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2016-17 Performances

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6.3 Season Average Rating
Appearances
51
Goals
9
Assists
6
Yellow cards
10
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Wade3 said:
The transfer fee reflects the players' value in the transfer market. A core aspect of a player's value are his footballing abilities. A player worth a fee of 10 million obviously doesn't have the abilities of a player worth 89 million. Hence you can expect a player worth 89 million to at least have the impact of an average player. Nobody is asking Pogba to perform on his highest level, but given his abilities, one can expect him to perform on the level of an average player, which he hasn't done. He had a good start against Southampton and has been on a decline ever since.
Your analogy is poor because the value of a player that is reflected in his transfer fee doesn't include super healing powers.

N'Golo Kante only joined Chelsea onthe 29th of July for his first training session, which is just a little over a week before Pogba joined our training, yet Kante has been very good for Chelsea according to Chelsea fans.

I can understand a poor start in the first couple of games because you have to get accustomed to the manager's tactics and return to proper footballing shape, but it's been several games since and for him, the trend is going down rather than up.

Martial's first game came on September the 12th because he only joined us at the beginning of September. He may have had more footballing training beforehand, but he was hardly familiar with our tactics.

Ultimately, all of this is not to say that he wasn't worth his money or that he'll be a flop. I firmly believe he'll be a success here. But there's no reason to excuse his performances so far and claim his transfer fee is irrelevant.
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Actually, his transfer fee is indeed irrelevant. We football fans expect a 100M player to start playing well right from the get-go but it doesn't work like that. I do think Pogba is fully fit otherwise he wouldn't be played so I disagree with the fatigue-excuse.
 
Wade3 said:
A core aspect of a player's value are his footballing abilities. A player worth a fee of 10 million obviously doesn't have the abilities of a player worth 89 million.
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That affirmation is wrong the 10m player can have the abilities of the 89m player but he most likely doesn't have the same reputation.
 
Am I the only one who think he hasn't been that bad?

He obviously hasn't played great, but I think he has played better than most of our other midfielders have/would've. He clearly isn't playing up to the standards of his price tag, but I am confident that when he settles in he will do fine. Maybe I am blinkered but I think he's played okay, not as poorly as others are making out.

Also, judging a player of his standard after 5 games is absolutely stupid, unless he has a truly shocking first 5 games. I wouldn't judge any new player after 5 games, I think it's completely unfair. Of course rival fans will as they are hell-bent on seeing him fail, but we as United fans shouldn't be criticising him straight away in my opinion.
 
Full bodied red said:
And who's fault is it that he didn't have a full pre-season ?

He could have had a week or two of holiday, just like the rest of us who have to go to work each day, and then got back into pre-season training.

Instead, he was farting around in America while his pimp was blackmailing everyone - Juve, RM and ourselves.

No excuse / sympathy from me with that one....
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I don't think his issue is lack of pre-season/fitness. How many times have we seen the likes of Aguero, Sanchez (and even Suarez a while back) pick up their form, in weeks after missing pre-season from the Copa America. Pogba's also always keeping good physical shape.

I don't think he's been poor for us for that matter, usually one of our best players in a struggling team. The team collectively needs to get their shit together, he needs to learn his teammates game and preferably play in a more advanced position and we'll see improvements.
 
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Wade3 said:
The transfer fee reflects the players' value in the transfer market. A core aspect of a player's value are his footballing abilities. A player worth a fee of 10 million obviously doesn't have the abilities of a player worth 89 million. Hence you can expect a player worth 89 million to at least have the impact of an average player. Nobody is asking Pogba to perform on his highest level, but given his abilities, one can expect him to perform on the level of an average player, which he hasn't done. He had a good start against Southampton and has been on a decline ever since.
Your analogy is poor because the value of a player that is reflected in his transfer fee doesn't include super healing powers.

N'Golo Kante only joined Chelsea onthe 29th of July for his first training session, which is just a little over a week before Pogba joined our training, yet Kante has been very good for Chelsea according to Chelsea fans.

I can understand a poor start in the first couple of games because you have to get accustomed to the manager's tactics and return to proper footballing shape, but it's been several games since and for him, the trend is going down rather than up.

