Ousmane Dembele | Fee agreed with Dortmund, medical on Monday, Barca go from MSN to LSD

[Craig Ward]

It's a sellers market. The prices have gone crazy, if you have a young emerging talent, you can demand what you want.

I actually think its a good thing that the club is taking some initiative and standing firm for they're valuation of the player.

Its clear he wants to go, he stunk the place out as soon as Barca declared interest, and Dortmund rightly fined him. Glad Dortmund have got what they want for him.

As a Manc, I dislike Liverpool clearly, but fair play they are also standing firm on Coutinho.

No club is a pushover now. Chelsea should fine the absolute feck out of Costa too

 

[Sarni]

It's bad when prices go up in an inflated way. In the absence of FFP this is basically what oil clubs want. To inflate the market so that they will be the major players, not the historic profitable clubs who have got where they are financially after a century (or even more) of evolution. This is bad news for everyone not being sheik owned.

Dortmund were not competing for the same players PSG and City will be buying anyway, they don't care. It'll be a while before their financial power is close to Barcelona, Real etc. and by that time a lot could change.

They are trying to capitalize on the market going wild this Summer, probably hoping that it gets back to normal next year (and they should be correct about that).

 

[prtk0811]

It's bad when prices go up in an inflated way. In the absence of FFP this is basically what oil clubs want. To inflate the market so that they will be the major players, not the historic profitable clubs who have got where they are financially after a century (or even more) of evolution. This is bad news for everyone not being sheik owned.

But barcelona and Madrid have their fair share in sowing the seeds of inflation in the first place when you go out and pay 87 and 100 m for neymar and bale and James Rodriguez.

 

[prtk0811]

He actually had the choice of joining Barca but chose to join Dortmund instead.

Which is weird in itself.

 

[serghei]

But barcelona and Madrid have their fair share in sowing the seeds of inflation in the first place when you go out and pay 87 and 100 m for neymar and bale and James Rodriguez.

Barcelona, Madrid, United. These teams got there in time. It's a natural evolution. It's success via culture, tradition and prestige. And even so, Barca got Neymar for 87m. and Madrid got Bale for 100m. Now PSG are reportedly very close to signing 450m. worth of players in 1 month. It isn't even close. And take notice that Barca, Madrid these clubs have natural revenue. They make money in football because they are good at it and they've been good at it for many decades. It's uncomparable.

 

[Oooh_aaah_cantona]

It's bad when prices go up in an inflated way. In the absence of FFP this is basically what oil clubs want. To inflate the market so that they will be the major players, not the historic profitable clubs who have got where they are financially after a century (or even more) of evolution. This is bad news for everyone not being sheik owned.

of course they want to be major players.. who doesn't?

 

[zee.robs]

The purpose of breeding top level academy kids is to have them for long long time, which helps the team chemistry and stability, that's why we build them up, if he makes it on a high level there is no point considering any offers. We ain't a business club.

I guess BVB would be fine with having Dembele for a long time as well. The post you replied to was merely trying to point out, that the money you paid for the player doesn't matter that much when you sell the player again later.

 

[djdhrubs]

No way is this guy 150 x better than Cantona.

 

[The red panther]

Sorry to be harsh, but you are appearing incredibly naive. It's how life works. What you are suggesting is utterly ludicrous. There is not a money-making business on earth that does not attempt to earn the maximum amount it can for its assets. Feck burning bridges, Barca aren't being forced to purchase Dembele. As other posters noted, if Barca believe they're being overcharged, they won't fecking pay it. This isn't a ransom, it's a financial exchange between two willing parties. Negotiations take place; if terms are not agreed upon, parties can part way somewhat amicably. Dortmund are doing what any club in world football would do.

Do you expect Dortmund to feel extreme sympathy for Barca losing Neymar, and as such, charitably lower the asking price for Dembele because it would be a nice thing to do? I cannot understand your point at all.

No I don't

My point is also more between Dembele and Dortmund than between Dortmund and Barcelona.

