Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Beşiktaş J.K.

[Top_Bins]

When you cant argue...

Some just want to be on the forum to be the correct person, lording it over us fallible mortals.

I think what you said had merit. Of course, trophies are important but I enjoyed watching united more under Ole than I ever did LVG or ETH.
He really messed up by going with nostalgia and not being ruthlessly forward thinking.
There was no place for sentimentality under Fergie.
Maybe Ole needed to learn that. We'll see.

Ronaldo to Besiktas in 3...2...1...

 

[Grande]

Hm....everything?

Come on, Andy, you’re not still pished over Cantona saying he preferred to play with Ole over you?

 

[LInkash]

Trophies other than Prem/CL aren't that important on judging football, otherwise Van Gaal wouldn't have been sacked immediately after winning the FA Cup and Ten Hag not long after.

 

[roonster09]

Also, Solskjaer's football is overrated a lot here. Except first 10 games, we were pure counter attacking team.

Ironic this is used against Ole when he shits on most ManUtd managers in attacking metrics.

 

[Dr Foo]

I agree completely.

We always had loads of possession in our best days, because teams were scared of us. And when we had to carve teams open we had the players to do it.

But we were not and have never been a tiki-taka team.

There seems to be this thought that to beat Man City you have to become Man City.

That's what did for Ole (and signing Ronaldo). This idea that we had to play on the front foot. IMO you earn the right to play on the front foot by the opposition being so scared of leaving space in behind that they retreat. Then you just lay siege to their goal with wave after wave of attacks like we used to.

Sadly, the only team that's played like that in recent years is Liverpool. And that fact probably hurts me as much as how hard we've fallen.

Yes, I have always felt Liverpool since Klopp plays the way closest to our DNA (minus moments where they play the trent ball too much). Attacking with directness, pace, waves and pressing, merged with counter attack should be what we are, and I find it more exciting than tiki Taka ‘control’.

 

[1988]

Sack watch has been removed from the title? I for one am deeply offended.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Come on, Andy, you’re not still pished over Cantona saying he preferred to play with Ole over you?

 

[Lay]

Ole's tenure was the most enjoyable period that we've had since Fergie retired.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Ole had a vastly better goal difference and delivered back to back CL entries. The only thing Erik and LVG have on Ole is some tinpots. CL qualification is worth a lot more.

Bloody hell. I have no words.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Ole's tenure was the most enjoyable period that we've had since Fergie retired.

Exactly, between all the managers we had post Fergie, Ole seemed to be the one, because we've played some nice football, scored lots of goals and players like Rashford, Bruno, Martial, Shaw and Pogba looked like the best versions of themselves under him.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Exactly, between all the managers we had post Fergie, Ole seemed to be the one, because we've played some nice football, scored lots of goals and players like Rashford, Bruno, Martial, Shaw and Pogba looked like the best versions of themselves under him.

I'd add Lindelof, Fred and Greenwood to that list

 

[CallyRed]

Bloody hell. I have no words.

They should replace trophy cabinets with a notice board.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Anyone having literally anything bad to say about Ole obviously started supporting United after he retired.

The guy will always be an absolute legend of this club.

I wish him all the best in Besiktas, great start for him.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Anyone having literally anything bad to say about Ole obviously started supporting United after he retired.

The guy will always be an absolute legend of this club.

I wish him all the best in Besiktas, great start for him.

I think there is a lot of revisionism here just because of the ETH era and now the poor start under Amorim. OIe was woefully under-qualified to coach United, and should never have got the permanent role. It was classic Woodward to appoint him after the lucky PSG win and things quickly went downhill in the following games. He inherited some top players and gave them more freedom, a relief after the Mourinho defensive and toxic culture. His signings were also poor, only Bruno was a clear success. Most would agree Maguire was not worth the money and not the basis for a top team, Varane just us being ridden by RM again, AWB lacked the skills for a top team despite us apparently reviewing 1000 full backs, then there is Sancho despite multiple character red flags and finally worst of all Ronaldo. It was reported Carrick and McKenna were pushing for a much more expansive style and Ole refused. He is not a top level coach and had never shown anything. Nice guy sure, great United player. But lets leave it there. It does though show that a good motivator can go a long way with a solid squad, which raises a few questions for Amorim.

