[Cassidy]

And praise.

They said he simply "has not lived up to his billing" and has "not been good enough" period. That is taking into account positives and negatives.

They're not lying either

 

[TomMUFC8]

And praise.

They said he simply "has not lived up to his billing" and has "not been good enough" period. That is taking into account positives and negatives.

Not lived up to the stupid hype that those in the media have thrown on him. That's media and football.

In regards to purely on the pitch, take away the whole circus. He has greatly improved us and that's all I care for. Why people get upset over money that has absolutely no impact on us is beyond me.

We are better off with Pogba at the club than we were and we will be better off in the future. Surely as fans that's what we should care about, not what the Glazers value a player/brand as. If that's the concern, I'd question why people follow football.

 

[balaks]

He will forever split opinion. And usually that's fine, that's part of being a fan but when the opinion is clouded by such things as haircuts and dance moves it gets stupid.

Take away the whole circus that comes with Pogba and look on the whole what he brings on the pitch and will bring on the pitch in the future. He has been one of the best CM's this season in the Premier league. When you size it up against fan expectation, then yes, he has been below par but actually just considering what his two legs are doing on the pitch, I wouldn't want any other central midfielder over him at United.

He really hasn't been though, let's be honest about it.

 

[Cassidy]

Not lived up to the stupid hype that those in the media have thrown on him. That's media and football.

In regards to purely on the pitch, take away the whole circus. He has greatly improved us and that's all I care for. Why people get upset over money that has absolutely no impact on us is beyond me.

We are better off with Pogba at the club than we were and we will be better off in the future. Surely as fans that's what we should care about, not what the Glazers value a player/brand as. If that's the concern, I'd question why people follow football.

Hes been overall good this season, however I don't think hes been good enough yet, but he still has time. Herrera has been our best midfielder this season. IMO Pogba should be winning that race

 

[TomMUFC8]

He really hasn't been though, let's be honest about it.

What central midfielder would you swap him for this season?

Chelsea are top of the table and flying, so I understand there is an easy choice or two there but it's far easier playing in a team like that.

 

[kopviolator]

Brings some Veron memories back to my mind. Obvious class and qualities but his role a bit undetermined.

But he has to grow up. He can't be thinking about walking past 3 players every fecking time he has the ball. He has a tendency to reduce the flow when attacking and risks losing possession. Needs to keep things simple and then he'll be a success.

 

[balaks]

What central midfielder would you swap him for this season?

Chelsea are top of the table and flying, so I understand there is an easy choice or two there but it's far easier playing in a team like that.

Again with the excuses for him. I would put quite a number of central midfielders currently playing in the top 4 teams ahead of Pogba based on performances this season. He may have more talent in terms of technique then some of them and is capable of nice long passing, but in terms of effectiveness and regular quality performances this season he just has not been as good as people are claiming here and certainly not as good as many of the midfielders currently playing in the top 4.

 

[TomMUFC8]

Again with the excuses for him. I would put quite a number of central midfielders currently playing in the top 4 teams ahead of Pogba based on performances this season. He may have more talent in terms of technique then some of them and is capable of nice long passing, but in terms of effectiveness and regular quality performances this season he just has not been as good as people are claiming here and certainly not as good as many of the midfielders currently playing in the top 4.

Excuse?

I asked a question, which central midfielder would you take over him this season?

Take into consideration his good form during our good spell which people are conveniently forgetting.

 

[roonster09]

Again with the excuses for him. I would put quite a number of central midfielders currently playing in the top 4 teams ahead of Pogba based on performances this season. He may have more talent in terms of technique then some of them and is capable of nice long passing, but in terms of effectiveness and regular quality performances this season he just has not been as good as people are claiming here and certainly not as good as many of the midfielders currently playing in the top 4.

Same thing is repeated again and again and you guys moan about ManUtd fans for not doing their research properly on Kane and Spurs.

 

[balaks]

Excuse?

I asked a question, which central midfielder would you take over him this season?

Take into consideration his good form during our good spell which people are conveniently forgetting.

I've answered the question you asked. Also the excuses comment was in reference to you admitting the chelsea midfielders have been better than him but only because they have a better team - i.e. an excuse.

 

[TomMUFC8]

I've answered the question you asked. Also the excuses comment was in reference to you admitting the chelsea midfielders have been better than him but only because they have a better team - i.e. an excuse.

That would make sense if I said Pogba has been the best. However, I said one of the best, which refers to multiple players - i.e. More than one.

