If we get into the CL next year, either by top 4 or by EL i would say its been a good season. Also Joses first season was alright, we did not have as many ups and downs as we have had this year, but i seem to remember we had an awful lot of drawn games, especially at OT
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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If we get into the CL next year, either by top 4 or by EL i would say its been a good season. Also Joses first season was alright, we did not have as many ups and downs as we have had this year, but i seem to remember we had an awful lot of drawn games, especially at OT
What do you expect them to do? They're so far down the rabbit hole. He's the worst manager in the league (and that encompasses leadership, management and tactical intelligence.) Daniel Farrke is potentially going to Dortmund from Norwich at some point. David Wagner has taken Shalke to 5th in the table and level on points with Dortmund (the turnaround is even shocking the club). These managers manage(d) newly promoted sides (the hardest task to stay up that first year) in the EPL. But you could see their levels of coaching, the patterns of play, their football intellect. At a certain threshold, quality dictates results. OGS is League 1 level. He's going nowhere in a top league as a manager after this.
I am one of them, I thought that sooner or later we would start getting better results against the weaker teams, after all, we did manage to get good results against the stronger teams. It never crossed my mind it could turn the other way, that instead of doing better against easier opponents, we start doing worse against the stronger ones. I guess it's that hope that never leaves you?
What now though? Arsenal beat and dominated us, City just walked over us and around the corner Liverpool awaits and then City again. We lose those two, it's clear we've been exposed, our counter football won't work as easily anymore and we certainly struggle against deep defences, what then?
What now though? Arsenal beat and dominated us, City just walked over us and around the corner Liverpool awaits and then City again. We lose those two, it's clear we've been exposed, our counter football won't work as easily anymore and we certainly struggle against deep defences, what then?
To me Ole isn't doing any bad that Jose or Van Gaal. We have young squad and stopped spending crazy money.Now is about making sensible spending.
2 Midfielders and a striker should be the next step or alt least get a loan or free transfer a few players till the end of the season.
2 Midfielders and a striker should be the next step or alt least get a loan or free transfer a few players till the end of the season.
I am not attacking you but I genuinely don't get what people mean by writing "we have young squad". I'd agree that there are some players who lack top level experience perhaps but they are not that young that you can excuse some of garbage performances.
Ya well they won't back anyone to the level required to get some "level of success" so I disagree with the last point.
Realistically managing a team like united you can only go so bad. Even without a manager we can snatch a win here and there. Hence at a club like united the aim is top 4 minimum.
Obviously without a manager is abit hyperbole, but put moyes, hogdson, ole etc with our resources they'll probanly get sixth or seventh at worse
To improve results we need to sack Ole and then re-hire him as caretaker manager to the end of the season.
Of course not, think your missing the point.
Moyes failed, LVG failed, Jose failed. They all tried as well.
Ole isn't the biggest issue - the structure/running of the club is. any manager in the world would struggle with this squad!
Since Ole took over, look at how many dead wood players are here that no longer serve a purpose (Darmian/Young/Jones/Rojo/Lingard/Mata/Matic/Smalling). Add in to that players that dont fit into Ole's plan (Lukaku/Sanchez) and then add wantaway players (Pogba) All that and injuries + integrating untried youth players (Greenwood/Chong/Gomes/Tuanzebe/Garner).
Its a massive job and i think ole deserves some slack during the re-build.
Ole is trying to revamp the entire squad, while changing the mentality. Look at the state of our squad - half the players have had they're best days, while others are simply here for a pay cheque. Very few players on our books actually have any real desire to be a success at man utd. They've had an easy life for years. Ole is trying to change that.
Ole wont give us instant success - neither will any manager. So the bashing is OTT.
Cant wait for us to hire poch and wait for the clowns on here to bash him when he fails - cos until we change as a club we will continue to fail regardless of who the manager is.
You are everything the Glazers want. Happy to accept mediocrity and will just happily watch us drop down to a mid table mediocre team. You should want better.
Neither was Moyes, LVG or Jose.
regardless of who the manager is, its the club thats the problem.
Ole has very little chance of instant success. He needs time and i'd say at least 4 transfer windows
Your mistaking the word "fact" for "excuse"
Name a manager in the world that could get a tune out of Phil Jones/Ashley young and co?
Ole is paying the price for the lack of transfer dealings over the last few years. It's a disgrace that we have a lot of these inept players still on the books.
The issue isnt Ole - its the running of the club. Bring Poch or Allegri in, we'll bash him in a years time when he fails as well if you like.
The club is in turmoil from the owners to the playing squad. Thats not Ole's fault
The most bizarre thing was that Moyes never used him like this at United, instead making a half-arsed attempt to turn him into a “proper” midfielder. It was only after LvG arrived that we saw Fellaini in all his glory
He has no chance of survival unless we get some midfielders in this window. We've got a mediocre attack, practically no midfield and an out of form back line/keeper.
