Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
Because you never blamed him for any of our problems, just the board and Woodward.
With Ole you're full on blaming him, I haven't even seen a mention of the board and Woodward from you.
Yeah Steve Bruce and Mark Hughes might be as well.
You haven’t seen me blame Woodward and the board? Are you having a laugh? Woodward can be shite and Ole also cannot be good enough as well. He was the fecking Molde manager.
No, my argument has been spelled out numerous times on here, which is that what the likes of yourself and many others are totally missing the context of a shockingly bad transfer window by the board which has rendered an already not for purpose squad to be even more depleted with nowhere near the correct level of investment.
Pogba is played in the double pivot because (while Fred is persona non grata) the alternative is Matic. Need I say anymore?
Lukaku wasn't our best striker and was ill fitting to the style that Ole wants to play. It also wasn't helpful that he was an unprofessional twat who was a rotten presence and influence in the dressing room.
Ole, in Herrera's own words, didn't want Herrera to leave but it was too late to do anything about it because the club had already pissed him off long before Ole came in.
I didn't see many glum faces when Fellaini left, even among his backers, on here and online. Even so, the departures were much needed. The incomings are on the board. Ole identified numerous players, and literally said a replacement was needed if Lukaku left. Neither materialised. Do you blame Ole for that, or the negotiating team, whose job it is?
I suggest you watch the games again if you think that what you wrote is anywhere near correct. We do press well, we defend much better as a unit, and we do get into good attacking positions. The final pass/shot lets us down, and we do make mistakes in both attack and defence, which is par for the course when you have one of the youngest squads in the league, and have consistently fielded the youngest team in the league since the season started. Having a young team means that there will be games when things don't come off. Rooney and Ronaldo had so many patchy games and months in their first two seasons together and they had a stellar team to grow into.
It's not so much you that I have an issue with, it's others who are absolutely disrespectful. You compare it to what these same people were saying in his interim thread and it makes for pathetic reading. These people don't want Ole to succeed because it would mean that they'd have to climb down on the high horse that they have got themselves on.
I don't think I've ever said that my view is the only view either, and I've said multiple times that I am more than willing to consider that Ole might not be the right man for the job, but only time will tell if that is indeed the case - not 3 games which could quite easily have gone the other way and not during a start to the season where literally every team in the top 6 bar City and Liverpool are just as inconsistent as us.
I also believe that my role as a supporter is to do this funny thing called support. Others on the other hand, are losing their shit because the team isn't winning. They have also made up their minds and won't give Ole any credit when things do go well. They'd rather win an argument on an internet forum than see the team do well, which again, is pretty pathetic.
I do draw the line on their support being valid. It isn't support. They are relentlessly negative and only want to bask in the glory of supporting a big team. The matchday threads are testament to this, and mocks your view that "everyone is 100% supportive on match days". Like I've said before, they aren't supporters, they're consumers.
It's fine to draw on the negatives after a poor result, but within time, I'd hope that you'd also look at the positives and what we'd actually done well. You'd also consider the context of looking at a depleted squad which is one of the youngest in the league, and that with such a young team peaks and troughs are expected and that with the lack of board backing in the summer, there isn't much any manager would do different with such a squad. If you don't consider all that, and only focus on the negatives, then you're no better than the ones I'm talking about if I'm being completely honest.
People keep saying this but we had 2 previous managers who'd been at the top level and the biggest clubs in Europe and failed miserably in the end (although Jose did at least have two decent seasons before his implosion) so what the feck does it even matter where they come from?
Moyes wasn't good enough, LvG wasn't good enough, Mourinho wasn't good enough (once his third season syndrome tried to set in) and Ole probably isn't good enough. That's all that matters. Using their past glories or failures to justify one over the other is pointless.
Sure it's 7 wins in 17? I counted 6 wins in 17.
