That's really not what he said. I think most people on here would feel the same, as much as we like what Ten hag's doing, if we are not challenging for the title in 3rd season we should find someone else. As it stands it looks like we might be ready to do that next season but I'm not counting my chickens until we see our summer transfer activity.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Managerial Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Right, so you agree that Ten Hag has done a good job this season by finishing top 4?
Ole done the same in his first season, yet I see positives about Ten Hag and negatives about Ole.
Ole improved in 2 seasons, 3rd season where he had to go title challenge, was sacked rightly so.
People like you saying he shouldn't have got the job, but then where is the same energy for Ten Hag, because all he is doing is doing EXACTLY what Ole did in his first year.
Yeah, Ten Hag is taking over a team with Bruno, Rashford, Sancho.
He shouldn't have been given the job when he finished 6th, remember ole had a full half season before his first full season so he wasn't coming in fresh in summer 2019. He did get top 4, but with the same points total that got 6th the season before, 66. If ten hag finishes with less than 70 it'll be pretty disappointing, if Ten Hag spends another 200m next summer and finishes with less than 80 points that'll be a failure too. You can't spend ole did and not make big leaps every season, stalling or regressing isn't what 440m should get you
What?
He was given the job after the psg game permanently, but by the end of that season the results dropped off and we finished 6th. There was no competition for his signature after the psg game, and appointing him full time half way through a caretaker role that he would have happily done until the summer was pure Woodward incompetence. Based on his results over the entire time he managed in 18/19, no one would have advocating for him to have been given the job full time, he didnt do so badly that you'd sack him and have to pay him off after signing him permanently but neither did he do enough to warrant getting the job full time had Woodward not jumped the gun and made him permanent manager so early
Absolutely spot on. Lets no forget the PSG result came off a fluke penalty award and not a convincing performance. Fact is we had the most expensive squad in league and highest wages with some excellent players. Overall Ole showed them some love as quite good at the man management side which got some good performances, but flip side was rubbish at clearlign out deadwood. Tactical insights were close to zero, as was game management. If had hired a really strong coach it might have worked but he stuck by Phelan.
"Ole shouldn't have been given full time job" is a valid argument, "Ole shouldn't be given full time job when he finished 6th" is a dumb argument tbh. He gained 3rd or 4th most points since he took over as ManUtd manager, it's not his fault that we finished 6th, credit should go to Mr Respect/Mr 3 times.
I just meant the season he finished 6th, not that was specifically the reason, though the fact that the results tailed off so much after that caretaker spell when I think we got into the top 4, that we finished 6th I guess kind of is the reason. But yeah more than that there was some point during his two full time seasons that he did so badly he deserved to get sacked, no he didn't. He just shouldn't have been appointed in the first place, once he got it full time, he performed below expectations for me, but not so far below that the board would have sacked him
He's absolutely not doing the the EXACT same thing.
Mine and many others complaints about Ole was he was not implementing any identity on the squad. He had his tried and true method of two deep banks and hit with explosive pace on the break. A style of football that is a relic of the 90s. It was not, and was proven, unsustainable for a team with aspirations of winning silverware; hence why we bottled finals and semi finals.
In a shorter amount of time under ten Hag, we have a very clear style. Patterns of play are now obvious and while we're not 100% there just yet we can see what he's doing and where we should end up.
What was abundantly clear by the end of Ole's first season/interim period was once the feel good factor of losing Jose was gone, he and the squad looked lost on the pitch. That remained the case until project restart, where there are myriad reasons for our upturn, but mainly a new signing that was outperforming the best players in the league; we return the same point about sustainability here as well. There was no way Bruno was going to maintain those figures moving forward and once teams figured out how to handle him, and to a lesser extent, Greenwood, we reverted back to the shit on a stick football that marred most of his reign.
There is a few things here. Saying he didn't implement a style when he did is just nonsense. What you are saying is he implemented a style that you didnt like. Because his style was counter attacking football, whether you like it or not.
So Ole's style was sit back defend and counter right? Let me show you some stats on possession.