My opinion is that clubs should not hold on to a player that wants to leave. If Dembele doesn't want to leave, than obviously Dortmund don't need to sell but if he puts in a request to leave and tells Dortmund he wants a transfer to Barcelona than I think it is in everyone's best interest that Dortmund cooperates to make a transfer possible. In that regard Dortmund is allowed to make a healthy profit but if they make outrageous demands than obviously they aren't being cooperative. If you ask for 150m or more, whilst a fair price for someone like Dembele is probably 100m or less than you are making a negotiations very difficult, if not to say impossible. In that case I can understand Dembele is trying to push through a transfer by playing it dirty. Now Dortmund can complain about that and put all blame for it on Barca but I believe they are also responsible for not being cooperative and trying to hold on to a player against his wishes and I have seen that at many other club and it never ends well.

 

[Solo Toure]

This kid is the real deal. Very talented with potential to become world class.

A good substitute for Neymar to be honest.

 

[The red panther]

What a stupid post. Dortmund are demanding £150 million because they can. Why should Dortmund bow down to bigger clubs without getting everything they possibly can.

"I understand they aren't happy he already wants to leave but that is just the way things work". Yeah, and Dortmund asking for a large chunk of change in compensation is also how things work. He can have all the ambition he wants, but that doesn't mean Dortmund need to roll over and facilitate his dreams. They need to look out for their own interests.
Barca are interested in him because he has the potential to become the best in the world - I'd say it would be negligent of Dortmund not to demand such a high amount in the current market.

Dortmund are entitled to ask however much they want but that has also consequences.

One of those consequences is that Dembele started acting out, refused to train etc in order to push through a move. Dortmund are a bit too eager to put all the blame for that on Barca. Yea if Barca didn't want Dembele, he wouldn't be acting out, true, if Dortmund would agree to Barca's more than fair offer, he also wouldn't be acting out.

Dortmund has squeezed an insane amount of money out of it, so in my opnion they aren't being screwed at all, they are the ones who screwed Barca.

 

[lawliet354]

Which is weird in itself.

Didn't he chose Dortmund because he said it will allow him to develop in environment without too much pressure? and Dortmund has good track record of giving youth chance

I think he chose Dortmund because no way he will play in last year Barca side where the front three is MSN, but now that one spot is open and Barca haven't signed anyone capable to fill the void, he see opportunity to play in his dream club and jump ship instantly

 

[Globule]

No I don't

My point is also more between Dembele and Dortmund than between Dortmund and Barcelona.

My opinion is that clubs should not hold on to a player that wants to leave. If Dembele doesn't want to leave, than obviously Dortmund don't need to sell but if he puts in a request to leave and tells Dortmund he wants a transfer to Barcelona than I think it is in everyone's best interest that Dortmund cooperates to make a transfer possible. In that regard Dortmund is allowed to make a healthy profit but if they make outrageous demands than obviously they aren't being cooperative. If you ask for 150m or more, whilst a fair price for someone like Dembele is probably 100m or less than you are making a negotiations very difficult, if not to say impossible. In that case I can understand Dembele is trying to push through a transfer by playing it dirty. Now Dortmund can complain about that and put all blame for it on Barca but I believe they are also responsible for not being cooperative and trying to hold on to a player against his wishes and I have seen that at many other club and it never ends well.

But again, why should Dortmund give in so easily to a player just because he wants to leave. They have to look out for their own interests. Sure, no club really wants to hold on to a player that doesn't want to be there, but accepting less than the price you value him at just because he's requested a move sets a dangerous precedent.

If we rate De Gea as £70 million say, and Real offer £40 million. Should we simply accept it because he wants to move, or should we stay firm and say to Real that, if they want him that badly, they can offer the price we value him at?

This is why players go on strike and kick up a fuss - to try to force the issue and lower the asking price. Fair fecks to Dortmund for staying firm in the face of that.

 

[lawliet354]

Dortmund are entitled to ask however much they want but that has also consequences.

One of those consequences is that Dembele started acting out, refused to train etc in order to push through a move. Dortmund are a bit too eager to put all the blame for that on Barca. Yea if Barca didn't want Dembele, he wouldn't be acting out, true, if Dortmund would agree to Barca's more than fair offer, he also wouldn't be acting out.

Dortmund has squeezed an insane amount of money out of it, so in my opnion they aren't being screwed at all, they are the ones who screwed Barca.

So from now on, should Dortmund just accept any reasonable offer for their player just because they start acting out??

