But he needs a rest. Look at how many games he's played this month. We really don't know how to rotate.
Patrice Evra | 2013/14 Performances
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You ain't wrong. And he was definitely better in the second half. But he can't allow himself to fall asleep as he does at times. It was pure luck that his worst lapse today didn't cost us a goal.
Good post. Some just cannot wait to have a moan.
Poor Ashley Young for instance was having an ok game , not much being said then he delivered a shite cross and the match day thread had a page full of "Young is shit"
For some reason most United fans seem to think that Evra will find this unacceptable and will leave when this happens. Its never really been explained. It may not be the case for all we know.
I think he still has a lot to offer for another 18 months at least if he is rotated and given a rest.
Considering he was jogging back in a close to crucial incident in what, the 20th minute of the match and he showed so much more energy in the second half i would really say that he was lazy today in the first half.
His contract is up in the summer and considering his age and standing (would want to continue as a key member and not a squad-player i believe) i don't think it will be renewed.
Edit to address the tone i had, pills and all... Sorry Mel.
he was absolutely woeful in the first half, but fair play to him he sorted himself out and got back on track in the second.
Like others have stated though, we cannot keep expecting 100% top levels when he hardly ever get's rested, especially 2 games in 2 days.
Like others have stated though, we cannot keep expecting 100% top levels when he hardly ever get's rested, especially 2 games in 2 days.
Yes - I tend to think of him as an all or nothing kind of player myself: not the sort who would be happy turning more and more into a squad player. But you're absolutely right - I can't explain why this should be the case. And maybe it isn't.
He has featured so much and so regularly for us over the years that it's difficult to picture him in a more peripheral role - perhaps that's where it comes from.
Even if he's uspset by that and decides to leave after a year of battling for his place, where's the big problem? He probably hasn't got that long to go either. If he leaves at 33 or something like that, it's fine. We have to think forward anyway. We have no real alternatives for him right now, that's just poor (though I think Fabio should be given a chance, but that ain't happening).
We need to get someone in, absolutely. If we can do a deal in January, all the better. The fact is that in terms of rotation we have played Evra like a keeper. He has played continuously barring injuries (of which he has had very few). It's an unnatural state of affairs, really. Get someone in and rotate in a more normal fashion to begin with. Evra will either benefit from this (getting more rest, playing more sharply when he gets the chance as a result) - or he will decide it's time to move on. Natural as can be, that too.
Young was positive until our whole team crept into collective spineless mode. Certainly didn't hide, and tried to make things happen.
Evra though was horrible in the first half. Absolute liability. Improved somewhat in the second half.
It's happening every other game. He needs to go. Sadly, he's done and won't ever be a top player again.
Holy shit you all speak of him as he is ready to have his funeral soon... He is 32 in a top condition as a athlete... The only thing is that he wont get any younger. He had a rubhish game today but so did some others.. Evra has been great this season but sadly I think this is his last season for us..
He's been horrible every other game. Can't defend for toffees anymore.
He didn't though... he had a rubbish first half, the second he was very good - though we know which half most will focus on...
I've been a staunch defender of his on here for ages, but I don't remember him ever having a string of matches in a United shirt as poor as his last three or four. Today was the worst I've ever seen him. That's not a hysterical exaggeration, it's my considered opinion. A player as average as Snodgrass was going past him as if he wasn't there every time he got that ball. You could have played someone out of position there - Jones, for example, or Fletcher - and they would have put in a much better showing.
Indeed. That lapse was awful, and I think it is happening with too high a frequency. However, that doesn't mean that people have to have such a limited recollection.
See, I don't get what you are saying at all. His first half was everything you describe. Snodgrass (who is having a fairly decent season), got nothing from Evra in the second half - nothing at all. You don't mention that at all; your entire focus is on that first half. It makes me wonder what being a supporter really is about.
Admittedly, I've been too negative concerning Young, but when he's good he's good and that shouldn't be taken away from him. He had some very good moments today, but overall quite average for me - certainly nothing to moan about.
