Ole says this season will be used to find next season’s squad

ivaldo said:
He wasn't given one when he was interim. He may have come on as manager before then but we didn't sign any player in January.

Because the first two aren't ready to play first team football. Seriously, give me a single example of a manager throwing in as many inexperienced youngsters as you and others are suggesting he does. Just one.
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Greenwood is ready to play first team football. He isnt worse than James, Lingard, Mata or Pereira.
 
Next season...I suspect Ole's just trying his best to stay in the job. When things don't turn out as planned folk tend to move the goal posts. LvG was the best at it.
 
OrcaFat said:
I agree. The buck stops with Ole. The pertinent questions are:

what is he trying to do?

how is he doing against that target?

I argue it is rather more complicated than just saying: he’s there to win matches. Praise or criticism on a match by match basis is meaningless.
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Agreed bud
 
ivaldo said:
4 18 year olds making debuts and starting for a top tier club? Nah.
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You have many trying to convince us we are not a top tier club anymore.

A top tier club would’ve sacked him two times already.

Rangnick have had many teams averaging 22-23 years olds so I gave you one example.
 
Jaysus, did Ole just said that?! How is that acceptable for United manager to ask basically 18 months trial period? Remember Liverpool who were in a rut on and off the pitch (George Gillet debacle) had the sense to immediately sacked Hodgson. It's because they know the loser mentality will bring them nowhere.

To put it simply, Ole has not sufficient tactial acumen. As few posters has alluded, the game plan against top, mid and bottom team are pretty much the same. Counter-attack work better against attacking teams because they naturally leave space behind (Pool, City, Spurs, Chelsea. Contrast this to result against defensive teams then the tactical ineptness is blindingly obvious.
 
Ole’s statement suggests we’re going to splash the cash this summer to upgrade the positions where the current players aren’t good enough. I’m not sure how much we can spend within FFP, but it sounds promising.
 
Amerifan said:
Ole’s statement suggests we’re going to splash the cash this summer to upgrade the positions where the current players aren’t good enough. I’m not sure how much we can spend within FFP, but it sounds promising.
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Nothing he said suggests this.
 
NewGlory said:
Uh-huh. And he got sacked
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Yes, you'll find most people in this trade do. Ole relegated Cardiff and then got sacked for being rubbish in the championship. We still hired him. He's not superman, he didn't dissappear to a frozen fortress of solitude to become a super manager, he was managing in the Norwegian league.

Ole is going to manage mid table at best. If Poch could only replicate what he did at Spurs he'd be our best manager since SAF. He'd build a platform for a better manager to take us to the title. Personally I feel he's good enough to get us over the line. He did what he did at Spurs on a very limited budget.
 
Enigma_87 said:
You have many trying to convince us we are not a top tier club anymore.

A top tier club would’ve sacked him two times already.

Rangnick have had many teams averaging 22-23 years olds so I gave you one example.
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And he put 4 18 year olds into his first team with no prior first team experience, did he? Those are the goal posts.
 
Zlatattack said:
If Poch could only replicate what he did at Spurs he'd be our best manager since SAF.
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No, mate, he would not be. Based on results that would clearly be Mourinho, since Jose actually won trophies and finished second. Poch won no trophies in a longer spell and he got sacked just as well.

You are assuming Poch would win trophies with us since we have more money than Spurs. That is a pure speculation and far from a fact.
 
We had a net spend last summer of roughly 75 million making Ogden’s reports last summer of a 100 million pound budget pretty accurate. I don’t see liverpool 15/16 as a comparable. Klopp has been fully backed by the liverpool board led by football people, which makes a major difference. If Ole thinks we’ll emulate liverpool’s rise he will be disappointed.
 
Traub said:
He had a clear identity on how he wanted his team to play. He just didn’t have the players.

Besides for that though, he had much more breathing room after having won a league in a ridiculously one sided league whilst almost winning the champions league as well! If Ole had that record and a clear plan, I’m sure a lot more people would be forgiving. The Ole apologists are setting us back even further.
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Yeah this comparison with Klopp in his first season is ridiculous. For a start he had been managing one of the top sides in Germany and has a clear idea of how he wants his team to play.

