As much as thats true, its still rather hypocritical of us when we continue to do similar in the name of other less than legitimate causes.
Paris terror attacks on Friday 13th
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As much as thats true, its still rather hypocritical of us when we continue to do similar in the name of other less than legitimate causes.
So you are saying that he cannot be from Syria cuz he has a Syrian passport?
Or are holding to the argument that all these migrants (minorty of whom are refugees) are in fact good lads? Good but maube misunderstood?
How about we take seriously what IS said in early Feb? Didnt they say that they would send million of people to Europe and terrorists among them?
You mean US trying to end terrorism cause?
Most of the refugees were able bodied males. I'm not saying women can't be terrorist also but it should have been women and children first.
Not sure if serious.
He's not saying any of that, he's saying the same I said. Why do you take your passport to your death? Can it be desinformation?
I have no doubt where their resources and guidance came from, nor in which part of the world the core of people behind this live. We're just asking the same question that police will be asking themselves "is this passport legit? does it really belong to this dead pos?".
I completely agree with you. Ordinary peaceful Muslims (and there are plenty of those on this forum) must feel increasingly anguished about the anti-Muslim rhetoric. Every time there's a terrorist atrocity committed and the perpetrators claim it as a victory for the Muslim faith, their hearts must sink.
I can imagine how I would feel if I was in their shoes.
I worry for Europe now. France is paying the price for its uncontrolled border policy at a time when the whole continent is letting in anyone who wants to come. You cant reconcile with the way these people think, and we need to stop thinking we can if we want to stop this happening again. Discussing who is to blame for their existence is a complete waste of time and just diverts the issue. They are here now, they hate everything about us and they dont play to any rules. Until countries take a much harder line on extremism and stop pandering to various self interest groups there will be more bloodshed to come.
UN sources say as many as 76% of migrants (not refugees !!) were men.
I am not sure how two bolded parts are connected, and why exactly do you find "Pray for Palestine" photos as something bad?
Yes and no, the whole world of Muslims don't but we need to address the Saudi state funded missions that have been exporting their fundamentalist views across the world which is one of the main causes of the indoctrination of extremism for the last 36 years.
Terrorism is not a new concept nor is it Islamic.
The western world and Islamic worlds have been terrorising each other for thousands of years, and as bad as modern Terrorism is, is pales in comparison to atrocities that have gone before from both sides.
Western air strikes and other actions regularly kill many many civilians, the fact we claim they are mistakes and were targeted at Terrorists makes them no less atrocious.
IS is not a new thing, its just a new name. People seem to think these people woke up one day feeling a bit hatey and decided to go to war with the west. They didn't, they mostly grew up in a community that has likely never stop fighting an ancient war. IS is people who either believe in the cause or want to use that belief of others to further their own ends. That's no different to Christianity's past or the Western worlds.
Valid question, IMHO there are 3 possibilites.
1) to give credibility when IS claims the "credit"
2) technical reasons...they might have crossed.EU external border before the attack or needed passports as a proof of identity when id'd by a random police officer
3) mistake (only 2 passports found)
Everyone is using reasons to justify what they do but at the end of the day only terrorists kill innocent people. It has nothing to do with religion or the US intervention. It boils down to the decisions that are made to make suicide bombs with the sole intent of maiming and killing people. Anyone with any decency will stop and think about what they're doing but if you're animals like most of these people who are recruited then there's no remorse no second thought that I shouldn't be doing this.
I still can't believe people are arguing 'reasons'. They do it because they want to and it won't stop unless the world comes together and stop pointing fingers and realize the ones to be blamed are these terrorist organizations that will stem from any and everything.
Where did I say any of that
Sorry misread your post. Other poster explain it.
Apologies.
Where did I say any of that
It was non Syrian opportunist immigrants that were supposedly doing that. A Syrian passport was a passport into Europe. I don't think many would have been deliberately thrown away.
Hadn't thought of no. 1. Thanks.
Of course we know little at this point, but I can only imagine that if indeed they detonated suicide belts/vests, not a lot would be left of them and what they had on them.
That's utter BS because it doesn't apply to 99.9% of refugees. I worry for Europe because of nationalists and fashists across the continent, the rising egoism, lack of reflection and degree of hypocrisy.
When, in '91? We didn't go 'into' Iraq in '91. Only Kuwait supported the 2003 invasion.
