Rashford is from the academy, we haven't spent anything to buy him. If a club comes in for him, how much should we quietly accept instead of telling the club to feck off let alone quoting a price?
Ousmane Dembele | Fee agreed with Dortmund, medical on Monday, Barca go from MSN to LSD
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Because he is bound by contract to play for us for four additional years. A contract he signed and that earns him millions.
If he wants to play elsewhere, he has to find a club that is ready to compensate us for giving up said contract. Given that the contract has no set sum to terminate it, the figure of the compensation is set bv us and no one else.
You can blabber about greed as much as you want, in truth we actually don´t want that money and are far more interested in protecting all of our assets and not just Dembele. You can protect assets by simply taking them completely off the market, but we are not in this position as a club. Instead we send a very clear message, that every of our players can be signed, just for an unreasonable price.
Again, where have Dortmund claimed to be the victim in this? I'm not asking you about your impression of the general consensus as you put it. Has anyone significant associated with Dortmund said anything where they claim to be a victim in all of this?
Not for me, absolute bargain
€15m upfront + €15m variables + €20m sell on fee = €50m * 10 = €500m > €150m.
Nice maff bro.
A 100m would already go a long way of compensating that.
If they want 150m, sure they can ask that but than you are just being unreasonable.
Two players where it happened, three players where it didn't. This is a shite board, no one denies that - but ultimately is it impossible to say unequivocally they were instructed to do anything as this is hardly the first time players have attempted to force moves via these tactics
No one's a victim here
If Rashford absolutley wants to go, I hope United isn't going to just in his way and end up with an unhappy player.
Indeed but the player doesn't want to stay either.
How much should we quietly accept going by your Dembele method?
Yeah true. I rushed that post and used the wrong wording.
That is the whole fecking point. That price is supposed to be unreasonable. It is meant to make clubs think twice before poaching our players out of long term contracts.
What a stupid post. Dortmund are demanding £150 million because they can. Why should Dortmund bow down to bigger clubs without getting everything they possibly can.
"I understand they aren't happy he already wants to leave but that is just the way things work". Yeah, and Dortmund asking for a large chunk of change in compensation is also how things work. He can have all the ambition he wants, but that doesn't mean Dortmund need to roll over and facilitate his dreams. They need to look out for their own interests.
Barca are interested in him because he has the potential to become the best in the world - I'd say it would be negligent of Dortmund not to demand such a high amount in the current market.
why the feck should they be reasonable? they're getting screwed over at the end of the window and for arguably one of the most potentially talented wingers in the world.
Barca and Dortmund aren't that much to blame imo. Dembele is and because Dembele didn't set a clause with Dortmund he has basically let Dortmund decide the conditions of the transfer pretty much how they saw fit. Which they did. Greedy, yes. But it's their right to be greedy and accept the eventual consequences that can come from that. The market makes it very hard for 2nd tier clubs to not be greedy when a tier 1 club comes for one of their players. So I can understand the temptations from Dortmund's side to milk Barca as much as they can.
But Dembele should've been wiser when he put pen on paper with BvB. He should have been more clever and set a release clause with Dortmund for when Barca wanted him, not a low one, but a more reasonable one, something like 90m. which is also a lot, but not crazy. He didn't do that, Dortmund got advantage of the situation and of the market, and he (Dembele) started to behave badly so he can put pressure on Dortmund.
Barca is the least to blame here though, with no evidence whatsoever that they were behind Dembele's tantrums. Again though, can't say I'm surprised people here jumped the gun to blame Barca, as they do that at every chance, right or not. Barca paid a record sum for Dembele, and I'm hoping he sees the huge investment Barca made with him.
I'm sure that many will continue to think Barca themselves gave a call to Dembele and said to him some coded message like 'Son, the eagle has left the nest. Proceed to plan B'. That's what they want to believe anyway, and in a period when newspapers run with 6-7 versions of the same situation they surely will have some sources who will back that belief.
But Dembele should've been wiser when he put pen on paper with BvB. He should have been more clever and set a release clause with Dortmund for when Barca wanted him, not a low one, but a more reasonable one, something like 90m. which is also a lot, but not crazy. He didn't do that, Dortmund got advantage of the situation and of the market, and he (Dembele) started to behave badly so he can put pressure on Dortmund.
Barca is the least to blame here though, with no evidence whatsoever that they were behind Dembele's tantrums. Again though, can't say I'm surprised people here jumped the gun to blame Barca, as they do that at every chance, right or not. Barca paid a record sum for Dembele, and I'm hoping he sees the huge investment Barca made with him.
I'm sure that many will continue to think Barca themselves gave a call to Dembele and said to him some coded message like 'Son, the eagle has left the nest. Proceed to plan B'. That's what they want to believe anyway, and in a period when newspapers run with 6-7 versions of the same situation they surely will have some sources who will back that belief.
