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Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Knowing how to strategize, train, man manage and win in 2020 is significantly more important than 'knowing the club' and regurgitating sentimental platitudes every other day.
You could also spin it the other way: RvP doesn't know Ole and might mistake his demeanour in public for softness in some ways.
I, for one, prefer to just not make hard generalisations based off stuff like this.
Papers i mean.
The aim of formation and tactics is to win, if the trend is 3 men midfiels majority, why do things the hard ways with 2 men midfield system?
You use the formation that can potentially made it easier to beat your opponent the majority of the time. Saf 442 works in the 90s, even then he starts to shift to 3 men midfield late in his career.
You must be extremely extraordinary to go against the masses and success, something we are far from capable.
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Intelligent man... anyone is deemed intelligent these days. Anyone spouts some tactical insight called intelligent.
Ole, neville, i think on the contrary they're not intelligent at all. You'd think an apprentice to the art of football for 20 years under the best manager would learn and fare better.
Don't agree with this. I think he genuinely wants to support Ole.
Also Rooney played with Ole before, but he has said it that he thinks that we should have hired Poch over Ole.
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What the feck do you expect him to say when his mate is in the job? When someone is failing miserably at the job of course you will come up with BS like "I know what I am doing" or "I am building for the future"
If he's saying the expected then dont expect people to take him seriously... what do you expect
I think that’s a bit tad harsh. Hundreds of players played under Fergie only like two or three would have had semi decent management careers. Not all of them are dumb. Most of them are probably intelligent but management isn’t suited for everyone.
You probably can say the same for players who played under Wenger or Pep. Small percentage of them will be decent managers.
Ole isn’t stupid. He’s just not made out to be a manager.
Relatives. Compared to coach potatoes off course they're intelligent.
But compared to actual peers with similar flight time should be the benchmark.
I still think they (co92, ole, fletcher, apart from beckham whose actually quite established as a businessman) actually arent very intelligent.
Who in their intelligent mind thinks ole isnt a car wreck and you'll need 5 years to see progeess in football. It's just an arse covering buddy saving statement.
Ole wont last 5 years they can claim he's not given time, if somehow he managed to last 5 years they'll bleat we told you so. They don't love the club, any real legends who loved the club would advise ole to step down.
We won it 1-0!!
You'd use Beckham's business credentials to set him apart as intelligent? He was a tremendous footballer and had model looks to boot and an incredible brand, which meant he was an easy global sell. To use his business success as a yardstick to establish that he's more intelligent because Ole isn't a unicorn who magically turns a failing behemoth around seems to me to be a crazy leap of logic. Marketing in football is far more of a simple slam-dunk than turning United around is.
Nobody says anything about turning the tanker around. Just keep it running per ussual. As in managed it.
You think what bekcham did and finally owning a franchise of soccer team in america less difficult than managing a football club?
Are you shitting me? Yes I do. fecking Mourinho and Van Gaal failed at it... You reckon Becks' business acumen is stronger than their managerial acumen?
Edit: interesting... I write fecking with a large f, but when the autocorrect makes it fecking it gives it a small f. Surprised I'd not noticed this before
To all Ole out people, I have a serious question to ask? Realistically, what is the bare minimum that Ole would have to achieve by the end of the season for you to change your mind and support our manager?
Are you shitting me? Yes I do. fecking Mourinho and Van Gaal failed at it... You reckon Becks' business acumen is stronger than their managerial acumen?
Edit: interesting... I write fecking with a large f, but when the autocorrect makes it fecking it gives it a small f. Surprised I'd not noticed this before
Does mourinho fails? 2nd and 2 trophies is never a fail in my eyes. Considering everything behind the screen.
If that's failure then what do we call this ole shenagigans?
I dont think ole is intelligent at all for what it's worth. We wont be in this clueless shambless if he has any sort of coherent tactics. Go out there and have fun lads type of guy
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Magnus Haglund > Ole. No doubt about it.Are you shitting me? Yes I do. fecking Mourinho and Van Gaal failed at it... You reckon Becks' business acumen is stronger than their managerial acumen?
