I feel Dembele is more powerful and braver but is far far behind technically. Other than dribbling, Dembele doesn't come close to Pogs. In some mental aspects (combativeness, Bravery, Desire, Anticipation) and physically, I give it to Dembele. Dembele is a free agent in 2019
6
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He does though.
Yes he probably is, but Pogba has been the same player defensively since watching him in the u18s. He's never had the aggression in the tackle or positional awareness that Dembele shows. Then again didn't Dembele used to be a forward?
Sulking is one thing, half-assing it on the pitch when your teammates need you is another. Pogba was being selfish and it hurt the team. Jones and Lingard had to do more work because of Pogba's selfish act.
It's incredibly shortsighted to not realize what allowing your (third-) best player to dictate the team's tactics, by doing what Pogba did, will do to team morale and results.
This isn't the second time he's played that role, and he'd played it well each time prior to Tottenham and Newcastle. Had he put in the effort his teammates did, and still had a poor game, then yes you blame the tactics. But that's not what happened. He chose not to play for his teammates, and that's inexcusable.
You're not understanding the argument. Pogba's error wasn't that he didn't run around enough, it's that he played like he didn't give a feck about his teammates. The two plays I referenced showed the heart and desire of Jones and Lingard to help the team win. And their effort contrasted greatly against Pogba's because he should have been making those two plays himself -- that was his role in those situations.
Well, let's examine that:
- completed 6 dribbles today, compared to his average 3
- 4 tackles; average of 1.4
- 2 key passes; average of 1
- 95% passing accuracy; average of 92.5%
- 99 total passes; average of 65
The rest is pretty much the same.
*all averages are per 90 minutes in the PL.
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I've already said my point was regarding a young Zidane's position at Juventus. And fwiw on your Real point, I don't see 4 or 5 Galacticos at United that Pogba should be asked to cater to.
Anyway to cut to the chase, did Juventus cater to a young Zidane and change his position from CM to AM to provide better conditions for him to perform? Yes
Was Ronaldinho indulged with less defensive responsibility? Yes
It really doesn't matter what position they played as I'm not making like for like comparisons in terms of role, and I only chose those two players because they were linked to us. The point is simply that tactical adjustments needed to be applied to bring out the best of their talents, even in their early and mid twenties. The Balon d'Ors come later, not before.
Physicality and quality wise Pogba is ahead of Dembele. However Dembele doesn't have a problem getting his socks dirty for the sake of the team. Pogba needs to add this element to his game. Press, tackle and do a proper midfielder job to boss the opponent rather waiting to get the ball to do your tricks.
One pundit is saying that it is mouriniho's fault that pogba is not performing well. he said He wants him to be a Kante, a Gerrard and on Ozil at the same time.
I said that many time we should use this 4-3-1-2, not 4-3-3 because we don't have a proper winger who can perform so well on the right flank, 3 CM midfield with Sanchez upfront centrally, Lukaku and Martial as centre-forward would bring out best of the teams.
They are different players. Dembele is more disciplined in his positioning as a CM and is a proper ball winner but Pogba offers more in the final third with his playmaking and final ball. He is also a better dribbler and passer than Dembele.
Agree with that except dribbling. Dembele is a fantastic dribbler and is almost never dispossessed even in tight spaces something I can't say about Pogba. Pogba is definitely more creative and a much better passer and he has a better shot.
Yep. You can say Dembele is better at dribbling in tighter areas but Pogba is unstoppable when he picks the ball up in our own half and drives through the heart of the midfield. The way he can switch defence into attack is incredible at times. Both in the same midfield with a Kroos/Pirlo deep lying playmaker type behind them would be something else.
Really? Pogba is 2 inches taller and half a stone lighter. Dembele is far more powerful and the physical specimen. I would choose is physique over Paul's gangly lanky one any day!
Yeah, when he receive it and got the time and space to turn towards goal and drive forward it's already too late, he is amazing in those situations and with his athleticism and range of passing he is so dangerous. I think teams are really starting to try and get close as Pogba receive the ball to avoid that, and I haven't seen him be allowed to do that nearly as much lately.
But wouldn't a diamond require the strikers to press a lot? I don't see Lukaku and Martial fitting in with that. Also, our fullbacks would be put under a lot of pressure from a lack of support. 3-5-2 is more ideal imo.
If Real really do want Pogba, Kroos plus cash to invest in a proper right winger, Alderweireld and another #10 takes United closer to the title than Pogba, regardless of what position he plays in.
Veron 2.0
Veron 2.0
I have seen Pogba keeping the ball under pressure as if the ball is stuck to him. In some games it looked like it's impossible to get the ball from him. The third goal against Arsenal also shows how much Pogba can impose his physicality on anyone. Problem is in some games he doesn't impose himself at all on the opponent and let himself get outplayed without even trying to resist, but physicality wise, Pogba is very strong.