We're in freefall, the club needs to recruit some new players or we'll continue to fail.
Not signing players sends a clear message they're not confident in Ole and if that's the case what's the point? Get a new manager in.
We're in freefall, the club needs to recruit some new players or we'll continue to fail.
Not signing players sends a clear message they're not confident in Ole and if that's the case what's the point? Get a new manager in.
Good one!This was bound to happen. That’s one of the biggest qualities of top managers, they can adjust and exploit the opponent. Weak managers may recognize what went wrong and then overadjust or underadjust, which leads to them being exploited again in other ways. You can’t expect Pep or Klopp to be fooled over and over again with the same tactics.
People here downplay way too much the importance of the manager. I remember watching a video with the tactics explained of the 3-2 comeback against City with Jose in charge. It was like a chess game with human pieces, both managers changing things in game to adjust to what the other was doing. It takes a very good manager to spot these kind of changes the opponent is making, and it takes a great manager to find the perfect adjustment to exploit them.
Well he is in his third one but you all accept that it's impossible to sign players in January but just a few weeks ago Woodward was saying it's hard enough to get one transfer over the line in the summer so when exactly are we going to have four perfect windows that Ole needs? And by that time how old will be some of our more useful players like De Gea, Maguire, Pogba etc won't they need replacing too and won't that give him a new excuse of needing to replace aging players in four more windows?
The reality is that you are never going to get all the solutions in the transfer market if you arent working for City/PSG. Tactics, systems and coaching also plays a major part as does bravery, would Ole if he was in Klopp's play TAA all the way to two CL finals or he would ask fans to postpone expectations until he finds the perfect Right Back?
Who was the manager when Phil Jones got a new contract? The thing with the Ole-in crowd is that you want to credit all the good wins on Ole and all the bad on the players and Woodward. The same players that Ole now needs several windows to replace are the same players who helped earn him the job on a permanent basis then he removed those he considered poison but Phil Jones survived and now we are supposed to believe that Ole never wanted him in the first place?
The reason I'm Ole In for now is because we've spent 6 years hiring different managers and all that has done is deviate farther away from the culture of the club, signing players that don't fit the United ethos, no direction or vision or future planning was at the club for those 6 years etc. Imagine Barca deviates from their culture and stops signing players that fit the Barcelona DNA and at that moment they start losing, getting 6th, 7th in the league the obvious solution is to go back to what made them great in the first place.
Ole has come in now and is trying to do this. For the future of the club this is the most important thing right now. Regaining our lost culture, structure and direction. Going back to what made us great again. It's a much clearer path because it was what made us great for years and the moment we deviated from it, we fell.
I'm still a bit Ole out simply because he is obviously not good enough tactically. But to me the most important thing and what's best for this club is regaining the culture that made us great and that is what Ole is doing or trying to do. You're not going to see this in any other manager, a DOF would have been ideal but we're not getting one.
So We can hire Klopp or Pochettino or Guardiola who are all clearly better than Ole and more likely to improve us tactically. But like I said the most important thing right now is regaining the culture that made us great. Sack Ole and bring in Klopp or whoever, tactics will improve but the club culture will still be lost.
Then again, maybe we need to forget about the Old United and start afresh, but that's not going to happen without a DOF
Ole has come in now and is trying to do this. For the future of the club this is the most important thing right now. Regaining our lost culture, structure and direction. Going back to what made us great again. It's a much clearer path because it was what made us great for years and the moment we deviated from it, we fell.
I'm still a bit Ole out simply because he is obviously not good enough tactically. But to me the most important thing and what's best for this club is regaining the culture that made us great and that is what Ole is doing or trying to do. You're not going to see this in any other manager, a DOF would have been ideal but we're not getting one.
So We can hire Klopp or Pochettino or Guardiola who are all clearly better than Ole and more likely to improve us tactically. But like I said the most important thing right now is regaining the culture that made us great. Sack Ole and bring in Klopp or whoever, tactics will improve but the club culture will still be lost.
Then again, maybe we need to forget about the Old United and start afresh, but that's not going to happen without a DOF
Like ole, I’m sure
What culture is ole instlling?
Somewhere deep inside I knew it would turn and quickly especially after seeing that Ole kept on hammering the same tactic regardless of opposition or their formation but as I wrote, it's that hope that fools you. Even lesser managers with lesser squads will watch the games we looked completely toothless and try to emulate those tactics and since Ole has no other aces up his sleeve it's going to get really tough and fast. Combine that with a very thin squad it can turn sour very quickly.
A small club culture.
Three windows? How much funding did he get in the first? He was not hired yet at that time. Shipped out Fellaini and no one in as I remember. Second window, did clearly not get all he wanted. Third now, will the club back him as needed? I think he needs a lot more backing and United clearly needs a DOF. That would let Ole concentrate more on coaching as well. Bad model for both transfers and coaching with the old setup. Move on to 2020 already..
