6
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Listen, as much as I love pogba as a player and want him to do well there is only one man that will win this.
Jose.
So Paul, start working hard and stop relying on your God given physique and technique and start learning how to play in that 2.
If the club backs Pogba over Jose then the legacy Fergie left will be truly extinguished; player power and all.
A tweak in responsibility doesn't legislate for his performances at Spurs and especially at Newcastle. The total lack of energy or effort has been startling.
Basically I think Pogba is getting away with how he's been playing recently. People are too quick to dole out excuses for him. Mourinho is getting most of the blame, and I have no problem with him being criticised because he deserves it too, but Pogba is equally as culpable.
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Fabregas performed in a midfield two with an absolute monster of a season from Matic; coincidently that team and he was ran into the ground the second half of that title winning season. Right now he's 'performing' as opposed to to excelling with the various midfield defensive personnel (Kante, Bakayako and Drinkwater) and defensive formations i.e 3 at the back, defensive wide players etc. To be fair he's been on a physical decline so it's not fair to compare but the point is he's merely doing a professional job, whilst being in fairly optical circumstances in a two.
Pogba's lack of effort and individual performances should never be defended but he is playing in a pretty sh|tty set up that absolutely does not suits his talents. Defenders that are sh|t scared of the ball, don't push up, fullbacks consisting of Young and Darmian, and usually 4 attackers AHEAD of him with glaring tactical or physical disadvantages.
In a two, you need a midfielder who is tactical and affects the game in the middle of the pitch by being smart with ball recycling, defensive positioning and proactive with forward passing. Why the hell are we asking Pogba to do that when we have Matic, Herrera and Carrick for that?
I've said it earlier but there are no top teams in the world that plays a two without some elite coaching, organisation and unique formation. None of which Mourinho has really provided in his 18months here. Why are we expecting Pogba to be something he's not? It's better to recognise his weaknesses and acknowledge his strengths rather than crucifying the talent and set him up to fail.
In this instance I think the club has to back Pogba, not only did he cost a lot of money but realistically Pogba is the face of United now, we should be building our team around him and playing to his strengths. Do i agree with this? Not one bit, player power is mostly poisonous, is Pogba culpable for some of his performances? Of course, but to back Mourinho for what would probably be ankther 2 seasons max over the future of our club is a big big call to make
it's a conundrum right now. Both Jose and Pogba are right and wrong in their own ways. Pogba is clearly a CM with an attacking mentality, expecting him to defend his space = him not able to impact the game as he can. Now he is a professional footballer who should be able to do the basics, and I feel he has had a good season so far bar the last two games (Spurs and Newcastle). Footballers are humans too they have bad games or get into poor form. Right now he is made the scapegoat for our poor performances. The club or Jose don't gain anything by selling/pushing him out of the club
I always come back to this point, the media makes things worse than it always is, especially when it comes to United. We are losing games, playing poorly. How can they add insult to injury?
Regarding our fans, fickle mindedness is contagious. One good game and Pogba is the best player in the world one bad game and he needs to be sold! Comparing him to Ericksen and KDB does not make sense. They are three different types of players. if Pogba is given the freedom to play like the other two he would be bossing the stats and league right now! however, you make Ericksen or KDB play as a proper midfielder and they will not put even half the numbers Pogba has put in this season. [FYI Pogba is currently 3rd in the assist table]
Also, I feel the Sanchez signing has caused a shift in the team dynamics. Pogba was the main guy in the team earlier, you could see everyone looking to pass to Pogba to create something, now we have Sanchez too and I feel jose realizes that and it also gives him the power to make bold decisions i.e bench/sub Pogba. [ I could be totally wrong, just an opinion]
I always come back to this point, the media makes things worse than it always is, especially when it comes to United. We are losing games, playing poorly. How can they add insult to injury?
