Yup. a dumb move, to not consider the one you are carrying around as part of the initial inventory thus preventing it being counted as one of the devices being used in testing.
OT EVACUATED | Device signed as having been recovered, could NOT be detected by sniffer dogs
- Thread starter Badunk
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Yup. a dumb move, to not consider the one you are carrying around as part of the initial inventory thus preventing it being counted as one of the devices being used in testing.
Christ
Cannot believe people are still saying that we're to blame.
I've worked in a manufacturing plant; the sheer size of it meant that it's impossible for everybody to check everything. You just let the security guys do their job. Besides, what's the point of outsourcing something if you're going to monitor every single thing? The club cannot be blamed for assuming that the contractor would be somewhat competent.
I've worked in a manufacturing plant; the sheer size of it meant that it's impossible for everybody to check everything. You just let the security guys do their job. Besides, what's the point of outsourcing something if you're going to monitor every single thing? The club cannot be blamed for assuming that the contractor would be somewhat competent.
if i pay a third party to do something for me i sure as feck don't pay another of my own guys to then do half the work for them. do we then pay for a checker checker to check the first check to account for human error?
like i say, beat the club with what stick you like, god knows there are currently shit loads of them, i don't think this is one of them.
Because people are morons.
I would rather the club, knew the implication of leaving a fake bomb laying about and knew exactly where they are being placed. This does not seem the case, because if it was, the whole thing would have been averted.
Well obviously no one knew where the devices were placed from the club, otherwise it would have been avoided?
Otherwise your letting a 3rd party company into a major sporting venue, days before a game, planting fake bombs left right and centre and either haven't got the intelligence to ask where there were hidden, taken someone's word that they had been removed or couldn't be arsed to check they had gone.
I don't think people are saying the club are to 'blame'. I think it is fair to say, however, that is hugely embarrassing for a club of our stature.
The club is not to blame but our procedures for dealing with external companies like this probably could be better.
I mean, and this is getting quite outlandish and movie scenarioish, but what if someone from this company is a nutjob and actually wanted to plant a bomb in the stadium as part of this training exercise and they get it in and it stays there because we just take their word they've cleared everything up.
I mean, and this is getting quite outlandish and movie scenarioish, but what if someone from this company is a nutjob and actually wanted to plant a bomb in the stadium as part of this training exercise and they get it in and it stays there because we just take their word they've cleared everything up.
Thats not what you said though.
Pay a checker?!
Like a said I'm sure we have a stadium security manager.
It should be pretty obvious that if you have a firm planting bombs in your 'house' you would go round with them to check they have done what they said they have - it's an obvious protocol the club should have in place.
The conspiracy theories thread is in the General forum.I know, I know
Wow - that is bigger than I was imagining. That should have been found - for me (a moron, apparently) I think the club shares a measure of responsibilty in this particular, entirely bizarre, scenario. What a mad season it has been.
Nail on head.
In a world where terrorists trained to fly a commercial airliner, it's complete negligence to let a company in planting fake bombs with seemingly no supervision from the club, at very least someone should have known where these were.
True, I probably wouldn't have thought their mistake would be quite this basic. I would definitely have thought some sort of feck up could happen though. More likely a member of staff or the public stumbling upon a device without knowing what was going on or something.
Ah yes, that obvious protocol with staging bomb disposal operations in one of the worlds biggest football stadiums. How can the club have been so blind, we have a lot more knowledge on this subject.
What risk? call the security company that was there 4 days earlier planting fake bombs around the stadium
And on the off chance it wasn't what happens if you have done nothing and it happens to be a real bomb? Very easy now to say it should have been treated as a fake all along. The reality is that in our current world situation, you just can't operate that way.
He looks like he's posing for a Daily Mail photo shoot accompanying a story about a man dissatisfied with his shop bought 'fake bomb'.'Look, I'll be honest, they didn't need to evacuate the stadium. It was an inanimate device'.
Yes, but who else would know?
What risk? call the security company that was there 4 days earlier planting fake bombs around the stadium
And they say well we counted them all in but it does look like one of ours. You saying the club/police then take the risk? Maybe but I think they'd do a controlled explosion anyway.
We made some mistakes prior obviously but the handling of it after was top notch.
My local boys Wycombe called a game off 20mins before a game once, as the pitch was frozen, and they hadn't bothered to put the undersoil heating on. It was alright though, as the opposition were only from...Fleetwood, a cheeky 6hours away by coach!!
That was embarrassing.
But this behaviour from the security firm redefines security! I doubt that guy's firm will do much business any time soon, or again!
That was embarrassing.
But this behaviour from the security firm redefines security! I doubt that guy's firm will do much business any time soon, or again!
