Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[steve.crowford]

Regardless of the owners and woodward solskjaer should

A. Be able to force their hand and threaten to resign if they dont invest in a woefully depleted midfield and attack.

B. For the above he can have a hand in identifying players, even lesser known ones who might improve our squad. Even if its a loan, a free agent or short term signing

C. Coach the players in such a way they can do the basics well like make themselves available for a pass and transition between defense and attack in a well orchestrated manner.

D. Stamp his authority on matters like who takes penalty kicks.

E. Play players in positions where they can be most effective rather than moving them to compensate for weak areas of our team. Rashford drifting wide a lot and pogba as a dm being two such examples.

F. Reacting to setbacks in games and changing tactics and mentally conditioning the players to turn a draw into a win or a defeat into a draw.

G. Bringing confidence out of players and stopping a player getting into a bad rut when they have a dip in form

Now the alarming run of results and manner of our performances suggests we are failing in a lot of these aspects. Managing in the PL is hard so its not surprising that Ole might be up to the task. He has no real experience of managerial success in a top league prior to joining us. We are probably slowly coming to terms with the poor showing of yesterday but surely he can't be given too many more games to buck this trend of failure.

 

[sunama]

But Jose has never fixed anything in his third season once it went to shit so your belief was completely misguided.

Let's be honest, your difference between Mourinho and Ole is that you love Mourinho.

Are you seriously trying to compare Jose with Ole?
If you can't see the difference in ability, then I won't say anything else.

 

[Twins]

I said less people would want Poch out compared to Ole. Why? Because people might feel like he can turn it around as he has done a good job at Spurs. It's not even a controversial point.

Interesting that there is so much controversy around this not controversial point.

With most people on the other side than you.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Are you seriously trying to compare Jose with Ole?
If you can't see the difference in ability, then I won't say anything else.

No and if you bothered to read the posts you'd know that.

 

[7even]

No, my argument has been spelled out numerous times on here, which is that what the likes of yourself and many others are totally missing the context of a shockingly bad transfer window by the board which has rendered an already not for purpose squad to be even more depleted with nowhere near the correct level of investment.

Pogba is played in the double pivot because (while Fred is persona non grata) the alternative is Matic. Need I say anymore?

Lukaku wasn't our best striker and was ill fitting to the style that Ole wants to play. It also wasn't helpful that he was an unprofessional twat who was a rotten presence and influence in the dressing room.

Ole, in Herrera's own words, didn't want Herrera to leave but it was too late to do anything about it because the club had already pissed him off long before Ole came in.

I didn't see many glum faces when Fellaini left, even among his backers, on here and online. Even so, the departures were much needed. The incomings are on the board. Ole identified numerous players, and literally said a replacement was needed if Lukaku left. Neither materialised. Do you blame Ole for that, or the negotiating team, whose job it is?

I suggest you watch the games again if you think that what you wrote is anywhere near correct. We do press well, we defend much better as a unit, and we do get into good attacking positions. The final pass/shot lets us down, and we do make mistakes in both attack and defence, which is par for the course when you have one of the youngest squads in the league, and have consistently fielded the youngest team in the league since the season started. Having a young team means that there will be games when things don't come off. Rooney and Ronaldo had so many patchy games and months in their first two seasons together and they had a stellar team to grow into.

It's not so much you that I have an issue with, it's others who are absolutely disrespectful. You compare it to what these same people were saying in his interim thread and it makes for pathetic reading. These people don't want Ole to succeed because it would mean that they'd have to climb down on the high horse that they have got themselves on.

I don't think I've ever said that my view is the only view either, and I've said multiple times that I am more than willing to consider that Ole might not be the right man for the job, but only time will tell if that is indeed the case - not 3 games which could quite easily have gone the other way and not during a start to the season where literally every team in the top 6 bar City and Liverpool are just as inconsistent as us.

I also believe that my role as a supporter is to do this funny thing called support. Others on the other hand, are losing their shit because the team isn't winning. They have also made up their minds and won't give Ole any credit when things do go well. They'd rather win an argument on an internet forum than see the team do well, which again, is pretty pathetic.