 

[D. Grayson]

Anyone having literally anything bad to say about Ole obviously started supporting United after he retired.

The guy will always be an absolute legend of this club.

I wish him all the best in Besiktas, great start for him.

The goal he scored against Charlton in 2006 is still one of my happiest football memories.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Don't see what the money has to do with it, and you'd be pretty crazy to do it for free. Become the most criticized man in England, and have random strangers on the internet calling you a disaster and whatnot, all while not even earning enough to eat? I know I'd pass

Besides, I agree with you that we're lacking a little bit of humanness these days

I would genuinely manage us for free, I think most fans without a hope of being a football manager would? I'd be turfed out within days after getting found out, but it would be the best days of my life.

 

[D. Grayson]

I would genuinely manage us for free, I think most fans without a hope of being a football manager would? I'd be turfed out within days after getting found out, but it would be the best days of my life.

There is this asinine perception that footballers and managers lucked into their positions, Ole got paid to manage the club because he had a skill with a value attached to said skill set, not because he was some make-a-whish appointment.

 

[tomaldinho1]

There is this asinine perception that footballers and managers lucked into their positions, Ole got paid to manage the club because he had a skill with a value attached to said skill set, not because he was some make-a-whish appointment.

I'm unsure how you've taken that from the clearly ridiculous scenario of someone from the caf being appointed United manager?

Ironically, Ole did not have the background you would expect United to be recruiting from (Molde and Cardiff) and many managers do get a lot of luck i.e. Rooney, Lampard, Ole, Arteta, Steven Taylor etc. some work out, most don't.

 

[sugar_kane]

I honestly feel like a lot of the ridicule targeted his way from rival fans and pundits was rooted in their discomfort towards our happiness at having a club legend in charge who was doing reasonably well.

It was completely disproportionate and wasn't limited to when results were going badly. You had pricks like Ronay and Wilson on the Guardian constantly dismissing us as a nostalgia act etc. I think that criticism colours the perception of his time here even now.

Things were dreadful by the end, but that's literally the case for every manager who gets sacked. There are very few who walk away when things are good.

 

[D. Grayson]

I'm unsure how you've taken that from the clearly ridiculous scenario of someone from the caf being appointed United manager?

Ironically, Ole did not have the background you would expect United to be recruiting from (Molde and Cardiff) and many managers do get a lot of luck i.e. Rooney, Lampard, Ole, Arteta, Steven Taylor etc. some work out, most don't.

The countless players are stealing a living posts may have led me to take your post at face value. My bad.

All of these management appointments were built on their playing careers and the reputations they earned during those careers.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The countless players are stealing a living posts may have led me to take your post at face value. My bad.

All of these management appointments were built on their playing careers and the reputations they earned during those careers.

All good.

Yes as players, not as coaches though. It is nice to see Carrick, McKenna still in their jobs after leaving and now Ole will have a chance to build his reputation (Besiktas should be competing in a European comp given their size so maybe it can be a stepping stone for him back into the PL or a top league).

 

[Steffa Barnesa]

Van Gaal wasn't all bad - there was that stretch of 4 or 5 games towards the end of his first season when we beat City, Spurs, and Liverpool at Anfield that still ranks as the best football I've seen from us post-SAF. Certianly the best performance at Anfield for many a year, including the Ferguson years. Thought and hoped things had clicked, but we never seemed to play that well again that season or the next.

 

[hellhunter]

Van Gaal wasn't all bad - there was that stretch of 4 or 5 games towards the end of his first season when we beat City, Spurs, and Liverpool at Anfield that still ranks as the best football I've seen from us post-SAF. Certianly the best performance at Anfield for many a year, including the Ferguson years. Thought and hoped things had clicked, but we never seemed to play that well again that season or the next.