 

[Stacks]

Not lived up to the stupid hype that those in the media have thrown on him. That's media and football.

In regards to purely on the pitch, take away the whole circus. He has greatly improved us and that's all I care for. Why people get upset over money that has absolutely no impact on us is beyond me.

We are better off with Pogba at the club than we were and we will be better off in the future. Surely as fans that's what we should care about, not what the Glazers value a player/brand as. If that's the concern, I'd question why people follow football.

Not just the price tag. As a midfielder he is supposed to be one of the best in his position. perhaps if you are saying that he is not, and that status is overestimating him then fair enough I get your point.

We are better in some ways in other ways not as we still don't have a fixed position, formation or role for him in the team meaning we are still a bit in limbo where as our opponents above us seem to have a set system. Also we don't have great shape or balance in midfield when we play a 2, sometimes......

 

[balaks]

That would make sense if I said Pogba has been the best. However, I said one of the best, which refers to multiple players - i.e. More than one.

Well if you meant he is in the top 10 midfielders in the league this season then I'd be agreeing with you.

 

[Cassidy]

I've answered the question you asked. Also the excuses comment was in reference to you admitting the chelsea midfielders have been better than him but only because they have a better team - i.e. an excuse.

TBH and this is not an excuse. Better is subjective.
Both Kante and Matic have next to zero creative responsibility in their teams. So when you look at who has been better in terms of CMs this season it can be a subjective thing.

Some midfielders have balanced responsibilities, some have mainly defensive and some have mainly attacking.

 

[balaks]

TBH and this is not an excuse. Better is subjective.
Both Kante and Matic have next to zero creative responsibility in their teams. So when you look at who has been better in terms of CMs this season it can be a subjective thing.

Some midfielders have balanced responsibilities, some have mainly defensive and some have mainly attacking.

I guess when I rate a player I look at what their role is in the team and then rate them based on that. So with the likes of Kante I rate him purely on the defensive side of his game and his ability in possession and on those terms he is at an extremely high level. Does that mean he is a more 'talented' player than the likes of Pogba? Maybe not in technical ability but in performing his role then he is a much better standard of player (based on performances) than Pogba is. That's the way I try and look at things. Part of the problem you guys have with Pogba is that his role is not well defined yet of course.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I would say that our midfield Looks much better with him. Maybe this is not saying too much as it has been a mess for a while now.

However, I agree that his role is not fully defined by now. Tbh I am still not sure if he is better in a 4-3-3 as most offensive midfielder or in a 4-2-3-1 as part of the midfield 2.

 

[Cassidy]

I guess when I rate a player I look at what their role is in the team and then rate them based on that. So with the likes of Kante I rate him purely on the defensive side of his game and his ability in possession and on those terms he is at an extremely high level. Does that mean he is a more 'talented' player than the likes of Pogba? Maybe not in technical ability but in performing his role then he is a much better standard of player (based on performances) than Pogba is. That's the way I try and look at things. Part of the problem you guys have with Pogba is that his role is not well defined yet of course.

Thats fair, I also rate Kante higher than Pogba this season. Infact I rare Herrera higher than Pogba this season.
Its not about talent (what I was describing)

I'm talking more in terms of the responsibility a player has. Kante has less responsibility in midfield than say Herrera. Herrera has both defensive and attacking responsibility whilst playing next to someone with even less defensive responsibility than he does. Kante has mainly defensive whilst also playing with a partner who is also mainly defensive.

So when I evaluate the two, although I am inclined to say Kante has overall been better due to his insane work rate, I put Herrera not far behind him for instance due the him having more responsibility in midfield.

As for Pogba not sure how I would rate him, hes been good but yes the issues with his role are not helping how we evaluate him, plus he has been inconsistent

 

[balaks]

Thats fair, I also rate Kante higher than Pogba this season. Infact I rare Herrera higher than Pogba this season.
Its not about talent (what I was describing)

I'm talking more in terms of the responsibility a player has. Kante has less responsibility in midfield than say Herrera. Herrera has both defensive and attacking responsibility whilst playing next to someone with even less defensive responsibility than he does. Kante has mainly defensive whilst also playing with a partner who is also mainly defensive.

So when I evaluate the two, although I am inclined to say Kante has overall been better due to his insane work rate, I put Herrera not far behind him for instance due the him having more responsibility in midfield.

As for Pogba not sure how I would rate him, hes been good but yes the issues with his role are not helping how we evaluate him, plus he has been inconsistent

That's fair comment. I think we are pretty much on the same wave length with this.

