Pogba is not a club legend.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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You seriously think Pogba has been a success and didn't only join United for a massive pay rise?
I like Ole because his decisions have been logical.
His football coaching is another matter - but we'd already had two good coaches/tacticians and their illogical decisions caused long term damage to the club. We can get a better coach once the damage has been fixed - and in my opinion - that requires at least another 4 new players. That's before a better coach can come in a start adding his own players.
His football coaching is another matter - but we'd already had two good coaches/tacticians and their illogical decisions caused long term damage to the club. We can get a better coach once the damage has been fixed - and in my opinion - that requires at least another 4 new players. That's before a better coach can come in a start adding his own players.
He may have come back as he felt he had unfinished here and had a point to prove.
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I thought you were referring to Ole -- since the thread's about Ole.Apologies, I was picking up the fag end of the convo and had made the wrong assumptions.
Well, whether he turns out to be a good or a bad signing will obviously depend on how he performs for us over time (whether he will turn out a good signing has feck all to do with the price, in short, unless one thinks the transfer significantly impacted our ability to get future transfers done). Did he make sense as a right sort of signing - would be a more pertinent question. He's fairly young, he's a good player, he has certain traits people have been crying out for (and which, presumably, Ole and his staff were looking for too).
You seem - like many others - to be very concerned about the price, which is understandable given how much he actually cost (compare him to VVD and it looks like a shite transfer - sure). However, I don't see this as a case of splashing an insane amount on a player who objectively isn't worth it at the detriment of further recruitment (in other areas). There are good reasons to think we would have coughed up plenty more this summer if certain deals could have been done (but that wasn't to be, for one reason or another). So, I'm not too worried about the money. We needed a CB, he fit the profile and we paid what we had to pay in order to get him. We can keep saying "he isn't an 80m defender" - or we can judge him on what he actually brings to the table.
As for long-term impact, he's 26 and could realistically be a useful player for us for a number of years. Sell-on value is pretty much irrelevant, I would say.
I was responding specifically to the suggestion he was a good 'investment', which can only really refer to resale value or contributing to successful teams over a period of time.
Not really. I was responding to your points which were specifically related to the price of other players on the market and the 'investment' aspect of signing Maguire.
How long is a piece of string?
Could be all sorts of reasons for why certain deals couldn't be done at the time. Unless you think this was some kind of "all eggs in the basket" type of scenario, I really don't see the relevance - or the need to worry about the money, as such.
Does forking out a silly amount on Maguire make it more difficult for us to bring in what we need in other areas? If yes - what do you base that on?
Well, then I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't considering him as an "investment" in anything but an "investing in squad quality" sense.
Did we overpay for him? Undoubtedly, yes. Was he an improvement on what we had? Again, I would say undoubtedly yes. Could we have found someone else, ticking the same boxes, at half the price? I have no idea. But I don't really care how much he cost - and I won't until someone can prove that paying that amount is something we should worry about (because it will turn out to be detrimental with regard to bringing in further reinforcements - which we clearly need).
From the perspective of a fan it’s not our money but it’s quite obvious what the implication of over spending is. Logic, business, budgeting etc, if Maguire and AWB has cost 55m combined I think we’d have bought more players. But they cost 125m so that reduces chances or even meant all budget was gone.
Why is it so hard to get deals done though?. We’ve still got all this cash apparently, most players have a Price and there’s no drawback to overpaying. You believe all that and then seriously think we couldn’t have got one more player.
Fair enough, but the word "investment" is being used pretty loosely at times and often people use the term for any transfer regardless of whether they have a resale in mind or not. On that we would have to agree though, 80 million for a 26 year old is not an "investment", unless you plan to sell him again within 1-2 years, which would be strange indeed
What Ole himself has said amounts to this: he wanted more players, but the specific ones he targeted wasn't attainable at this time.
Why not? I'm not qualified to say. But two obvious factors could be considered: a) we're hardly a dream destination for players at the moment and b) it could plausibly be a matter of not okaying deals involving excessive wages and bonuses.
If the latter is the case, it's not a matter of - well - lacking funds (we clearly aren't, compared to almost anyone) but a matter of policy (a new one - in the wake of the ridiculous Sanchez deal, we have actually adopted a new approach).
So if our policy is not to overpay why did we overpay for Maguire and why didn’t somebody have the sense to realise how desperately we need a midfielder.
People can make up excuse after excuse but all any of them do is highlight that no one at the club knows what they are doing.
There were tons of players that could've improved us in midfield and attack that I can see no reason not coming here and not 100m rated players.
Ole and the technical team are the ones who should judge and determine if the squad is good enough to reach the goals set pre season. If we are short in certain areas then they should be addressed. If we can't bring the #1 target we move to #2, #3, etc.
It's not the board or CEO decision to make whether we have good enough team for the season forward, they can sanction a deal or advice against it based on certain economics, but who we should sign and if we can trust the youth players is anywhere else down to the coaching staff.
