Ole Gunnar Solskjær | Beşiktaş J.K.

jadajos said:
Pretty elitist view. Do you think there's no point in cheering for Brighton, Wolves or Palace then? They certainly play/watch each game aiming/hoping for a win. But in regards to the full season, there's plenty who's goals are much lower than winning the competitions. That goes double for fans - 90% of the teams don't really ever win trophies. While footballers are highly ambitious by profession, fans watch to be entertained. I still remember the win of TSV Vestenbergsgreuth against Bayern in the mid 90s. Did they go on to win the competition? Certainly not, but I still remember their win 30 years ago, though couldn't tell you who actually went on to win the cup back then.
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That's your take on what I said??

Ask any Spurs or Newcastle fan whether they would rather win the league cup or the FA cup or finish 4th and qualify for the CL

Brighton and Palace played us in FA Cup finals and almost won

It's not elitist to prefer to win a trophy rather than win nothing and finish 4th
 
Red in STL said:
That's your take on what I said??

Ask any Spurs or Newcastle fan whether they would rather win the league cup or the FA cup or finish 4th and qualify for the CL

Brighton and Palace played us in FA Cup finals and almost won

It's not elitist to prefer to win a trophy rather than win nothing and finish 4th
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For Manchester United, I'd take a trophyless 4th every time over crap football, 8th and a domestic cup. Every time!
Spurs (haven't won a single trophy in 17 years) and Newcastle (hasn't won a domestic trophy since 1953) will probably never win the league (again) og CL so a Cup every now and then has more value.

For a big club like us being among the top 3-4 teams in the league is much more important than winning a "small" cup trophy.
 
troylocker said:
For Manchester United, I'd take a trophyless 4th every time over crap football, 8th and a domestic cup. Every time!
Spurs (haven't won a single trophy in 17 years) and Newcastle (hasn't won a domestic trophy since 1953) will probably never win the league (again) og CL so a Cup every now and then has more value.

For a big club like us being among the top 3-4 teams in the league is much more important than winning a "small" cup trophy.
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And I you consider I have an elitist view after writing this!

Winning 'small' cups doesn't go hand in hand with finishing 8th or playing shite football, it's not an either or situation
 
2 man midfield said:
Who’s to say it goes south like that again? We were progressing nicely until Ronaldo, Sancho and playing Maguire on the halfway line.
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Common sense. We were not progressing nicely and Ole's failure cannot be blamed on Ronaldo.
 
Fugeeface said:
Common sense. We were not progressing nicely and Ole's failure cannot be blamed on Ronaldo.
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I wouldn't blame Ronaldo, but I see his signing as a symptom of Ole's problems at the time. While he was getting good results it was obvious that United still needed to improve and change to really challenge for the title. And the signings for that season didn't match each other which lead to a disaster season.

Ole lacked the vision and/or decisiveness to go that next step.
 
You guys are fecking mental.

20/21 we lost a grand total of 6 PL Games, 3 of which were in the first 7 PL Games of the season. We went on several runs of unbeaten form including a 12 PL unbeaten run and a 13 PL unbeaten run. We reached the Semis of the EFL Cup losing to City. We got to the final of the Europa League, losing to Villarreal on pens. and lost to Leicester in the quarters of the FA Cup (beating Liverpool in the Fourth round). We finished 2nd in the PL.

We scored 73 PL goals that season, this highest tally we've managed since Sir Alex retired.

It was a decent season and we certainly were heading the right direction. The Ronaldo Transfer window was a disaster in hindsight.
 
RedSky said:
You guys are fecking mental.

20/21 we lost a grand total of 6 PL Games, 3 of which were in the first 7 PL Games of the season. We went on several runs of unbeaten form including a 12 PL unbeaten run and a 13 PL unbeaten run. We reached the Semis of the EFL Cup losing to City. We got to the final of the Europa League, losing to Villarreal on pens. and lost to Leicester in the quarters of the FA Cup (beating Liverpool in the Fourth round). We finished 2nd in the PL.

We scored 73 PL goals that season, this highest tally we've managed since Sir Alex retired.

It was a decent season and we certainly were heading the right direction. The Ronaldo Transfer window was a disaster in hindsight.
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Why was he fired? Was it undeserved?
 
RedSky said:
You guys are fecking mental.

20/21 we lost a grand total of 6 PL Games, 3 of which were in the first 7 PL Games of the season. We went on several runs of unbeaten form including a 12 PL unbeaten run and a 13 PL unbeaten run. We reached the Semis of the EFL Cup losing to City. We got to the final of the Europa League, losing to Villarreal on pens. and lost to Leicester in the quarters of the FA Cup (beating Liverpool in the Fourth round). We finished 2nd in the PL.

We scored 73 PL goals that season, this highest tally we've managed since Sir Alex retired.