Certain players seem to get a lot of stick no matter. They threads are as silent as a tomb whenever they play well - see Rio of last season - and yet they come alive every time they have a sub-par performance. There's been a lot of talk about zombie-passing, but there seems to be a lot of vampire-posting on here. (that was god-awful - good night
)Fair enough, you're right that he improved in the second half, (though partly that was down to how much better Welbeck was at keeping the ball and defending in midfield than Giggs.) But 'nothing at all' is ridiculous. Even on the limited MOTD highlights you can see two attacks in the second half where Norwich walk right past him. His 'improved' second half performance still wasn't anywhere near good enough.
Leave it out, will you. No-one will ever be able to have a discussion on here if any criticism of the players is met with silly bollocks like this. I'm not shouting abuse at him from the stands or writing shit on twitter/facebook/whatever, I'm discussing how poor he was in a post-match analysis on an internet forum.
It's quite simple. There's reasons we've not been up to scratch this season and Evra's performances are part of it. They've been sub-par.
You can discuss the reasons for his loss of form to death but it's been years since he's been reliable and I don't think he's giving us enough attacking wise that it's worth the loss of defensive solidity to play him anymore. In fact I think it's quite some time since it was worth it.
You can discuss the reasons for his loss of form to death but it's been years since he's been reliable and I don't think he's giving us enough attacking wise that it's worth the loss of defensive solidity to play him anymore. In fact I think it's quite some time since it was worth it.
It's not really a great defence (excuse the pun) is it - "he was shit in the first half but he made up for it in the second". I love Evra & his attitude & love for the club makes him a legend in my eyes but IMO, it's borderline criminal for players of his experience & ability to lose focus as often as he does these days.
Was an appalling first half & he needs to sort it out, rest or not.
Was an appalling first half & he needs to sort it out, rest or not.
He was the MOM? 
agree. this will be his last season. will be sad when he is gone.
"Oh feel sorry for him...he's played every match for 4 years"
Yeah
Irwin...Almost every match between 1991-2000
Cop on!!
Yeah
Irwin...Almost every match between 1991-2000
Cop on!!
First time ive ever realised it but he has to be replaced, the jogging back in vital situations isnt him, I dont want him replaced by a 29 year old either, Coentrao or Luke Shaw please
Doesn't work that way. Giggs plays till 40 and not many others can't. Maybe with a bit of rotation, Evra can be a top resource for couple more years! I would say it is criminal that we don't get to see Fabio starting or even Buttner at later stages when Evra is obviously tired.
Looked dead on his feet for periods yesterday. Badly needs a rest as his performances are dropping. Only problem with that is Buttner is utter garbage and Fabio isn't even being looked at for game time.
Once Baines joins next month he'll have plenty of time to rest...
As you say, part of Evra's problem in the first half was that he got no help from the midfield. It's alarming how often our fullbacks are isolated against one or two attackers. It happened a lot to Smalling as well - he's just impossible to get past. Nothing at all might be overdoing it, but fact is that he played a very good second half. He defended well, won the headers he lost in the first half and generally contributed a lot more to our play than in the first half.
I never said one couldn't criticize players; I believe I called Evra's first half abysmal, which it was. However, when no one is able to focus on the way he lifted his game to the second half, then I question what being a supporter means. Are we here to recognize only the bad play? When discussing a player, I think one should be able to mention the bad with the good. People are focusing too much on the bad. Why did you not discuss, in the post-match analysis, how poor he was but also how he picked himself up?
What bothers me about Evra is that I think it's more mental than physical. He looked sharper in the second half than in the first and took the runs defensively that he didn't in the first. He also looks a lot, and I mean a lot, quicker running into attack than when trying to catch players in defense.
Spot on. He's knackered and unsurprisingly so as he's been overplayed for seasons. It was bound to catch up on him at some point. He'd still be a good little player if afforded a bit of a rest from time to time.
Added to the fact that our left wingers want to drift inside all the time meaning that no one is covering Evra (unless Young/Welbeck play there) so he ends up spending most games trying to stop the oppositions RW and RB by himself. Of course he's going to come out worse when it's 2v1 a lot of the time. I'm still not sure which of Kagawa/Giggs was meant to be playing on that flank in the first half. No wonder he improved in the second half when the team shape was more discernible.
On a general note I think we can conclude that midfield is key - as it always seems to be these days for us: Evra commits himself to such an extent going forward that it's impossible to defend properly at the same time. This has nothing to do with either laziness or being knackered - it's a matter of priorities. If you want a fullback who is offensive to that degree you have to pay a price for it.
