba deeper to control the game better. We should sign good CM and push Pogba to advanced role again, that's where he is at his best.

I agree. A midfielder that can help dictate the game would improve the team considerably.

 

[haram]

When Jose tried to get Pogba to play deeper everyone was full of criticism...

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He carries the entire burden of all three phases of attack. Build up, transitions and creativity in the final third. It's embarrassing.

And yet he wasn't involved in either goal yesterday. Go figure.

 

[Josh 76]

Apart from a second half performance at the Eithad last season. What has Pogba actually done ?
150m for him is a no brainer !

 

[haram]

And yet he wasn't involved in either goal yesterday. Go figure.

This is classic short term analysis. If people want to stick their heads in the sand like this then they shouldn't complain when we play like fecking shit. Look at us over the past 3 years and tell me who builds and transitions play for us. On top of that who is the creative force? It is all from one player and it is embarrassing. The build up, transitions and creativity was still shit yesterday anyway regardless of the two goals. We played like fecking shit.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

This is classic short term analysis. If people want to stick their heads in the sand like this then they shouldn't complain when we play like fecking shit. Look at us over the past 3 years and tell me who builds and transitions play for us. On top of that who is the creative force? It is all from one player and it is embarrassing. The build up, transitions and creativity was still shit yesterday anyway regardless of the two goals.

We are reliant on Pogba, but you're making it sound like he's the only one capable of being creative in our squad, or being responsible for our transitions... When the pace of Lingard/Martial/Rash/Lukaku etc are all just as important for that.

 

[haram]

We are reliant on Pogba, but you're making it sound like he's the only one capable of being creative in our squad, or being responsible for our transitions... When the pace of Lingard/Martial/Rash/Lukaku etc are all just as important for that.

Initiating the transition is also different because a lot of the time it has to happen in deeper areas. Are players like Martial comfortable at picking the ball up in deeper areas and transitioning the ball? Hell no. Martial and Lingard are not dominating the entire left and right hand side. Martial in particular has to be in an advanced position to really be effective. In the final third the decision making is poor on breaks and counters. Pogba is the only real driving force in the team. Sometimes Shaw as well but his final delivery is usually poor. Also, the killer pass is going to be made by who in this team? Paul Pogba. The team is simply poor, tactics are not going to solve it.

 

[Litch]

I can't speak for the entire forum but know many posters share similar concerns.

If pogba is our key man, the one who makes us tick and around which we set up- is he near consistent enough for it to be worth it? Pogba might excel with a squad like France squad around him but too often he vanishes for us. 3 seasons of the same

Not many world class sports people in teams sports that don't play better when they are equally surrounded by world class or just below players. Not rocket science really when you don't, it's easy for the opposition to work out how to stop you. Some days you rise to challenge others it weighs heavy and that creates some inconsistencies.
I think Pogba has an immaturity about him and needs men around him. We saw a very different Pogs when Ibra was at the club.
Frustrating as he is, there's not a team in the world that he doesn't immediately walk into their starting 11 and I include city in that.