Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Jose wanted to sell Martial for Perisic
and wanted to bring in Willian among other 30+ year old players who could give him a season of glory before declining.
I believe we are in much better hands for the long term.
and wanted to bring in Willian among other 30+ year old players who could give him a season of glory before declining.
I believe we are in much better hands for the long term.
Some people would have even less patience with Guardiola, actually, as he's not a cherished club legend.I am really having people argue that if it was Pep instead of Ole the same amount of people would want him out too.
If anything, the idea that people wouldn't be out of patience with Guardiola if he won 3 games in 15 is the fecking mental one. Imagine a manager with his track record coming here and doing that shit? People would be calling him a has been and saying he's falling behind the t... heeeey that sounds familiar!
SOME people, yes. Overall more people would want Ole out.
Focus on youth is more than just bringing in academy players your right. But focus on youth means actually developing them. So when you have a gaping whole at number 10 and you refuse to use your talented academy player who you was happy to talk up when you didn’t get a CM. Maybe your not as youth focused as you claim. Plus 4 games in but 20 games in with Rashford and he’s getting Worse!!!
Where's your evidence?
Where's your past examples of managers who fit your argument?
Come on, I've asked you multiple times now, where exactly is your fecking proof?
He is developing them by giving them more responsibility. Like I said, 4 games is too small sample size to worry about number of mins. We have already trimmed the squad, logical leap is the young players are promoted to first team to fill those positions, so they will be getting games once Europa league and league cup starts.
Btw, it's funny when someone use what Ole said in PC against him. What do you expect? Play down the players we have? He also praised Lukaku, Sanchez and others before they left. What he says in media means nothing, he just keeps everything in the dressing room.
People who want Ole out already are just impatient children who want instant success and cant cope with the success of Liverpool and City. Ole needs at least 3 more transfer windows. Even if we finished 10th this season I'd still back him. He needs the players he wants and that will take time.
I'd leave it, guy is relentless.
What do you mean evidence? We are specifically talking about Ole's run. You really do have to be special to think the same amount of people would for example want SAF out if he went on the same run as Ole.
So you can't provide a single example of where a scenario like you're claiming happened before?Unlucky results combined with mistakes from certain players and you are calling the manager out. Get rid of 10 players, buy 5-6 new and then judge him. We have a weak squad and it's not only up to the manager to fix it. Jose said, one of his biggest achievements was the second place with United and i don't think he is a hypocrite like Klopp.
We are talking about Ole's specific scenario you Massive Spanner.
But that would never happen under Pep. United under the helm of Pep United would play some beautiful inventive attacking football. Nobody wanted Pep out after failing to win the league on his first attempt.
There is impatient and understanding the game. If we finished 10th with the squad we have he needs to go. We need to be ruthless. He would have been in the job for 18th months with no progress.
I feel his job is only safe if we achieve top 4. Yes we cannot cope with our biggest rivals competing for titles whilst we are in an ever transition period.
But in this specific scenario all you are naming are hypothetical situations and calling anyone with a different opinion to you "special" and "deluded". How can you so matter of factly state that you're right when you haven't got a shred of evidence to go on?
If there's zero evidence to back up your claim and plenty of past examples of managers who have this "pedigree" you talk about getting sacked as soon as they feck things up then please, please tell me how are we the deluded ones?
Because it is common sense that less people would want someone like SAF out if he went on the same run as Ole.
You got me there.
If you think that proves your point then ok. You genuinely think if the greatest manager of all time, SAF, went on the same run as Ole, the same amount of people would want him out
.I think if it was apparent that he was failing here and wasn't going to turn things around then yes.If you think that proves your point then ok. You genuinely think if the greatest manager of all time, SAF went on the same run as Ole, the same amount of people would want him out
but that's only what I think, we don't know. What we do know is that numerous great managers have been sacked in the past when they failed despite producing trophies even just the season before. You seem to be ignoring that.
This is pointless anyway, keep living in your little imaginary world where facts don't matter and your brain is the only thing worth listening to.
