Paris terror attacks on Friday 13th

Americano said:
I've just read a report that the first explosion at the stadium came after a man wearing a bomb vest tried to enter the stadium with a ticket 15 minutes after the match started. Security found the bomb and then he detonated it.

I am struggling to understand how the match was allowed to continue and nothing was done to warn or protect the people inside the stadium. At least one more bomber tried to get in.
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They locked everyone inside the stadium and increased security, meaning no one in or out. That is very much doing something to protect everyone inside. Telling everyone would have caused a mass panic, not telling them was very much done to protect them.

Keeping the match going was another attempt at curbing any panic, and was IMO absolutely the correct call.
 
Americano said:
I've just read a report that the first explosion at the stadium came after a man wearing a bomb vest tried to enter the stadium with a ticket 15 minutes after the match started. Security found the bomb and then he detonated it.

I am struggling to understand how the match was allowed to continue and nothing was done to warn or protect the people inside the stadium. At least one more bomber tried to get in.
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The stadium was probably one of the best protected places in Paris yesterday and the people in charge probably thoght it was best to continue the game to avoid mass panic.
 
Jerch said:
Why did he tried to enter 15 min late when he surely could easiy infiltrate into crowd before the kick-off. Not that I am not happy that he didn't managed to get into the stadium but I just wondered that when I read he did tried to enter 15 min late.
Also I wonder if other two wanted to get into a stadium after the first one but only after first guy failed to enter they decided to blew themselves.
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Thank god he turned up late.
 
Plus there's always the fear that the terrorist would have anticipated that sort of evacuation and would have a second attack planned to take advantage of it.
 
Jerch said:
Why did he tried to enter 15 min late when he surely could easiy infiltrate into crowd before the kick-off. Not that I am not happy that he didn't managed to get into the stadium but I just wondered that when I read he did tried to enter 15 min late.
Also I wonder if other two wanted to get into a stadium after the first one but only after first guy failed to enter they decided to blew themselves.
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I'm just speculating here but he probably wanted to detonate after kick off for maximal exposure, the other two could have been meant to detonate outside the stadium among the people fleeing the first explosion. Whatever way it was meant to go down it was very lucky that they failed because had they managed to detonate in the 60,000 crowd the death toll would have devastating.
 
phelans shorts said:
They locked everyone inside the stadium and increased security, meaning no one in or out. That is very much doing something to protect everyone inside.
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That makes sense and it's a blessing that it worked. I would just worry that someone else might have already gotten into the stadium or there was some larger attack underway that could threaten a huge number of people instead of just a few.
 
Mockney said:
Any form of politicising a current tragedy I find rather tasteless. Whether it's Palestine, Israel, or the ubiquitous "Where are all the headlines/retweets for the daily tragedies in X, Y and Z?"...It's a form of self important outrage that aims to make others feel bad for sharing well meaning sympathies.

It also not only implies the person in question is more caring than you - whilst both implicitly demeaning both you and the tragedy in question - it also implies they're better, because they're upset about the "right" things. Those things usually being things and causes they've more sympathy with, a sympathy that's inherently better than your sympathy.

The whole thing is rather intellectually nasty IMO. Agenda dressed up as egalitarianism.
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Yeah, I can understand your view. I know majority of people are like that. Not everyone though.


Revan said:
Because they were at the same day that 'Pray for Paris' photos were going. It was at best case a 'no-one cares for us, why we should care for them', and at worst case a total lack of empathy, if not agreeing with those events.
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I am sure neither of those people doesn't lack empathy for victims in Paris, after all, I am sure there were many Muslims killed last night too so there is no reason why they would care more about Muslims from Palestine than Muslims from Paris. They are just showing that world should care about Palestine too, and that world is showing its selfish side because after one terrorist attack like this everyone prays for Paris yet tens/hundreds(?) people are killed every day in Palestine and no one is showing any empathy, even though killings in Palestine are probably easier to stop than these terrorist attacks. After all, consequences are the same, innocent people are dying both cases.

At least that's how I see it, but then people on facebook are acting totally different than they usually are in real life, Mockney probably makes good point above.
 
Eyepopper said:
Some of you are over estimating the 'choice' made by many women to enter convents, in Ireland at least, down the generations I feel.

Not to mention how many Catholic parents forced their kids to follow their faith at least to the same degree as Muslims.

Also as far as I know plenty of women choose to wear hijab.

It is a fair point that no one should be forced to follow any religion all the same.