In all my time on redcafe I think we've reached peak levels of delusion. The idea Ole should be sacked right now is absolutely ridiculous given the squad, the injuries and the improvement in the football. We're playing better football now than at any time since SAF, yet because the results aren't great people are losing their shit. Is he the right man? Time will tell, but he needs just that.
It is quite frankly embarrassing for us all!
It is quite frankly embarrassing for us all!
Are you seriously going to attribute last season to Ole while comparing him to Mourinho when he was pretty much mopping up the mess Mourinho created in the 2nd half of the season? This kind of dishonesty is an insult to anyone with active brain cells.
So we discount his 15 wins in a row then?
You prefer to use this season as his first? By all means.
I agree on that. Pointless using a manager's first part season as many also try doing with Klopp when defending Ole.
Just take Ole's first full season after his first summer into account.
Easier to compare him too then, with Rodgers, Conte et al.
Attributing 6th place to Ole while comparing to Jose is straight up bush league unless you put it in context that Jose himself got 26 points in 17 games and Ole accrued 40 in the remaining 21.
Rio was sitting next to RvP and said he “couldn’t see what the plan was, other than hit it to Martial and hope something would happen”. That’s pretty critical, and from someone who played with Ole.
Not really sure why ole warrants such a 'free pass' due to rebuilding, most incoming managers taking over a new team will invariably have some type of rebuilding to oversee?.
However after over a year in the job can anyone honestly say they have seen an improvement in style of play or performance? Where and when do you draw the line?. Last July ole was banging on about the 'United way' and how he wants his teams to play on the front foot and press high. During this time he signs a less than quick centre back and a very defensive minded full back who looks lost when trying to convert defence into attack. While both of these player's are both decent I don't think they are in anyway suited to a high press. I find ole very hypocritical in his pressers almost as if he is paying lip service to the fans. He ties himself up in knots and contridicts himself regularly. It's all very well shipping out the mercanaries but look at what's left in the cupboard.... Not a lot and as injuries take there toll the cupboard is bare. Ole isn't the main problem but unfortunately he is a significant part of the problem in my humble opinion. And I feel the longer he stays the more his legacy is tarnished.
However after over a year in the job can anyone honestly say they have seen an improvement in style of play or performance? Where and when do you draw the line?. Last July ole was banging on about the 'United way' and how he wants his teams to play on the front foot and press high. During this time he signs a less than quick centre back and a very defensive minded full back who looks lost when trying to convert defence into attack. While both of these player's are both decent I don't think they are in anyway suited to a high press. I find ole very hypocritical in his pressers almost as if he is paying lip service to the fans. He ties himself up in knots and contridicts himself regularly. It's all very well shipping out the mercanaries but look at what's left in the cupboard.... Not a lot and as injuries take there toll the cupboard is bare. Ole isn't the main problem but unfortunately he is a significant part of the problem in my humble opinion. And I feel the longer he stays the more his legacy is tarnished.
I understand the point - and thats our failing as club. We are poor in the transfer market in terms of buying and selling. We need to change the structure really, but those in poor wont give it up so we're in a bit of a rotten cycle.
I think Ole would play TAA - he's played a lot of youth here. He is a progressive manager - he just has unreal expectations and the most dis-jointed squad i've ever seen at utd
I'm open to criticising Ole as much as i am in favour of praising him.
Was it Ole's decision to hand Jones a contract or the boards reluctance to let a player go "for free"?
The point is - Ole isnt the biggest problem at the club. Allegri or Poch would have issues with this squad.
Peak delusion
It's laughable how low the bar for Ole is. Any other elite club and he would have been long gone. If Ole got 2nd and won the Europa he would ridden on that for another 6-7 years. Not that I liked Mourinho, but at least he was accountable to Manchester United standards. With Ole everyone is pretending he's managing Everton or something.
And quite literally nobody is saying that. However Ole is a big part of the problem at the club. He just shouldn't be anywhere near as a manager here, simple as that. We obviously have other (bigger?) problems but it can't stop us from trying to fix the manager problem which is painfully obvious. Liverpool fans slagged their board for years and then they hired Klopp. Did they board suddenly became great? Did they spend crazy amount of money like City or PSG? No. Klopp had to work with what he had and he did a great job at that. Liverpool team don't look that spectacular to me on paper, just like Spurs one. People just forget how big of an effect the manager can have.
The fact that Ole didn't rotate CBs at all during the festive period and he was reluctant to take Maguire off when he had a knock says all you need to know about the situation. I wonder how many more managers it will take before people start comprehending the bolded part.
Are you a millennial or you have never seen a SAF team play?
I need Rick to rejuvenate me for my cells are dead.
We can fault the board how much ever we want, but the fact of the matter is if the manager is not good enough, he won't be good enough under any board.
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