May 4 vs Brighton - Loss
May 10 vs West Ham - Draw
May 13 vs Watford - Win
May 19 vs Chelsea - Loss
Aug 10 vs Leicester - Win
Aug 19 vs Brighton - Loss
Aug 27 vs Spurs - Loss
Sept 2 vs Burnley - Win
Sept 15 vs Watford - win
Sept 19 vs Young Boys - Win
Sept 22 vs Wolves - Draw
Sept 25 vs Derby - Loss (on Penalties)
Sept 29 vs West Ham - Loss
Oct 2 vs Valencia - Draw
Oct 6 Vs Newcastle - Win
Oct 20 Vs Chelsea - Draw
Oct 23 vs Juventus - Loss
And this is with the team he built and trained for 2.5 years.
This is the worst logic I keep seeing posted on this forum. Maybe we should hire a manager from league 2 next.
Exactly. Whether Ole is fecking Molde manager or Jose was champions league winning manager means feck all, it's what they achieve for ManUtd counts. In the grand scheme Jose wasn't good enough, Van Gaal wasnt good enough and maybe Ole won't be good enough too. We are just 4 games into the season, lets see how the season progresses.
Well done, can't beat my argument on its merits so you resort to pithy, sarcastic replies.I really did try to read this. Really did!!!
In time he will be sacked and we can discuss what went wrong. You can judge my consumer views against your top red views.
U do u hun x
So 1 point from those 3 games!? Dear lord, dead man walking!
You have no merits which is clear and why you can’t answer a simple question as to why you think Ole is doing a good job. Except for removing the deadwood. A bit odd that he can remove players but can’t get them in. Yet another half arsed job.
But like I said we will talk again once he gets shacked. One things guaranteed he’ll be lucky to win 1 out of our next 3 games.
He just loves to moan, doesn't he.
You pretty much completely missed the point there.
No I haven't.
Exactly, and they have god's gift to football managing them, so why is everyone so quick to proclaim we're finished already for the season? Those two penalty misses would have completed changed the landscape of all these threads if they'd just been converted!
I see no progress so far. Lets see what happens in the next months. I personally do not think he is good enough to manage any top club.
Aww babe, you didn't even ask why I thought Ole was doing a good job? Can't exactly read your mind, can I?
I've said numerous times he's doing as well as any manager can be expected to do with such a shit squad which had so many holes within it before he joined and which has been depleted further. Ole can choose the players he wants to go and also choose the players he wants in. If Ole is in charge of discussions with the players' agents/reps then by all means lay the blame at his door. But here's the mental thing: he doesn't.
Can you believe that? A football manager not in charge of negotiating salaries and transfer fees! Can't believe it's not something that's more widely known(!)
Seriously, at first I thought you were just blinkered; now I realise I've just competed in the Special Olympics by engaging in this argument with you; someone who's patently not very clever or coherent in his opinions.
Have a nice day sniffing glue, or licking windows, or whatever it is you do to pass the time.
you're talking about hiring a manager. I'm talking about a manager we've already hired. There is a big difference.
It doesn't what your previous credentials are if you're a failure.
So much self righteousness. Nauseating.
Even worse!
And your last point is a good one. That's pretty shocking stuff all in all. is it actually any better than our last 17 under Ole when taken into account?
Your argument is that managers before him have failed so it doesn't matter if he has no pedigree?
We played Arsenal away
Wolves away twice
ManCity and Chelsea at home
Barca and PSG twice.
Chelsea at home again this season.
We should have done better but this run in is by far the tougher than the one Jose faced.
Exactly this.
No my argument is that it's pointless to cite a manager's previous achievements at clubs as a reason to be more forgiving of them when they've failed. If you fail then it doesn't matter what the hell you've achieved before.
There is a bigger reason to defend a manager that is struggling if they have pedigree. You can use Poch as a current example. That's the point. You keep asking me why someone would be harder on Ole, that's the answer.
What pressing? Our pressing is so random and incohesive that I sometimes scratch my head to think are they even shown how to press or just being told to run like headless chickens towards the player who has the ball. All our pressing during preseason is nowhere to be seen since the start of the campaign.
Also if he is not happy with the squad, he has to call it out in a subtle way rather than bleating the company line.