 

[The red panther]

And what is it about burning bridges - will Barcelona be less likely to come back in the future to buy a player that Dortmund don't really want to sell? Even if it will be so, it's no great loss for Dortmund. Will Barcelona refuse to sell them a player in the future? It's unlikely.

I don't think Barcelona's management will be keen to do any business anymore with Dortmund unless they can avoid it. I don't think Dortmund should expect to get any good deals on transfers or loans from Barcelona if they ever are on the demanding side of business. For example, they bought Bartra last year for €8m, I don't think Barca would sell any of their players anymore for such a reasonable price to Dortmund, they will be trying to do business with some other club who didn't try to screw them over and publically tarnish their reputation in the press.

That is called burning bridges

 

[The red panther]

But again, why should Dortmund give in so easily to a player just because he wants to leave. They have to look out for their own interests. Sure, no club really wants to hold on to a player that doesn't want to be there, but accepting less than the price you value him at just because he's requested a move sets a dangerous precedent.

If we rate De Gea as £70 million say, and Real offer £40 million. Should we simply accept it because he wants to move, or should we stay firm and say to Real that, if they want him that badly, they can offer the price we value him at?

This is why players go on strike and kick up a fuss - to try to force the issue and lower the asking price. Fair fecks to Dortmund for staying firm in the face of that.

If Dortmund value Dembele at 150m, they are insane

They are asking for 150m because they are hoping Barca won't be crazy enough to buy him for that price.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I would have loved him at United. Wanted him last summer but never ever did I think he'd be going for this much. I thought somewhere around 50mil maybe but this summer the market has just gone insane.

Outstanding player and really think he is going to go on and be a really special player. Hopefully this move to Barca doesn't screw him up.

 

[Globule]

Dortmund are entitled to ask however much they want but that has also consequences.

One of those consequences is that Dembele started acting out, refused to train etc in order to push through a move. Dortmund are a bit too eager to put all the blame for that on Barca. Yea if Barca didn't want Dembele, he wouldn't be acting out, true, if Dortmund would agree to Barca's more than fair offer, he also wouldn't be acting out.

Dortmund has squeezed an insane amount of money out of it, so in my opnion they aren't being screwed at all, they are the ones who screwed Barca.

How can you possibly believe Barca are being screwed. They're not being forced to sign him. If they didn't believe he could justify the £150 million they wouldn't be signing him. If they think he's not worth that much and are still going to buy him anyway, that's Barca being incompetent, not being screwed. Obviously they think the fee will eventually be justified.
Put it this way, do you think Dortmund are doing anything that Barca themselves wouldn't do in the same position? In the absence of a release clause, do you think Neymar would have transferred to PSG? And if so, do you think it would have been for 220m euros?

 

[Nick7]

I don't think Barcelona's management will be keen to do any business anymore with Dortmund unless they can avoid it. I don't think Dortmund should expect to get any good deals on transfers or loans from Barcelona if they ever are on the demanding side of business. For example, they bought Bartra last year for €8m, I don't think Barca would sell any of their players anymore for such a reasonable price to Dortmund, they will be trying to do business with some other club who didn't try to screw them over and publically tarnish their reputation in the press.

That is called burning bridges

That doesn't make business sense. A well run company doesn't care about bridges. If there's business to be done between the two clubs it will happen, regardless of Dembele's fate.

 

[The red panther]

So from now on, should Dortmund just accept any reasonable offer for their player just because they start acting out??

If a player wants to leave, they should start accepting reasonable offers. Now you can discuss what is reasonable, but 150m for Dembele ain't fecking reasonable.

 

[AR87]

My opinion is that clubs should not hold on to a player that wants to leave. If Dembele doesn't want to leave, than obviously Dortmund don't need to sell but if he puts in a request to leave and tells Dortmund he wants a transfer to Barcelona than I think it is in everyone's best interest that Dortmund cooperates to make a transfer possible. In that regard Dortmund is allowed to make a healthy profit but if they make outrageous demands than obviously they aren't being cooperative. If you ask for 150m or more, whilst a fair price for someone like Dembele is probably 100m or less than you are making a negotiations very difficult, if not to say impossible.

The transfer actually is happening so clearly the negotiations, while difficult, weren't impossible.