I do draw the line on their support being valid. It isn't support. They are relentlessly negative and only want to bask in the glory of supporting a big team. The matchday threads are testament to this, and mocks your view that "everyone is 100% supportive on match days". Like I've said before, they aren't supporters, they're consumers.

It's fine to draw on the negatives after a poor result, but within time, I'd hope that you'd also look at the positives and what we'd actually done well. You'd also consider the context of looking at a depleted squad which is one of the youngest in the league, and that with such a young team peaks and troughs are expected and that with the lack of board backing in the summer, there isn't much any manager would do different with such a squad. If you don't consider all that, and only focus on the negatives, then you're no better than the ones I'm talking about if I'm being completely honest.

You make many valid points and I wish I saw the light the same way you seems to do.

When I’m not comfortable with something/someone I try to go back to basic. What where my expectations. What did I see in the first place.

In his (OGS) first couple of games as interim manager we started to play with quick movements, one or two touch passes, high pressing line with all players involved. I saw commitment, passion and for the first time in many many years I saw the light in the tunnel.

I saw Pogba in his best position and suddenly we started to look like a team. Eleven players who worked together with one goal in their mind. It was so refreshing. I was literally sold on Ole Gunnar’s ability to turn this around.

Then something happened. The rest we all know.

My question is what happens between these first four five game to now. Why did we stop to use that initial formula that worked so well in the beginning. How can our performances quality drop so dramatically with almost the same players?

This season we started well but against Palace we lost our momentum when Pogba missed that penalty and from there our results has been way below expectations.

I can’t understand why we continue to use Pogba in a 4231 formation when we struggle so hard to create chances in the final third. Why? I heard you. Matic! But in my world that’s not an excuse on this level. We must have more then two quality midfielders otherwise Ole Gunnar’s comments about he’s happy with his squad is a lie.

Why can’t we go back to more movements, a better passing game, better organization, more synchronized? I refuse to believe it’s that hard. Either our players are stupid or our management can’t communicate. Take your pick. If they could do all this things in Ole Gunnar’s first couple of games why can’t they do it now?

That’s my question.

 

[haram]

Interesting that there is so much controversy around this not controversial point.

With most people on the other side than you.

Well it shouldn't be controversial to say a proven manager would get more patience from fans compared to someone who has proven nothing.

People keep bringing up Jose and LVG. The patience for these managers did not run out after half a season, that's the difference.

 

[croadyman]

I am starting to think that the main reason Ole signs just british players is because he doesn't know the continental market and therefore doesn't have the pull to attract players from there.

 

[Foxbatt]

Well it shouldn't be controversial to say a proven manager would get more patience from fans compared to someone who has proven nothing.

People keep bringing up Jose and LVG. The patience for these managers did not run out after half a season, that's the difference.

Actually it did for them too. So long as they were delivering they were tolerated. LVG got us into the CL places the first season. He then won us the FA Cup but failed to get into the CL and was sacked. Jose got us the EL and the League Cup in his first season and hence got into the CL the next season. In his second season he got us to 2nd place in the PL and in the third year he was sacked. So they did get a lot of stick too. Ole seems to be getting a lot less stick than them for sure.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Well it shouldn't be controversial to say a proven manager would get more patience from fans compared to someone who has proven nothing.

People keep bringing up Jose and LVG. The patience for these managers did not run out after half a season, that's the difference.

The patience ran out as soon as it became evident that they were failing here and weren't going to turn things around. patience is running out with Ole too because he's failing but I don't think overall that patience has run out for him, it's probably a 70/30 split in favour of keeping him.

Time in the job or previous achievements mean nothing when it comes to modern football and managers. You cite Poch as an example but Spurs will definitely sack him once it becomes apparent he won't turn it around. Klopp at Dortmund, Conte, Mourinho, Di Matteo at Chelsea, pretty much everyone at Real, even Raneiri after achieving the impossible at Leicester - managers aren't afforded extra time or patience anymore purely because of their reputation.