Or it could be designed to try and spread ill feeling/suspicion/panic among people with regards to refuges in the hope that it creates conflict, increasing marginalisation and hoping that it drives more into the arms of fundamentalists recruiters.
wow.....just wow.
Oh I agree with all that and don't think it is result of only US intervention and a very stern reply is needed etc etc but saying "US is trying to end terrorism cause" doesn't sit right. US has many other motives for their intervention in ME.
See here is where I think we differ. I don't 'blame' the Turks any more than I 'blame' the powers for behaving like empires have behaved since time immemorial. Their actions are certainly factors in explaining how we ended up with the specific results we did, but I think a broader approach is needed to understand just why and how the region was changing. So in the Balkans, the Ottomans can be faulted not for their traditional system of rule (which worked pretty well in defining social relations and maintaining stability most of the time), but for failing to adapt it to the changing winds of nationalism in time as it spread among the Christians.
Similarly, it's hard to understand just why the postwar carve-up was so problematic without considering the role of the spread of nationalism among the Arabs, Zionists, Maronites, Turks, Kurds, etc., jostling for power in the aftermath of collapse (there is a some new scholarship emerging showing that the borders traditionally believed to have been 'artificial' were influenced as much by these local actors as by arbitrary British and French interests). Basically, my argument is that nationalism is to blame, but that it's hard to envision how it could have been significantly different given that nationalism was destined to shape the postwar world order. This is why when people are asked to provide an alternative arrangement to the partitions that actually occurred, there are no answers that can be given which you can say would definitely have provided order of the kind that the Ottoman system successfully provided for centuries.
I completely agree that the wealthy leaders from Saudi, Qatar and elsewhere who fund these scum need to be brought to justice. Where I disagree is with this idea that those individuals have anything to do with everyday, practising muslims.
I have worked in exclusive hotels and resorts across the Middle East and Indian Ocean where every Eid period, we would receive groups of very high profile leaders, Sheikhs and religious zealots who would let the people they lead believe they were travelling to Mecca or other symbolic regions for prayer, but were really checking into a remote island for 2 weeks of debauchery along with planes full of Eastern European prostitutes and oceans of alcohol.
The people twisting Islam to meet their own agendas are the last people to follow its values. When we attack Saudi Arabia, or other Arabic countries, or take it out on the muslims in our own countries, these wealthy individuals will not be the ones who suffer. They will be holed up at their resorts in the Maldives, Mauritius and the Seychelles. The devout, practising muslims who believe their rhetoric while they live their lives in squalor will be the ones who suffer and die.
Bolded part is unfortunately untrue, many govts do this routinely.
The sad thing, which often gets lost in these discussions, is the loss of life and family pain caused.
I do however agree with your point, every time this turns into a pantomime where by intolerance is met with further intolerance, masked behind shallow concern of course. I'm sure lit up buildings and painted pictured on Facebook will really help.
Wonder if Charlie Hebdo will take the piss out of the Paris casualties? Or maybe their 'humour' is reserved for dead Russian civilians.
Sorry, but as Feeding Seagulls says, this is completely untrue. And part of the reason that muslims are easily radicalised, is because the West kill innocent Muslims routinely, and a large body are oblivious.
Surely there should also be the inclination to clean up our own governments in the same way you suggest we clean up Islam?
They will probably take the piss out of Paris casualties in a similar way to what they did to the Russians
Im starting to think some of the caf's members are employed as spin doctors for our governments in their real lives.
Agreed.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-holds-the-world-record-of-killings-innocent-civilians/5393789
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present)
http://www.middleeasteye.net/column...ave-killed-four-million-muslims-1990-39149394
http://www.ippnw.de/commonFiles/pdfs/Frieden/Body_Count_first_international_edition_2015_final.pdf
I'm not suggesting that we clean up Islam. I don't see Islam as the problem but the people who use it to mask their own selfish agendas. I'm also all for cleaning up our own governments and not sure why the two would be mutually exclusive?
The problem comes in blaming devout and practising muslims for these problems when they have no more ability to "clean up" the corruption in their governments than you or I do in making changes in ours. In fact they have less because at least we can pretend we're making a difference by voting.
How can Europe remain so passive when the safety of our citizens within our borders is being threatened. "Standing side by side" and "prayers" is just more politically correct bullshit. Take a stand and tackle the problem.
And as they did after they've themselves been attacked in January.
Yeah that was America yesterday. I was obviously referring to incidents similar to what happened yesterday.
So what's the solution then? Bomb the shit out of some middle eastern countries?