Not many, but a fair few were abusers of children and women, and had some pretty questionable roles the adoption/sale of babies over the years.
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We have to talk about what's happening right now though, Popper. Many bad things were done in the past and they can't be changed, sadly.
 
To be honest, at this point I'm happy that nothing big has happened since. The way things were going last night it seemed like there'd be even more horrible news pouring in by the hour. I'm absolutely shocked by the events and I agree with what another poster said who found it difficult to focus on anything since this has happened. Nothing I was working on really feels as important as drawing conclusions from these events and finding political answers to the threat on European security that ISIS presents.

Attacks like this one are trying hurt the Western world from within. They are direct assaults on our ideology, our freedom, and especially on our psychological wellbeing. They're killing random innocent people in order to spread fear amongst everyone else. In a way these attacks are aimed at everyone and therefore might once again alter the lives of everyone in the Western world.

I'm not a pessimist usually but a part of me has been waiting for further horrific news headlines to fill the papers today. I'm absolutely glad that didn't happen and I'm thankful the security personnel/police around Europe has been alert and has caught multiple suspects today.

What makes me proud throughout all this is that we, who share the same ideology, and who all come from different nations, are all sticking together and will deal with this threat together. I'm expecting the Western world and its people to act as one here in order to keep our world safe and in order to stabilize the Middle East as a region again.
 
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the hea said:
I'm just speculating here but he probably wanted to detonate after kick off for maximal exposure, the other two could have been meant to detonate outside the stadium among the people fleeing the first explosion. Whatever way it was meant to go down it was very lucky that they failed because had they managed to detonate in the 60,000 crowd the death toll would have devastating.
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Yeah but if he would tried to get inside before kick-off like most he 1) could easier infiltrate into crowd and it is more likely that he wouldn't be checked as much as he was and 2) if security would discovered the bomb he would have more targets around.
TBF when he would get inside there wouldn't be no way back. Thank God he didn't.

Your second speculation about other two waiting people rushing out is interested and just show how lucky we were that plan didn't worked.

The second thing I always wondered why people don't rush into attacker in a situation like it was in Bataclan. I mean nerly 100 people died there surely if that 100 people would attack the attackers they could managed to bring them down with less people death. Why lay down when you are easiest target that way.
 
Americano said:
That makes sense and it's a blessing that it worked. I would just worry that someone else might have already gotten into the stadium or there was some larger attack underway that could threaten a huge number of people instead of just a few.
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That is a very legitimate worry, but they also had the opposite to worry that there could be a crush or even other bombers/gunmen outside waiting to pick off anyone leaving, as seems like was the actual case.

It's an incredibly difficult situation to be in, and at the stadium at least they seem to have judged it perfectly, thankfully.
 
NoLogo said:
Of course not it's already too late for this, we have done too much damage for it just to be over all of a sudden if we disappear. We need a Marshall Plan for the middle east. Rebuild these countries, give them an infrastructure that can help them build a democratic society, it will take it's time and it will be expensive and we will have to take some hits on the chin to make it happen but the alternative is even worse.

Every time our drones throw bombs on their houses we will provide the soil that extremism thrives on and this cycle of violence will never stop.
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The US tried that in Iraq but had to deal with resistance from the Iraqis and foreign-backed militants. The Iraqi people didn't want to fight for it themselves so it's pointless to attempt if they aren't willing to devote themselves to rebuilding and modernizing. They'd rather maintain their tribal/sectarian loyalties and fight for control than live in a modern society.
 
So nuns attacked the people in Paris? Or is this the usual Internet deflection that takes place that at the end of the day has nothing to do with the events and is is just some sort of Internet point scoring bit?
 
Sir Matt said:
The US tried that in Iraq but had to deal with resistance from the Iraqis and foreign-backed militants. The Iraqi people didn't want to fight for it themselves so it's pointless to attempt if they aren't willing to devote themselves to rebuilding and modernizing. They'd rather maintain their tribal/sectarian loyalties and fight for control than live in a modern society.
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I highly doubt that. Naturally they were facing opposition but the US also didn't really try to rebuild. They tried to get some people into power they thought might do a good job in that country but chose the wrong ones. It's also quite extensively documented how little of a plan the US had for what should follow after the war was one and that was one of the major difficulties they faced. The whole thing went up in flames because the US had no plan and did a shitty job and not because they are all savages in that area of the world like you seem to believe.
 