We have been watching Ole's team for a year now and there is still no patterns to the play at all.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Obviously.

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/1899-hoffenheim/2009/2/

Here is just one example.

You honestly believe Ole is the first one to incorporate 4 teenagers in the first team? Seriously?
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Well no, not obviously. Listing a squad doesn't prove anything. Were you just hoping I wasn't going to click on the link?

Instead of asking those questions, why not spend the time and actually read what's been written? We are talking about starting 4 18 year olds with no prior first team experience for a team expected to challenge in the top 4. Not being in the squad, we are talking starting.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Obviously.

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/1899-hoffenheim/2009/2/

Here is just one example.

You honestly believe Ole is the first one to incorporate 4 teenagers in the first team? Seriously?
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Right on, it's not like we have prime Carrick ahead of Garner, prime Rooney blocking Greenwood or we are fighting for top honors. We are a shit to average team with a game raising attitude carrying a number of underperforming, useless and overpaid millionaires such that fielding a couple of 18 year olds won't cost us whilst the potential upside is enormous.
 
ivaldo said:
Well no, not obviously. Listing a squad doesn't prove anything. Were you just hoping I wasn't going to click on the link?

Instead of asking those questions, why not spend the time and actually read what's been written? We are talking about starting 4 18 year olds with no prior first team experience for a team expected to challenge in the top 4. Not being in the squad, we are talking starting.
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Well you dont just start by starting them, you drop feed them minutes extending and deepening their roles as the season goes. Greenwood, in particular, has gone through that process and he has performed well enough to deserve a more important role. Circa 08 we were starting the likes of Rafael in CL knockout matches and in title run ins, I don't think it's much of a stretch to start someone like Greenwood ahead of a player so out of form that he hasn't created a goal in the league for a full calendar year.

Garner is still behind in terms of exerting his authority in senior football but that can only come with more first team exposure. There are times where you have to take the leap and see who will take first team football in their strides.
 
ivaldo said:
Well no, not obviously. Listing a squad doesn't prove anything. Were you just hoping I wasn't going to click on the link?

Instead of asking those questions, why not spend the time and actually read what's been written? We are talking about starting 4 18 year olds with no prior first team experience for a team expected to challenge in the top 4. Not being in the squad, we are talking starting.
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If you click on appearances you will easily see a squad that had many teenagers featured for them that season also in previous seasons and so forth.

Apart from Mason, how many starts have Garner,Gomes and Chong have in PL this season?

https://www.transfermarkt.com/tsg-1899-hoffenheim/durchschnittsalter/verein/533

Here’s another link to see Rangnick having a squad of 22/23 average age in a team that finished 7th in its first pro season.

How many starts does Mason have so far in the season? Don’t bother checking - only 1.

The youngest ever squad Ole has pulled so far is 24, compare it to Rangnick and you will see a big difference.

Also if you claim that we’re in the battle for too 4 then Ole should’ve been gone long time ago.
 
AneRu said:
Right on, it's not like we have prime Carrick ahead of Garner, prime Rooney blocking Greenwood or we are fighting for top honors. We are a shit to average team with a game raising attitude carrying a number of underperforming, useless and overpaid millionaires such that fielding a couple of 18 year olds won't cost us whilst the potential upside is enormous.
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1 start for Greenwood despite performing better than other options says it all.
 
Rockets Redglare said:
He can feck right off. If he wasn’t so loved by the fans he would’ve gone ages ago, Woodward has played a master stroke in being a club legend in as he knows he can get away with murder without the fans ever really turning on him.
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Woodward wins again
 
Enigma_87 said:
If you click on appearances you will easily see a squad that had many teenagers featured for them that season also in previous seasons and so forth.

