200 billion, fecking hell! That type of money would give Pakistan the best roads in south Asia.
Pakistan
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
Not being smart, but I'd say Pakistan already has the best roads in the region (I've not been to Sri Lanka or Bhutan). It's one of the main things the country can take pride in, their highways are really really good.
Pretty much
Our politicians don't get votes on mentioning India, infact there is little mention of India anywhere in the election. Unlike India.
Again this is bizarre timing to make this statement when the winning candidate mentions India in his bloody victory speech!
He mentioned all of the neighbors not just India and he did not victimize himself or play the popular card of we hate India which is what reddevil is claiming.
Our Dear Leader hasnt endorsed Khan yet, so until then, a section of our media will portray him negatively.@KM
http://zeenews.india.com/live-tv
I just watched this out of interest to see what they are sying, how do you watch this. They are all speaking over each other, I thought maybe I had another video playing in the background
The day our Dear Leader endorses him though, he'll be best thing since sliced bread, don't worry.
Regardless, Khan didn't really need to mention our media at all. Bizarre really. Should have left it mentioning the other bits about Indo Pak relations.
He mentioned all our neighbors, India is our neighbor as he had to say how he will try and shape any foreign policy. And when did he mention India it was by friendship.
During election times our politicians are too busy flinging dirt on each other to care about India. It doesn't win any votes.
Like Zlat said the Ahmadi issue will take time, if he can fix the economy and improve education/healthcare in the next five years that itself will help the situation a lot. For me, he should focus on fixing the key issues and then try and make us into a secular country in his next governance when his vote bank is more secure.
The money that has been looted is beyond imagination. The properties Nawaz was convicted on, right now he takes £60,000 a WEEK on them but even they are nothing. Billions have been ploughed in Dubai and London. It is rumored Nawaz has further 21 properties in UK.
His government where the absconder finance minister (his daughter's father-in-law) took more loans in 5 years than the previous SEVENTY year combined history of Pakistan, his brother took 400 crores but noone knows where any of it went. You won't believe seriously how corrupt politicians in Pakistan are.
Awesome speech. Very uplifting and motivating.
I understand why you'd find that desirable, but honestly that's one of the things I'd have in mind when I say that I'm skeptical at the rate of change the society can handle. Pakistani society is not going to secularize in the space of a decade or probably even five decades IMO. And I don't think it needs to anyway, I don't see much reason in theory why a state explicitly based on Islamic values and identity can't at the same time grant all of its religious minorities the freedom and space to identify and worship as they choose without fear of state and/or non-state regulation. In fact I'd say that finding that balance is key to making the country work in the modern world while retaining its original sense of purpose. It just needs a fresh way of thinking, away from the ulama and Islamists. But I'm probably over-stepping my boundaries here spouting this stuff as a non-Pakistani.
It'd be seriously naive to say that political leadership on either side doesn't care about the other country. Pakistan is the biggest threat to India's security so your leadership changes obviously will make our news (across the spectrum from shite like TimesNow to the more sane media houses). Anyway I don't want to digress this thread on a day where there's fresh hope for both Pakistan and Indo-Pak relations.
Thing is we were supposed to be a secular country until General Zia came into power and granted the Mullahs the power. The islam of the sub-continent has always been more sufi than wahabism until recently.
This is from Jinnah's speech when Pakistan gain its independence.
The current religiousness and intolerance isnt part of Jinnah's vision or what we used to be historically. That is what I ideally want when I say a more secular Pakistan but we need to take the power away from the Mullahs for that and this election is a good start towards it.
Except your constantly quoting our media whereas someone like me cannot recall the last time he saw anything from the Pakistani media.Pretty much
Our politicians don't get votes on mentioning India, infact there is little mention of India anywhere in the election. Unlike India.
Anyway, interesting development with Imraan's election. He seems to be reversed by the country. Good for you guys.
Secular state? Never going to happen. Ask the public Pakistani ka matlab kya - they'll reply La illaha illalallah. Pakistan is a state created by Muslims, as a homeland for Muslims, it's never going to be secular, but it's never going to be a theocratic state either. Everyone has a national identity, religion is a big part of ours, it's a cornerstone of our ethos. It begs the question what does that mean for non Muslim Pakistani's?
The answer to that is in the words above - “You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed—that has nothing to do with the business of the state".
We need to make Pakistan an example for the world, a Muslim majority state where islamic values and principles are entrenched in daily life, but where everyone is free to participate or not particpate in religion as they choose. The holy Quran teaches us there is no compulsion in religion.