Regarding our fans, fickle mindedness is contagious. One good game and Pogba is the best player in the world one bad game and he needs to be sold! Comparing him to Ericksen and KDB does not make sense. They are three different types of players. if Pogba is given the freedom to play like the other two he would be bossing the stats and league right now! however, you make Ericksen or KDB play as a proper midfielder and they will not put even half the numbers Pogba has put in this season. [FYI Pogba is currently 3rd in the assist table]
Also, I feel the Sanchez signing has caused a shift in the team dynamics. Pogba was the main guy in the team earlier, you could see everyone looking to pass to Pogba to create something, now we have Sanchez too and I feel jose realizes that and it also gives him the power to make bold decisions i.e bench/sub Pogba. [ I could be totally wrong, just an opinion]
It definitrly is a contentious set of circumstances but we need to look at the bigger picture, its Manchester United FC, not Pogba FC or Mourinho FC, but if Pogba leaves or is forced out it's Manchester United that lose out, he is a much more important presence for the future of this club than Mourinho is. I understand player power is poisonous, but if if these Pogba quotes are true the club needs to take a good long look at this. If i'm Pogba and i'm looking at rival clubs domestically and on the continent and the way they play football, i know my skillset, I know my worth, i'm thinking what the hell am i doing here playing under this stifling system to do a job the manager most probably knew didn't play to my strengths when he signed me, and I honestly couldn't blame him for that.
Of course some blame has to go on Pogba for some of his performances but we've been banging on on this forum for months and months about how Pogba needs to be used, so it's clear if we know then Mourinho should. He got injured and everyone was saying well we cant do this we cant do that, we didnt play well vs Liverpool because we didnt have Pogba and now all of a sudden he's back we're playing poorly and it's still his fault and he's the scapegoat, we can't have it both ways. As i said this is a very delicate situation and needs to be handled carefully if all is true
Of course some blame has to go on Pogba for some of his performances but we've been banging on on this forum for months and months about how Pogba needs to be used, so it's clear if we know then Mourinho should. He got injured and everyone was saying well we cant do this we cant do that, we didnt play well vs Liverpool because we didnt have Pogba and now all of a sudden he's back we're playing poorly and it's still his fault and he's the scapegoat, we can't have it both ways. As i said this is a very delicate situation and needs to be handled carefully if all is true
Pogba is not leaving. Jesus! Why is there a discussion on this.
While I think this Pogba/Mourinho disagreement is much to do about nothing and don't really believe it if it does have some truth to it and the relationship between Pogba and Mourinho deteriorates beyond repair would you prefer the club to back Mourinho or Pogba?
Also, even more farfetched if the clinic decides to sell Pogba how much do you think he would sell for in the current market? Really have no idea how much you would value him as a player .
Also, even more farfetched if the clinic decides to sell Pogba how much do you think he would sell for in the current market? Really have no idea how much you would value him as a player .
People telling Pogba he is the victim in all of this without ever trying to hold him accountable for his defensive errors should know better. Is Jose misusing him? Yes. Does that absolve him from his lazy demeanor when we don't have the ball? No
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Thing is, Mou has fallen out with his star players multiple times. One has to wonder why that is. Did so with Ronaldo and Hazard.
Funny enough, it's always over the same issue.
Jose is not SAF to win battles with players.
If ever there is a big problem then Jose will lose dressing room as Pogba is very popular player. If anyone leaves then it would be Jose.
Stories write themselves it seems. Every few weeks there are stories about some problems in dressing room. Some can't wait for Jose to have a meltdown to prove a point or that their stories become true.
Had been previously mentioned but this really would be the third time in a row Jose falls out with his star player over defensive duties.
History repeating, Ronaldo, Hazard and now Pogba.
Don't believe these stories much, but if it's proved to be true, that a "midfielder" is refusing to do a defensive duty that leaves our defense wide open, he can leave. If you don't want to fight for the team I don't care personally. We shouldn't allow player power to control the team otherwise good luck becoming the same circus Chelsea always have.
Hopefully not be Pogba and Jose rule these rumors out.
Hopefully not be Pogba and Jose rule these rumors out.
Are we going to have our own Salah and KDB moment?
It's funny, because both those players are being lavished with praise this season and look at how much work they now do defensively, off the ball. Maybe Jose does know a thing or two.
The big difference here though is that Pogba is a midfielder, not a winger or a pure AM. He has to perform defensive duties. People talk as though playing him in a 3 relieves him of these duties but it doesn't, as other teams often play with a 3 man midfield anyway.
Not after letting him go for free and buying him back for 89M. There is no chance the club will let that happen.
It's simplistic to think that Pogba doesn't care about defensive duties or doesn't want to do them. If he's asked anything of Jose it's more likely a request for more support in midfield so that he can have more of an influence on the game overall.
Maybe carrying an injury or going through a dip in form does. Both are acceptable alternatives.