Away from the fact that you're suggesting us to replace a 24 years old midfielder with a 28 who already reached his peak, Kroos will look even worse beside Matic in 4-2-3-1 I don't even want to imagine it.
Kroos will work best beside Matic and Pogba, meaning he needs a 3 men midfield, so we would have solved absolutely nothing, just got a player much older than Pogba.
It's really interesting reading all this comment about Pogba, from him being our best player to someone referring to him as Veron 2.0, incredible really how fickle minded some people are.
Nobody is mentioning this but Jose has 5 attacking players (almost unbenchable ones) he has to fit in3 spots. Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Sanchez, Lukaku. Adding a midfielder to accommodate Pogba means benching a second attacking player so Pogba can play left. Whom do people suggest be benched? I believe in the big games Jose has no choice now but I’m the smaller games I expect him to persistent with 2 in midfield
Watching de bruyne for mancity breaks my heart. Pogba has more in his locker than him in terms of sheer talent. I know kdb is being coached by pep and all but again the application and effort he puts in is very telling, u get the feeling he just cares about football and being a team player.
Im mentioning kdb not to slate pogba just to emphasize the point that we have a midfield player who can be consistently world class too like him or maybe better. Pogba is almost 25 now. He is at a age where he should be performing week in week out given the talent he has. Im very sure in a mf 3 he will shine but thats not an excuse to be absolutely crap in mf 2. Tbh a player of his calibre should never be below 6 out of 10 at his lowest. What he is putting is a mere 3 out of 10 and thats where the frustration of fans comes from. When he is crap he is really crap.
With all that being said , i still fully believe in him to turn it around soon. He has all the ability and talent to absolute boss the matches. Right now both Jose and paul are at fault to some extent. I just hope they both pull in the same direction to bring out the best in the player.
Im mentioning kdb not to slate pogba just to emphasize the point that we have a midfield player who can be consistently world class too like him or maybe better. Pogba is almost 25 now. He is at a age where he should be performing week in week out given the talent he has. Im very sure in a mf 3 he will shine but thats not an excuse to be absolutely crap in mf 2. Tbh a player of his calibre should never be below 6 out of 10 at his lowest. What he is putting is a mere 3 out of 10 and thats where the frustration of fans comes from. When he is crap he is really crap.
With all that being said , i still fully believe in him to turn it around soon. He has all the ability and talent to absolute boss the matches. Right now both Jose and paul are at fault to some extent. I just hope they both pull in the same direction to bring out the best in the player.
Everytime pogba was up against Dembele in our recent game against spurs he was easily bullied off the ball.
Indeed a 28 year old Kroos, who will likely mature ala Scholes/Carrick and play some of his best football into his 30s will be more useful than some unprofessional clown who neglects all tactical responsibility because one of the biggest clubs in the world won’t become Paul Pogba FC.
Matic and Kroos would probably resemble the Chelsea title winning midfield axis of Matic and Fabregas - two intelligent, cultured footballers dictating the tempo of a game. The only thing currently wrong with the 4-2-3-1 is the fact it’s actually 4-1-3-1 plus a lazy mercenary: put another proper footballer in there alongside Matic and it’ll be productive again.
Pogba had no issue playing it at the start of the season against terrible opposition - it’s only recently when he’s had to dig in and fight that he’s bottled it. When the going got tough, Pogba literally cried.
He’s nowhere near PP in terms of raw talent, but a peak Darren Fletcher of circa 2008/09 would be infinitely more useful to Mourinho at this point.
Kroos is playing in Madrid in a 3 men midfield position using Casemiro to protect the back four and allowing him and Modric to push over. There's nothing suggesting that he'll be able to handle a 2 men midfield with only. The same problem will occur, Matic will be left isolated at the back and Kroos will need to drop back to support, preventing him from going forward and his defensive abilities aren't even that good anyway. Midfield will look even worse.
Considering the fact he's approaching his 30s and his decline physically will happen sooner or later, I can only see one winner of this deal actually. Madrid will get a 24 years old midfielder, play him in his natural position in 4-3-3 and go on and win CL again (Juve were very close to win CL with Pogba in part of midfield 3), while we will get stuck with the same problem we had previously, trying to push a midfielder in a position that does him no favor and expose the team defensively, only difference is we'll be doing it with an older and slower player. This won't help us.
If we want to get Kroos he should play beside Pogba and Matic, this will the best perfect balance of midfield, like last season with Carrick, Herrera and Pogba, or Juve's trio of Pirlo, Vidal and Pogba.