Why the heck should Dortmund make it easy for Barca and Dembele? This makes no sense and it's a really stupid way of operating as a business to allow valuable assets leave without extracting maximum value for them. In the grand scheme of things 2 weeks of negotiations while Dembele acted like a cnut isn't a big deal to the future of Dortmund or Barca and nor was it some excruciating, painstaking, horrifying process as you're making it out to be.

 

[Globule]

If Dortmund value Dembele at 150m, they are insane

They are asking for 150m because they are hoping Barca won't be crazy enough to buy him for that price.

Why should Dortmund sell him? They have him under contract for a few years yet, the market is inflated, they know Barca have a feck tonne of money sitting in their bank, they don't need the money, they don't have much time to buy a replacement, even if they do buy a replacement they'll have to spend a load of money due to the inflated transfer fees. I don't think it's insane to ask for £150 million when you factor all of that in.

Are Barca insane for valuing him at that much? Because by buying him at that price they effectively are.

 

[zee.robs]

I don't think Barcelona's management will be keen to do any business anymore with Dortmund unless they can avoid it. I don't think Dortmund should expect to get any good deals on transfers or loans from Barcelona if they ever are on the demanding side of business. For example, they bought Bartra last year for €8m, I don't think Barca would sell any of their players anymore for such a reasonable price to Dortmund, they will be trying to do business with some other club who didn't try to screw them over and publically tarnish their reputation in the press.

That is called burning bridges

I will ask again: If the fee demanded by bvb is vastly above market value, why doesn't barca buy some other player?

 

[AR87]

If a player wants to leave, they should start accepting reasonable offers. Now you can discuss what is reasonable, but 150m for Dembele ain't fecking reasonable.

Why? Because you say so?

Barca are choosing to pay the sum. Clearly they disagree with your assessment of what's reasonable. When Mbappe is going for €150m plus a player what Dortmund is asking for a player that's arguably proven as much and on a long term contract is perfectly reasonable.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Dortmund are well within their rights to stand their ground but I do dislike how absurd the market has become. I mean, the numbers that are being demanded for Coutinho and Dembele are ridiculous. While it's fine for us as United fans watching this, but the next time we want a top talent we're going to get taken to the cleaners too and our owners and management will have these same problems in closing the deal.

 

[Globule]

I don't think Barcelona's management will be keen to do any business anymore with Dortmund unless they can avoid it. I don't think Dortmund should expect to get any good deals on transfers or loans from Barcelona if they ever are on the demanding side of business. For example, they bought Bartra last year for €8m, I don't think Barca would sell any of their players anymore for such a reasonable price to Dortmund, they will be trying to do business with some other club who didn't try to screw them over and publically tarnish their reputation in the press.

That is called burning bridges

Even if those bridges have been burnt and they never do business again, I think Dortmund will be happy with that. I daresay Barca have more to gain out of that relationship than Dortmund.

 

[Nick7]

If a player wants to leave, they should start accepting reasonable offers. Now you can discuss what is reasonable, but 150m for Dembele ain't fecking reasonable.

It is reasonable to Dortmund.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Dortmund are well within their rights to stand their ground but I do dislike how absurd the market has become. I mean, the numbers that are being demanded for Coutinho and Dembele are ridiculous. While it's fine for us as United fans watching this, but the next time we want a top talent we're going to get taken to the cleaners too and our owners and management will have these same problems in closing the deal.

Liverpool and Dortmund are historical clubs. Why should they give up their best players just because Barca asked? Especially since they both recently signed contracts. If you go after players with buyout clauses or two years or less on their contracts you can avoid paying as much.

 

[Sarni]

Dortmund are well within their rights to stand their ground but I do dislike how absurd the market has become. I mean, the numbers that are being demanded for Coutinho and Dembele are ridiculous. While it's fine for us as United fans watching this, but the next time we want a top talent we're going to get taken to the cleaners too and our owners and management will have these same problems in closing the deal.

We've done well to build the foundation while the market was still a little less crazy - funny that we can say that having just paid £89m for Pogba and £75m for Lukaku but spending £165m on the pair can actually be considered a good business after the prices of Coutinho and Dembele, not to mention £30m for Bailly and £50m or so which looked ridiculous at the time for Martial. We just need to hold on to our brightest young talent and hope that De Gea, Bailly, Shaw, Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Lukaku can bring us success. We won't be able to retool the whole team during every other transfer window anymore.

