It's a shame we didn't sign Kante instead of Pogba. We would have been so much worse this year and Kante would have been labelled a water carrying flop like Schneiderlin was 
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It's a shame we didn't sign Kante instead of Pogba. We would have been so much worse this year and Kante would have been labelled a water carrying flop like Schneiderlin was
Imagine people analyzing his first touch and passing after every game. That 24 second clip would have been used to shit on Kante if ManUtd player did that.
Yes, there have been bettee midfielders this year.
But can nobody remember last year? - we basically had no midfield.
I think no other player could have made us look better than Pogba because he has all the attributes needed.
Change Pogba and Kante and Pogba would be rated as best midfielder
If one man alone could fix a brokem team, Premier League should not be considered as best League
But can nobody remember last year? - we basically had no midfield.
I think no other player could have made us look better than Pogba because he has all the attributes needed.
Change Pogba and Kante and Pogba would be rated as best midfielder
If one man alone could fix a brokem team, Premier League should not be considered as best League
Like he is for France?
How did Kante do in the Euro final? Oh yeah he was benched for Matuidi. Pogba is the higher rated and for good reason. He is all round BETTER than Kante, but Kante is 1 of the best in the world at what he does.
Pogba is a vast improvement to your team and you needed him. But 90 million? When you look at the price of Kante and others it does look like you massively overpaid.
I'm hoping he will come good for you though - not that he has been bad, but he hasn't been great either
I'm hoping he will come good for you though - not that he has been bad, but he hasn't been great either
In terms of technical ability possibly but not in terms of actually being a great midfielder. Kante is a much better player than Pogba right now in terms of performances.
Who had a better tournament? ask @JPRouve our resident French football expert who is rated best for France as I have no clue. It may well be Pogba
You cant buy a player off another European giant for pittance. That's the cost what it took to get him in our side, not what he is "worth". People that use transfer values as a beating stick for performances are ridiculous.
We have just posted record turnover and are now the richest club in the world and that is without starring in the CL the past few years. Are you really questioning the business model? It seems that you are only able to appreciate a player's value in pure footballing terms. It is not the way of the modern game I'm afraid.
He has been I think. But then he has also had a few high profile mares which have clouded opinions.
Even on the weekend it was the last 15 minutes or so when he lost his head that seems to have influenced people, all I've seen since is how terrible overall he was when actually Jones and Zlatan were far worse.
Kanté on the bench was a moronic idea, Lassana Diarra was the best midfielder from the moment he came back. As for the Euro per se, Matuidi and Pogba were at the same level, none of them were outstanding.
Edit: By the way, I'm not an expert.
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In the last two competitive games (Netherlands, Sweden) he was very good as a playmaking DM, also scoring on both occasions. The game against the Netherlands was probably the best I have seen from him all season. I didn't see the other two WC qualifiers, but the trend is his friend imo.
He was terrible against Netherlands but scored a great goal.
The critique Pogba has received is fair in my opinion. The talk about price tag is a bit nonsense though.
Also comparing him to Kante(who I think is the most consistent player in the league at the moment) is unfair because they are both different players. A team can have both Kante and Pogba, it's not an either-or situation. It's a bit like comparing Alexis to Zlatan.
As far as Pogba is concerned, as United fans we've already seen that he'll get himself into plenty of goal scoring positions. Every game he plays, he creates at least 2 clear goal scoring opportunities for either himself or someone else. And that is not something I can say about a lot of midfielders out there. But if you look at the stats they aren't world class. The key here is going to be focus and it's up to him whether he can be honest to himself and realize that he is capable of far more over the 90 minutes.
Also comparing him to Kante(who I think is the most consistent player in the league at the moment) is unfair because they are both different players. A team can have both Kante and Pogba, it's not an either-or situation. It's a bit like comparing Alexis to Zlatan.
As far as Pogba is concerned, as United fans we've already seen that he'll get himself into plenty of goal scoring positions. Every game he plays, he creates at least 2 clear goal scoring opportunities for either himself or someone else. And that is not something I can say about a lot of midfielders out there. But if you look at the stats they aren't world class. The key here is going to be focus and it's up to him whether he can be honest to himself and realize that he is capable of far more over the 90 minutes.
