Ousmane Dembele | Fee agreed with Dortmund, medical on Monday, Barca go from MSN to LSD

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Look in case of Neymar, I'am actually happy there was a release clause. I think the big benefit of release clauses are to avoid situations like this with Dembele.

Barca and Neymar both agreed on the release clause, there can be no discussion of being screwed or being unreasonable, if PSG pays, he is released, simple as that. The only issue with that is how PSG financed that transaction as it wasn't really PSG that had to cough up the money but their rich owners did, from their own private pockets, which is completely against the idea of FFP. That is the issue. The reason Barca feels they are screwed by PSG is that no club could have actually paid the release clause whilst respecting FFP regulations, I mean United is one the richest clubs in the world and we could Neymar alot more than PSG but even we would never pay that for 1 player. So under FFP, that release clause protected their investment, the fact PSG triggered with outside money screwed them over and that is the point they are mad about and understandably so.

If Dortmund would have agreed a release clause of 150m, there also wouldn't be a discussion because Dembele agreed to it. But I don't think if they would have been obligated to put in that it would have been at 150m because at the time, Dembele was bought for 15m, he was a talent with everything to proof, the release clause Dembele and his agent would have agreed to would likely have been much lower, you know mostly these things are in line with the agreed upon salary. Say they would have agreed for something like 90m, as at that time Dortmund would have considered 90m more valuable than the contract they had so it was a good safeguard for their investment. Now a year later, Barca was forced to let Neymar go for 200m, they could just pay the clause and get Dembele for 90m. In my opnion those amounts and those transactions would have made sense and they would make this entire circus so much simpler.

Dortmund would have never valued Dembele at 150m a year ago, not even this year at the start of the summer. They are just using their absolute power to squeeze much more out of it than they think he is worth and the only way this is working for them is because PSG inflated the market with triggering Neymar's clause and now they are expecting Barca to cough up an inflated price because they know they can and because they know they want him alltough he ain't worth anywhere near that amount.

I absolutly hate how PSG ruined the market with their Qatar money spending spree, now all clubs have lost their senses and you just know the next time United will move in for a good talent, we will be paying the same tax Barcelona is now paying. I think that is ridiculous.

That's a lot to write without answering my question. Would Barca act any differently to Dortmund if the roles were reversed? The correct answer is no, they would not. They'd see a rival club trying to prise away one of their star players and say 'if you want him, you're going to have to pay an obscene amount of money.'

Sure, the Neymar deal got done because of the inclusion of a release clause, but if anything these two deals show how damaging they can be to a selling club. If Dortmund inserted a release fee into Dembele's contract last year it might not have been as high as £150m. And if Neymar didn't have a release clause in his, Barca would have demanded a helluva lot more than the 220 million euros they ended up getting. I bet Barca wished they were in as strong a position during Neymar's transfer as Dortmund are with Dembele.
 
Yea, best feeling to sign one of the world's best talents and have him to be a true Barca fan at the same time. Even if he was overpriced, it's worth it.
 
Barcelona, Madrid, United. These teams got there in time. It's a natural evolution. It's success via culture, tradition and prestige. And even so, Barca got Neymar for 87m. and Madrid got Bale for 100m. Now PSG are reportedly very close to signing 450m. worth of players in 1 month. It isn't even close. And take notice that Barca, Madrid these clubs have natural revenue. They make money in football because they are good at it and they've been good at it for many decades. It's uncomparable.

That does not make their god given right to spend any insane fee to get any player first, it exactly sends out the signal to the clubs that the richest will spend what ever they are capable of to have that advantage of getting the best player so they keep dominating and attracting the next potential best, So the richest always keep winning and keep dominating the poor clubs, the seeds of inflation were sowed right with that mentality of barcelona and madrid and thus the oil clubs joined in because they are state backed to beat the highest spending clubs at their own game which now dont go down well with the richest clubs.
 
Nope. I'm only suggesting we sell players for their fair values. Which we are. I'll let you continue with your insults now.

When you sold players like Pedro, Sanchez and Fabregas you got excellent money for them. Back then, the transfer record was around 80mil and you sold players you no longer needed for around half of that.

Now the transfer record is 220mil and you've just signed a player who Dortmund still very much needed and wanted for well under half of that.

You may sell players at or below their values occasionally (as do United often) but you are far from honest and righteous when signing them. Barcelona have always used every trick in the book to bully or coerce other clubs in selling them key players for under their true value.
 
Nope. I'm only suggesting we sell players for their fair values. Which we are. I'll let you continue with your insults now.