I think the market is eventually going to move to players running their contracts down to get great contracts elsewhere as transfer fees will have become too much to handle for non-oil clubs. We have to eventually see football movement being managed the same way NBA is, with salary caps and no-compensation transfers, at least in the biggest leagues as smaller leagues sort of rely on transfer income to sustain the business.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Liverpool and Dortmund are historical clubs. Why should they give up their best players just because Barca asked? Especially since they both recently signed contracts. If you go after players with buyout clauses or two years or less on their contracts you can avoid paying as much.

When did I say they should do that?

 

[Sarni]

Dortmund will have to pay £25m - £30m for any talented young player they will want to buy now. Chances of hitting the same level of player Dembele promises to be are slim, 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 will turn out to be this good and the rest will not reach that level or even get close. They took Emre Mor last year and he hasn't been very good for them, there will be more Mors than Dembeles going forward.

 

[prtk0811]

Dortmund are well within their rights to stand their ground but I do dislike how absurd the market has become. I mean, the numbers that are being demanded for Coutinho and Dembele are ridiculous. While it's fine for us as United fans watching this, but the next time we want a top talent we're going to get taken to the cleaners too and our owners and management will have these same problems in closing the deal.

It depends on demand and supply and in what circumstances and from whom are you buying.

We don't have to pay 70 m for Eric Bailly or lindelof or mkh or 150 m for martial.

 

[Hawks2008]

So its Dembele to Barca and and Mbappe to PSG? Nice to see we didn't attempt to go for next generations superstars...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We've done well to build the foundation while the market was still a little less crazy - funny that we can say that having just paid £89m for Pogba and £75m for Lukaku but spending £165m on the pair can actually be considered a good business after the prices of Coutinho and Dembele, not to mention £30m for Bailly and £50m or so which looked ridiculous at the time for Martial. We just need to hold on to our brightest young talent and hope that De Gea, Bailly, Shaw, Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Lukaku can bring us success. We won't be able to retool the whole team during every other transfer window anymore.

I think the market is eventually going to move to players running their contracts down to get great contracts elsewhere as transfer fees will have become too much to handle for non-oil clubs. We have to eventually see football movement being managed the same way NBA is, with salary caps and no-compensation transfers, at least in the biggest leagues as smaller leagues sort of rely on transfer income to sustain the business.

That's a good point. While I felt Lukaku was too expensive at the time and to be honest I'd still take Dembele at 130 million over him, you are absolute correct that we have managed to build a lot of our would be core right before the market has gone batshit insane. Some would argue Pogba and Lukaku were a part of that but all in all we've gotten a lot key signings in key positions done before the storm.

If that move (to no transfer fees) sanitises the market then I'm all for it. At the same time it could lead to loyalty being an even more irrelevant thing in the game. Although I guess clubs could offer players incentives to stay.

 

[AR87]

We've done well to build the foundation while the market was still a little less crazy - funny that we can say that having just paid £89m for Pogba and £75m for Lukaku but spending £165m on the pair can actually be considered a good business after the prices of Coutinho and Dembele, not to mention £30m for Bailly and £50m or so which looked ridiculous at the time for Martial. We just need to hold on to our brightest young talent and hope that De Gea, Bailly, Shaw, Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Lukaku can bring us success. We won't be able to retool the whole team during every other transfer window anymore.

I think the market is eventually going to move to players running their contracts down to get great contracts elsewhere as transfer fees will have become too much to handle for non-oil clubs. We have to eventually see football movement being managed the same way NBA is, with salary caps and no-compensation transfers, at least in the biggest leagues as smaller leagues sort of rely on transfer income to sustain the business.

I think the market pre-Neymar transfer is the new reality and I don't see that as an untenable market for United. That transfer just overheated the market at the top end, so if you didn't get business done before that, especially for attacking players, then you're in a tough spot as Barca are discovering.

I think Mou saw this coming and why he was so edgy about getting our transfer business done early and not just because he wanted to have everybody in to work through preseason. Anyways, I think we have one more summer of major transfer spending before we have a squad that will require fine tuning and replenishment rather than significant overhaul.