And unless you want to field a pair of "defensive wingers" (which we really shouldn't as it is bound to hamper our style considerably) you need at least one midfielder who can share a bit of the defensive burden, pick up runners, cover the space left by the fullback when he bombs forward, etc. This midfielder needs to be fairly mobile and fairly quick. Phil has been just about the only one we've had available who fits the bill. Hopefully Fletcher can now provide a bit of this as well.
None of this excuses being asleep on the job, though. That's a different problem altogether.
And unless you want to field a pair of "defensive wingers" (which we really shouldn't as it is bound to hamper our style considerably) you need at least one midfielder who can share a bit of the defensive burden, pick up runners, cover the space left by the fullback when he bombs forward, etc. This midfielder needs to be fairly mobile and fairly quick. Phil has been just about the only one we've had available who fits the bill. Hopefully Fletcher can now provide a bit of this as well.
None of this excuses being asleep on the job, though. That's a different problem altogether.
from MEN.
He's like a fan!
How can you not love Evra. He just needs a rest.
He's awesome. The interview they showed on Sky before the Aston Villa game says everything about Evra.
I don't know if it's Evra himself or our insistence on playing him every game as long as he is still able to walk but either way we have succeeded in clearly establishing him as the weakest link in our defence and inviting our opponents attack down that side and fill them with confidence in doing that.
He looks like he is liable to atleast a couple of "switched off" moments in a game and it really depends on whether the opponents are good enough to convert it.
I also have to admit that I've never seen a player whose role demands him to run up and down the pitch as much as Evra's, to be played so continuously without any sort of break or rest.
He looks like he is liable to atleast a couple of "switched off" moments in a game and it really depends on whether the opponents are good enough to convert it.
I also have to admit that I've never seen a player whose role demands him to run up and down the pitch as much as Evra's, to be played so continuously without any sort of break or rest.
Yeah, Evra is the only fullback in the world that runs up and down the pitch all the time(I agree that he is playing too much, and that he needs rest though).
No one is denying his admiration for the club. He seems to be bleeding United these days, so to speak. But it's just stupid how he just nonchalantly jogs back at times after being skinned by a player. I mean, what is going through his mind?
Our expectations from a full back from both offensive and defensive perspective is much different to other clubs and I didn't think that needed an explanation.
Why is that? If anything, we always had excellent centre backs playing behind our fullbacks, and selection of our wingers in last two years has mostly been down to their defensive quality, we seem like the only top club who is picking wingers first judging by their defensive quality, so I don't see why should our full backs be treated better than any other top clubs fullbacks, if anything, there are few arguments against that.
I think the difference with our full backs, particularly Evra as he is almost always the wide threat from the left side is the absence of midifelders who provide the right cover. Having a good centreback on your side is important, as is a winger who will track back, but when we're caught with the fullback and winger up the pitch then you need midfielders who are in a position to cover and we only really have had Carrick around in recent seasons who can do that but he can't be everywhere. Positionally, especially from a defensive stand point, Clev, Jones, Giggs have all been found wanting in recent seasons and Scholes didn't have the legs to give the cover. I think that has hindered Evra as he needs get back very quick often.
That's not to say he hasn't had his own problems, he gets caught napping a fair bit and seems a bit slow to react to clear danger at times, but in fairness I think if he wasn't having to expend as much energy as he does then it wouldn't be such an issue and he'd be a bit sharper.
That's not to say he hasn't had his own problems, he gets caught napping a fair bit and seems a bit slow to react to clear danger at times, but in fairness I think if he wasn't having to expend as much energy as he does then it wouldn't be such an issue and he'd be a bit sharper.
For me, he definitely needs a rest, but he has to play against Tottenham. He should be given a rest against Swansea. I have no idea why he played against Stoke though, that was a great chance to give him rest. He's playing a more demanding role this season. He's dribbling more with the ball. Last season, in the league, he completed 28 dribbles. He's at 15 already this season. I know it's not much, but he's doing a bit more. The Aston Villa game summed it up for me. We didn't attack much down the left (as Rafael changes the dynamic of our team), which meant that Evra could sprint back. That was shown in the final stages when he was high up the field, with Aston Villa building an attack, and he immediately sprinted back to his position.
Not that I'm disagreeing with you or anything, but him being on 28 last season and having 15 already half-way through this season - it's pretty similar.
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