You keep missing the overall point in this which is that it simply does not matter what a manager has done in this past once they reach a point where they look like they have failed in the job.

 

[Ban]

I said less people would want Poch out compared to Ole. Why? Because people might feel like he can turn it around as he has done a good job at Spurs. It's not even a controversial point.

So I said why they wouldn't cause they wanted Jose out, one if the best managers in history.

 

[haram]

The patience ran out as soon as it became evident that they were failing here and weren't going to turn things around. patience is running out with Ole too because he's failing but I don't think overall that patience has run out for him, it's probably a 70/30 split in favour of keeping him.

Time in the job or previous achievements mean nothing when it comes to modern football and managers. You cite Poch as an example but Spurs will definitely sack him once it becomes apparent he won't turn it around. Klopp at Dortmund, Conte, Mourinho, Di Matteo at Chelsea, pretty much everyone at Real, even Raneiri after achieving the impossible at Leicester - managers aren't afforded extra time or patience anymore purely because of their reputation.

You keep missing the overall point in this which is that it simply does not matter what a manager has done in this past once they reach a point where they look like they have failed in the job.

Where did I say managers do not eventually get sacked? Having a track record of doing well does buy you some time. How much time? It depends on the situation. No one can tell me that it is the same for a manager with a track record and one without one.

 

[haram]

So I said why they wouldn't cause they wanted Jose out, one if the best managers in history.

The time span is different though isn't it. We are talking about the time Ole has been here and the run. You are trying to use Jose and LVG as an example but they were here for 2 years and patience can wear thin over time.

 

[roonster09]

So I said why they wouldn't cause they wanted Jose out, one if the best managers in history.

Exactly. Van Gaal was good in the first season and in the second season by around november time people wanted him gone as the games were unwatchable and also results weren't good enough. We scored very few goals.

Jose was good first season even though we finished 6th, second season by midseason people wanted him gone as there was no progress in the how he set up the team. Actually when Jose was getting results many wanted him out, his past achievements, records didn't get him more leeway. If anything many fans wanted him gone even when he qualified for CL.

Fans back managers when they see progress, they will want them gone once they don't. Some see progress as how the results are achieved, some see progress just by results.

 

[Dec9003]

Managers last as long as the results do. Compare Van Gaal and Mourinho to Moyes. The first two were initially successful, so got to keep their job, Moyes made it very obvious very quickly that he was out of his depth, hence he lost his job earlier.

 

[haram]

I am really having people argue that if it was Pep instead of Ole the same amount of people would want him out too .

 

[Massive Spanner]

Where did I say managers do not eventually get sacked? Having a track record of doing well does buy you some time. How much time? It depends on the situation. No one can tell me that it is the same for a manager with a track record and one without one.

I can because I strongly disagree with that idea. A manager always gets time up until the point where they have failed, regardless of their pedigree.

 

[Mainoldo]

Managers last as long as the results do. Compare Van Gaal and Mourinho to Moyes. The first two were initially successful, so got to keep their job, Moyes made it very obvious very quickly that he was out of his depth, hence he lost his job earlier.

Do you think Solskjaer will last with this in mind? As I believe romance should not Holt moving him on. But I fear it will.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I am really having people argue that if it was Pep instead of Ole the same amount of people would want him out too .

There were City fans wanting Pep out after he finished fourth in his first season! If Pep had 3 wins in 15 games you don't think people would want him out?

 

[Mainoldo]

I am really having people argue that if it was Pep instead of Ole the same amount of people would want him out too .

No chance. Pep would get a season, my fear is so will Ole even with like you said no pedigree.

 

[Dec9003]

Do you think Solskjaer will last with this in mind? As I believe romance should not Holt moving him on. But I fear it will.

If the results don't turn around, no. I like Ole, and I like the changes hes made to the squad (I really like the new signings) but if we continue to not pick up points his position will become untenable.