Sir Matt said:
The US tried that in Iraq but had to deal with resistance from the Iraqis and foreign-backed militants. The Iraqi people didn't want to fight for it themselves so it's pointless to attempt if they aren't willing to devote themselves to rebuilding and modernizing. They'd rather maintain their tribal/sectarian loyalties and fight for control than live in a modern society.
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Given the oil wealth in the region they are more than capable of their own Marshall Plan. Plus many would probably take offense at the west trying to help them rebuild if it did not all fit their own personal view on what should be done and how.
 
Jerch said:
Yeah but if he would tried to get inside before kick-off like most he 1) could easier infiltrate into crowd and it is more likely that he wouldn't be checked as much as he was and 2) if security would discovered the bomb he would have more targets around.
TBF when he would get inside there wouldn't be no way back. Thank God he didn't.

Your second speculation about other two waiting people rushing out is interested and just show how lucky we were that plan didn't worked.

The second thing I always wondered why people don't rush into attacker in a situation like it was in Bataclan. I mean nerly 100 people died there surely if that 100 people would attack the attackers they could managed to bring them down with less people death. Why lay down when you are easiest target that way.
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I think when you are in a situation like that there is just so much fear that it's hard to get yourself to attack like that, there is no way to make sure that a lot of people attack at the same time and there will be always the fear that if only a few people attack then it is almost certain death. Machine guns are incredibly scary and I can see why people don't get the courage to attack.
 
Penna said:
We have to talk about what's happening right now though, Popper. Many bad things were done in the past and they can't be changed, sadly.
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Fair point penna, I've veered wildly off topic. Its the sleep deprivation!

JustAFan said:
So nuns attacked the people in Paris? Or is this the usual Internet deflection that takes place that at the end of the day has nothing to do with the events and is is just some sort of Internet point scoring bit?
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Yeah, thats exactly what I said, well done. :rolleyes:
 
MJJ said:
http://childabuserecovery.com/are-catholic-priests-and-nuns-murdering-their-own-children/
http://catholicchurchabusebynunsandpriests.blogspot.nl/
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=80960
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Give large numbers of adults power over children, and some - in this case a small minority - will abuse it - particularly when the physical chastisement of children was universally accepted. Once kids leave their homes and are delivered into the hands of genetically unrelated strangers, they're not safe. Regardless of what uniforms those strangers are wearing. In an Irish educational system, largely run by religious orders since the foundation of the State, a clean bill of health would have been a greater miracle than the loaves and fishes.

Personally, my early education was at the hands of 'the nuns'; and they were great, far nicer than the lay teachers I had subsequently.
 
Two major attacks in two weeks against European countries, disgusting individuals.

I really do worry what world my two young girls are growing into.
 
phelans shorts said:
They locked everyone inside the stadium and increased security, meaning no one in or out. That is very much doing something to protect everyone inside. Telling everyone would have caused a mass panic, not telling them was very much done to protect them.

Keeping the match going was another attempt at curbing any panic, and was IMO absolutely the correct call.
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They weren't locked in?

They were allowed to leave, those on the pitch were seemingly those that left near the exits that were attacked and ran back in for safety.look at all the video and even with all those on the pitch, 3/4 of the crowd is outside.
 
wtf is going on.

Just seen that the police are raiding a hotel in Paris?

Edit: Seems to have been a false alert. Station was closed and Eiffel Tower evacuated. :/
 
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NoLogo said:
I highly doubt that. Naturally they were facing opposition but the US also didn't really try to rebuild. They tried to get some people into power they thought might do a good job in that country but chose the wrong ones. It's also quite extensively documented how little of a plan the US had for what should follow after the war was one and that was one of the major difficulties they faced. The whole thing went up in flames because the US had no plan and did a shitty job and not because they are all savages in that area of the world like you seem to believe.
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It's not as though there was extensive planning for Europe until two months before VE Day. Instead of fighting efforts to rebuild, the war-torn countries generally cooperated with the occupiers who helped return them to prosperity. In Iraq, sectarian violence gave any plans for rebuilding Iraq no chance for success. They didn't just attack occupying forces either. They attacked civilian populations in Iraq further entrenching sectarian differences that ensured governance was virtually impossible. Compare the conditions of Kurdistan to the rest of Iraq. It's substantially better.
 
At the moment the French prosecutor has only confirmed the identity of one of the terrorists, he was at the Bataclav and was a 30 yr old French national who was known for being a common criminal but had never been to prison. Interestingly the prosecutor mentioned that this guy was known to have radicalised in 2010(not sure how they decide that) but there was no link to any terror activity and so he wasn't being followed
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
At the moment the French prosecutor has only confirmed the identity of one of the terrorists, he was at the Bataclav and was a 30 yr old French national who was known for being a common criminal but had never been to prison. Interestingly the prosecutor mentioned that this guy was known to have radicalised in 2010(not sure how they decide that) but there was no link to any terror activity and so he wasn't being followed
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Who the hell do they follow then
 
RedSky said:
wtf is going on.

