No you are not getting it,
If we acted like Dortmund and we would value DDG at £70m and he would ask us to leave and Real Madrid are interested and offer around £70m, we would suddenly say no and start asking for £100m or more just to squeeze Real.
Ousmane Dembele | Fee agreed with Dortmund, medical on Monday, Barca go from MSN to LSD
- Thread starter beingshe7don
- Start date
- Status
No you are not getting it,
If we acted like Dortmund and we would value DDG at £70m and he would ask us to leave and Real Madrid are interested and offer around £70m, we would suddenly say no and start asking for £100m or more just to squeeze Real.
If they sold a player and were sitting on £200m then yes we would and we should. Not doing so would be stupid business.
And what a pity that will be for Dortmund if Barca don't want to sign their players anymore.
So you know the internal valuations of Dortmund's management
Dortmund haven't valued Dembele less than €150m while Barcelona are in for him. They want that to let him go and Barca came in with lower offers. They said no, our price is €150m.
Well that is squeezing, if we would do that we should not be surprised to see DDG act out and try to force a move. Nor should we ever hope to conclude a decent deal with Real ever again aswell.
In business you don't squeeze or atleast not too hard if it can be avoided because there is also something as holding up good relationships and a good reputation which you can benefit from in future dealings.
The price tag is huge but I can't feel anyone can complain about prices anymore. Neymar deal led to the inevitable bubble bursting and any top player will be sold for minimum 100m from now on. 100m is the new 60m and we have to deal with it sadly.
Pogba deal is a clear bargain now.
Pogba deal is a clear bargain now.
They knew what they were signing, a guy that did this twice already at Rennes, and if we are to believe Silvestre, who seems to have been close with Dembele
http://sport360.com/article/footbal...n-the-past-with-rennes-says-mikael-silvestre/
"By then he’s 19 and decides by himself again that he is going to go to Dortmund because they have faith in youth, and they have space for him to play every week.
If you go back to his first interview he said his ultimate dream is to play for Barcelona one day. When he signed for Dortmund, he got word from the Dortmund president that if Barca were going to come for him they would listen.
He feels now the €150 million requested is overpriced. I understand his stance but I don’t agree with it. But that’s his reaction and that’s what the French do, they go on strike!"
It's perfectly reasonable that they try to milk this summer's cow as much as they can, but I sure as hell expect this to bite them in the ass when word spreads that they said one thing to Dembele and did completely the opposite
What is too hard? If in your hypothetical Real were still willing to pay the fee then we didn't squeeze too hard. Not getting max value for your assets is crap business.
Not alot of clubs can pay 100m for a single player.
If that means good players can now only move to either PSG or City than football is dead
The 'can pay' argument is stupid unless you admit the 'greed' involved here. A commodity has the same value no matter who the buyer is. According to your logic every steak restaurant out there should charge Bill Gates 50.000 dollars for every steak he eats, because he likes steak and has the money to pay for that, no matter if the steak is actually worth 150 dollars in reality. That's called inflating the price to exploit the other side's situation. And just because someone can do that with their property doesn't make it right.
That's not the subject, Dortmund valuation isn't unreasonable, you can't try to buy a key player at the end of the transfer window and expect to not pay a premium. Now on Dembélé, I expected him to do that for Barcelona and only for Barcelona.
All top clubs can pay 90-100m for a single player as long as they're balancing the net spend or finding other ways to twist around the FFP rules. The limit will be on the number of superstars signed. You can't just go on and built a full team of already purchased superstars anymore. You can only bring one each summer at best.
But they are listening. They're giving Barcelona a price, it's up to Barcelona to meet it. It's not like they're saying nope we'll never sell you
It's not the same, steaks are not "unique", they're a common thing, not something special.
What you're saying is that if some random dude portrait from 1500 sells for 100$, then the Mona Lisa can't be sold for millions, but it doesn't work that way
That's one truly stupid example. I will just give you two clues, rarity and substitutability.