You sell players for their fair values because you never have to worry about another club coming in for your stars. Until the Neymar deal, that is, and that was only resolved because of the release clause. And even then your club did enough bitching and moaning.

It's easy to say you get rid of players for a fair price when you only ever get rid of players you no longer want. Same goes for all the big clubs - most of the time you're getting rid of players you no longer need to smaller teams. The transfer hierarchy doesn't work the other way round. Dortmund can hold you to ransom for Dembele because he's a star, which is why you want him. You can't hold them to ransom for Bartra because he isn't on the same level, which is why you're happy to get rid of him.
 
You sell players for their fair values because you never have to worry about another club coming in for your stars. Until the Neymar deal, that is, and that was only resolved because of the release clause. And even then your club did enough bitching and moaning.

It's easy to say you get rid of players for a fair price when you only ever get rid of players you no longer want. Same goes for all the big clubs - most of the time you're getting rid of players you no longer need to smaller teams. The transfer hierarchy doesn't work the other way round. Dortmund can hold you to ransom for Dembele because he's a star, which is why you want him. You can't hold them to ransom for Bartra because he isn't on the same level, which is why you're happy to get rid of him.

Again, stop with the nonesense. Barca pressured Neymar to make up his mind. As soon as he expressed his desire to leave he was released from training to go deal with PSG and have his medical. There was no bitching and moaning. Neymar refused to say anything about the rumors with PSG. He (probably at the advice of his dad) caused the bitching and moaning to drag things down and collect his loyalty bonus most likely, so I'm afraid you are a bit confused here.

Other clubs (like Madrid) sell their unwanted players for a lot of money. Barca usually sell them for less. How much did United pay for Di Maria, and how much did Arsenal pay for Sanchez? These two were players of similar age and value.

Nobody is blaming Dortmund because they exploited the market with Dembele. But people need to stop making them look like the victim here.

People blame Barca for being bullies then the next 5 minutes laugh at them for paying 150m for Dembele. So make up your mind. Who played who here?

In my mind Dembele played both :lol:.
 
Doesn't matter, I think 120.2m is fair.
Neymar didn't say he wanted to move when he signed, but surely Barca knew that if he was offered obscene money at another club there was a chance he'd want that money. They were being mean when they put that buyout there as it was unreasonable for other clubs to pay it.

And you're some kind of Guru or something? When Pogba goes above 100M Neymar isn't only worth 120M.

The thing is, you're being a know-it-all who doesn't seem to know how release clauses work in Spain and why we have to deal with that concept while other countries don't.

Release Clauses don't relate to market value, neither exist to regulate market. Clubs and players set the release clause amount negotiating between them in certain terms that are not arbitrary, release clauses are there for you to have a chance to buy out your contract but you have to put some money on top of that to compensate the club for the fact that you're not fulfulling your whole contract and now they have to look for someone to replace you leaving your workspace when they had planned for you to stay for years.

A release clause can't be lower than the whole wages you're going to receive in your contract, so, why a 120M release clause wouldn't fly? Because Neymar was going to receive around ~30M per year from 2016 to 2021, that alone puts us in 150M (30M above your "fair" amount) and we still have to compensate Barcelona for losing a worker without warning and destroying their project for the 2017/2018 season and onwards, I'd say 70M barely cover for that, seeing how Neymar's replacement costs double that and barely has his level.

Then, there exists farce clauses or "hype" clauses, as the ones you saw with Denilson and what allegedly Ronaldo has (1.000M €) but that's just for the press and fans to jerk off to, those clauses wouldn't stand a chance had the players went to court to dispute them if they wanted to leave the team, because Ronaldo doesn't have a 800M contract neither could Madrid get 200M for damages on him leaving the club.

So, you might hate us as much as you want, but Barcelona are the good guys here, our release clauses are well done, would hold up in court and we don't use them to create hype on our players putting some irrational numbers, they're legal forms for us to cover our asses when someone get's a guy from us. That's why Messi has a fair release clause half the worth of CR7, not because he wants to leave more than Ronaldo or because he's worth less, it's because it's realistic and would hold up in court.


So tell me, we're paying 150M for Dembele and he had a 5 year contract, since you want to compare him to the Neymar situation, how much do you think we would pay for him if Dortmund had to play with our rules? his market value at transfermakt is 1/3 of Neymar, and I doubt he was in 30M a year wages like Ney, Reus was the top earner in the club last season with 8M per year, even if Dembele was at the same wage than Reus, his release clause in Spain would be, at best, 1/3 of what PSG paid for Neymar, ~80M, which is what most of us would find fair.