Martial's first game came on September the 12th because he only joined us at the beginning of September. He may have had more footballing training beforehand, but he was hardly familiar with our tactics.

Ultimately, all of this is not to say that he wasn't worth his money or that he'll be a flop. I firmly believe he'll be a success here. But there's no reason to excuse his performances so far and claim his transfer fee is irrelevant.
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But you're missing the point completely, I'm not saying that transfer fee does not affect how player will be judged, I'm saying that being more expensive does not mean you have to make an immediate impact even if you did not have any preseason preparation.

There is no reason to slate him the way he has been slated either, he has mostly been fine when he played. I don't know what happened to this forum but the amount of hate and criticism towards our own players lately has been incredible. Pogba has not even been that bad yet he gets huge amount of stick and abuse all over the place because he cost a lot. We're such a mess here. He's been here for less than 10 games and played fine in most of them yet you see people questioning the transfer already.
 
I don't even care if he is world class yet, he could at the very least not be shite. I hope today is the day he starts to kick on, he has had enough games at this point for it to be similar to having a preseason I think, and i'm not interested in any of these we need another 4 world class players to make him play well, him Herrera Fellaini has everything you need for a combative, attacking midfield.
 
VorZakone said:
Actually, his transfer fee is indeed irrelevant. We football fans expect a 100M player to start playing well right from the get-go but it doesn't work like that. I do think Pogba is fully fit otherwise he wouldn't be played so I disagree with the fatigue-excuse.
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I don't expect a 100m player to perform to the best of his abilities right away. I do expect him to perform better than he has and I have higher expectations for him than for a much cheaper player. Read my post below.

JPRouve said:
That affirmation is wrong the 10m player can have the abilities of the 89m player but he most likely doesn't have the same reputation.
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A core aspect of a player's reputation are his footballing abilities. I get your point, a cheap player can be unnoticed and have similar abilities. But that is exactly why one can expect more of an 89m player. The reason you shell out so much money is because the player has incredible abilities and, unlike a 10m player, has proven them on the highest level. You pay 89m because you have a much smaller risk of the player not performing because there's too much evidence of him actually performing.

Hence when you pay 10m for a player, that player might have simliar abilities, but you have a much higher risk of it not working out, whereas for a player worth 89m you have more of a guarantee and thus can expect more from the start.
 
Sarni said:
But you're missing the point completely, I'm not saying that transfer fee does not affect how player will be judged, I'm saying that being more expensive does not mean you have to make an immediate impact even if you did not have any preseason preparation.

There is no reason to slate him the way he has been slated either, he has mostly been fine when he played. I don't know what happened to this forum but the amount of hate and criticism towards our own players lately has been incredible. Pogba has not even been that bad yet he gets huge amount of stick and abuse all over the place because he cost a lot. We're such a mess here. He's been here for less than 10 games and played fine in most of them yet you see people questioning the transfer already.
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You said his transfer fee was irrelevant regarding his performances. I believe that from a more expensive player, you can excpect more of a straight-away impact than from a cheaper player, hence his transfer fee does matter.

A lack of preseason can be an excuse to not perform at the highest level, but in the past few games, Pogba has been poor, which is particularly odd beause contrary to your opinion, he has had a bright start to the season with a very good performance against Southampton, which shows that irrespective of a lack of preseason, Pogba is good enough to perform well.
 
Wade3 said:
A core aspect of a player's reputation are his footballing abilities. I get your point, a cheap player can be unnoticed and have similar abilities. But that is exactly why one can expect more of an 89m player. The reason you shell out so much money is because the player has incredible abilities and, unlike a 10m player, has proven them on the highest level. You pay 89m because you have a much smaller risk of the player not performing because there's too much evidence of him actually performing.

Hence when you pay 10m for a player, that player might have simliar abilities, but you have a much higher risk of it not working out, whereas for a player worth 89m you have more of a guarantee and thus can expect more from the start
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But unlike what you said it's not their abilities that separate them. It's their reputation and that reputation is built on experience and consistency at a certain level. And the problem with that reputation is that it is built in a different environment, with different coaches, different teammates and different opponents, if you are not in a position to emulate that environment you can slash that reputation by a good chunk and you should slash the fee by a good chunk too because you are welcoming a different player.

