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I'd almost have to assume you never saw Ronaldinho during that period if you need to ask.
Weird thing to say tbh just because I dont agree with you, its not like its trivial either. Apart from pure skills/tricks (which might not even be a thing that Messi cant, but just isnt really a part of his game) there's nothing where I think Messi hasnt come close to Ronaldinho or bettered. Maybe the entertainment factor as well.
The ONLY thing Zidane has over Pogba RIGHT NOW is the ability to stand up and show his best form in big important games. Pogba in my eyes is equally as talented, there's nothing Zidane did that Pogba can't. IF Pogba can consistently effect the big games and keep his goals/assists high then he will surpass him IMO.
Zidane was a fantastic player, but it's because he effected world cup finals and European finals that people hold him even higher.
Zidane was a fantastic player, but it's because he effected world cup finals and European finals that people hold him even higher.
flik flaks, juggling, bicycle kicks, amazing penalties, chopping players, no look passes, flamboyant passes with his back or back of the heel
Rocket strikes, toe-punt goals, under the wall free-kicks.
Basically lots of improvisation stuff.
I wouldnt go that far, pogba is miles better than the current zidane. The guy is retired ffs.
Just like I said, skills/tricks/entertainment factor, but do you really think Messi isnt capable of most of that? They're not really neccessary if you're effective.
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So just all the amazing improvisation stuff aside, Messi can do everything Ronaldinho can.
Fair enough, I'd go with that.
I dont think Messi cant tbh, it's rather not a part of his game. He's probably the most effective player I've ever seen, what Ronaldinho did with flicks, flik flaks etc, he has the same effect with a simple body feint. Neymar for example does those same things as well, to act as if Ronaldinho is some God who no one has ever comed close to, seems slightly exaggerated.
Lol calm down mate - you have basically said that Pogba is better than Zidane. I think you need to take your tablets. Zidane was famously a late developer - I suggest you go and watch some classic Zidane clips to refresh your memory of what an absoutely amazing player he was. Pogba needs to improve considerably to be mentioned in the same breath as Zidane imo - not saying he can't do it but it's far from a certainty.
At 23 years old there is certainly a discussion to be had. Pogba has all the tools. But can he dominate games and show the footballing intelligence of Zidane. Only time will tell. The future is very bright though.
No I don't. Messi loves football and plays the way he can. He has played like this since he was a boy. It's just not his game. He is great at what HE does. I don't think for one moment he can do all the tricks the likes of Okocha and Ronaldinho can do as it takes a certain type of flair and also practice. Messi is the greater direct runner though.
Not saying he wont become a top class player - I believe he will - it's another thing entirely to suggest he will be as good as or better than Zidane.
Lets agree to disagree, I think he plays the way suits him best/is most effective to him. Just like C.Ronaldo changed from the whole tricky winger to the goalscoring poacher, not that he isnt capable of other playing styles.
Agree! But it won't be through lack of skill. I think that's the point people are trying to make.
Its an interesting conversation and quite tight. Was Pogba at this age 23/24 necessarily better than Zidane or was it simply that Pogba moved to a top team and hence into the limelight/international attention earlier? Pogba is 24 in 2 months. At age 24, Zidane was voted best player in France ahead of Dugarry, Djorkaeff and subsequently bought by the best team in Europe, Juventus (Champions League winners). That's the equivalent of Real Madrid or Barcelona buying Pogba. At the time Serie A was genuinely the strongest league and his impact was immediate, winning foreign player of the year ahead of all the big money world stars that existed in Serie A at the time. pretty impressive
The thing that separates great players to world renowned legends is their performances in big crucial games. The legends in the past(Zidane, Ronaldinho, Brazilian Ronaldo etc.) and current players who are destined to go on to become legends(Messi and Ronaldo) have shown their mettle at the highest level, against some of the biggest teams.
It's all good to look immense against Sunderland and Middlesbrough and it's vitally important for us as a team that he dominates those games but for his personal fame and legendary status, he will have to dominate derbies, CL games against the best in Europe, World Cup/Euro games against top dogs.
It's all good to look immense against Sunderland and Middlesbrough and it's vitally important for us as a team that he dominates those games but for his personal fame and legendary status, he will have to dominate derbies, CL games against the best in Europe, World Cup/Euro games against top dogs.
Sure but Pogba has just joined the biggest club in the world ;-)
Joking aside he could easily be at Real. But we paid the fee and he wanted to come. We are also in a big transitionary period whereas The Juve team that Zidane joined had just won the CL the season prior. This provided a great platform to perform from. Pogs has not been given a similar platform and despite a slow and confused start by the team, manager and himself occasionally he is now looking a consistent worldy.
Only time will tell really. But personally I don't expect a Zidane but I do hope for a player to take us to CL finals.