I'd trace the beginnings of the Islamization of Pakistani politics back a little bit before Zia, to the aftermath of the '71 war. It was under Z. A. Bhutto after all that the anti-Ahmadi legislation was introduced under the pressure of the ulama and Islamists (there had been an anti-Ahmadi movement in the 50s that fizzled out). Agree with the rest of your post, it's encouraging to see him explicitly cite Jinnah's example alongside Muhammad in his speech.
When you have a snake cornered, crush it's head, don't release it to attack again. Musharraf made that mistake, look where it got us.
@MJJ India's bogeyman Hafiz Saeed put up 265 candidates including his son. Every single one of them lost.
If getting the billions and looted wealth back would help our economy I would do it. As he is going to come out eventually, even though he deserves to stay in jail for the rest of his miserable life.
Pakistan can request the details of the accounts, if they can prove wrong doing they can demand the money back. The money isn't all theirs, it belongs to loads of dodgy Pakistani's. Dar in fact promised to "bring it back" using some sort of tax treaty.
Yeah as I explained in my next post that's what I meant when I said a secular country, should probably have chosen a better word for it. For that to happen, we need to crush the maulvis and start all over again as they wont let us go to a more Islamic state, one where the minorities have freedom to live their lives and not be persecuted.
@MJJ India's bogeyman Hafiz Saeed put up 265 candidates including his son. Every single one of them lost.
I read that earlier when I was reading up on him. I am so glad all the religious parties and MQM lost, its almost as good as the PTI coming to power. Really feels like a fresh start, lets hope it lives up to it now.We won't get anything, atleast nothing from the British government. The UK should have seized his property but they haven't. They even let a proven killer like Altaf Hussain become a British national.
Yeah as I explained in my next post that's what I meant when I said a secular country, should probably have chosen a better word for it. For that to happen, we need to crush the maulvis and start all over again as they wont let us go to a more Islamic state, one where the minorities have freedom to live their lives and not be persecuted.
Imran Khan had an interesting approach in KPK. All the imams of the masjids were put on a government salary, in exchange they had to have certain educational requirements, and obviously toe the line - https://tribune.com.pk/story/159357...vt-pay-jamia-mosque-imams-monthly-honorarium/
This needs to be rolled out wider. In other muslim countries the state controls what is said at friday prayers. I don't agree with that, it seems a bit big brother, but getting all of these places, registered, inspected, monitored - it'll mainstream it.
A big part of extremism in Pakistan is due to the free reign these people were given. Anyone can setup a mosque, anyone can be an imam, preach what you like. Add this to the mix of shadow armies being trained by the ISI and tolerance of jihadi groups who were useful tools for doing the dirty work the state couldnt do itself - it led us to this mess. Add to the mix the drug money flying around, plenty of secular politicians were involved in this, trying to win votes, make friends, make a buck. The lal masjid mullah was caught with a bootload of weapons, he was released after interference by a politician. ASWJ and LJ used to provide security at noon league rallies. They would do seat adjustments together. it's a mess, but most of it is created through mismanagement. Get governance right - there will be a lot less mess to fix.
Well I do worry about China, and even you guys ought to - if you see it rationally. What they are doing is neo-colonialism in the garb of monetary assistance. They have done it to parts of SE Asia, and notably in many countries in Africa. Would hate to see Pakistan become a vassal state. You and us, are the same people. I live in the eastern part of India that is directly affected by China's expansionist policies, though few in the media openly say it. Wouldn't want another century of divide and rule - where London changes to Beijing.
He has already promised to publish the details of CPEC so will be an improvement even there on nawaz.
There are many reasons why we rely on China:
-Our reliance on US is getting less and less, which means we need new countries from which to get weapons from. We have a good home industry but it is not enough. Our relations with Russia are improving but China is the one that fills the gap, working with them developing fighter jets has given a big boost to our own defense industry
-CPEC. Our economy after years of mismanagement is not doing well, CPEC is a God-send
-China has backed us a lot internationally especially in the last few years when noone else did
-This vassal state is nothing but a misconception. If we were a vassal state we'd have terrible relations with all of China's enemies and the US would never have been close to us nor would they ever had bases anywhere in Pakistan. Indians keep saying it because China is in the neighborhood. If anything we have been arse-kissers for Arab states way more than we have ever been for China. If Saudis were our neighbors you'd said all the above for Saudi Arabia. Its touching the concern from Indians but it doesn't really concern Pakistanis. We have a bad economy, high crime rates, energy shortages and poor healthcare that plagues the average joe's life to have us worried more
The only ones worrying about China-Pakistan are Indians. Which is not surprising as both Pakistan and China have fought wars with India. But noone in Pakistan cares, as I said we have far bigger issues to worry about right now. Our entire foreign policy is a clusterfeck which needs to be sorted and China would be at the bottom of that list.