Also the fee of a player is highly dependants on the length of his contract, the means of both clubs, the potential desperation of the buyer and the place of the player in medias.
 
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The Transfer fee talk is annoying. It's perfectly fine to feel the need to bring up the price, just not now. He's only played 5 matches with United thus far. At the end of the day, we all know he will be judged by that transfer fee by not just opposition fans and media, but also United fans. Why are United fans joining in and mentioning the price nonstop? Media are going to use that fee because of the story. Opposition fans are going to use that fee because football fandom is tribal in nature so anything they can use to stick it to United, they will use. To them, being objective doesn't matter. But a United fan? Objectively you know it's dumb to mention it at this point in time, yet it happens all the time.

Go ahead and label him disappointing, there is nothing wrong with that. I don't even think there is anything wrong with thinking he was never worth that amount if you're taking his entire contract worth of future appearances into account. However, anybody can be either worth or not worth that huge fee if you're only taking 5 matches into account. It's such a small sample to judge.

I'll start to worry, 2 months from now.
 
Wade3 said:
You said his transfer fee was irrelevant regarding his performances. I believe that from a more expensive player, you can excpect more of a straight-away impact than from a cheaper player, hence his transfer fee does matter.

A lack of preseason can be an excuse to not perform at the highest level, but in the past few games, Pogba has been poor, which is particularly odd beause contrary to your opinion, he has had a bright start to the season with a very good performance against Southampton, which shows that irrespective of a lack of preseason, Pogba is good enough to perform well.
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No, I said transfer fee was irrelevant when it comes to when he should hit form, especially after having missed preseason.
 
JPRouve said:
But unlike what you said it's not their abilities that separate them. It's their reputation and that reputation is built on experience and consistency at a certain level. And the problem with that reputation is that it is built in a different environment, with different coaches, different teammates and different opponents, if you are not in a position to emulate that environment you can slash that reputation by a good chunk and you should slash the fee by a good chunk too because you are welcoming a different player.

Also the fee of a player is highly dependants on the length of his contract, the means of both clubs, the potential desperation of the buyer and the place of the player in medias.
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A consistency at a certain level reflects a player's abilities. There are plenty of very consistent players out there, but the level of play is highly dictated by the player's abilities. Regardless of the environment, some will simply never perform at the level Pogba has because they simply don't possess his combination of size and athletic ability (which includes speed, strength, leaping ability, mobility, but also the way he can coordinate his feet and thus have superb footwork). You pay 89m for him because compared to other players, he's not merely a product of his environment, but because in a vacuum, he's a superior player compared to others.
 
Herrera and Pogba together in midfield will be very interesting. I do worry about the defensive aspect though.
 
Looking good without Rooney? He's working well with players on his level technically. Mata and Zlatan.

Would've been a hell of an assist if Zlatan buries that volley. Brilliant shot saved well by Zieler.

I like how he plays on the edge of the opposition box as if hes in the centre circle with all the time in the world.
 
When he's playing well he's absolutely superb. Said it in the match thread but this lad needs to be involved in all our attacks.
 
Great stuff from him today, so glad he got the goal to top it off.
 
Has absolutely everything. There's no way he doesn't become a total success here.
 
Amazing what happens when you let him run free and surround him with players that can pass. Him, Mata and Herrera are absolutely dominating Leicester.
 
It's almost as if the position he's playing in midfield doesn't actually matter.
 
Easier for him playing with Herrera/Mata/Rashford around him than Felliani and out of form Rooney/Martial
 
Haven't seen a United midfielder do things Pogba is doing out there. His passes are so on point and his first touch along with that of Ibra's has been phenomenal.

Edit: I meant I haven't seen any United midfielder in the past three years doing the things Pogba is doing.
 
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Herrera is running the deeper midfield and Pogba has just been left to run riot.

Excellent partnership.
 
Immense performance, albeit against pub players like Drinkwater & Amartey. Hasn't made a wrong decision yet.
 
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