Okay, we simply seem to have different views on football. World class performance for me (didn't think he had it in him at that time), but the goal was a bit lucky.
Terrible is a slight exaggeration, he wasn't particularly good. France weren't good and Netherlands caused a lot of problems in midfield.
Maybe I'm thinking about an other game.
Could be; Normally I bow to your assessments, because you obviously know French football 50x better than me, but this time I'm defiant.
The game was kind of an revelation for me about Pogba's ceiling in that role, so I'm sure I remember it well. The Netherlands were quite poor in possession and were outplayed by France for most of the match.
Could be; Normally I bow to your assessments, because you obviously know French football 50x better than me, but this time I'm defiant.
The game was kind of an revelation for me about Pogba's ceiling in that role, so I'm sure I remember it well. The Netherlands were quite poor in possession and were outplayed by France for most of the match.
Honestly, I remember a terrible game with France being bothered by a terrible side mainly because the midfield wasn't controlling the game properly. But I tend to be harsh with the national teams.
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Well, sometimes assessments or memories differ, no big deal.
It's also only a few games I'm referring to, so not much is really proven yet. The truth lies in what's still to come, and the WC of course. I'm looking forward to watch France playing again this year.
Some blame also lies with Mourinho for Pogba's role in the team. We already have creative players in Mata, Mkhitaryan, Carrick and even Zlatan to some extent. Why play Pogba in a similar role too?
Pogba's primary role should be playing as a box-to-box player, similar to his early Juve days. We don't need any more playmakers, we need men in the box to support Zlatan.
Either that or play another forward with Zlatan upfront.
Agree completely, Pogba actually looked like he gave a feck and kept at it, and he created multiple chances which we squandered. Objectively he should be one of the last players to get criticized but I'm not holding my breath. I only criticized his free kick as all his others have been on point technique wise.
obviously Jose hasn't been happy with him in that role, hence why he has moved him. We play better with Miki or someone else as a number 10 than when Pogba was box 2 box role.
From a footballing perspective, I completely agree with you, we overpaid massively for him. However, like it or not, and I don't personally, the game is as much about marketing as anything else these days. And the fact is, Pogba is a huge marketing draw. The money for the transfer was made back pretty much instantly. It wouldn't have been the same for Kante, even at such a reduced fee.
Pogba has the tools in my opinion to be a great midfielder. Do I ever think he'll be good enough to justify the 90 million from a footballing perspective? No, I don't. But hopefully I'm wrong, as I've been many times before.
Maybe not sidelining him, but he shouldn't be immune to being brought off when he's having a stinker like his second half on Saturday.
Fair point, direct positional comparisons might be harsh, I was aiming more for the inspirational talisman role, being instrumental and stand-out players in the teams of their era... not going awol against Bournemouth.
then you need to compare him to Gerrard......
He's been playing more like a Zidane or Scholes rather than a Gerrard or Lampard.
That is the problem for me. We don't need another playmaker in an already creative team, we need an auxillary striker. That should be Pogba's role in the 8 position.
The most exciting thing about having a talent with his size/athleticism combined with his ridiculous technical skill set is that he should be able to do 1.5 players work. So I'm not going to buy the 'he needs to play in a 3' to be good. I expect him to he footballs version of LeBron if he fulfils his potential - does everything to a very high level.
Luckily for us he's still young, so he's still got good time to learn.
Luckily for us he's still young, so he's still got good time to learn.
Kante job is not easier given the reason you gave, but definitely less responsibility demanding as if he can't do that, Chelsea can easily switch to a more possession base with Cesc, adding more work rate in place of Hazard with Willian. Pogba has no responsibility to do since taking him out, we're back to uninspired slow midfield that last few seasons: Carrick, Bastian, Herrera, Fellaini, Rooney. Adding workrate & a bit of space would mean you use Lingard, Young, Valencia (can add Rashford there too but he's very defensive suspect beside the workrate) on the wing/ attacking position. Look at that team without Pogba, the lack of energy, dribbling through central midfield, penetrative chance creating pass (better than Carrick)... is obvious.