Well i'm repeating myself but i feel that i feel that the fact that we have 2 more points from these 4 fixtures compared to last year is something that shouldn't be overlooked.
This while the play is far from perfect and we have some injury problems. I pulled some stats as well showing that we are shooting more but not hitting goal as much 38% vs. 28%
(in these 4 games). We are also better at shutting down the oppositions options to attack. If we look at the three last games we had 2, 3 and 2 shots on goal.
Sick that we have conceded 4 out of 7 shots on goal the last three games.
A positive thing is that we have scored in every game this season.
I still feel it's hard to understand why Ole is the worst manager that we possibly could have according to some people. A squad of young players playing together on the big stage without much
backup need all the backing they can get and i think Ole is right for this.
The big disappointment in my book is that we lost against palace at home. Wolves and Southampton away are tricky games and i think i read somewhere after last season that
people predicted we would have 0 points after the first four games and Ole would be out the door before september.
I think Ole should be backed until he at least have a chance to replace the deadwood he has shipped. And I have a suspicion that we will be positively surprised by results this season.
And hopefully some of the young guns will prove that we don't need to replace as many players as we think at the moment.
2018/2019 Shots (on goal) Manutd figures first
Chelsea at home 1-1 1 point 7-16 (5-3)
Wolverhampton away 1-2 0 points 18-9 (4-2)
Crystal Palace at home 0-0 1 point 12-13 (5-2)
Southampton away 2-2 1 points 16-11 (6-5)
Sum 2018/19 3 points 53-58 (20-12)
2019/2020 Shots (on goal) Manutd figures first
Chelsea at home 4-0 3 points 11-18 (5-7)
Wolverhampton away 1-1 1 point 9-6 (2-2)
Crystal Palace at home 1-2 0 points 22-5 (3-3)
Southampton away 1-1 1 point 21-10 (8-2)
Sum 2019/20 5 points 63-39 (18-14)
Mourinho coached us vs. Southampton and Crystal Palace, Ole vs Chelsea and Wolves.
This while the play is far from perfect and we have some injury problems. I pulled some stats as well showing that we are shooting more but not hitting goal as much 38% vs. 28%
(in these 4 games). We are also better at shutting down the oppositions options to attack. If we look at the three last games we had 2, 3 and 2 shots on goal.
Sick that we have conceded 4 out of 7 shots on goal the last three games.
A positive thing is that we have scored in every game this season.
I still feel it's hard to understand why Ole is the worst manager that we possibly could have according to some people. A squad of young players playing together on the big stage without much
backup need all the backing they can get and i think Ole is right for this.
The big disappointment in my book is that we lost against palace at home. Wolves and Southampton away are tricky games and i think i read somewhere after last season that
people predicted we would have 0 points after the first four games and Ole would be out the door before september.
I think Ole should be backed until he at least have a chance to replace the deadwood he has shipped. And I have a suspicion that we will be positively surprised by results this season.
And hopefully some of the young guns will prove that we don't need to replace as many players as we think at the moment.
2018/2019 Shots (on goal) Manutd figures first
Chelsea at home 1-1 1 point 7-16 (5-3)
Wolverhampton away 1-2 0 points 18-9 (4-2)
Crystal Palace at home 0-0 1 point 12-13 (5-2)
Southampton away 2-2 1 points 16-11 (6-5)
Sum 2018/19 3 points 53-58 (20-12)
2019/2020 Shots (on goal) Manutd figures first
Chelsea at home 4-0 3 points 11-18 (5-7)
Wolverhampton away 1-1 1 point 9-6 (2-2)
Crystal Palace at home 1-2 0 points 22-5 (3-3)
Southampton away 1-1 1 point 21-10 (8-2)
Sum 2019/20 5 points 63-39 (18-14)
Mourinho coached us vs. Southampton and Crystal Palace, Ole vs Chelsea and Wolves.
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During the 90s, the club embarked on a pioneering path and understood the way the game was going better than most, appreciating that globalisation was coming and commercialisation was the way to monetise the “brand”. We were the first to have a third kit, the first to flog tat to fans thousands of miles away. We did this whilst aggressively expanding our stadium to being the biggest in the country.