Edit: interesting... I write fecking with a large f, but when the autocorrect makes it fecking it gives it a small f. Surprised I'd not noticed this before
We did come 6th Mourinho's first season.
Sentiment and nostalgia gave us Moyes and now this. Feels like a sure fire way to end up like AC Milan, if we're not there already.
So did ole.
Either you're being hyperbolic or you have a seriously simplistic view of intelligence. Or even both. I hope it's just the former.
We're in 5th and the season's not over yet. Unless you're deliberately trying to be disingenuous, in which case no point in continuing this.
Besides, doesn't that mean someone can come 6th and still not be a failure later on, according to you?
Ole is not doing a good job. If he wants to be the motivator only, then he needs competent coaches to drill patterns of play into his players. He may have to fire the entire coaching team below him and bring another set in. If he has already been personally coaching and the team is still in such a raw state, then he should fire himself.
In what way he's showing his intelligence?
Jose 1st : 6th + Europa
Ole 1st : 6th
Jose 2nd : 2nd + Fa Finalist
Ole 2nd : 5th (so far)
So, let's see... and yes I know he took the team 1/3 of a season, let's see where he ends up.
Doesn't matter in the slightest with the owners we have. Might as well give Ole a few years more to play manager. At least in the end we'll have a clear proof of his abilities and the "give him 7 years like SAF" thing might stop.
Well since you know you're being disingenuous let's be more accurate. Ole caretaker form had us 2nd overall.
In any case, I'm merely pointing out that I think Jose did a poor job, not that I think Ole's doing a great one. There's nothing in their first seasons results-wise yet, so theoretically you shouldn't judge them too differently at this point. Unless you're partial to Jose of course.
Surely this is sarcasm?
We can't afford to do that.
And while our owners are largely terrible, a competent manager can still achieve some levels of success provided he is backed.
I'm not being disingenous, Pull any sort of standard you want.
trophies, coefficient, money / pts, league table, etc.
Use that one standard to judge both managers, and tell me how it goes.
PS : Caretaker form??? what the hell is that?
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Good heavens. Now people are comparing Ole's first few weeks to the disaster months of Jose? Ole is not going to come even close to what Jose has won. Jose was known as an upcoming coach and tactician even when he was the translator for LVG and assistant for Sir Bobby.
That's the form excluding Mourinho's disastrous collapse.
Mourinho came 6th in his first season. Ole is currently 5th in his first season. That's what I'm saying. And I think both did/ are doing a suboptimal job, whereas you think one is already clearly better than the other. I disagree, they're both poor.
Conviniently discounted the Europa Cup? Granted it isn't the European cup, but come on
If Ole is at 6th and if he wins the EL then he has equalled Jose. If he doesn't then it is pointless. In Jose's first year there was progress and we did play well a lot of games. Jose when he knew it was crunch time decided to forgo the league and went for the EL and he was vindicated. Didn't he win the League Cup too?
Jose's Europa League run was piss easy.
This is what Sky1981 said. I simply pointed out that Mourinho came 6th his first season, hence no sense in comparing his 2nd season to Ole's first. However, the guy started to try and argue disingenuously, which I'm not interested in.
All to say I'm not even comparing them, he was. Until I pointed out the flaw which he didn't want to admit.
Caretaker form is the "new manager bounce" which people defending Ole continuously fall back upon. We are supposed to include that in his overall record to make his percentages more palatable. It's like mixing a bottle of wine with a tank full of excrement hoping that the excrement will somehow taste like wine.
Originally, I said " you can call Jose tenure a failure, but if you call him that you'd have to call Ole failure as well, because if you pull one standard, Jose would still better Ole"
And I agree, Jose failed and Ole is currently failing.
Fair enough
Hey, I'm not the one who tried to say Ole came 6th his first season.
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