Its the most puzzling to me. I understand that there might a pull for disillusioned youths. In other places it drives them into crime. But our traditional crime gangs in the west are kind souls compared to muslim extremists. How is the pull that strong?
Paris terror attacks on Friday 13th
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Its the most puzzling to me. I understand that there might a pull for disillusioned youths. In other places it drives them into crime. But our traditional crime gangs in the west are kind souls compared to muslim extremists. How is the pull that strong?
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over here there have been reports of Somali youth joining extremists Islamic groups. Obviously these are small numbers comparitively.
Just like gangsters might have a "code of honour", so does ISIS. For ISIS, they are performing the ritcheous will of god by killing and mutilating people. I can see how that would appeal to the wrong sort of person.
Some great posts by @rcoobc.
To the poster that mentioned Rome - it's not really Rome per se that they're after, more specifically the Vatican.
To @rednev - that verse you quoted are from Surah Al Anfal, which translates as 'The Spoils of War'. If you take verses out of their context, it's easy to misconstrue they're actual meaning. The verse is taken from a chapter which was revealed after the Battle of Badr, the first outright battle between the Quraish and the Muslims. As at the time, the Muslims were oppressed and victimised for practicing their religion, as it gave power and status to the lower ranks in society and did away with the old tribal power ranks found in Meccan society. As the Quraish perceived it as a threat, they decided to try and kill off the Muslims. Going back to the verse and Surah, this is centred on that Battle, and the verses all deal with specifically with that battle.
To the poster that mentioned Rome - it's not really Rome per se that they're after, more specifically the Vatican.
To @rednev - that verse you quoted are from Surah Al Anfal, which translates as 'The Spoils of War'. If you take verses out of their context, it's easy to misconstrue they're actual meaning. The verse is taken from a chapter which was revealed after the Battle of Badr, the first outright battle between the Quraish and the Muslims. As at the time, the Muslims were oppressed and victimised for practicing their religion, as it gave power and status to the lower ranks in society and did away with the old tribal power ranks found in Meccan society. As the Quraish perceived it as a threat, they decided to try and kill off the Muslims. Going back to the verse and Surah, this is centred on that Battle, and the verses all deal with specifically with that battle.
Over 1,500,000,000 Muslims in the world, the sad fact is that if 1,000,000 young people get brainwashed or knowingly join terrorist organisations because they see another 5,000,000 people believing in and fighting for a warped purpose it still reflects on Islam even though that is less than 1% of the religion. But 5,000,000 crazy people can still have such a massive effect on the whole planet if they decide to wreak havoc.
What can stop this? It will probably never stop completely, it is just the world we live in because the population will still grow and the circle will begin again.
What can stop this? It will probably never stop completely, it is just the world we live in because the population will still grow and the circle will begin again.
Terrible news to wake up to, and the death toll keeps climbing.
What i want to know is why this keeps happening in France? What have they done to allow it to take place and why are they seemingly the only ones unable to stop it?
What i want to know is why this keeps happening in France? What have they done to allow it to take place and why are they seemingly the only ones unable to stop it?
I guess that vote on Syria action will happen now.
But the gangsters don't really want to die, they don't kill indiscriminately. They just want power and wealth, but they retain a significant degree of their "westerness". Joining ISIS must be a complete 180, from going to some crap school in some crap neighborhood, but which still has public transit, electricity, etc. to destroyed Syria and just war and death.
Add: Not saying gangsters aren't bad, just that their aggressiveness towards society in general pales in comparison.
Can't image the backlash if it turns that some of the attackers were recently refugees from Syria(Which as you said could be possible).
I remember watching the vice doc about the girls(They would of been 2nd generation migrants) in the UK leaving to join ISIS and the parents really(Well at least to me)had no idea to why they left. It's really odd as it's not people who come over to western countries but people who are brought up in these countries that feel the need to join cults like ISIS.
As for which is worse it's impossible to tell, the backlash that will happen if some or all of the attackers are from refugees camps will be huge and you would have to image public opinion will turn very quickly. But having said that there's something really depression and evil about home grown terrorism, that someone brought up in their own society can hate it so much that he/she is want to kill their own people that they've lived beside for their entire lives is something else.
How do these idiots get a voice?
A tragedy regardless
It's as if all the genuinely evil people in the world are working together to create chaos and terror by joining IS.
I have no words.
Yeah, but you do get Western ISIS supporters. You get people who are out there supporting ISIS on twitter whilst living in London or Paris. Once the girls or guys join ISIS, there isn't really any coming back is there, so from that point on their views are moot. All ISIS need to do is encourage the view that their fight is sexy and right, and keep up their online propaganda war, and they will get supporters.