It may just be an investor report as they always carry a tone of optimism for obvious reasons but if true would actually be nice to know he hasn't been given the green light to finish 10th. Some fans say it like they were there when the season's expectations were set. They can shift their personal bar of expectations but it doesn't make it what the club is aiming for
Having a season where he's allowed to completely bottom out wasn't envisioned by anyone before the season started (within or outside the club)
Aha, yes - but what were those goals?
Overpaid on the transfer fee. Which is nothing but par for the course when United buy anyone (nevermind anyone from a PL club). What's Maguire's wage and bonus(es) deal?
We desperately need a midfielder (or two) in order to challenge for the biggest prizes. But when are we supposed to do that? This season?
Surely top 4, or let's say CL qualification? Doesn't make sense otherwise. All managers after Fergie had that goal and as soon as it looked unlikely to be achieved they got the sack.
Being in CL should be the bare minimum for a club like United.
Even during the course of the season - Spurs and Arsenal are in disarray and just sacked (and about to sack) their manager. Leicester look comfortably top 4 side, with resigning Tielemans as their main transfer, alongside Perez and Praet for a combined value of us taking their best defender. Leicester even finished 9th and Rodgers took over in late February.
It's not like you can say this season every other team that finished behind us or above us strengthened particularly much on the transfer market(if we exclude City and Pool, being long ahead of the pack anyway).
It's alright, I jumped on someone else's comment about Pogba and presumed I was in the Pogab thread. Apologies for the confusion!
Apologies, I was picking up the fag end of the convo and had made the wrong assumptions.
We overpaid in wages and bonuses for Sanchez because there was no teenager fee. All we did with Maguire was overpay on the fee instead.
We had all summer to buy a midfielder, we desperately needed at least, according to you we still had load of cash and can overpay if need to. We bought none, maybe the most plausible explanation is in fact true, the budget was spent.
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Wow this guy just made Lingard captain
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It makes no sense whatsoever to allow what happened this summer IF the target actually is what you propose.
IF what you propose is the case, we have to conclude that:
a) Ole is insanely naive (at best).
or:
b) that Woodward has let Ole down massively.
We don't have to conclude that either is the case, though.
Meet in the middle and part of both?
Surely if a club spends 150m pounds in the Summer (more than any other team close to him, even City and Pool) you have to set top 4 as a minimum?
Surely the standards couldn't have dropped so low just because it's Ole at the wheel. If we are to drop the standards because we have an average manager, why appoint him in the first place.
We counted on these spaces that never occurred in the first half. You have to defend the lead. Players should not lose focus like that, full stop, Nothing to do with tactics or whatever.
You mean the guy who scored? What's the problem of Lingard being captain? Jesus...
While I do understand that there are people that are unhappy about the way our team is performing and voicing those opinions while also wanting a change in manager/staff/players is fine. Personal abuse like this for a man who loves our football club as much as our die hard fans, really should be a bannable offense on this forum.
No shock we are playing good. He doesn’t get to coach the youth team.
Unbelievable comment... we are playing good because Astana is weak.
But Ole is still in charge and it's his ideas. In fact, have you ever considered that young players tend to listen more carefully because they want to follow the orders? While some senior players do their own things when they don't understand what's going on?
Lingard is the latest scapegoat.
He’s only had them for a day. You think he was coaching drills all week?
He’s just told them to go out and enjoy themselves. You know this and I know this.
The gaffer used to say that too before each of every game. You know this and I know this. It doesn't change that the real work is in their head.He’s only had them for a day. You think he was coaching drills all week?
He’s just told them to go out and enjoy themselves. You know this and I know this.
True. They might aswel just coach themselves. Who needs a manger it’s all in the players heads. We are on to something here. Let’s make clubs be managed by computers in the future. Cheaper too.
What a pathetic post.
Bannable offense? Are you serious? Much bigger legends of this club are being disrespected on here regularly, calling out Ole for an absolute bonkers decision is far from that.
No I meant the guy who has been performing disgracefuly for an eternity.
The only thing pathetic here is throwing the Manchester United’s armband to whoever is the managers’s latest pet, and then chaps like you defending such a decision being called out.
Shh.... don't give the Glazers and Ed Woodward that idea.
He isn't even regular player, this team is full of u23 players with only Shaw and Lingard from first team + retired Grant.
You didn't call out decision, you abused Ole because of your pathetic agenda and hatred for Lingard. Such a weird poster/person whatever the feck.
You seem the one to take the burden from Haram and co of policing whoever doesn’t like Lingard to be branded out as agenda driven. You the same moral chap who has no problem in Ole’s agenda of persising with shit players like Lingard and even giving them captain’s armband. Fans like you have lowered standards for Ole so much that any shit decision is fine and reasoned for. Tuanzebe was captain not so long ago, and is also much better captain material than Jesse Lingard, guess that wasn’t important because Ole likesLingard much better.
Bannable offence?
If that's a bannable offence maybe the internet isn't the place for you, read any Pogba thread, you would ban 30% of the posters.
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