Instituting an NBA style system is impossible unless you get all clubs across Europe to agree to salary caps, and maximum individual player contracts. That would be interesting as it would also make player swaps more frequent than they are now, but this seems like a hope and a dream more than anything else.

 

[lawliet354]

If a player wants to leave, they should start accepting reasonable offers. Now you can discuss what is reasonable, but 150m for Dembele ain't fecking reasonable.

Reasonable for who? For the buyers? Football club is business, why would they want to please the buyer and got less money for the property you own?

 

[The red panther]

How can you possibly believe Barca are being screwed. They're not being forced to sign him. If they didn't believe he could justify the £150 million they wouldn't be signing him. If they think he's not worth that much and are still going to buy him anyway, that's Barca being incompetent, not being screwed. Obviously they think the fee will eventually be justified.
Put it this way, do you think Dortmund are doing anything that Barca themselves wouldn't do in the same position? In the absence of a release clause, do you think Neymar would have transferred to PSG? And if so, do you think it would have been for 220m euros?

Look in case of Neymar, I'am actually happy there was a release clause. I think the big benefit of release clauses are to avoid situations like this with Dembele.

Barca and Neymar both agreed on the release clause, there can be no discussion of being screwed or being unreasonable, if PSG pays, he is released, simple as that. The only issue with that is how PSG financed that transaction as it wasn't really PSG that had to cough up the money but their rich owners did, from their own private pockets, which is completely against the idea of FFP. That is the issue. The reason Barca feels they are screwed by PSG is that no club could have actually paid the release clause whilst respecting FFP regulations, I mean United is one the richest clubs in the world and we could Neymar alot more than PSG but even we would never pay that for 1 player. So under FFP, that release clause protected their investment, the fact PSG triggered with outside money screwed them over and that is the point they are mad about and understandably so.

If Dortmund would have agreed a release clause of 150m, there also wouldn't be a discussion because Dembele agreed to it. But I don't think if they would have been obligated to put in that it would have been at 150m because at the time, Dembele was bought for 15m, he was a talent with everything to proof, the release clause Dembele and his agent would have agreed to would likely have been much lower, you know mostly these things are in line with the agreed upon salary. Say they would have agreed for something like 90m, as at that time Dortmund would have considered 90m more valuable than the contract they had so it was a good safeguard for their investment. Now a year later, Barca was forced to let Neymar go for 200m, they could just pay the clause and get Dembele for 90m. In my opnion those amounts and those transactions would have made sense and they would make this entire circus so much simpler.

Dortmund would have never valued Dembele at 150m a year ago, not even this year at the start of the summer. They are just using their absolute power to squeeze much more out of it than they think he is worth and the only way this is working for them is because PSG inflated the market with triggering Neymar's clause and now they are expecting Barca to cough up an inflated price because they know they can and because they know they want him alltough he ain't worth anywhere near that amount.

I absolutly hate how PSG ruined the market with their Qatar money spending spree, now all clubs have lost their senses and you just know the next time United will move in for a good talent, we will be paying the same tax Barcelona is now paying. I think that is ridiculous.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It depends on demand and supply and in what circumstances and from whom are you buying.

We don't have to pay 70 m for Eric Bailly or lindelof or mkh or 150 m for martial.

Mkhitarian would go for huge money in today's market. No way he'd cost less than 50-60 million.

It depends on circumstances to an extent. But there's a clear shift in the market that looks like affecting a lot more clubs than Barcelona.

 

[The red panther]

Reasonable for who? For the buyers? Football club is business, why would you want to please the buyer and got less money for the property you own?

For both parties

It is like when DDG wanted to leave. United does not want to sell him, but if DDG really wanted to go, we would not stand in his way, we would just expect a fair compensation. Dortmund knows fully well that Dembele isn't worth 150m and asking for it isn't asking for fair compensation, it is just being impossible to negotiate with and standing in the players way.

 

[JPRouve]

For both parties

It is like when DDG wanted to leave. United does not want to sell him, but if DDG really wanted to go, we would not stand in his way, we would just expect a fair compensation. Dortmund knows fully well that Dembele isn't worth 150m and asking for it isn't asking for fair compensation, it is just being impossible to negotiate with and standing in the players way.

Since Barcelona can pay, Dortmund are perfectly reasonable. They have their own interests to protect.