Yet, you think its fair that we are bound to put realistic release clauses for our players and Liverpool or Dortmund can ask as much as they want, ok... I guess?
 
Nope. I'm only suggesting we sell players for their fair values. Which we are. I'll let you continue with your insults now.

You sell them for fair values because you don't want them anymore, and you'd rather sell them than let them rot in the bench and still pay their wages
 
My god the barca fan brigade is going strong in this one.

You guys are seriously absolutely blind to anything sketchy Barca might ever do or have done. "There was no bitching and moaning involved in the Neymar transfer." :lol:

I don't get the whole discussion. Who's even saying Dortmund are a victim here? They told you a prize and you had to pay. That's fair. The only reason they're a victim is because now Barca fans who know all too well about how holy the club is and seemingly need to punch that into everyone's faces, are swarming the internet to proclaim that Dortmund are greedy cnuts and played Barcelona. They didn't exploit the market. They just did regular business under regular market terms and conditions. If the price is high, then the price is high. Barca agreed to paying the price, so they must've thought it was still a reasonable price. There's no sudden shortage of football players now that Neymar is gone and Dortmund just so happened to be selling the last player on earth. In reality Dortmund just had a player they didn't want to sell unless you were to make a ridiculous offer. You did that. Done.


Now stop whining and stop the hidden under the table disses in Dortmund's direction. What's so hard to understand about Dembele having a contract at Dortmund. If Dortmund don't want to sell they don't have to. That doesn't make them greedy cnuts.
 
And you're some kind of Guru or something? When Pogba goes above 100M Neymar isn't only worth 120M.

The thing is, you're being a know-it-all who doesn't seem to know how release clauses work in Spain and why we have to deal with that concept while other countries don't.

Release Clauses don't relate to market value, neither exist to regulate market. Clubs and players set the release clause amount negotiating between them in certain terms that are not arbitrary, release clauses are there for you to have a chance to buy out your contract but you have to put some money on top of that to compensate the club for the fact that you're not fulfulling your whole contract and now they have to look for someone to replace you leaving your workspace when they had planned for you to stay for years.

A release clause can't be lower than the whole wages you're going to receive in your contract, so, why a 120M release clause wouldn't fly? Because Neymar was going to receive around ~30M per year from 2016 to 2021, that alone puts us in 150M (30M above your "fair" amount) and we still have to compensate Barcelona for losing a worker without warning and destroying their project for the 2017/2018 season and onwards, I'd say 70M barely cover for that, seeing how Neymar's replacement costs double that and barely has his level.

Then, there exists farce clauses or "hype" clauses, as the ones you saw with Denilson and what allegedly Ronaldo has (1.000M €) but that's just for the press and fans to jerk off to, those clauses wouldn't stand a chance had the players went to court to dispute them if they wanted to leave the team, because Ronaldo doesn't have a 800M contract neither could Madrid get 200M for damages on him leaving the club.

So, you might hate us as much as you want, but Barcelona are the good guys here, our release clauses are well done, would hold up in court and we don't use them to create hype on our players putting some irrational numbers, they're legal forms for us to cover our asses when someone get's a guy from us. That's why Messi has a fair release clause half the worth of CR7, not because he wants to leave more than Ronaldo or because he's worth less, it's because it's realistic and would hold up in court.


So tell me, we're paying 150M for Dembele and he had a 5 year contract, since you want to compare him to the Neymar situation, how much do you think we would pay for him if Dortmund had to play with our rules? his market value at transfermakt is 1/3 of Neymar, and I doubt he was in 30M a year wages like Ney, Reus was the top earner in the club last season with 8M per year, even if Dembele was at the same wage than Reus, his release clause in Spain would be, at best, 1/3 of what PSG paid for Neymar, ~80M, which is what most of us would find fair.

Yet, you think its fair that we are bound to put realistic release clauses for our players and Liverpool or Dortmund can ask as much as they want, ok... I guess?
No, I'm not. And that's my whole point. Red panther is in no position to say 100m vs 150m is reasonable vs unreasonable for Dembele.
I'm merely commenting as stupidly as he is, but on the other side of the coin to make the point that he is being daft.
 
Very exciting signing for Barca. Am very envious.. the boy is a top drawer talent, and he will learn of some of the very best. With their possession football, having a game breaker like Dembele.. means their style of football lives on.