It was a decent season and we certainly were heading the right direction. The Ronaldo Transfer window was a disaster in hindsight.
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Should've finished 4th on xPTS (yeah many don't care for those kind of stats, I know).

Think it's easy to put it all on Ronaldo signing. The problem is he didn't sign a defensive midfielder. I remember in August that year we somehow beat Wolves 1-0 away from home and it should've been them beating us with couple of goals. Even in that 20/21 season we were relying on 2nd half comebacks and no fans in stadium suited us and helped our away form significantly. Worrying signs showed against Roma in Europa semi-final and also at home vs Liverpool where we lost 4-2. Then losing in Europa League final was imo perfect moment to replace Ole, but we continued with him and (no surprise) sacked him 6 months later. Same happened with van Gaal, Mourinho and you could say even ten Hag (in hindsight).
 
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golden_blunder said:
He’s already given you the reason. It went pearshaped after trying to integrate Ronaldo etc
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That was the main problem, United had to change the way they played to accomodate him and that was disastrous for the team as a whole, pressing went out of the window for starters
 
Red in STL said:
That was the main problem, United had to change the way they played to accomodate him and that was disastrous for the team as a whole, pressing went out of the window for starters
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Along with Sancho being a complete dud we basically brought in two new Forwards that completely disrupted the balance of Martial/Rashford and Greenwood. Don't get me wrong, I think we needed those reinforcements but we unfortunately got the signings wrong and it actually hampered us rather than aided.
 
Fugeeface said:
This line of revisionist thinking is disturbing.
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It's not revisionist, United had to change the way they played to accomodate Ronaldo, it clearly set the team back though it's not the only reason why OSG failed, in hindsight bringing back Ronaldo was huge mistake
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Agree. The Ronaldo excuse is just for those that can’t accept he just wasn’t good enough.
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Things crashed when Ronaldo arrived the theatre. The problem was also that Ole was to soft against the instigators, example Bailly, and had too much faith in the United system regarding transfers. He should have taken more control!

In retrospect I think Ole in periods overachieved considering the players he had to his disposal, and I think it was because Ole introduced world class counterattacking football.

When the environment persuaded Ole to emphasise possession and tiki-taka football, with Ronaldo as centre of gravity, it all collapsed, because the players weren’t good enough.

I think Ronaldo with his status and requirements for standard developed an environment with players who felt bad coping. At the same time Premier league is no place for teams with defensive stowaways like Ronaldo. That’s why it all collapsed - end of September.

The funny thing is that Ole never was good enough to become United manager, but ETH and Amorim track record was/is never questioned even though their track record isn’t much to talk about - only a simple glimpse of a difference. It’s a lot of prejudice on this forum.
 
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RedSky said:
Along with Sancho being a complete dud we basically brought in two new Forwards that completely disrupted the balance of Martial/Rashford and Greenwood. Don't get me wrong, I think we needed those reinforcements but we unfortunately got the signings wrong and it actually hampered us rather than aided.
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To be fair, Sancho wasn't a complete dud under Ole. Ole really restricted his minutes and he didn't get much of a consistent look in - he should have just played him from the start and given him the chance to settle on the pitch
 
ItDoesntEvenMata said:
To be fair, Sancho wasn't a complete dud under Ole. Ole really restricted his minutes and he didn't get much of a consistent look in - he should have just played him from the start and given him the chance to settle on the pitch
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And that became difficult as Ronaldo also arrived at the same time and plans had to be changed for him instead for Sancho. There is no guarantee that things would have went better without Ronaldo, but his arrival definitely didn't help in a lot of ways.
 
His team is out of Europa League after losing to Twente tonight. Had he won this game they'd have progressed to play-off round but Twente basically took their place (23rd) in the table with the win in this do-or-die game for both teams and they go through. Beşiktaş finished in 28th place.

He still relies on counter attacks too much. Don't think he'll last long there given the impatience of Turkish football fans.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Twente had 22 shots. Yikes.

He must have doing his best LvG impression.
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LvG's team was solid defensively. Dominated possession too. The problem was that they could only pass the ball sideways and looked like headless chickens when they were less than 30 yards from the opponent's goal.

This is basically the opposite from Ole who had us playing end-to-end and try to outscore/outfight the opponent. It was fairly chaotic, but at least it was fun and lead to a lot of goals. And as Moyes, LvG, Rangnick, Ten Hag and to a lesser degree Mourinho and Amorim (needs more time of course) have proved: playing good or even just decent attacking football in this circus of a club is not easy!

Whatever you think about his management he deserves some credit for that.
 
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Scandi Red said:
LvG's team was solid defensively. Dominated possession too. The problem was that they could only pass the ball sideways and looked like headless chickens when they were less than 30 yards from the opponent's goal.