 

[haram]

There were City fans wanting Pep out after he finished fourth in his first season! If Pep had 3 wins in 15 games you don't think people would want him out?

SOME people would want him out. Would it be as many people that want Ole out? Hell fecking no. How deluded do you have to be to not believe that.

 

[red4ever 79]

There were City fans wanting Pep out after he finished fourth in his first season! If Pep had 3 wins in 15 games you don't think people would want him out?

no because Pep unlike Ole has been very successful at other clubs similar stature to Utd. Like comparing a Skoda with a Porsche

 

[haram]

For arguments sake, let's say a manager wins 10 champions league trophies in a row. He then goes on a run like Ole. You are telling me the same amount of people would want him out compared to Ole?

Are you guys smoking crack?

No chance. Pep would get a season, my fear is so will Ole even with like you said no pedigree.

Someone with some sense.

 

[DatIrishFella]

He's giving youth a chance, he's actually trying to clear deadwood, you can see what kind of football we are trying to play, which is something I couldnt say about our previous three managers.

Let him learn and he'll succeed here.

Im excited for a the future.

 

[Massive Spanner]

SOME people would want him out. Would it be as many people that want Ole out? Hell fecking no. How deluded do you have to be to not believe that.

I mean you really have no idea who would want him out.

There evidence is fecking there for you. We hired one of the best managers ever in Mourinho and as soon as basically anything went wrong, be it performances, a few results on the bounce or him acting like a dickhead, there were people wanting him out of the door.

 

[Dec9003]

SOME people would want him out. Would it be as many people that want Ole out? Hell fecking no. How deluded do you have to be to not believe that.

You keep saying this, please, show us some evidence. Show us a united manager that failed his objectives, had a terrible run of form for about half a season but wasn't being hounded out by a significant portion of the fanbase. We're all waiting.

 

[Ban]

For arguments sake, let's say a manager wins 10 champions league trophies in a row. He then goes on a run like Ole. You are telling me the same amount of people would want him out compared to Ole?

Are you guys smoking crack?



Someone with some sense.

Seems to you're the one who's smoking.

 

[Mainoldo]

He's giving youth a chance, he's actually trying to clear deadwood, you can see what kind of football we are trying to play, which is something I couldnt say about our previous three managers.

Let him learn and he'll succeed here.

Im excited for a the future.

I seen LVG football on Saturday and I’m still unclear to where prowler get this notion. He is giving youth a chance. So I’ll let you tell me the youth that are been given a chance?

 

[haram]

Seems to you're the one who's smoking.

So you think if Pep went on the same run as Ole the same amount of people would want him out?

 

[VP89]

He's giving youth a chance, he's actually trying to clear deadwood, you can see what kind of football we are trying to play, which is something I couldnt say about our previous three managers.

Let him learn and he'll succeed here.

Im excited for a the future.

What youth players has he given a chance? Greenwood can't get a game ahead of Pereira in a front 3, Tuanzebe doesn't feature, Gomes doesn't come close to our match day squad and nor does Garner. It's a stark contrast so far to what we had expected to see from the pre season endeavours.

 

[Ban]

So you think if Pep went on the same run as Ole the same amount of people would want him out?

Absolutely. Jesus even the guys who normally very critical of Ole are trying to point it out for you.

 

[roonster09]

I seen LVG football on Saturday and I’m still unclear to where prowler get this notion. He is giving youth a chance. So I’ll let you tell me the youth that are been given a chance?

Giving youth doesn't just mean throwing them to first team.

We have signed AWB who is just 21.
Signed James who is 21
Replaced Matic with McTominay who is 22.
Replaced 26 year old Lukaku who didn't suit the way Ole wanted to play with Martial who is 23.
Made Rashford regular first team player instead of just playing him as a sub and end up playing around 50% of total mins. Again he is just 21

We have reduced the age in so many positions. We have promoted Greenwood to first team squad who is 17. Then Ole said likes of Gomes, Chong will get mins once we have 3 games in a week.

So we made young bench players as first team players. Young reserves into bench players.