Fellaini was unplayable those few matches

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Anyone having literally anything bad to say about Ole obviously started supporting United after he retired.

The guy will always be an absolute legend of this club.

I wish him all the best in Besiktas, great start for him.

You got me there - I started supporting us in 2010 even though by then I was 11.

Although he was a great player for us, I just can’t rank him that high as a manager because he failed to win a single trophy when he was our manager. And yes, winning the FA Cup is way better than a random 3rd place finish. Finishing 3rd is good, but still doesn’t mean much if you don’t also bag a trophy. It’s why I don’t remember 2011-12 that fondly.

Now do I have any ill will towards Ole? Absolutely not. We did play some great football and have some great moments under him. He still choked it though in the games that mattered. He should have gone after the Europa League final - and, bear in mind, we were only in the Europa League final because we choked an easy Champion’s League group. We need one point from the last three games, and got none.

 

[TheGame]

Anyone having literally anything bad to say about Ole obviously started supporting United after he retired.

The guy will always be an absolute legend of this club.

I wish him all the best in Besiktas, great start for him.

Here Here!

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Anyone having literally anything bad to say about Ole obviously started supporting United after he retired.

The guy will always be an absolute legend of this club.

I wish him all the best in Besiktas, great start for him.

It makes even less sense when people wish Ruud well at Leicester or Carrick at Middlesbrough while this thread was tagged a sack watch as soon as Ole got the Besiktas job.

 

[MadDogg]

You are one of those who just can't separate Solskjaer player and Solskjaer manager.
Solskjaer player is United legend. Solskjaer manager was absolute disaster. Tried his heart our for this club? Give me a break with that shit. Guy refused to resign just to get his millions. By far our worst manager in post Fergie era and you lose your shit about him.

Ole literally has the second best points per game from all our post Fergie managers (Mourinho the only one better). Is the only manager who managed back-to-back top four finishes. Has the highest scoring league season out of all our managers (and the third highest). Played the most fun and exciting football out of all our managers.

He wasn't good enough, but he's not even close to being the worst.

 

[matsdf]

Bloody hell. I have no words.

Obviously not, it's true.

 

[Matriac]

Bloody hell. I have no words.

It's "worth more" because it's actually worth a lot more for the club. The difference between Europa League and Champions League is massive. Yeah you get £2m for winning the FA Cup and guaranteed entry to EL, but if you don't finish top4 you lose out on a lot of money.

EL is €4.3m for qualifying and €450k per win (€150k for draw) in group stages.

CL is €18.6m for qualifying and €2.1m per win (€700k for draw) in group stages.

Then you have a similar wide gap if you qualify for knockout etc. There's also more money in a system they call Value Pillar which I won't try to explain here.

See this article for more info:
https://www.eurosport.com/football/...inners-final-win-draw_sto20037553/story.shtml

If we consistently finished top4 then we'd have an easier time with PSR, more money for buying players, and maybe we wouldn't have gone so far in the cost-cutting exercises recently.

Winning domestic cups is great for the trophy cabinet and the feeling on the day yes, but much better as a bonus when your team is doing well in the league.

According to the linked site below we have made €8.96m from Europa so far this year.

City €27.52m
Villa €36.42m
Arsenal €41.17m
pool €45.22m

A gap that will only get bigger as some (all?) of them go into the knockout rounds.

https://www.football-coefficient.eu/money/#money-club

This is why many say they prefer top4 over domestic trophies, it's better for the longterm for the club. We're falling behind our competitors if we don't finish top4. Thus it would be better for the club's future if the club had a manager that finished top4 every season, even if they hadn't won a trophy yet.

Edit: This is very napkin math, but unless I'm way off here, the difference in prize money (so far) between us and pool makes it so they could technically sign another 2x €60m players on 5 year £100k contracts and still be compliant with PSR (ofc they need to then make the same next year to keep covering it).