I don't really like the massive debts we are incurring as part of the partnership or the fact that they have the majority of profits from gwadar port but like wenger said at this point China is pretty low on our worries.
We need investment and allying with a super piwer neighbour is never a bad idea, specially with the current state of relationships with India. Hopefully, in the future we will ldsssn fhs reliance and it will be more of an equal partnership with both China and India as I don't like the Chinese regime or their treatment of Muslims.
Ideally our countries sort out our problems and we form an Asian union of sorts to rival China, Europe and America.
Very good post, I hope he can role out something similar in punjab. The education level of the molvis represent the fall in our people a lot, they used to be philosophers and very well educated whereas nowadays most of them become molvis because they see no other career path. An uneducatsd person is more likely to be close minded and to let these people determined what Islam is is a big risk.
This is massive news for Pakistan. First time they have a genuine leader not from some super rich privileged family. This could be stability and recovery Pakistan has needed for a while. A stable Pakistan + a stable India will also help with peace in the area.
I hope some day the whole Pakistan, India, Iran, Afghanistan region is as safe as Europe. The tourism would be mental for all countries involved if you could just drive around experiencing culture to culture.
I hope some day the whole Pakistan, India, Iran, Afghanistan region is as safe as Europe. The tourism would be mental for all countries involved if you could just drive around experiencing culture to culture.
Just to let you know that quote is against the tenets of Islam.
Lol how's that then? Do you think we mean it literally?
Some of you would surely mean it in the literal sense. Your reducing the meaning of la illaha illalallah, you mean to say before 1947 la illaha illalallah meant feck all and only after pakistan came into existence it gained some meaning ? Furthermore, most of the ulema had stated in the 40's that the creation of pakistan solely on the basis of Islam was un-Islamic.
How did you reach that conclusion?
Uff... Now you are judging peoples intentions?? Lol sorry bro but that's nuts.
Pakistan ka matlab - La illaha illalallah. Toh pakistan se pehle La illaha illalallah ka kya matlab tha ?
I'm here claiming that some pakistanis would take it literally while some wouldn't whilst your on the other hand claiming that the entire population of pakistan does not mean it in the literal sense. Your the one making a vast generalizing statement and you think my statement is "nuts" ? whats yours then ?
Meaning of Pakistan-La Illaha is not the same as meaning of la illaha-Pakistan?
Bhai, its commonly said in Pakistan, it was a slogan raised during the creation of Pakistan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_ka_matlab_kia
This is the first fatwa I've ever heard against it... Gobsmacked by your reasoning bro. I think you need to give people more credit.
Some of them reach so far to find things to criticize, this and harshad saying earlier that IK wont sleep in the PM house as it might be bug by ISI or his is better.
Finally a good looking leader and sincere too from what I've read. Goodluck to Pakistan and may you prosper as a nation. Your Egyptian brothers hope and pray you reach your potential inshALLAH...
Agree with this, some of the worlds most beautiful regions are found in these areas, the tourism alone would boost the region's economy significantly.
@MJJ PPP have backed out of any protests and admitted the result and now so have PMLN but still with crying. The latter are also refusing to say which constituencies were allegedly rigged Because they know the truth, their own surverys predicted such results. I am hearing they have also almost accepted defeat in Punjab. PTI will make alliance with MQM-P and all the Balochi parties which is great, finally some Balochi representation in federal and PTI will also make the government in KPK and Balochistan along with Punjab. Asad Omar is finance minister and I think they want Yasmeen Rashid to be CM Punjab, which would be great!
Because they know the truth, their own surverys predicted such results. I am hearing they have also almost accepted defeat in Punjab. PTI will make alliance with MQM-P and all the Balochi parties which is great, finally some Balochi representation in federal and PTI will also make the government in KPK and Balochistan along with Punjab. Asad Omar is finance minister and I think they want Yasmeen Rashid to be CM Punjab, which would be great!@MJJ PPP have backed out of any protests and admitted the result and now so have PMLN but still with crying. The latter are also refusing to say which constituencies were allegedly rigged
PPP still have Sindh?