 

[Sparky10Legend]

The new Spice Boy, all style not "much" substance.

He's a cherry on the cake player, not the filling.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Thats fair, I also rate Kante higher than Pogba this season. Infact I rare Herrera higher than Pogba this season.
Its not about talent (what I was describing)

I'm talking more in terms of the responsibility a player has. Kante has less responsibility in midfield than say Herrera. Herrera has both defensive and attacking responsibility whilst playing next to someone with even less defensive responsibility than he does. Kante has mainly defensive whilst also playing with a partner who is also mainly defensive.

So when I evaluate the two, although I am inclined to say Kante has overall been better due to his insane work rate, I put Herrera not far behind him for instance due the him having more responsibility in midfield.

As for Pogba not sure how I would rate him, hes been good but yes the issues with his role are not helping how we evaluate him, plus he has been inconsistent

It's easier for Kante to perform though. He's got 1-2 jobs. That's win the ball back as quickly as possible, run forward with it if there's space and then pass it to the front 3. Playing a simple role like that makes it much easier.

Pogba is having to win the ball, dribble the ball, pass the ball, score the goals, make the assists etc. It's a more traditional way of playing but it sure puts a lot of effort on him, especially when the other forwards are not pulling their weight.

Chelsea can rely on Hazard/Pedro/Costa to do the business and let the others do the hard work. Maybe we should be aiming to do that with Griezmann/Martial/Mkhi. If we could get a CB like Bonucci between Bailly and Rojo that would be pretty decent.

 

[Cassidy]

It's easier for Kante to perform though. He's got 1-2 jobs. That's win the ball back as quickly as possible, run forward with it if there's space and then pass it to the front 3. Playing a simple role like that makes it much easier.

Pogba is having to win the ball, dribble the ball, pass the ball, score the goals, make the assists etc. It's a more traditional way of playing but it sure puts a lot of effort on him, especially when the other forwards are not pulling their weight.

Chelsea can rely on Hazard/Pedro/Costa to do the business and let the others do the hard work. Maybe we should be aiming to do that with Griezmann/Martial/Mkhi. If we could get a CB like Bonucci between Bailly and Rojo that would be pretty decent.

I agree, thats exactly what I was trying to point out. Kante has less responsibility in midfield so his job is easier. Its one of the reasons why I don't think he would be as good if he was at United, but you never know.

 

[Raees]

So many people getting on his back.. surely it is inevitable he is going to undergo a quantum leap and become a proper player next year.

 

[Stacks]

I agree, thats exactly what I was trying to point out. Kante has less responsibility in midfield so his job is easier. Its one of the reasons why I don't think he would be as good if he was at United, but you never know.

He has neither less responsibility nor is it easier. The guy has to cover so much ground and Pogba could certainly not do that role and vice versa. Kante needs the lungs of a long distance runner and effectively does the job of 2 midfielders, the way her covers ground and turns over the ball. No coincidence he is on title winning teams consecutively. He offers far more of a midfield presence and I would say is more dominant of a midfielder. How can you say that a more dominant midfielder has less responsibility than the icing on the cake guy?

 

[Dec9003]

I think my main problem with Pogba isn't so much that I don't think he's a good footballer, he's obviously very good when it comes to actually kicking the thing, I just don't think he's particularly effective in any role at the moment.
As a 6 he's obviously being misused, which is why we rightfully haven't seen him play there
As an 8 in theory he should be at home (to me at least) he should be able to ping lovely balls all over the park, and chip in with a goal from deep or a set piece here and there.
However what ends up happening is he gets it and does something stupid like launches it forward or tries to dribble past every man on the pitch.
If he just learned to keep it simple and more importantly effective I think is the real key word he needs to have drilled into his head, then he'd be a cracking midfielder.
I don't think he'll ever be the best midfielder/player in the world like a lot say he will, but he can be an excellent player for us if he sorts himself out and grows up a bit. We shouldn't have payed 90 million for someone we need to culture into a role though.
He just needs to take a leaf from Mata and Herreras book and stop looking his damn head.

 

[Cassidy]

He has neither less responsibility nor is it easier. The guy has to cover so much ground and Pogba could certainly not do that role and vice versa. Kante needs the lungs of a long distance runner and effectively does the job of 2 midfielders, the way her covers ground and turns over the ball. No coincidence he is on title winning teams consecutively. He offers far more of a midfield presence and I would say is more dominant of a midfielder. How can you say that a more dominant midfielder has less responsibility than the icing on the cake guy?