The doing the job of 2 midfielders is exaggeration. His workrate, the ability to pressing is impressive. He covered more ground is to get the best out of him. Not like player can take off a player whenever they want; or there are teams that were able to beat this 12 men team. If this is what the football is all about this then Barcelona would have gone extinct long ago. The tiki taka concept was to counter the physical demand as Spanish & Latin players don't have the physical attribute & stamina as big as some other part in Europe. There are players out there who run as hard, but also offensively better (Vidal, Nainggolan), can anyone say their team played with 12+ players & they can make 10 men formation & add a luxurious player?
Pogba was serial winner with Juventus & getting due recognition as key player, so the bolded part is not the way to judge players.
The idea is always with double pivot with Pogba being part of it from the start. Circumstance leading to midfield 3, but then when thing lighten up, Mourinho would like a midfield 2 & ultilize the no 10 role as the play making focal point of the team, not Carrick deep play maker.
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simple solution. Carrick/Bastian at CM with Herrera. Play Miki/Mata at 10, Miki/Mata/Rashford at RW and Martial LW. enough creativity and passing in there to not play a slow uninspiring game. Van Gaal is gone
Carrick likes to sit as single pivot & bring the tempo down to suit his speed. Midfield 2 or double pivot is not his best even when he's younger & still had legs. Midfield 3 is the way to go for any formation with Carrick. Bastian's fitness / match sharpness is a doubt. Haven't played tough/ intense games for months. I the last times he did often ran out of gas after a half thus leading to drop in tempo.
Give Bastian some games. Blind and Herrera with Miki in front. Rashford RW Martial LW Zlatan up top. this is IF Pogba wasn't about I mean
We should have utilised Bastian more this season.
I don't think Bastian or Carrick have the legs tho play in a midfield two against a team that plays the pressing game. Hell, even in a midfield 3 Carrick struggled against Liverpool and had to be taken off.
To be fair to Bastian, we haven't seen him enough to pass that judgement ourselves but seeing how Mourinho treats him, it doesn't look like he'd trust him in that role either.
Can't argue about Bastian getting more game time, just saying his fitness level has really slipped the last couple years, that included the time toward the end of his career. Fitness at top level is a hell of difficulty to get back into once you get out of shape. Age is not on Bastian side neither.
Blind positional discipline & awareness ain't as good as Carrick & even slower top speed. Mourinho doesn't favor Carrick type of midfield, & compromise under circumstances, I don't see the point of he favor inferior player (to Carrick) in Blind under normal circumstances. Mourinho's ideal is a combative no 6 who is also positional astute. That's the reason Herrera was preferred in this role even though it was not his natural role.
The no 8 is to adapt to the no 10 & no 6 Mourinho had. Pogba happened to be one of the most all rounder (at high level) no 8. While at this moment we don't have the best system nor Pogba is mature enough, Pogba signing is ideal signing for the future as with his ability it would allow us to utilize different type of no 6 & no 10 while maintaining a high level. Pogba can play Lampard role, on the side of diamond too, but I really see that Mourinho try to develop him as no 8 (more attacking of the midfield 2).
Kante is all great for a while now, but doesn't have much room to improve (personal opinion). In case his physicality decline (he has not had that much mileage at top level: playing European football & league game in same season & only less than 2 seasons as French international player with more of squad role; so arguably he's at a comfortable zone fitness wise to play his natural game at this consistent level), arguably it would hugely affect his game since he would have to abandon his natural game & we yet to see another dimension of his play. With Pogba arguably he can adapt his game if one aspect of his game decline with age by using the experience, & other attributes. That's supposed his truly long term value.
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Rostov 1:1 Man Utd
Anonymous so far. Not really sure about his role. Right winger?
Right of midfield three. To help Mikhi under the high ball. Conditions couldn't be less suited to someone who likes as many touches as he does. Or any kind of talented footballer really.
Having a meh game so far, hopefully will score from a free-kick.
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