Following this, the club had a huge financial advantage over everyone (til Roman arrived) and had arguably the greatest manager of all time at the helm that had a unique ability to adapt and rebuild sides in the face of a changing game.
When any institution has achieved massive success through a particular model, it becomes inevitable that complacency will set in over time, with a dogmatic belief that what has worked previously will always work and this is what has happened in the last decade. Old Trafford is now pretty shabby in comparison to rival grounds, for instance.
As such, we’ve stopped innovating, stopped being ahead of the curve and fallen behind our contemporaries in the process. This rot had begun prior to Sir retiring, with the departure of Ronaldo probably the first sign of the decline. We carried on winning trophies, because Fergie was that good and our rivals were nothing special, but his final seasons were spent wringing the last out of his final great team, the 08 champions league winners.
When he finally departed, we had an ageing squad that desperately required major surgery. Rio and Vidic were finished, as were Scholes and Giggs, and Rooney and RVP didn’t have much left to give either. A prolonged lack of investment and Fergie softening to the extent that the likes of Anderson were still kicking around meant we were in poor shape.
We all know what happens next; Moyes, Van Gaal and Jose, 3 completely different types of managers all trying to get to the root of the problem, but that kind of deep malaise takes a while to fix and requires patience which given our previous success was understandably in short supply.
This brings us to where we are now and hopefully the early stages of a rebuild. Do I think Ole is the man to lead us long term? Almost certainly not, but there’s not a chance we’re winning the title no matter who is in the dugout. Pep and Klopp are probably the finest managers currently working and they’re deep into their respective projects. They’ll take some toppling. As such, a long term view is the sensible option and I think Ole is a reasonable shout to manage us through the start of the rebuild. The squad has been purged this season. Sure, we could do with one or two more, but as Liverpool have shown, it’s better to buy the right players than any old players.
If we can rebuild a team spirit, something that has been sadly lacking, and blood some youngsters, work out which ones will make it, then we’ll wind up with a lean, young, hungry squad.
The 3 managers before Ole all inherited a mess, I think Ole’s job is to clean everything up and ensure the manager that follows him (which I think will be Poch next summer) inherits something much better. A young, motivated squad, a trimmed wage bill and a handsome transfer kitty to build towards a title challenge. Realistically, we’re not going to challenge for the league until 21/22 at the earliest; what we’re doing now seems to me to be laying the foundations for that. Ole is not a title winning manager, he’s a transitional one and I for accept that.
Following this, the club had a huge financial advantage over everyone (til Roman arrived) and had arguably the greatest manager of all time at the helm that had a unique ability to adapt and rebuild sides in the face of a changing game.
When any institution has achieved massive success through a particular model, it becomes inevitable that complacency will set in over time, with a dogmatic belief that what has worked previously will always work and this is what has happened in the last decade. Old Trafford is now pretty shabby in comparison to rival grounds, for instance.
As such, we’ve stopped innovating, stopped being ahead of the curve and fallen behind our contemporaries in the process. This rot had begun prior to Sir retiring, with the departure of Ronaldo probably the first sign of the decline. We carried on winning trophies, because Fergie was that good and our rivals were nothing special, but his final seasons were spent wringing the last out of his final great team, the 08 champions league winners.
When he finally departed, we had an ageing squad that desperately required major surgery. Rio and Vidic were finished, as were Scholes and Giggs, and Rooney and RVP didn’t have much left to give either. A prolonged lack of investment and Fergie softening to the extent that the likes of Anderson were still kicking around meant we were in poor shape.
We all know what happens next; Moyes, Van Gaal and Jose, 3 completely different types of managers all trying to get to the root of the problem, but that kind of deep malaise takes a while to fix and requires patience which given our previous success was understandably in short supply.