Dortmund isn't interested in loans from Barca. We are a for too big club for these kind of business and in a healthy financial state, just reported today a revenue of 405m € and cash reserves of 50m €. Loans are for clubs who don't have the money to buy players.
Bartra was bought for his release clause. No negotiations needed. The release clause was that low because he had few game time the season before. And i doubt that Dortmund will ever be in a position to buy players from Barca without these kind of circumstances. We should have good relationships with selling clubs down the food chain. Clubs who buy players from us must be squeezed as hard as possible. In our own self interest as a club.
Barca as a club is at the top of the food chain. Don't complain just because you lost once a player against your will, what put you in bad position for negotiations. That happens to us all the time...
That's some bs of the finest grade, your not reasonable by asking almost double the estimated market value of a player, and we all know that. They're "listening" because they know they're probably never going to get 150M for Dembele ever again and because the guy might destroy the team from inside if he has to stay after they promised to have his desire for playing in Barcelona acknowledged
See, this is exactly what I'am talking about.
They are more than happy to take him on a cut price deal for 15m, probably doing the same stuff to Rennes as what they are accusing Barcelona off, making a bunch of hollow promises to the player and when Barcelona comes knocking with a more than fair offer they start squeezing them for every penny because they know they are in a situation where they have to buy and have the money.
They are just a very greedy bunch, they don't care about the player or anything else but their own pockets but at the same time they like to paint Barcelona as a big villain in the press who is doing all sorts of vile underhand things. They are hyphocrites is what they are and a genuine unpleasant bunch to do any sort of business with. I remember Kagawa and Mkhitaryan also being deals they were being very difficult and bitter about and they were on contracts running out.
You just got clubs like that, Liverpool is also like that, every player that leaves there is a big drama was so with Torres, with Suarez now with Countinho. Spurs is like that aswell with Levy being impossible to deal with, well Dortmund is also like that. Genuine unpleasant clubs to try and do any sort of business with (unless you are selling them something).
That's not really true. They've set the same price all summer long.
Which isn't related to 'can pay' argument. Barca's money should make no difference to a good will seller. If they value Dembele according to what money Barca have or don't have, that's not really about rarity and substitutability, more than it is about them profiting from the fact that Barca are rich atm, and making their claim around that situation.
No two ways about it. If I set a price exploiting the situation of the other team it's called being greedy, and smart from a business standpoint. Dembele never gets sold for 150m. if Barca doesn't have 222m. from the Neymar deal. This is what dictated the sum, more than rarity and substitutability as you say. We're not talking about prime Iniesta or Messi here either. They finished after Leipzing in the league with Dembele in the team and got kicked out from the CL by an inferior side on paper in Monaco.
So you are saying Barca were greedy feckers when they set a unrealistic release clause?
Finally something sensible.
Barca should have realized Neymar wanted to go to PSG and opened negotiations at around 120,2 million euros, as that would have been more than fair. Neymar accepted the old release clause because he didn't think he would want to move, kinda how dembele signed for more years but didn't know a spot at Barca would be available after all.
Official. 2nd biggest transfer of all time
Release clause is release clause. If Neymar didn't think he would ever want to go, than that is his fault for signing a contract with such a release clause.
Dembele you can't compare because there is no release clause, if there was the same logic would apply to him.
To be fair there are only 2 footballers currently playing the game that are above Neymar in terms of greatness, 1 of which Barca already own and the other plays for their arch rivals. Replacing Neymar like for like is a distinct impossibility, but in Dembele they have a player with massive potential. Second only to Mbappe in terms of the worlds best young attacking talent.
Just my opinion though
What? Barca probably invested in Neymar, fines and everything, around 200m. Barely made a profit if any at 222m. and you say the fair price would've been 120m.?