How exactly, how do you call the squad out, tell how shit they are and face the in training tomorrow?
It's crazy, when Jose was doing it it was throwing the players under the bus, now Ole us positive in front of the press he should take his steps and shit on the team.
Just clocked on you’ve been trying to be funny.
So Ole is losing games because he doesn’t negotiate transfer fee’s. I’ll leave that with you to sink in.
It's a bit of a stupid answer though.
If we signed a manager who won a million league titles but came here and failed, his past credentials shouldn't help him.
Otherwise we might as well have kept the likes of Sanchez and Mourinho before just sitting back and waiting for them to maybe turn it around.
The only thing that should matter if a manager is struggling with results is whether the board believe he has the right ideas/can turn it around or not, not that he won loads of trophies years ago.
Pochettino has a worse record than Ole in the last 17 pl games and Zidane has a record of 8 wins, 6 draws and 7 defeats in 21 games in his 2nd stint at Madrid.
The point is not that Ole is a better manager than Zidane or Poch but that even supposedly good managers go through bad patches and their team’s look equally clueless during those runs. To call one manager clueless, naive, incompetent while raving about the others seems insincere.
Only time can tell whether Ole deserves to be mentioned alongside the other 2 but for me, it is too soon to pass a judgement that he definitely doesn’t.
The point is not that Ole is a better manager than Zidane or Poch but that even supposedly good managers go through bad patches and their team’s look equally clueless during those runs. To call one manager clueless, naive, incompetent while raving about the others seems insincere.
Only time can tell whether Ole deserves to be mentioned alongside the other 2 but for me, it is too soon to pass a judgement that he definitely doesn’t.
Flip reverse why is Solskjaer’s ‘legend’ status helping him. All I keep hearing is I don’t want to blame Ole. Why the hell not.
It isn't, plenty of people are slating Ole.
Solskjaer shouldn't be protected because he was a player, just as Jose shouldn't have been protected because he won the league with a different team, it's not a "flip reverse" it's the same thing.
So when someone is struggling their past credentials count for nothing? They have no leverage? They have the same leverage as someone who has proven nothing? How does that make sense.
No, what you did before you came to United doesn't matter, what matters is what the manager does with their time at the club.
If Jose (as much as I like him) spends hundreds of millions, pulls a tanty and wastes half a season, his previous work shouldn't save him.
It makes perfect sense, the idea that you should keep a manager because he was good elsewhere is idiotic.
It would be like keeping Lukaku because he scored goals at Everton, despite looking poor during his time here.
No you don't but you also look at what he has achieved in the past before you hire him. Otherwise all the top clubs will be led by rookie managers who has no experience in managing a top club. Only Chelsea and United are led by managers who have no top level management or coaching experience. We know that Roman is pissed off because his work permit has been cancelled and he now an Israeli citizen. He probably may give up on Chelsea.
I remember the England job being described by Sir Alex as a “poisoned chalice”
I’d say that’s now true of the United job. I can’t see why any top manager takes it. I’d give Olé at least 2 full seasons provided we show improvement
I’d say that’s now true of the United job. I can’t see why any top manager takes it. I’d give Olé at least 2 full seasons provided we show improvement
I am not talking about saving anyone. The person asked why someone would react differently to a bad run under Jose, compared to a bad run under Ole. You can currently use Poch and Ole as an example. The reaction is different for Poch compared to Ole for a reason.
I know I read what you'd wrote before I replied, your reasoning is wrong no matter who you use as an example.
If Poch struggles this season and finishes out of champions league places, his 'pedigree' shouldn't give him leverage.
The main reason why the reaction is different with Poch and Ole is the clubs they manage.
You're puddled if you think Poch would just get away with half a season of bad form at United.
It's an answer that makes no sense, really. If a manager is failing at their current job then what the feck is the point in highlighting what they've done before to defend them?
if you had an employee at work who was shit at the job, but they said to you "yeah but look at my CV, surely that means I deserve to stay!", would you keep them? Or would you fire them because they're shit at their damn job?
- Status