Just seen that the police are raiding a hotel in Paris?

Edit: Seems to have been a false alert. Station was closed and Eiffel Tower evacuated. :/
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Seems to have happened earlier today, a hotel near the Eiffel tower was searched floor by floor, nothing came of it that's been noted.

Just found that on Sky News website and also seen the "Jihadi Jez" article.

Calling Corbyn Jihadi Jez is frankly disgusting from Sky or whoever their supposed sources are if they even have any.

Apparently he said it would have been better if we had captured Jihadi John and put him in front of a court, as is a fundamental foundation of our supposed civilisation, and as such he now apparently deserves to be labelled with that horrid tagline.
 
I can hear the screams in my head after seeing the footage from the mobile phone. It's terrifying. We must continue to live by our ideals and not let terrorists divide us. There are obviously many ways to deal with the threat, and I hope that they (our government and allies) are smart enough to do it in such a way that doesn't enhance the danger we already face.
 
Sir Matt said:
It's not as though there was extensive planning for Europe until two months before VE Day. Instead of fighting efforts to rebuild, the war-torn countries generally cooperated with the occupiers who helped return them to prosperity. In Iraq, sectarian violence gave any plans for rebuilding Iraq no chance for success. They didn't just attack occupying forces either. They attacked civilian populations in Iraq further entrenching sectarian differences that ensured governance was virtually impossible. Compare the conditions of Kurdistan to the rest of Iraq. It's substantially better.
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The mistakes they made during the rebuild attempt was to not take the devide between Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds into account. I remember during the time after there war there were a handful experts warning that keeping up a state with all these three ethnic groups mixed together was not going to be possible. So yeah you were probably right when you said that the people in Iraq weren't able to see past that in favor of a free democratic society but sometimes that's how it is a conflict that has been going on for so long won't just stop because you tell them to, the only thing able to stop this was the dictatorship by one faction or a separation of the different groups. In that sense I felt they didn't have a clue what they were doing when they tried to rebuild Iraq. Instead they went at it the good old american way, they gave their companies and contractors access to the local market to make their money and expected the people to welcome this with open arms.
 
fergieisold said:
The first thing I spotted was hard packed ice...unless they are in the high mountains, the picture can't be recent?
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The picture might not be recent, it's just police cars. But the story is.

botond said:
fck my life
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/paris-atta...arms-explosives-linked-french-attacks-1528726
how long till they hit in gemany :(
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They already tried twice. Once at the Cologne main station but the bombs didn't go off and the other one was the Sauerland group which they could arrest before they could carry out their attacks.

But I feel the attacks of yesterday have reached an entirely new level compared to those groups who pretty much operate on their own. Co-ordinated attacks in several locations carried out by people who probably have extensive arms and explosive knowledge and might even have been fighting in the war in Syria or Iraq. We are talking about military trained suicide squads now, that's really frightening.
 
NoLogo said:
I highly doubt that. Naturally they were facing opposition but the US also didn't really try to rebuild. They tried to get some people into power they thought might do a good job in that country but chose the wrong ones. It's also quite extensively documented how little of a plan the US had for what should follow after the war was one and that was one of the major difficulties they faced. The whole thing went up in flames because the US had no plan and did a shitty job and not because they are all savages in that area of the world like you seem to believe.
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They are not savages- they only don't give two shits about a western style democracy that you are so desperately trying to export, because it is not compatible with their culture and their religion. Democracy will never ever ever be a political and cultural component of the society in any Islamic Republic.
 
How are the authorities dealing with the people that come back from Syria, all trained and ready to fight?
Surely they must have intelligence on them?
As it's not limited to the French, other european countries have a lot of their citizens out there, surely it's only a matter of time before the shit hits the fan in Denmark, Belgium, the UK, etc.
 
Mihajlovic said:
They are not savages- they only don't give two shits about a western style democracy that you are so desperately trying to export, because it is not compatible with their culture and their religion. Democracy will never ever ever be a political and cultural component of the society in any Islamic Republic.
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Complete nonsense. Religion will gradually go away and be replaced by secular democratic governance. Religion dominated nation states will not be sustainable in a world with secular norms.
 
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