The problem here is that you built a narrative that exclude Dortmund. You need to bear in mind the context, clubs like Dortmund, Monaco, Benfica and a handful of others can't do what Barcelona are doing, they can't target the best player in a solid club and sign him for big money, they have to be a lot more careful, that's why it's unwise to try to purchase a player from them late in the window because they will make you pay the risks that you are making them take. These clubs have tight schedules, agents and football people know it and generally respect it but Barcelona didn't because PSG put them in a very difficult situation.
There is no villains here, just two clubs trying to mitigate the risks that a third party put on them.
You can't compare Dembele to Neymar, he's Brazil's star, UCL and elite proven while being the 3rd or even 2nd most marketable player in the world
The thing is, Dembele said to Dortmund that he wanted to play for Barcelona already when he signed, Neymar NEVER said Barcelona he wanted to leave for PSG, remember, if we're to believe Neymar, he made up his mind two days before they paid his release clause and they never asked anything from Barcelona, that's a poor example
They are not sellers, they want the player. Dortmund isn't a supermarket.
Barcelona (fans and club) really are the most self entitled crowd of whingers in football.
Another club has a player under contract - a player they 100% do not wish to sell. Just because your star youngster doesn't fancy you anymore and has swanned off to Paris, doesn't mean you have the divine right to bully Dortmund into giving you theirs.
If they have communicated a number at which they could no longer refuse his sale, it's up to your club to meet that number or look elsewhere.
His previous value has no bearing on his current value. Otherwise in your own words, Messi should be entitled to leave Barca for the same fee he joined you should he so wish.
Big clubs bully the market and present a greater lure to players to join. Smaller clubs gamble on cheaper, lesser known players and then profit from receiving high prices for them when they move on. That is how the market works - This idea that Barcelona should be allowed to both sell and buy like a small club is ridiculous.
Another club has a player under contract - a player they 100% do not wish to sell. Just because your star youngster doesn't fancy you anymore and has swanned off to Paris, doesn't mean you have the divine right to bully Dortmund into giving you theirs.
If they have communicated a number at which they could no longer refuse his sale, it's up to your club to meet that number or look elsewhere.
His previous value has no bearing on his current value. Otherwise in your own words, Messi should be entitled to leave Barca for the same fee he joined you should he so wish.
Big clubs bully the market and present a greater lure to players to join. Smaller clubs gamble on cheaper, lesser known players and then profit from receiving high prices for them when they move on. That is how the market works - This idea that Barcelona should be allowed to both sell and buy like a small club is ridiculous.
The price away, that's the best transfer Barca had done ever since Suarez deal. If they could get Seri then their team won't look as bad as it was the previous matches.
True
So they signed him. Clearly it was "reasonable" enough to Barca.
Sure but it is not because Barca is after your player and wants to sign him you can start disrespecting them in the press.
Doesn't matter, I think 120.2m is fair.
Neymar didn't say he wanted to move when he signed, but surely Barca knew that if he was offered obscene money at another club there was a chance he'd want that money. They were being mean when they put that buyout there as it was unreasonable for other clubs to pay it.
So it's dembeles fault for signing such a long contract and he isn't such a victim in this as you try to portray? Thanks for clearing that up.
At least they've learned their lesson over buy-out clauses.
The player made it clear that he wants to play for Barca. From that point, Dortmund had to sell him. And they did. They got to 150m. because Barca was sitting on the Neymar money. They speculated this situation very well.
Dortmund is a seller club, under the right terms. This is why in 2012 they were the best team in Germany and now are far from that level and Bundesliga has basically become Bayern's playground. They lost/sold their best players.
So Barca think he's worth 400m. Odd.
Why, sadly?
Transfer fees have been rising since long before I was born and will continue to rise, long after I am dead.
In the mid 90s Shearer @ £15M was the World Record Transfer. People spoke about it being a crazy amount. Off the charts. It will never be broken. No player is worth that, etc.
Prices go up. It's how football has worked, for many decades.
And if you think £200M is a lot, wait another 10 years, when we shall almost certainly see the first billion dollar/euro player. Now, that'll be something to behold.
- Status