It would also be very easy to view what the western world is doing in those countries as wrong. These young people joining ISIS are watching their fellow muslims die whilst the west doesnt really give a crap. They are obviously on the wrong side by joining ISIS though, but maybe its down to lack of a better path.
Promises of power, women, money, acceptance, heaven, having their names etched in history. The ridiculous reasons many young people decide to go and fight for. Some people go just because they are actually mentally disturbed and just want to kill people. It is sad, disturbing but not shocking anymore. It is a cycle that has no sign of breaking at the moment.
A question I pose to everyone is how many people who go over to fight for ISIS want to be there once they actually arrive there? How would they get back home? They will most certainly be killed by ISIS members if they decide they don't want to be there anymore, they will be shunned and imprisoned if they tried to return home? Most of them will probably just have no choice but to go and kill themselves as they have gotten themselves in so deep without realising the magnitude of their decisions.
All I can say is thank christ they didnt get into the Stade de France proper. I wish that was also the case elsewhere
(Guardian)
As we all feared...the death toll is going to rise and significantly so -
Sickening, what a man can do to another man. RIP to all victims and their families.
Live updates at
https://www.reddit.com/live/vwwmdb26t78v
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-34815972
Live updates at
https://www.reddit.com/live/vwwmdb26t78v
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-34815972
Well... At least thats something.
Hard to find the positive in anything when you know how the likely blew themselves up
So sick and tired of this shite. Unfortunately, I don't know that there is a great plan to end it.
The ultimate outcome of this is freightening. This world is fecked up.
The ultimate outcome of this is freightening. This world is fecked up.
Despite all this madness... I'm going to bed jus very thankful that these idiots did not manage to get into the Stade De France. I honestly think that would have been bigger than 9/11.
Tonight could have been much much worse.
My thoughts and prayers to our brothers and sisters in paris.
Tonight could have been much much worse.
My thoughts and prayers to our brothers and sisters in paris.
For feck sake. Rip to all of those in Paris.
I really hope that France and the West as a whole have a solid plan to end this as soon as possible. They definitely don't but..
I was wondering why there were policeman on the streets of London with MP5s earlier, guess I know now.
I really hope that France and the West as a whole have a solid plan to end this as soon as possible. They definitely don't but..
I was wondering why there were policeman on the streets of London with MP5s earlier, guess I know now.
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FFS!! Speechless! RIP all the victims. Survivors will need all the support and comfort.
This shit gotta stop!
This shit gotta stop!
What a dickhead. Ask him about all the places that barely have anything to do with Western countries if that makes sense to kill innocent people there (e.g. Thailand), including Muslims (as in Indonesia).
Sad news . Rip.
What a world we live in.
. Rip. What a world we live in.
RIP to everyone involved.
I think it's actually time we started to negotiate with terrorists. I think the whole 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' is a bit outdated. I would suggest withdrawing all western troops from the middle east and see what they say.
I'm left wing in all aspects of current affairs and even UK politics but this has got to stop.
I think it's actually time we started to negotiate with terrorists. I think the whole 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' is a bit outdated. I would suggest withdrawing all western troops from the middle east and see what they say.
I'm left wing in all aspects of current affairs and even UK politics but this has got to stop.
Aye, I suppose the Stade De France attackers must've fecked up what could've been the worst of the attacks. Suicide bombings at a high profile match that was being televised around the world, would've been unprecedented.
Absolutely horrific news, thoughts go out to anyone affected by this hideous attack.
RIP to all the victims.
RIP to all the victims.
They'd still object to our support of Israel. Its actually pretty much the original grievance, which motivated terrorism ever since the 70s.
In their demands there would be things we're not willing to give up, and then what? That's why its a non-starter. The world becomes ruled by those most willing to commit violence.
They'd say "thanks very much for all the extra space to expand into, we look forward to bombing you again". They want to destroy western civilisation, they're not the kind of people you negotiate with.
Just found out about all of this. Terrible. It seems like nearly every other day there is some awful tragedy these days. What is wrong with some of the people in our world.
Terrible, RIP
There's really no room for compromise with people who want to destroy you
Our options for how to respond are so limited.
Hopefully the victims can be helped as best as can be managed
There's really no room for compromise with people who want to destroy you
Our options for how to respond are so limited.
Hopefully the victims can be helped as best as can be managed
To be honest mate I try and ignore him.
Won't make a difference. I'm fairly left-wing and peaceful myself, but these bastards won't be negotiated with.
160 dead as of this morning.
I hope this isn't used as a predicate to erode more civil liberties.