Apart from Mason, how many starts have Garner,Gomes and Chong have in PL this season?

https://www.transfermarkt.com/tsg-1899-hoffenheim/durchschnittsalter/verein/533

Here’s another link to see Rangnick having a squad of 22/23 average age in a team that finished 7th in its first pro season.

How many starts does Mason have so far in the season? Don’t bother checking - only 1.

The youngest ever squad Ole has pulled so far is 24, compare it to Rangnick and you will see a big difference.

Also if you claim that we’re in the battle for too 4 then Ole should’ve been gone long time ago.
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Our squad last game had an average age of 24. For Manchester United. In the Premier League. And here we are, having this precise conversation. It's beggars belief.

Garner, Gomes and Chong aren't ready, with the latter simply being not good enough. Garner has shown that in the limited time me he has been given. Gomes is getting frozen out due to contract issues. Those that are ready, like Tuanzebe and Williams and Greenwood are being integrated into the side, to compliment an already young bunch in McTominay, Rashford, James etc. We have the youngest squad in the hardest league in the world here we are moaning that we aren't trusting in the youth. It's ridiculous. Anything to shit on the manager though, right?

I'm sorry mate, but you still haven't offered a comparable. This notion that we chuck in youngsters who have no first team experience into this environment is verging on ignorant. Hence why you can't offer up a similar circumstance.
 
Amerifan said:
Everything he said suggests this as a possibility. But yea, it’s more fun to be pressimistic.
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Quote where he said this then because atm this is simply your interpretation of what he meant. He's actually very coy when it comes to talking about transfers.
 
As frustrated as i am with our results against the poor sides (watford really pissed me off) a new manager is only going to spend another two years on a rebuild. So do we sack Ole and hire Poch and give him another two years to "rebuild" the club or do we stick with Ole for the time being?

My head says stick with Ole. But it could turn out that by this time next year we are looking for a new manager.

At least with Ole he is not copying the mistakes of Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho.
 
ivaldo said:
Our squad last game had an average age of 24. For Manchester United. In the Premier League. And here we are, having this precise conversation. It's beggars belief.

Garner, Gomes and Chong aren't ready, with the latter simply being not good enough. Garner has shown that in the limited time me he has been given. Gomes is getting frozen out due to contract issues. Those that are ready, like Tuanzebe and Williams and Greenwood are being integrated into the side, to compliment an already young bunch in McTominay, Rashford, James etc. We have the youngest squad in the hardest league in the world here we are moaning that we aren't trusting in the youth. It's ridiculous. Anything to shit on the manager though, right?

I'm sorry mate, but you still haven't offered a comparable. This notion that we chuck in youngsters who have no first team experience into this environment is verging on ignorant. Hence why you can't offer up a similar circumstance.
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https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/aufstellung/spielbericht/2578162

Here you are. Under LvG. Not isolated instance either.

Check Poch teams when he took over and what was the average age.

Zidane in 17/18 season fielded teams with average age 22.8 or 23 something.

Lampard fields regularly 24 something as average age and is top 4.

There are literally hundreds of examples.

The most promising player we have in our ranks - Mason - has started just one game this season. Check how many Rashford started at a similar age for example.
 
Hugh Jass said:
As frustrated as i am with our results against the poor sides (watford really pissed me off) a new manager is only going to spend another two years on a rebuild. So do we sack Ole and hire Poch and give him another two years to "rebuild" the club or do we stick with Ole for the time being?
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I mean listen to yourself man...

Option a) give a manager who’s failed at Cardiff and has been poor here 2 years to rebuild.

Option b) give a manager who did great jobs at Southampton and Spurs the 2 years instead.

Of course it’s fecking option b

On top of that, the new vision isn’t Ole’s vision, it’s clearly a club vision and the reason Mourinho lost his shit. The vision actually fits Pochettino’s ideals.
 
Hugh Jass said:
As frustrated as i am with our results against the poor sides (watford really pissed me off) a new manager is only going to spend another two years on a rebuild. So do we sack Ole and hire Poch and give him another two years to "rebuild" the club or do we stick with Ole for the time being?

My head says stick with Ole. But it could turn out that by this time next year we are looking for a new manager.