 

[PSV]

Bloody hell. I have no words.

Dont worry, that does usually happen when you know something is true.

 

[Lay]

Top 4 is worth more in a lot of ways. You don't lose sponsorship money if you fail to win the FA cup but you do if you fail to finish in the top 4.

However valuing trophies higher should naturally be 'worth' more.

That said, I still enjoyed Ole's seasons a whole lot more. The ETH era has made me apathetic towards the club but least Ole made me feel fuzzy inside

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Dont worry, that does usually happen when you know something is true.

The FA Cup is not a tinpot trophy and winning trophies is way better than finishing top four, which in the long run counted for feck all. It’s different with teams like Arsenal and Liverpool.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Obviously not, it's true.

Dont worry, that does usually happen when you know something is true.

How that trophy looks? It is a note with golden letters? Or just you get a picture of league table in fancy frame? Where it stands in cabinet; between FA cup trophy and Champions league trophy?

You must correct his (and United) wiki page.
Major honours: 2 time top 4 finisher.

 

[Red in STL]

Ole had a vastly better goal difference and delivered back to back CL entries. The only thing Erik and LVG have on Ole is some tinpots. CL qualification is worth a lot more.

You are the epitome of a 'modern football fan' - I bet you're a fan of the super league because it would earn more money

The whole point of football is to try and win the competions you enter, otherwise what's the point of entering them if your sole aim is to qualify for the CL

I bet you'd be cheering for these 'tinpots' if winning meant CL qualification

 

[RedSky]

Ole literally has the second best points per game from all our post Fergie managers (Mourinho the only one better). Is the only manager who managed back-to-back top four finishes. Has the highest scoring league season out of all our managers (and the third highest). Played the most fun and exciting football out of all our managers.

He wasn't good enough, but he's not even close to being the worst.

Exactly this. We actually went through long periods where we actually looked highly competent too with runs of unbeaten form. Certainly the best I felt as a United fan post Sir Alex.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

You are the epitome of a 'modern football fan' - I bet you're a fan of the super league because it would earn more money

The whole point of football is to try and win the competions you enter, otherwise what's the point of entering them if your sole aim is to qualify for the CL

I bet you'd be cheering for these 'tinpots' if winning meant CL qualification

Spot on.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Ole > Mourinho 100%

38 league game seasons show your real level much more accurately than winning some cups. Those who called Ole a loser for saying this got exactly what they deserved with ten Hag. 0 progression, regression actually, but we won 2 domestic cups I guess

Mourinho also got a piss easy Europa run and he almost managed to mess it up vs Celta Vigo in the semis. Ten Hag convincingly beating La Liga champions Barcelona in 2023 is more impressive than Mourinho's whole Europa League run in 2017. We entered every tie as overwhelming favourites and we almost didn't make the final. Feyenoord, Luhansk, Fenerbahce, Saint-Etienne, Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta Vigo, Ajax. It's a joke how much credit is given to him for this run.

The same goes for the EFL Cup and Community Shield. Leicester in the CS. Northampton, City's C team at home, West Ham, Hull, and Southampton in the EFL Cup. The first time he met an actually strong opponent in the cups was Chelsea in the FA Cup QFs and we lost immediately.

6th place finish in the PL with players like Pogba, Mata, Ibrahimovic, Martial, Rashford, etc.

The only good season under Jose was his second season. However, since the Ole haters always bring up the Villarreal game and all those semi-final exits, I have to mention how pathetic the loss to Sevilla was in the round of 16 in the CL. Also, we lost an FA Cup final to Chelsea.

And then in his third season, it all came crashing down much like Ole in his third full season.

Our 20/21 team is also the strongest side we've had since Ferguson retired. Stronger than 17/18 and 22/23, and played a more entertaining, more enjoyable, and more sustainable brand of football too.

Ole was also by far the best man-manager out of all of them. Bums like Bailly and Rojo crying to the media because they were never anywhere near good enough to displace Maguire doesn't change that.