I have no problem with people saying he's had a bad few games, he's been our best player all season though, not some Seba Veronica type misfit or someone who has played like this all season.
However, you can call it an excuse or you can call it a reason....who is Jose getting the best out of ? On top of that you won't ever get the best out of Pogba as a deep lying midfielder. It's a total waste. No top level player will waste his talent long term in a role he isn't suited to. Mr reserved total football Paul Scholes quit international football after a couple of years playing in a role that didn't suit him.
Why does he visibly put little effort in when it comes to tracking players or trying to win the ball back? You are probably right in a way, but he definitely needs to prove that he will put the work in if we are to build the team around him.
As others have said, simply changing to a midfield three won't suddenly make Pogba play out of his skin.
This is a difficult one to answer, and possibly a bit harsh on Jose, who has improved the fortunes of the team since he took over from LVG. I'd say Rojo, Young, maybe Valencia are playing to the best of their ability under him. DDG is DDG. However, I would have to say that most are not.
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I don't think Pogba is faultless by any means, but the lethargy he's shown in these last few games, even in an attacking sense, is unusual for him. Leaving aside his lack of defensive contributions, his strength, dribbling and awareness have been... off since the Tottenham game, as if he's lacking fitness at the moment. It's not like him to be so easily dispossessed as he has been. But we don't have any options aside from him at the moment, so it looks like it'll have to be a two man midfield until Herrera is able to return to fitness.
To you and all the people criticizing Pogba for the tweet bear in mind that players no longer personally send tweets, they have a PR team working for them. Just like how Lingard's twitter account sent out a tweet during the Munich disaster silence at Old Trafford.
No he isn't, Dembele is a far better holding midfielder than Pogba is what he is. He has a far better positioning sense and tackling ability.
Oh please any half decent manager would have improved us for the money spent, the players brought and in comparison to the car crash management of LvG and David Moyes.
And of course the anti Mourinho brigade lap it up.
Pogba wants the Iniesta role basically but we dont have a Xavi and Busquets and we dont play a 433 either. At the end of the day Jose will get his way during the season. In the summer it will be a different matter if both are unhappy with each other then Ed has a huge decision to make.
This. The 2005 Chelsea Mourinho or the 2010 Inter Mourinho never scapegoated his big players. He defended them at all costs, that's why he was able to instill that siege mentality at said clubs. That's why players ran into walls for him in matches. The current version is hell bent on feeding his players to the press after a poor performance, happened at Chelsea the second time, now is happening at United. Shaw, Martial, Mkhitaryan and Pogba now.
How did he scapegoat Martial & Mkhi? Pogba has been shit. If he doesn’t drop him, people say he has favourites. This has been disproven numerous times at United already. He just wants his players to fight. Pogba should be at 200% next game busting his lungs for the team.
As it's clear to see on this page.And of course the anti Mourinho brigade lap it up.
I've seen a better post in Mid-Sussex Football League Division Nine.
He defends Pogba to a ridiculous extent. He wouldn't even comment on the Newcastle goal to avoid criticising him. He's gone head to head with a United legend in Scholes to defend Pogba.
He still does defend his main players (Lukaku and Pogba in particular) at all costs.
Publicly criticizing particular players after collective failure is absolutely moronic especially in the current times where the press and media pressure is absolutely crazy, it doesn't help the team or the confidence of the player. In a perfect world, the manager criticizes the employer puts in hard work but in this era of spoilt players you cannot do that. Mourinho has already lost two dressing rooms due to his methods, may be it's time for him approach things differently.
So you cant tell me how he scapegoated Martial and Mkhi? Dont see how he has scapegoated Pogba either. All he did was drop and sub him.
Of course he can't. He's hell bent on proving Jose is a disaster.
I understand the point about Pogba working on his defensive game, and he should be working on that to adapt.
However, all this about the player shouldn't be accommodated or allowed to be cut a bit of slack is a bit weird to me.
He was Mourinho's first choice (although if it was to play a holding role, then he bought the wrong player), and the club paid a world record fee for him. What's the point of signing him, only to restrict him and play him most weeks in a role that's nowhere near his best?
However, all this about the player shouldn't be accommodated or allowed to be cut a bit of slack is a bit weird to me.
He was Mourinho's first choice (although if it was to play a holding role, then he bought the wrong player), and the club paid a world record fee for him. What's the point of signing him, only to restrict him and play him most weeks in a role that's nowhere near his best?
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