This is basically the opposite from Ole who had us playing end-to-end and try to outscore/outfight the opponent. It was fairly chaotic, but at least it was fun and lead to a lot of goals. And as Moyes, LvG, Rangnick, Ten Hag and to a lesser degree Mourinho and Amorim (needs more time of course) have proved: playing good or even just decent attacking football in this circus of a club is not easy!

Whatever you think about his management he deserves some credit for that.
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Haha, I was meant to say best ETH impression, hence conceding the sheer amount of shots. That's a sign I shouldn't be posting after a full morning of Teams calls.
 
I miss Ole. His team was the last time we were actually any fun to watch. Really took the ‘we’ll score one more than you’ ethos and ran with it. Hope he does well at Besiktas.
 
I like Ole and would even say his football with us looking at the other dross served was better but we are looking at who was least shit and Ole probably wins that battle. I do find it funny with some Ole revisionism here though. We were entertaining in some games but we were also boring in many. Tactically we were outdone in important games. There is a reason he couldn't win any trophy.

I wish him the best. There is a manager there and I am not sure if Besiktas is the place where he will excel but whatever.
 
Got his first league win yesterday.

Wonder what he thinks about how badly things have gone since he left. From regular top 4 level, to this.
 
Red in STL said:
It's not revisionist, United had to change the way they played to accomodate Ronaldo, it clearly set the team back though it's not the only reason why OSG failed, in hindsight bringing back Ronaldo was huge mistake
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Ronaldo ran more than Martial. Who he effectively replaced. So not sure why the whole team had to change playing style to accommodate him.
 
Marwood said:
Ronaldo ran more than Martial. Who he effectively replaced. So not sure why the whole team had to change playing style to accommodate him.
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It wasn't so much that I don't think. Ronaldos arrival coincided with an effort to change the playing style to a more possession based and higher pressing system. On the pitch Ronaldos presence probably didn't help with that.

Off the pitch apparently his personality and views led to a downturn in morale.
 
stevoc said:
It wasn't so much that I don't think. Ronaldos arrival coincided with an effort to change the playing style to a more possession based and higher pressing system. On the pitch Ronaldos presence probably didn't help with that.

Off the pitch apparently his personality and views led to a downturn in morale.
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If that was the case the team as a whole had a problem with switching to that style. Two CM's who aren't great on the ball being the main problem when become possession based team.

Ole just didn't value enough players who looked after the ball. Combined with a lack of pace at the back.

Ronaldo neither here nor there. The alternative was Martial who ran even less or banking on Cavani being fit and available(a lottery).
 
Marwood said:
If that was the case the team as a whole had a problem with switching to that style. Two CM's who aren't great on the ball being the main problem when become possession based team.

Ole just didn't value enough players who looked after the ball. Combined with a lack of pace at the back.

Ronaldo neither here nor there. The alternative was Martial who ran even less or banking on Cavani being fit and available(a lottery).
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His biggest problem was off the pitch.

Players stagnanted and fitness levels dropped as his stint continued. We went from outrunning opponents early in his caretaker period to barely moving when he got sacked.

No player improved under him and apart from Greenwood, he didn’t bring in any academy player into the starting eleven.

One of the worst managerial stint in our history in terms of impact. We wasted a few years of our academy players who should have played a bigger role at the club but instead we wasted their career with us.
 
elmo said:
His biggest problem was off the pitch.

Players stagnanted and fitness levels dropped as his stint continued. We went from outrunning opponents early in his caretaker period to barely moving when he got sacked.

No player improved under him and apart from Greenwood, he didn’t bring in any academy player into the starting eleven.

One of the worst managerial stint in our history in terms of impact. We wasted a few years of our academy players who should have played a bigger role at the club but instead we wasted their career with us.
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Didn't Martial and Rashford have their best season under him? As did Bruno.

I also feel like any Manchester United manager has to bring in 5 academy players every season to be acknowledged as someone who gives youth a chance.

He brought Greenwood in. Gave chances to Williams and Chong. He bought Amad.

You can't force youth players into the team if the talent isn't there. Who are all the young players he neglected who've gone on to great things? There aren't any.
 
Marwood said:
Didn't Martial and Rashford have their best season under him? As did Bruno.

I also feel like any Manchester United manager has to bring in 5 academy players every season to be acknowledged as someone who gives youth a chance.

He brought Greenwood in. Gave chances to Williams and Chong. He bought Amad.

You can't force youth players into the team if the talent isn't there. Who are all the young players he neglected who've gone on to great things? There aren't any.
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And he didn’t develop any of them. Their best seasons came early in Ole’s stint and they stagnanted as time went on.

Rashford and Martial were overplayed and look at them now. One is playing in Greece while the other is pretending to be a footballer.
 
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