At least with Ole he is not copying the mistakes of Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho.
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We must be the only club and fanbase in the world that think it takes two seasons to rebuild a squad.

While Pep and Klopp didn't win the league in their first season you could see the influence they had and they had imposed their style on the existing players. By the start of their second seasons their rebuilds were almost complete but they hadn't spent a season floundering in the lower half of the table while they implemented it.
 
Frank Lampard has transfer ban and lost Hazard in the summer. He still able to take them in comfortable position to finish 4th.

Brendan Rodgers is punching way above the weight at 2nd place after losing 80 mil CB.

While Ole already given up after spending about 140 mil. Bizzare.

We could still save the season with a proven manager to get TOP 4 or win EL to get us into CL next season.

We must use everything at our disposal to save the season instead of giving up. We are the biggest club in the world and not Glazer's money making machine lead by his yes men Ed and Ole.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Frank Lampard has transfer ban and lost Hazard in the summer. He still able to take them in comfortable position to finish 4th.
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They had two years to plan around the transfer ban, keyword here being plan. 5 or 6 of their youngsters were out on loan gaining experience, at least 3 of them were under Lampard at Derby. Meanwhile, we never plan ahead further than six months. I'm going out on a limb here to make a bold prediction: neither Lampard nor Rodgers could replicate their success if they managed us.
 
mu4c_20le said:
They had two years to plan around the transfer ban, keyword here being plan. 5 or 6 of their youngsters were out on loan gaining experience, at least 3 of them were under Lampard at Derby. Meanwhile, we never plan ahead further than six months. I'm going out on a limb here to make a bold prediction: neither Lampard nor Rodgers could replicate their success if they managed us.
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Would they be doing better, is a better question.
 
mu4c_20le said:
They had two years to plan around the transfer ban, keyword here being plan. 5 or 6 of their youngsters were out on loan gaining experience, at least 3 of them were under Lampard at Derby. Meanwhile, we never plan ahead further than six months. I'm going out on a limb here to make a bold prediction: neither Lampard nor Rodgers could replicate their success if they managed us.
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So that justify us to throw the season away before Christmas? What had happened to this club?

Whether Chelsea really did plan 2 years ahead or not, the fact is they lost Hazard their best players for several season and signed no one. He also depend largely on youngsters to step up which is very impressive.

Rodgers has done well at all the club he managed Swansea, Liverpool, Celtic and Leicester. Not sure why you predict that he can't do well in man utd or at least do better than Ole now.
 
Enigma_87 said:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/aufstellung/spielbericht/2578162

Here you are. Under LvG. Not isolated instance either.

Check Poch teams when he took over and what was the average age.

Zidane in 17/18 season fielded teams with average age 22.8 or 23 something.

Lampard fields regularly 24 something as average age and is top 4.

There are literally hundreds of examples.

The most promising player we have in our ranks - Mason - has started just one game this season. Check how many Rashford started at a similar age for example.
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Great example. Firstly, tell me how LVGs tenure at the club turned out. Secondly, tell me how many of those players actually made it. Thirdly, there are 2 u20s in the starting line up, not four. So why is this something to hold up again?

Lampards players are significantly more experienced than ours. Something I explicitly mentioned at the beginning of all this. No?
 
Our squad is capable of better. Ole show some managerial skills now! Or resign if you can't do better.
 
ivaldo said:
Great example. Firstly, tell me how LVGs tenure at the club turned out. Secondly, tell me how many of those players actually made it. Thirdly, there are 2 u20s in the starting line up, not four. So why is this something to hold up again?
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Why does that matter?

You asked examples, I gave you many. How will Ole tenure end?

At the time Januzaj was bound to be a top player.

How many times has Ole started 4 u20 players in PL?
 
Dont know how someone was against Moyes for the right reasons can be for Ole for the wrong ones. Both are not good enough and never will be.

Good thing is, Ole will get time. Not 3 years, but he will comfortably get another year, more than Moyes could have wished for.
 
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