Exactly true, but we need to give him that platform at club level. Now he is starting to show consistently good performances for us, it'll be interesting to see how he fares in the next big game. For France in the Euros he was decent but limited by the 4-2-3-1.
He's won what? 4 league titles in Italy, played in CL and Euros finals all before turning 23!
This is very true. Always found him somewhat overrated. Great player but his career was largely defined by two headers and one magical swing of his left-foot.
This is just bizarre and maybe Zidane was before your time. The defining aspect of Zidane's abilities can be echoed by one of our current players (Zlatan) which elevates him above other great players and potentially Ronaldinho.
“When Zidane stepped onto the pitch, the 10 other guys just got suddenly better. It is that simple. It was magic. He was a unique player. He was more than good, he came from another planet. His team-mates became like him when he was on the pitch.” — Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
True story. Pogba is more individual. Zidane can spread his magic throughout the team. The difference is remarkable. Zidane leads the orchestra. Pogba needs everything set up perfectly just for him to perform. Zidane is the leader, the general. Pogba is more the luxury. Its a huge gap really.
Pogba is still promise.
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This. Ronaldinho never gets his due credit, he had so many ways to beat people and manipulate a football, it looked like he invented them on the fly and they worked 95% of the time. And based on the stories about his poor training habits, it's very likely he invented things on matchday. If I was given a choice to label only one player that I've watched play a magician, it would be Ronaldinho.
Zidane is certainly not before my time. And I don't disagree that he was a fantastic player. But there were others, and the bit that took him over the line were two headers in Paris and a volley in Hampden.
Voting for global individual honours has been famously skewed for years. Zidane won his first Ballon D'or following France 98' I'm guessing (without being bothered to check). Ronaldo was definitely the best player in the world then, and if he'd won the final, he'd probably been crowned as such.
Scoring that volley in Hampden, also added largely to his allure.
Take Rivaldo, who was also up there as one of the greats at the time, and also won a Ballon D'or or two I believe. Zidane has never had a club season like the ones Rivaldo had at Barcelona in my view. They are separated by moments I think. Both were number 10s, but Rivaldo was immense in Spain.
International achievement play way too big a role. The worst is when Ronaldo won the Ballon D'or in 2002 despite being injured for majority of the season,but returned in time to win the Golden Boot for the World Cup winning team. Ballack came second, who led Leverkusen as single-handedly as a player can, to the CL final (which Zidane defined), and then led Germany to the World Cup final the same summer, but his team again lost (Ballack himself was suspended for the final). No way did Ronaldo have a better year than him.
Taking away international football, Zidane was not the greatest player of his generation in his bread and butter of club football for me, and I don't think it was even close personally.
If someone said to me, you will be a regen and have one players ability, I would choose Ronaldinho
Dunno if this has been posted, but I saw this video of his month of December, top notch performances from him
In 1997 Zidane was 3rd Ballon D'or and 3rd World player of the year. No International tournament. 2002 he was 3rd in WPOTY despite a poor World Cup. 2003 he won WPOTY despite no International tournament. Most years Zidane was in the running for World Player of the year irrespective of internationals. Also my point still stands, when Zidane played, everyone peformed which is an effect that only the best midfielders could attribute. Rivaldo played LW under Van Gaal. Zidane may not have had a season like that in terms of statistics, but he isn't that kind of player. He is the orchestrator. It is the longevity of greatness that makes him the best of a generation as opposed to that "one great season"
He has been superb for us in the past few months. Only criticism i have about him is his shooting. He need to convert more chances that he's getting. Could definitely grab a goal every game if he improves on it.
You don't need to downplay Zidane to prove what Pogba is all about and what he can be and vice versa. Stick to Pogba's performances as these comparison threads will be done to death in the coming years.
Absolutely. I have Zidane down as my favorite player mostly because I had ages of time during a chunk of his dominance and have more memories of him destroying teams, but no doubt even from the little I watched him Ronaldinho was the better footballer.
Absolutely love our Paul, but there's some bizarre underrating of Zidane here.
Zidane at the Euro 96 was utter shit and he was older than Pogba.
For sure. But then on the other hand there's statements like 'Pogba will never be as good as Zidane' which is just as bizarre. We honestly cannot predict if he will or not.
True. It's automatic for the Caf to look at things as entirely black or white. FWIW, I think Le Pog achieving just 75% of what Zizou did will justify us spending 89m on him.
This
The biggest game of the season thus far is against Liverpool.
We need Pogba to run the game.
We need Pogba to run the game.
Yeah. Cant believe some of the shite I'm reading. The only midfielder of that type in the past 20 years who can touch Zidane has been Iniesta really. Pogba has buckets of talents but he'll do incredibly well to get close to those 2.
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