19/20 - 54 % United scored 54 goals
20/21 - 54.5 % United scored 73 goals
22/23 - 51.9 % United have scored 34 goals
So Ole was sit back in 2 banks of 4 and counter yet has more possession than what Ten Hag has and scored more goals if you double the tally?
Patterns of play means we score that type of goal, show me what patterns of play do you see have resulted in similar goals? I can show you loads of Ole, where he defends, we play it out and we counter, it was a patter of play.
Okay so once teams figure out how to play against Casemiro and Ten Hag, who's to say we wont be the same as before?
I don't agree ole didn't have a style, but in today's game counter attacking style isn't enough to win leagues, you drop too many points against lower level sides who sit back, and teams like city and Liverpool have made getting to 90+ points a necessity, which counter attacking won't get you.
Ole benefited a lot from the fact that without fans in the stadium, the nature of home and away games changed quite a bit, there was still home advantage but not as much as usual, it meant teams more likely to attack us at old Trafford that would normally sit back, once this advantage was gone, oles team and style reverted to the 60-69 point level that it fits into.
I think that was the biggest issue, ole did OK, but he had a clear and obvious ceiling on how high he could go, because the way he knew how to play wasn't enough to win leagues in the modern premier league, he'd seen that style work under fergie and used it, but fergie would have adapted once it became clear that 80-85 points wasn't title winning level anymore, and he could switch between styles, ole had one way of playing and it meant he actually did quite well head to head against city, but also that he couldn't break smaller teams down
Okay lets do this then. So if we are to judge a manager based on his 3rd season, giving 0 fecks about the previous 2, why wold you give Ten Hag credit this season? It makes no sense.
Ole and Ten Hag both picked the job up in similar circumstances, after a shit show from the previous manager.
Okay, if you want to count the half season, you should also count that January transfer window, where we got no one in. So in 6 windows Ole got 440m right? Ten Hag in 2 windows has had 220m so in 1/3 of the windows he has had 1/2 of what Ole got to spend.
You can count points thats fine, I like to see league position because we might end up with our best ever points tally and not win a title because City and Pool get 90+ points.
I take it that you like to count points, so if we win the league with 76 points you wouldn't celebrate right?
I didn't say I give 0 fecks about the previous two, but we're judging Ole's performance in hindsight, if Ten Hag gets 3rd this season then 2nd then 6th, I won't give a feck how promising the first two seasons might have seemed.
If ole had finished with 97 points 2nd to city, no one would have called for him to get sacked. While anomalies do happen, generally finishing with 66 points isn't great.
I don't get why you're so defensive, a lot of us weren't excited by ole because he didn't seem to have a way of playing or a style that you could win the league with, a counter attacking side can't generally get enough points to win the league, he spent a lot got better players and managed a slight improvement year on year but the people who didn't want him, it was because we didn't feel he was capable of ever leading us to a league title. We do get that feeling from ten hag, and if he doesn't fulfil on early promise then we won't look back fondly in hindsight, we'll say well we were wrong
The fruits of Erik's patterns are still emerging, but our second goal at weekend is the blueprint for it. Prior to that the Spurs performance for 90 mins displayed the tactics moving forward.
The Bruno issue was exacerbated by Ole's inflexible nature. If another manager out thought him, he didn't know how to adapt and change the course of the game. There are countless examples of this, but the most obvious is the final where he was out thought tactically.
This is less of an issue for ten Hag as he has already displayed the acumen to overcome changes in tactical approaches that nullify his best players. He's also displayed a ruthlessness the Ole just doesn't possess. We're Casemiro suddenly to perform badly, ten Hag would drop him. Something underperforming players needn't worry about with Solksjaer.
Your possession stats again don't tell the true story. "Lesser" teams had no issue giving us the ball as we were completely toothless in possession. The zombie football was almost as bad an LVG at times and when teams realised we rarely could play through them, they countered us by sitting deep and letting us have the ball. With ten Hag we currently play a much more direct version of City's possession based style. We invert our fullbacks to provide overloads in the midfield and we try and drag players around the pitch to provide openings. Again our second goal at weekend being the best, most recent example of this.