How is that not focusing on the youth? We had youngster team in PL this season.

We have cleared the squad positions and then promoted young players to squad roles. That's how you promote the young players. We played just 4 games which was 1 game a week, You use complete squad when you have 3 games a week, not just for the sake of it.

 

[Ban]

What youth players has he given a chance? Greenwood can't get a game ahead of Pereira in a front 3, Tuanzebe doesn't feature, Gomes doesn't come close to our match day squad and nor does Garner. It's a stark contrast so far to what we had expected to see from the pre season endeavours.

Can't just throw them in. I expect to see a lot of them when games start to be every 3 days.

 

[haram]

Absolutely. Jesus even the guys who normally very critical of Ole are trying to point it out for you.

You are 100% deluded.

 

[VP89]

Can't just throw them in. I expect to see a lot of them when games start to be every 3 days.

Me too, I'd hope he integrates at least Greenwood. I was surprised at his omission from Saturday, partly because I felt he can't do worse than Pereira as a minimum.

 

[roonster09]

Me too, I'd hope he integrates at least Greenwood. I was surprised at his omission from Saturday, partly because I felt he can't do worse than Pereira as a minimum.

He said players like Gomes will get games in September and October when Europa league starts. At that time we need to use the squad, we shouldn't be using it when we have just 1 game a week. Just play the strongest team possible.

Btw, I believe Gomes and Greenwood should play instead of Lingard and whoever starts as RW but maybe Ole feels it's too much to chance. Hopefully by the end of the season both of these young players will play lot of games and makes it was first team players.

 

[Mainoldo]

Giving youth doesn't just mean throwing them to first team.



We have cleared the squad positions and then promoted young players to squad roles. That's how you promote the young players. We played just 4 games which was 1 game a week, You use complete squad when you have 3 games a week, not just for the sake of it.

If your not throwing them into the first team how are you giving them a chance. It just looks good. Signing a 21 year old who is clearly of a level to play I.e. AWB is not giving youth a chance. Same goes for claiming he’s playing Martial. I mean he’s 23 been playing here from 19. LVG have youth a chance Tyler Blackett actually started games. Chong and Greenwood get 5 pathetic minutes if that a game where I’ll be honest would rather see them get a full youth team game or go out on loan. Eventually people will also clock on that Phil Foden is getting zero development at City too doing the same exact thing.

 

[Ban]

Me too, I'd hope he integrates at least Greenwood. I was surprised at his omission from Saturday, partly because I felt he can't do worse than Pereira as a minimum.

Similar with Tuanzebe. It Lindelof will continue his poor form I'm sure Tuanzebe will step in.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You are 100% deluded.

You haven't been able to provide a single example to back yourself up. Just silly hypotheticals like Pep and some imaginary 10 time CL winner, meanwhile myself and others have provided plenty of examples of modern managers with great previous achievements who have been fecked off out of clubs the moment they went to shit.

Football is a results driven game, especially when it's now a multi billion $$$ industry and there's no room for sentiment or past achievements when results are costing you money.

 

[roonster09]

If your not throwing them into the first team how are you giving them a chance. It just looks good. Signing a 21 year old who is clearly of a level to play I.e. AWB is not giving youth a chance. Same goes for claiming he’s playing Martial. I mean he’s 23 been playing here from 19. LVG have youth a chance Tyler Blackett actually started games. Chong and Greenwood get 5 pathetic minutes if that a game where I’ll be honest would rather see them get a full youth team game or go out on loan. Eventually people will also clock on that Phil Foden is getting zero development at City too doing the same exact thing.

Is the season over? No. we have played just 4 games. Not sure what's the point of checking how many mins youngsters like Greenwood, Gomes played.

Also focusing on youth doesn't just mean promoting players from academy. We have reduced the age in so many positions including the bench. That's what focusing on youth means, not just promoting academy players. We have also done that. They are promoted to squad positions for now, if they play well, they will be first team players.

Again, it's just 4 games, silly to go on and on about how many are promoted or how many mins they played.