Erm probably because Pogba has both attacking and defensive responsibility and Kante has mainly defensive?
Bare in mind I made no reference to how they performed or if one can do the others role. However its clear as day one has more responsibility in terms of what a midfielder has to do.

Also Kante doesn't do the job of 2 midfielders, he has one sitting behind him screening him so he can go and win the ball off the opposition.

 

[Stacks]

I think my main problem with Pogba isn't so much that I don't think he's a good footballer, he's obviously very good when it comes to actually kicking the thing, I just don't think he's particularly effective in any role at the moment.
As a 6 he's obviously being misused, which is why we rightfully haven't seen him play there
As an 8 in theory he should be at home (to me at least) he should be able to ping lovely balls all over the park, and chip in with a goal from deep or a set piece here and there.
However what ends up happening is he gets it and does something stupid like launches it forward or tries to dribble past every man on the pitch.
If he just learned to keep it simple and more importantly effective I think is the real key word he needs to have drilled into his head, then he'd be a cracking midfielder.
I don't think he'll ever be the best midfielder/player in the world like a lot say he will, but he can be an excellent player for us if he sorts himself out and grows up a bit. We shouldn't have payed 90 million for someone we need to culture into a role though.
He just needs to take a leaf from Mata and Herreras book and stop looking his damn head.

Basically he offers the Nani conundrum. Very good at kicking the thing, attributes in general, should be one of the best. But missing something. Nani would have some games where nothing is coming off/quiet/not involved then he would put in a great cross for Rooney and we would get a goal. The issue was more reliability, consistency, decision making, taking responsibility etc. The mental sides of the game.

 

[Stacks]

Erm probably because Pogba has both attacking and defensive responsibility and Kante has mainly defensive?
Bare in mind I made no reference to how they performed or if one can do the others role. However its clear as day one has more responsibility in terms of what a midfielder has to do.

Also Kante doesn't do the job of 2 midfielders, he has one sitting behind him screening him so he can go and win the ball off the opposition.

When in a 2. In a free and when he played 10, it was designed to "free him up" to sprinkle his magic so not too much responsibility.

 

[Cassidy]

When in a 2. In a free and when he played 10, it was designed to "free him up" to sprinkle his magic so not too much responsibility.

In a 3 he still has more. When he played at 10 I agree but that hardly happened. Yes I also agree that those changes were made to free him up.
Not exactly the point though, I simply stated he has more responsibility in the midfield.

 

[Sammyjunn]

What's the point, he'll be back to being world class when he puts in an okay performance vs Rostov at home.

 

[Dec9003]

Basically he offers the Nani conundrum. Very good at kicking the thing, attributes in general, should be one of the best. But missing something. Nani would have some games where nothing is coming off/quiet/not involved then he would put in a great cross for Rooney and we would get a goal. The issue was more reliability, consistency, decision making, taking responsibility etc. The mental sides of the game.

I agree, but obviously Pogba is meant to be our main man which makes it a much, much bigger issue. I don't know what Mourinho can do to get his head straight but he needs to. Otherwise he will have to start playing a three man midfield every game again and waste the combinations Herrera Mata and Mkhy have made.

 

[Cassidy]

I agree, but obviously Pogba is meant to be our main man which makes it a much, much bigger issue. I don't know what Mourinho can do to get his head straight but he needs to. Otherwise he will have to start playing a three man midfield every game again and waste the combinations Herrera Mata and Mkhy have made.

Its not about getting his head straight. Its about him learning which he is doing. He was never a guy who had all those mental parts of the game down to a T when we signed him. It was always going to be a learning curve for him.

 

[Stacks]

What's the point, he'll be back to being world class when he puts in an okay performance vs Rostov at home.

very true. The thing is with Paul, everything is hyperbole. One good performance against any level of team and he is "world class, worth the money, going to be class, having a great season, my favourite player." Then he has a quiet game and he is a "grown man in child's body, clumsy, liability, immature, dabber who sometimes plays football." etc etc

 

[iKeano]

Pogba has bags of talent & will come good. My issues are that these 'superstar' players think they have it made when they play for Utd.

People saying he needs time, for persepctive;

George Best 1968, League Winner, European Cup winner, Top goalscorer (28 league, 32 overall) - He was 22 and 7 days when he won the European Cup.
Cristiano Ronaldo 2008, League Winner, Champions League Winner, Top goalscorer (32 league, 42 overall) - He was 23 and 3 months when he won the Champions League.
Paul Pogba 2017, 4 league goals, 8 overall. turns 24 next week.