This is serious cultist shit.
So;
1) Finishing 6th and winning 3 trophies (or two and a half) which also secured CL football is not better than just finishing in top 4? This must be biggest cultist shit ever said on this forum.
2) Counting points? Jose's 6th place was with 69 points, Ole's 3rd place (secured in last game of the season) was with 66 points.
3) Mourinho's second place was with more points than Ole, better GD and with only 28 goals conceded. Ole's second place was better in only goals scored.
4) I love how people "forget" and forgive Solskjaer's first season when he finished 6th. Because he had "only" 6 months to do something.
5) Man management? Ole introduced easy life because of which we are paying the price even today. One training per day and all smiles and vibes. Excellent man management.

In history of PL there is no manager who was bigger disaster for his club than FCM was for us.

 

[anant]

Ole literally has the second best points per game from all our post Fergie managers (Mourinho the only one better). Is the only manager who managed back-to-back top four finishes. Has the highest scoring league season out of all our managers (and the third highest). Played the most fun and exciting football out of all our managers.

He wasn't good enough, but he's not even close to being the worst.

He also happens to have the highest GD/game among literally all our managers and 3rd highest GF/game (highest post Sir Matt)

 

[Red in STL]

Ole > Mourinho 100%

38 league game seasons show your real level much more accurately than winning some cups. Those who called Ole a loser for saying this got exactly what they deserved with ten Hag. 0 progression, regression actually, but we won 2 domestic cups I guess

Mourinho also got a piss easy Europa run and he almost managed to mess it up vs Celta Vigo in the semis. Ten Hag convincingly beating La Liga champions Barcelona in 2023 is more impressive than Mourinho's whole Europa League run in 2017. We entered every tie as overwhelming favourites and we almost didn't make the final. Feyenoord, Luhansk, Fenerbahce, Saint-Etienne, Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta Vigo, Ajax. It's a joke how much credit is given to him for this run.

The same goes for the EFL Cup and Community Shield. Leicester in the CS. Northampton, City's C team at home, West Ham, Hull, and Southampton in the EFL Cup. The first time he met an actually strong opponent in the cups was Chelsea in the FA Cup QFs and we lost immediately.

6th place finish in the PL with players like Pogba, Mata, Ibrahimovic, Martial, Rashford, etc.

The only good season under Jose was his second season. However, since the Ole haters always bring up the Villarreal game and all those semi-final exits, I have to mention how pathetic the loss to Sevilla was in the round of 16 in the CL. Also, we lost an FA Cup final to Chelsea.

And then in his third season, it all came crashing down much like Ole in his third full season.

Our 20/21 team is also the strongest side we've had since Ferguson retired. Stronger than 17/18 and 22/23, and played a more entertaining, more enjoyable, and more sustainable brand of football too.

Ole was also by far the best man-manager out of all of them. Bums like Bailly and Rojo crying to the media because they were never anywhere near good enough to displace Maguire doesn't change that.

Who the hell cares which of our previous mangers were better than other previous managers, they are our previous managers for a reason, they weren't up to the job!

 

[jadajos]

You are the epitome of a 'modern football fan' - I bet you're a fan of the super league because it would earn more money

The whole point of football is to try and win the competions you enter, otherwise what's the point of entering them if your sole aim is to qualify for the CL

I bet you'd be cheering for these 'tinpots' if winning meant CL qualification

Pretty elitist view. Do you think there's no point in cheering for Brighton, Wolves or Palace then? They certainly play/watch each game aiming/hoping for a win. But in regards to the full season, there's plenty who's goals are much lower than winning the competitions. That goes double for fans - 90% of the teams don't really ever win trophies. While footballers are highly ambitious by profession, fans watch to be entertained. I still remember the win of TSV Vestenbergsgreuth against Bayern in the mid 90s. Did they go on to win the competition? Certainly not, but I still remember their win 30 years ago, though couldn't tell you who actually went on to win the cup back then.