Yes he isn't Neymar, but he doesn't need to be.. he's an exciting dribbler, and is maturing all the time. Will end up being a success.. as long as Messi and Suarez can keep going - that is the real worry.
 
LSD is a good way of putting it but I prefer this one -

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Nope. I'm only suggesting we sell players for their fair values. Which we are. I'll let you continue with your insults now.
Surely you understand the difference between selling a Pedro, Toure, Fabregas and selling Dembele? The first list is guys who weren't first choice for you, Dembele is Dortmund's most prized asset. To see a recent parallel from your own club, see the way your club reacted to PSG more than doubling the world record when signing Neymar.
 
Surely you understand the difference between selling a Pedro, Toure, Fabregas and selling Dembele? The first list is guys who weren't first choice for you, Dembele is Dortmund's most prized asset. To see a recent parallel from your own club, see the way your club reacted to PSG more than doubling the world record when signing Neymar.

Wasn't comparing them. Was a separate discussion.
 
LOL is more consistent. LSD, you're going from first name to surname and it's just wrong.
 
I think Barca got the better if they add Coutinho too. Sell Neymar for 220, get Dembele and Coutinho for around 250. Only 50m net spend, significantly upgraded their team.
 
Wasn't comparing them. Was a separate discussion.
The point you made via that post was about Barca selling players for "fair fees" as you called it. What I'm saying is that it's easy to say that when you're selling guys who aren't even first choice. It's totally different when it comes to the Dembeles and Neymars of this world as we've seen this window. No club is ever going to sell its best players for a fair value, barca included. It just doesn't make sense for them to do that.
 
According to Reviersport (somewhat reliable) €30m of the €40m are basically save in Dortmund's pocket and the rest is more open.
 
You sell them for fair values because you don't want them anymore, and you'd rather sell them than let them rot in the bench and still pay their wages

Not true in most cases. We sold Pedro not because we didn't want him. But because he wanted to leave. Same with Alexis. He wanted to leave after we signed Suarez. Same with Yaya. He wanted to leave after Busquets was starting to get a lot of playing time at DM. All were top rated players who wanted to leave and we didn't stop them.

The point you made via that post was about Barca selling players for "fair fees" as you called it. What I'm saying is that it's easy to say that when you're selling guys who aren't even first choice. It's totally different when it comes to the Dembeles and Neymars of this world as we've seen this window. No club is ever going to sell its best players for a fair value, barca included. It just doesn't make sense for them to do that.

You can sell players who aren't first choice for bigger fees.
 
Yea, best feeling to sign one of the world's best talents and have him to be a true Barca fan at the same time. Even if he was overpriced, it's worth it.
Oh come on. There will hardly be a player out there who is a 'true' Barca fan unlike many on here are true United fans or you're a true Barca fan.

Personally believe players become 'true fans' when a club expresses an interest, are compulsive winners (Bayer, real, barca etc) or historical legends (milan) and willing to pay them more than what they're earning now.

True fans are your local players who happen to get through the youth ranks or players that genuinely loved the club and it was their only club. Dembelle is neither of those.
 
Again, stop with the nonesense. Barca pressured Neymar to make up his mind. As soon as he expressed his desire to leave he was released from training to go deal with PSG and have his medical. There was no bitching and moaning. Neymar refused to say anything about the rumors with PSG. He (probably at the advice of his dad) caused the bitching and moaning to drag things down and collect his loyalty bonus most likely, so I'm afraid you are a bit confused here.

Other clubs (like Madrid) sell their unwanted players for a lot of money. Barca usually sell them for less. How much did United pay for Di Maria, and how much did Arsenal pay for Sanchez? These two were players of similar age and value.

Nobody is blaming Dortmund because they exploited the market with Dembele. But people need to stop making them look like the victim here.

People blame Barca for being bullies then the next 5 minutes laugh at them for paying 150m for Dembele. So make up your mind. Who played who here?

In my mind Dembele played both :lol:.

Aren't they currently suing Neymar and PSG? That would count as bitching and moaning.
 
Aren't they currently suing Neymar and PSG? That would count as bitching and moaning.

Nope. That's a contractual dispute. Barca think Neymar owes them money, Neymar thinks the other way. They are suing each other now as far as I know.
 
Not true in most cases. We sold Pedro not because we didn't want him. But because he wanted to leave. Same with Alexis. He wanted to leave after we signed Suarez. Same with Yaya. He wanted to leave after Busquets was starting to get a lot of playing time at DM. All were top rated players who wanted to leave and we didn't stop them.