If he wants to be considered a great, he needs to be compared to the greats. He needs to have a long hard look at himself & Jose needs to clip his wings like he did with Martial & Mkhitaryan.

 

[Stacks]

I agree, but obviously Pogba is meant to be our main man which makes it a much, much bigger issue. I don't know what Mourinho can do to get his head straight but he needs to. Otherwise he will have to start playing a three man midfield every game again and waste the combinations Herrera Mata and Mkhy have made.

maybe he is not supposed to be the main man, as fans of Juve sometimes allude to? Or perhaps it is something he will evolve into in years to come? Jose did say the fee was for the potential, how he may turn out and the amount of years. The only question is that why would he be the initial midfield reinforcement when the foundations for him to perform, or offset his developmental deficiencies aren't in place yet? we have been crying out for a dominant midfield player/main man for years. I slightly feel that Jose didn't really know what he was getting. It may seem strange as Jose seems like the meticulous type but there you go.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Pogba has bags of talent & will come good. My issues are that these 'superstar' players think they have it made when they play for Utd.

People saying he needs time, for persepctive;

George Best 1968, League Winner, European Cup winner, Top goalscorer (28 league, 32 overall) - He was 22 and 7 days when he won the European Cup.
Cristiano Ronaldo 2008, League Winner, Champions League Winner, Top goalscorer (32 league, 42 overall) - He was 23 and 3 months when he won the Champions League.
Paul Pogba 2017, 4 league goals, 8 overall. turns 24 next week.

If he wants to be considered a great, he needs to be compared to the greats. He needs to have a long hard look at himself & Jose needs to clip his wings like he did with Martial & Mkhitaryan.

Please, no. The less players we need that he pulls out that bullshit maneuver with the better. Pogba does need to improve and is too erratic to be a top player right now and Jose needs to bring that out without sidelining him.

 

[Stacks]

Pogba has bags of talent & will come good. My issues are that these 'superstar' players think they have it made when they play for Utd.

People saying he needs time, for persepctive;

George Best 1968, League Winner, European Cup winner, Top goalscorer (28 league, 32 overall) - He was 22 and 7 days when he won the European Cup.
Cristiano Ronaldo 2008, League Winner, Champions League Winner, Top goalscorer (32 league, 42 overall) - He was 23 and 3 months when he won the Champions League.
Paul Pogba 2017, 4 league goals, 8 overall. turns 24 next week.

If he wants to be considered a great, he needs to be compared to the greats. He needs to have a long hard look at himself & Jose needs to clip his wings like he did with Martial & Mkhitaryan.

That's unfair. He isn't a winger, nor a goal scoring one. You should compare him to players in his role. Others have already done it by comparing to Zidane, Scholes, Pirlo, Keane etc.

 

[JON.B]

Needs to mature and start bossing games more, something I'm sure he'll do at some point in the future. We also need better movement off the ball from other players to give him more options, sometimes you can see what he wants to do, the pass he's looking for but others are too slow to react or anticipate his intentions, which then means he often tries to do too much himself and gets frustrated when it doesn't come off.

We need another midfield option to free him up, take some of the defensive work away and just let him do his thing, right now it gives the impression that he's trying to do too many things and as a result struggles to produce his best attributes consistently.

 

[balaks]

That's unfair. He isn't a winger, nor a goal scoring one. You should compare him to players in his role. Others have already done it by comparing to Zidane, Scholes, Pirlo, Keane etc.

You are setting him up for a big fall if you start making comparisons to any of them right now.

 

[Stacks]

Needs to mature and start bossing games more, something I'm sure he'll do at some point in the future. We also need better movement off the ball from other players to give him more options, sometimes you can see what he wants to do, the pass he's looking for but others are too slow to react or anticipate his intentions, which then means he often tries to do too much himself and gets frustrated when it doesn't come off.

We need another midfield option to free him up, take some of the defensive work away and just let him do his thing, right now it gives the impression that he's trying to do too many things and as a result struggles to produce his best attributes consistently.

Miki has fantastic movement. Ibra also.
We have played him in a 10 and 433 to free him up, but he wasn't the best playmaker/orchestra, the output wasn't great. Someone will mentioned he "should be on double figures for assists if Ibra could finish" yet Sigurdsson is on double figures in assists and I wouldn't regard him as someone we should sacrifice other players for.

 

[Stacks]

You are setting him up for a big fall if you start making comparisons to any of them right now.

I know. Others have suggested he is ahead of what they were at this age which is why I brought them up