This brings us to where we are now and hopefully the early stages of a rebuild. Do I think Ole is the man to lead us long term? Almost certainly not, but there’s not a chance we’re winning the title no matter who is in the dugout. Pep and Klopp are probably the finest managers currently working and they’re deep into their respective projects. They’ll take some toppling. As such, a long term view is the sensible option and I think Ole is a reasonable shout to manage us through the start of the rebuild. The squad has been purged this season. Sure, we could do with one or two more, but as Liverpool have shown, it’s better to buy the right players than any old players.
If we can rebuild a team spirit, something that has been sadly lacking, and blood some youngsters, work out which ones will make it, then we’ll wind up with a lean, young, hungry squad.
The 3 managers before Ole all inherited a mess, I think Ole’s job is to clean everything up and ensure the manager that follows him (which I think will be Poch next summer) inherits something much better. A young, motivated squad, a trimmed wage bill and a handsome transfer kitty to build towards a title challenge. Realistically, we’re not going to challenge for the league until 21/22 at the earliest; what we’re doing now seems to me to be laying the foundations for that. Ole is not a title winning manager, he’s a transitional one and I for accept that.
Lets all be optimistic. I can see us going on a 10-12 game winning streak soon
Yeah we should finish top four even though there's 5 teams who have better squads than us.
Why in that case do we have an extensive scouting network?
And it’s a good one, and much more relevant to the discussion than most of the posts on here, which are just people with entrenched positions trying to get one up on their rivals.
On an even more granular level, I can’t understand why our set pieces are still so terrible, and why our defence still looks disorganised despite upgrading the personnel. And why De Gea is still taking those God-awful long punts.
I’d have far more confidence in Ole’s overall strategy if I could see any improvement in the little details.
It’s not 4 games it’s nearly a full year. Where he’s been more bad than good. With sporadic introduction of the youth and like i pointed out still no individual improvement from the first team 11.
I think it's absurd he is given a free pass just because he's played for the club.
If he never played for us and had the same CV he would get hammered. We always talk about ruthlessness. Well, as fans it's time to get ruthless as well.
If we are not top 6 by Christmas, Ole has to go.
If he never played for us and had the same CV he would get hammered. We always talk about ruthlessness. Well, as fans it's time to get ruthless as well.
If we are not top 6 by Christmas, Ole has to go.
There is only actually 2. Liverpool and City.
If you compare the rest of them, we should compete with them.
Spurs - Thin squad
Arsenal - No midfield or defence
Chelsea - Had a transfer ban and lost their best player.
So again, how are 5 teams with better squad than us?
We don't know that. Maybe we'd be playing beautiful football but results would still suffer.
Top 6 by Christmas, that's a strange margin.
My thoughts quasi exactly. I'm far from a stalwart here, but recently the New members have been contributing a lot, so maybe this is a norm, I don't know.
Excellent post, @SilverPaper on the Breeze.
I think the fact that the three signings he made have been our best players suggests he knows the sort of players and characters he wants at the club. Just not sure he'll get the time to make the required changes to the squad and I do question some of his tactical stuff (subs, not being able to break down low blocks).
I think fans are getting too carried away with the low block. Against Palace and Southampton we had chances to go ahead and equalise. It is obviously harder to break teams down when they are holding on a result.
Even City and Liverpool would struggle (be it not as bad as us) if palace were 1-0 up or Southampton playing 1-1 with 10 men.
If we took our chances earlier in the game, like City and Pool do we can control games and hit teams on the break after 70 mins when they are looking for an equaliser / winner.
Brilliant post. I mentioned the same things the other day. Ole need not travel with us like SAF did but his upsides are better than downsides at this point in time. We have invested figures closer to billion pounds since the big man is gone and we still have a very poor squad to show for. We need to sort out this mess before we can be on the upward trajectory and that's exactly what Ole is doing. In 5 years when we start to look back on where things have started to go right, then ole will get his due credits if not now.
Very good post this.
This is exactly how I see this, Ole´s job is to get us back to the root and is for another manager to take us further.
There are a million steps between what Jose says and how Ole is talking. Poch doesn't talk down his squad but puts pressure on Levi by constantly reminding him the need to sign top talents. The players also want to see the team getting refreshed. It's not like you either throw the squad under the bus or coddle them.
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