The embarrassment should be for the person who made the mistake. I think we did the right thing once the device was discovered. It seems like people are projecting their frustrations onto every event concerning the club, that's not fair.
At the end of the day, nobody got hurt. It's good that the incompetence is highlighted during such an event as opposed to a real attack.
That bloke who sat down on the john must've literally completed crapped himself when he saw the device.
But yeah the club and the fake bomb squad Co...were both at fault.
But yeah the club and the fake bomb squad Co...were both at fault.
Then why would you spend millions on engaging a security "expert"? Any company engages outsiders because they have better resources and expertise. If the club is going to engage a contractor to provide security, and keep monitoring every little aspect of it, they probably should not have outsourced the activity in the first place. They could have done it themselves.
Exactly. People who are like "the club should have checked" need to realise we literally hired our security out to a team of "experts" who then reported to us that they had recovered everything. We did everything by the book as we were supposed to.
D
I think your missing my point.
Yes I can completely see why you would hire someone for their expertise. But this wasn't a training course in some empty warehouse, they were placing fake bombs around the stadium days before an event. You simply can't rely on a signed bit of paper, the worrying thing for me is, we obviously didn't request key information from this firm. If we can't agree on Utd sending someone round to check, surely you can see my point that at the very least we should have had a plan to where these guys were planting these fecking things.
IF we didn't have that information (and it appear we didn't) then in my opinion we are fecking idiots.
Personally I feel that the club does have to take some blame surely after such an exercise there needs to be checks that everything is back to being as it should. On the other hand the evacuation and the actions of the authorities afterwards was top notch plus what will come out of this is that the checks leading up to games will become better as well as the checks taken by the club and contractor after such another exercise.
Agreed. I can't understand people's views in this thread - maybe lots of people in here have never dealt with contractors in their own employment.
Protocol will have been followed to ensure that the 'expert' security firm signed in / out the devices. I highly suspect our own security (again, I think we outsource this) would have given them a detailed briefing as to what they could / couldn't do on site and what was expected of them. The 'expert' security firm were clearly lazy / sloppy and messed up their job.
I'm not sure how our employees, in whatever level of expertise they might carry in this sort of thing, could have possibly known to effectively do the 'experts' jobs for them.
Surprised how bitter the MD of the firm sounds, like it wasn't his company's fault!
The club knowing where the bombs are being placed in the first place is implied...
I'm just shocked at the possibility of you being in charge of anyone to be honest.
I'm sure there's a protocol in place; a checklist or something. Of course the club have somebody dealing with them. We're not going to have random people run around without some agreement on which areas they will have access to and what they will and will not do. It's not that the club would have given the firm complete freedom to do whatever they want.
Not being able to count? That's basic stuff. You expect some amount of competence. If we take your line of reasoning, every manager in the world at every job should constantly monitor their employees; it would be a nightmare to get stuff done.
come and spend a weekend in one of my cages and see for yourself if you like.
You're not selling it to me, is action guaranteed in one of your cages?
I would say take calculated measures. Obviously get everyone out is the first thing
But, i mean for example, there are 13 bombs being placed. Let say they were all placed on the back of toilet doors. There are, i dont know, there 1000 toilet cubicles in OT.
The club should have known exactly where the bombs were being place e.g bomb 5 -cubicle 832 etc.
So come match day, the bomb found, lets say was bomb 5, surprise, surprise is located in cubicle 832. Now it could have been a real bomb and be a massive coincidence being in the same cubicle out of 1000 possbilities, but someone in OT must have come to that conclusion of a error.
Or maybe they did, maybe the cock up was discovery instantly but as soon as the police were involved they took the action of total evacuation and the controlled explosion anyway, which would be their protocol
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True.
Though if we knew where they were going surely we would know where these devices were.
What I would like to know is, did we know / request to know where they were planting these things.
IF we didn't then we fecked up, not saying it's entirely our fault and I thought we handled it well yesterday, I didn't sense any panic.
But for example, this link says it was missed pre game.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...ubicle-7984717
If we knew where these things were then surely it should have been communicated to the staff.
That for me is the key point. Did we know where these things were?
Ok then Captain Hindsight
I would say there are two answers:
1. No. They had no idea where they are being placed. Not checking they how many devices were being brought in and how many were brought out.
2. Yes, but as soon as the matter was passed to the police, the police had no option but to evacuate and conduct a controlled explosion
Either way the club is not entirely absorbed from any blame, there is definitely failures internally
Supposedly, the sniifer dogs would have found it if it was a real bomb. According to the club, the sniffer dogs missed it because it had no explosive chemicals