I don’t understand the argument that he’s played in a wrong position, too deep, etc etc. because when you watch where he was in the game, he wasn’t anywhere near the back defending or deep enough in midfield to justify that argument. In fact he was always further up field than Lingard. So, if you guys think he is a more effective player in attacking positions, why didn’t he have any impact against NU? He was almost never back defending and practically playing up in attacking area. So, he’s no good up front either?
If players want to play in attacking areas and are basically in those areas abandoning their defensive duties, then they better have an impact. Well, he didn’t!
If players want to play in attacking areas and are basically in those areas abandoning their defensive duties, then they better have an impact. Well, he didn’t!
How many times have they played against each other ? Pogba only played against Spurs twice, one win and one loss.
There have been plenty evidence that he could handle that in the past. Still 3 man midfield gets the best out of him
No. This is something Matic should be. If Pogba fails to create any chances, whole fanbase will shit on him.
If we wanted that out of him we clearly bought the wrong player. Pogba has never played in any way similar to Dembele. It's right though that someone like Mousa Dembele or Kanté is exactly what this team needs as a third man in midfield. Even physically Pogba is not capable of playing the role the other two are playing, he lacks the acceleration, agility and workrate to chase down opposition players like Dembele and Kanté do.
Imo the perfect midfield setup for us would looks something like this:
Matic
Vidal/Kanté/Dembele -- Pogba
Vidal/Kanté/Dembele -- Pogba
Pogba in that case would be freed up going forward as much as possible and we would still prevent being overrun in midfield due to the added protection and bite from someone like Debemle or the other two I mentioned.
I'm also somewhere between those lines. Have a feeling that Jose won't play him regularly there because he thinks the benefits of that are not greater than sticking with the same formation. As seen in the past, we can play 4-2-3-1 pretty good against lower quality teams. In fact, at the start of the season when we switch to 4-3-3 against Stoke we played one of our worst games. Obviously, it's got to the point when he has to play it in tougher games because we don't have any control in midfield and become overrun.
But, the lack of real cohesion and attacking schemes are the real problem here imo, no matter if it's 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 and if don't solve that problem I'm pretty sure we will start questioning Pogba even if we put him on the left of the midfield three.
As for Pogba or his sulking and his lack of effort sometimes, there is no justification. All this talk about him being unhappy with his role are pretty thin as Jose played him from the very first day there and he didn't show any signs of discontent. I'm also pretty sure that Jose explained to him where he is going to play him when we lure him from Juventus.
Nobody
? It's been mentioned by a lot of different posters that you cannot start all the players you mentioned at the same time. Lingard has to be benched for sur for startersPersonally, I think Pogba's performances are totally dictated by his mood that day. He obviously has a maturity of talent, it's his head that needs to catch up a bit.
What's that got to do with him clearly being weaker than demebele which was the point.
It almost felt like a protest performance. How dare you drop me? If you think I’m not good enough to start every game I might as well stop trying altogether. Came across as petulant and childish. Really fecking annoying from a player who is supposed to be future captain material.
Pogba tends to behave like a small kid, sometimes it is extremely frustrating to see him jog around the pitch after giving the ball away. He has the talent to be one of the best, but either due to Jose's methods or Pogba's own attitude, he might become just another over hyped player.
tends to? In many ways he is. Many footballers are like boys in a men's world as they haven't had that growing up experience that most of us have to go through. The youth players get looked after by their clubs, have a strict routine through their teens and don't get to make the mistakes and growth that the general population has during teen years. then they come into lots of money as teenagers and get most of what they want early. Pogba is also the youngest in his family so will always be the kid in some ways. He is 25 next month, scary!
I've never seen people so quick to jump on a player. Two poor performances.
There's a worry something has changed since the Sanchez transfer, that the focus of the team has be changed and Pogba isn't happy. Long term if he feels like it will restrict him greatly then I could see him moving on. He's a box office player not a defensive holder or pivot.
But wow some posters on here are talking like this has gone on all season. I think that's personal agenda.
There's a worry something has changed since the Sanchez transfer, that the focus of the team has be changed and Pogba isn't happy. Long term if he feels like it will restrict him greatly then I could see him moving on. He's a box office player not a defensive holder or pivot.
But wow some posters on here are talking like this has gone on all season. I think that's personal agenda.
Jesus catch a grip, there's been more than two poor performances from Pogba. There's been debates about him ever since he pulled on the shirt.
In many ways he's taken over from Rooney (even in his prime). His top level is glorious but his bottom level is so bad you might as well play without him.
Hence why it was better when Rooney was the supporting Star behind Ronaldo and then RVP. When he went AWOL, it didn't matter so much. We were best having Rooney as supporter, however once we entertained him being the main guy, United weren't good enough. We could easily buy someone as good or better than Pogba to play 10 or CM and problem solved. He will have less pressure or scrutiny and can relax his way through the season as opposed to be expected to do everything.
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