Ole-ball was in its prime against the bigger teams as they had more expectation to dominate possession and attack us, which early on played into his tactic. When these managers figured that out and adjusted we were on the wrong side of some truly embarrassing hidings.
Your claim has no basis. We picked up the most points from losing positions under Ole which clearly indicates he knew how to react when things weren't going well. So much so that some called us Second Half United.
I am not going to respond to the whole post as I think we will go round in circles, we have all moved on from Ole and I am actually happy with Ten Hag so, I will leave it here.
The one thing I do take, I like the fact you have finally admitted Bruno is playing really well this season for us, I remember you questioning him alot before.
I knew that would be the next thing thrown out...
Yes we had an truly amazing record but anyone watching us could see it was simply unsustainable (a term that succinctly describes the whole of Ole's time in charge).
I implore you go back and watch those comeback games. We were often out performed and out thought by smaller teams, with our better (on paper at least) players pulling us out of the fire.
You remember the name "Second Half United" I remember " Moments FC".
I've never once questioned Bruno.
That's just plain wrong. We wouldn't finish second and reach a European final if what you wrote was anywhere near true.
I remember being called penalty fc, 25 penalties awarded in 2 seasons, really was an astonishing number, I think when people realised the lack of threat from open play they held back on tackling us in the box
And I can easily ask you to do the same as if you watch a compilation of our goals, it becomes very clear and obvious that we attacked with certain patterns and significant portion of our goals came from similar plays.
"Moments FC" is the narrative you choose to believe.
Imagine how shit everyone else must be if we had a Manager who couldn't pick a starting lineup.
And " Second Half United" is a narrative you have chosen to believe.
As others have pointed out to you, top teams and coaches don't tend to have a huge amount of comeback wins as they're rarely in the position to need to comeback.
In a league with most of the best managers in the world...Imagine how shit everyone else must be if we had a Manager who couldn't pick a starting lineup.
Let's be honest he finished 2nd because Liverpool had an unprecedented injury crisis and lampard is a worse manager than he is.
So, we reached consecutive top 4 league finishes for the first time since SAF, in the most competitive league in the world, with the best managers in the world, by coincidence? Even though 3 other managers (all of whom had serious credentials) tried before that and failed. Suuuuure...
Ten Hag has already mentioned about how the standards at the club were lacking. It's a sentiment that both Rashford and Bruno have also echoed.
It might not have been Mourinho levels of toxic where the players and managers were at each others throats, but let's not kid ourselves. The culture Ole brought to the club, we weren't winning anything.
It might not have been Mourinho levels of toxic where the players and managers were at each others throats, but let's not kid ourselves. The culture Ole brought to the club, we weren't winning anything.
nonsense since ole he had one way of management putting his arm around a player and it enabled the likes of Pogba and lingard and their agents to get so full of themselves
Yeah there's different types of toxicity and someone who's too lenient on the players can be just as bad as someone who's too demanding
Jose achieved back to back CL qualifications before Ole, and won silverware. He deserved to go; so consecutive top 4 finishes don't impress me, the same way constantly falling behind and needing moments of magic to bail us out doesn't impress me.
Feck me, this is a thread about Ole's managerial career post United and it's turned into another wankfest for the Ole haters. Why do they still have a massive chip on their shoulders? The guy's been gone a while now.
What are your excuses for the other teams in the league?
They'd didn't have teams as strong as ours, obviously. Surely the ole lovers should realise that his name not even being discussed at any other clubs when jobs become available, isn't some grand conspiracy but rather it's indicative of the type of job he did here.
Woop woop here we go. This again.
United are only 3rd because Liverpool have loads of injures and Chelsea had new owners, I hope you keeep the same energy like I said before.
I don't see who is arguing about impressing or deserving to go or stay.
Jose finished 6th the season we won the Europa League.
Do I understand correctly that for you that is more impressive than being one penalty kick away from winning the same trophy while finishing second?
Absolutely, he won the fecking thing.
How can that ever be spun as a lesser achievement than getting beat on penalties?
Are we going to attribute this to Arsenal this season?
Not accepting mediocrity = hater
So what is a success for you?