Naturally you agree with the person advocating Dortmund rolling over for you guys. Shame your club doesn't share the same philosophy of making it easy for players when they want to leave.
He's made many stupid posts in this thread, too much to count actually.
Dortmund didn't roll over for anyone. Objectivelly, what happened is Barca overpaid for Dembele because he was stupid when he signed with Dortmund without setting up some clause that would allow him to leave in more 'normal' terms, to what he already made clear is the club he wants to play for when he's ready.
Players don't really leave Barca except to get paid more money. When other clubs pay them a lot more than Barca, they usually pay the release clause. As soon as Neymar said to Barca staff he wants to go, he left the training ground with the acceptance of Valverde, and did the medical with PSG, signing the contract soon after that.
Well yeah because they couldn't stop him, because he had a release clause. PSG paid it and Neymar went. If you guys paid the €150m two weeks ago you'd have Dembele. But you didn't.
You know these two things aren't mutually exclusive right? I think it's an absurd amount of money for a largely unproven player. In one stroke he could become the 2nd most expensive player ever based on not much merit. On the other hand, I also think that Dortmund have every right to ask for it. They know the buyer is desperate, they know the buyer had a large windfall recently and they are very much reluctant sellers with no obligation to sell. Dortmund have the power to ask for whatever they want.
How can you expect a club to pay 150m. flat out like that? It's called negotiations. In the end Barca were pressured to sign Dembele and show trust in Dembele to repay the huge invested made in him. Nothing wrong with how Barca handled it.
I didn't claim either were
I know Dortmund didn't roll over for you. But you were agreeing with the person who suggested they should have accepted less. The fact they've managed to get £150 million rather than the £100 million @The red panther reckons would be a fair price suggests they were right to demand more.
Equating the Neymar situation to Dembele doesn't work, is the point of my post.
The thing is most people automatically position themselves anti-Barca, not because they believe in a principle or something like that. But because it's Barca and they hate Barca. I rarely do that. If I am against PSG using qatar money to take Neymar for example, I'll be against PSG using qatar money to take Isco as well, no matter if he plays for Madrid or not. It's called forming an opinion and adopting a stance based on a principle, not based on your liking or disliking of a certain team.
Since release clauses reduce the bargaining position of the club in future transfer negotiations, they usually cost the player in form of reduced wages.
Furthermore bvb doesn't do release clauses anymore since loosing Götze to bayern.
Dembele didn't really had to go to Dortmund then. Nobody forced him. He put himself in the position to let Dortmund ask however money they wanted for him. Luckily Barca buckled and paid the money.
I think you're quite well known on here for doing the exact opposite.
Only by the ones who don't really understand my posts, or take things out of context from them.
I'm not a big fan of the way Barca operate, but that's not warping my stance here one bit.
The selling club, in every transfer, needs to look out for themselves and try to get the best possible price they can. Likewise, the buying club has every right to try to negotiate a lower fee. Barca's problem is that they are in a poor position in these negotiations, giving Dortmund the balance of power.
To suggest they should be happy to accept lower because a) it's Dembele's wish and b) they'd still make a massive profit is nonsense when they have no desire to sell in the first place.
We've let players go cheaply before because Fergie didn't want to stand in their way. The difference in those circumstances is that we were happy to let the players go.
Sorry to be harsh, but you are appearing incredibly naive. It's how life works. What you are suggesting is utterly ludicrous. There is not a money-making business on earth that does not attempt to earn the maximum amount it can for its assets. Feck burning bridges, Barca aren't being forced to purchase Dembele. As other posters noted, if Barca believe they're being overcharged, they won't fecking pay it. This isn't a ransom, it's a financial exchange between two willing parties. Negotiations take place; if terms are not agreed upon, parties can part way somewhat amicably. Dortmund are doing what any club in world football would do.
Do you expect Dortmund to feel extreme sympathy for Barca losing Neymar, and as such, charitably lower the asking price for Dembele because it would be a nice thing to do? I cannot understand your point at all.
Nobody is suggesting anything here. Being greedy is basically the exaggerated use of the right to own something or to sell something in this case. I can use my right and still come across as being greedy. Which is exactly Dortmund's case here. Greedy within their rights.
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And what is it about burning bridges - will Barcelona be less likely to come back in the future to buy a player that Dortmund don't really want to sell? Even if it will be so, it's no great loss for Dortmund. Will Barcelona refuse to sell them a player in the future? It's unlikely.
As are Barca, surely. Buying yet another WC player. Bit greedy, isn't it. That's how this whole thing works.
The purpose of breeding top level academy kids is to have them for long long time, which helps the team chemistry and stability, that's why we build them up, if he makes it on a high level there is no point considering any offers. We ain't a business club.
It's bad when prices go up in an inflated way. In the absence of FFP this is basically what oil clubs want. To inflate the market so that they will be the major players, not the historic profitable clubs who have got where they are financially after a century (or even more) of evolution. This is bad news for everyone not being sheik owned.
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