Well yeah you didn't stop them because you all have better players in your team already, top players or not, your team hardly need them anymore, that's why you can sell them with fair fee, totally different with Dembele
 
Well yeah you didn't stop them because you all have better players in your team already, top players or not, your team hardly need them anymore, that's why you can sell them with fair fee, totally different with Dembele

And also because when Pedro wanted to leave, we respected his wish. Same with Alexis. Barca, believe it or not, don't have a history of keeping players against their will. Whenever players wanted to leave the club, they did just that.

I can tell you right now, that even if there wasn't any buyout, Neymar would've left to PSG if he said he wants to move publicly.
 
You can sell players who aren't first choice for bigger fees.
You can sell players for what the buyer agrees to pay. There's no bigger or smaller in absolute terms unless you mean Barca asks clubs to pay less than what they're ready to which would be weird to say the least.
 
We sold him to you for a fair price. Remember that. Also remember that Arsenal has a history of going to shopping at La Masia. The price for snatching Barca talents is the possibility that one time they will be homesick and will want back, which is exactly what happened with Cesc.
Because you didn't want him anymore :lol:

Well done to Barca for selling a player who they no longer want for a fair price. All other clubs should take heed, that's how you get rid of players you don't want anymore.
 
The 'can pay' argument is stupid unless you admit the 'greed' involved here. A commodity has the same value no matter who the buyer is. According to your logic every steak restaurant out there should charge Bill Gates 50.000 dollars for every steak he eats, because he likes steak and has the money to pay for that, no matter if the steak is actually worth 150 dollars in reality. That's called inflating the price to exploit the other side's situation. And just because someone can do that with their property doesn't make it right.

Do you know the Arabian souks?

Also a commodity is a product you can find everywhere (the share of a company for example, a barrel of oil...) VERSUS A football player which is a unique product: there is one and only one Dembélé

I can buy a company's share everywhere: a lot of sellers that sell the same similar product >>> commodity
Money, company's shares, oil, gaz... are commodities
 
Very exciting signing for Barca. Am very envious.. the boy is a top drawer talent, and he will learn of some of the very best. With their possession football, having a game breaker like Dembele.. means their style of football lives on.

Yes he isn't Neymar, but he doesn't need to be.. he's an exciting dribbler, and is maturing all the time. Will end up being a success.. as long as Messi and Suarez can keep going - that is the real worry.

Absolutely same feeling, a lot of daft conclusions that a like for like Neymar replacement was needed- he's the 2nd best player in the world for me, that's not something you can easily replace or need to

A like for like just was never warranted. People probably have forgotten but many thought it wouldn't work to even play Neymar with Messi, much less Suarez. The attack doesn't require it, they need balance and they'll have a special attacking player to give that balance in the final third

The midfield, however, will remain a concern until addressed

Ousmane loves the team and understands the club culture from a fan perspective already which means fans will worship and he will fight to earn that affection to win. He's special and Barcelona is renowned for that caliber of player. It'll be my next kit to purchase but I'll put #7
 
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Because you didn't want him anymore :lol:

Well done to Barca for selling a player who they no longer want for a fair price. All other clubs should take heed, that's how you get rid of players you don't want anymore.

The player we didn't want became your best player and one of the best players in England. And you got him for a low fee, considering his value, almost the same fee Barca paid for him when they signed him.
 
I think Barca got the better if they add Coutinho too. Sell Neymar for 220, get Dembele and Coutinho for around 250. Only 50m net spend, significantly upgraded their team.
Neymar is on another level to both of them. IMO they are still worse even if they get both.
 
Absolutely same feeling, a lot of daft conclusions that a like for like Neymar replacement was needed- he's the 2nd best player in the world for me, that's not something you can easily replace or need to
A like for like just was never warranted. People probably have forgotten but many thought it wouldn't work to even play Neymar with Messi, much less Suarez. The attack doesn't require it, they need balance and they'll have a special attacking player to give that balance in the final third

The midfield will remain a concern until addressed

You have Neymar ahead of Messi?
 
You can sell players for what the buyer agrees to pay. There's no bigger or smaller in absolute terms unless you mean Barca asks clubs to pay less than what they're ready to which would be weird to say the least.

Don't talk in terms of 'the right to do something'. Pretty much everyone agreed Dortmund had the right to ask whatever they wanted for Dembele in the first place. People also have the right to call them greedy for how they handled the Dembele situation. As for myself, I consider them greedy and smart at the same time, as I've said it more than once.
 
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