Why are we still talking about Mourinho? His failure has no relevance to Solkjaer's performance or our current run. Though I give him the benefit of the doubt til he brings in players and has a pre season with the squad I think it's fair to have concerns over Ole.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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No, you are not allowed to have concerns. We must have a pre season first!
Bit rich complaining about performance when you backed Jose and still back Jose who made us play some of the shittiest games.
Again same nonsense. He got what we wanted, failed to create a team and then moaned about it.
In case you missed, we played best football when Pogba was moved higher up the pitch and played with intensity. Again thanks for Jose and his fitness methods, our players were all injured and we are back to Joseball.
Exactly. He got almost entire first 11, breaking records to sign those players. He failed miserably to build a team and then kept on moaning about everything. The preseason till the time he was sacked was the darkest period since SAF was sacked.
People are in for a rude awakening when the high intensity doesn’t last a full season. If people think that a pre season is the answer then they are living in hope rather than being logical.
Mourinho is responsible for the gap between us and City/Liverpool. That man spent more for lukaku as klopp did for mane and salah combined. He has no shame. It'll take a bit more time to completely wipe his stain from the club.
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I wouldn't put the blame entirely on Mourinho. LvG's signings played a huge role.
Mourinho was culpable as he was highly paid and yet underperformed, but the players he signed, like Pogba/Lindelof/Bailly/Lukaku, while not world class (except Pogba), were far better than Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger etc. Mourinho had only one true flop - Sanchez while LvG had only one signing who delivered a bit - Martial. Maybe Blind at a stretch.
Unfortunately, Liverpool and City were spot on in signing instant impact players while Mourinho's signings weren't at that level (again, with the exception of Pogba).
Blame Jose for underperforming, but don't pin the entirety of the club's woes on him. That's on Woodward.
You cannot put it all on Jose, he's gone and Ole is responsible for this team now. It's not as simple as playing Pogba higher or fitness (although we definitely are not fit enough). Lately Smalling has been in the team more, because of this we sit a good 10-15 yards yards deeper because he isn't comfortable with the high line and is a hindrance on the ball. Same goes for Young. Both them and certain other players constantly keep their place no matter how shit they play. He could select others but does not, that is on him. His bad substitutions are on him. His poor in game management is on him. These things are not as a result of anything Mourinho has done either.
As I said I am giving Ole the benefit of the doubt but you cannot excuse him for everything and you cannot use arguments like "Mourinho fault >:^(" to invalidate others who have concerns.
The ones who'll be in for a rude awakening are the ones who are naive enough to think after one pre season a team can play high intensity football for entire season, it took klopp 2 seasons even then they were tiring around 70 mins.
We have people on here who think couple of months is enough to sustain any sort of intensity after the sleep walking crap we had before.
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This is still very much Jose and LVG's team.
Ole cannot be held accountable for the state of it.
Agreed, but he can still be held accountable for winning just 2 from our last 10.
Interesting that he said he will have the final say on players coming in and players leaving. Puts a bit more pressure on him I feel, no one to blame the mistakes on, takes pressure off Woodward.
Haram is Mourinho! That must be it. How you can say Mourinho wasnt backed and say the only difference between Utd and City was 16 points is ridiculous. The play, the style, tactics all much better than Mourinhos Utd. We were in 7th place 11 points off the top 4 when he was sacked. I dread to think where we would be if he hadnt have had the boot.
Its even worse then that.
I think what he meant is he will have the final say on outs. He wanted Martial out and even Pogba benched but Woodward refused. Since he cannot merely say "outs" he is also adding "ins". Truth is, he had the final say on all incomings here.
Also, that would be a very difficult set-up for him to find now. No club gives full power to the manager nowadays.
How are Liverpool, City, Leeds, Ajax and Barcelona still all managing to do it then? Even Tottenham to a degree.
We don't have the players to do it, that's the difference.
Eerily similar quality to some of those players and our fringe first teamers.
Interesting comments from OGS, it seems he had a major say on who got new contracts and is advocating for Juan Mata to stay as well. It also appears he is more than fine with going along with the same process of keeping players on the squad who shouldn't be on it. My biggest fear with OGS was that he would not push hard enough against the board and their shit decisions such as keeping these type of players on and it seems to be the case. I have stated this previously in this topic but I just don't think this job is for him nor will he be able to handle it.
Like I have previously mentioned, if we wanted him to be our manager we should of hired him after SAF retired instead of Moyes. That way he would of gotten a few years to learn the job and grow into the role as well.
Like I have previously mentioned, if we wanted him to be our manager we should of hired him after SAF retired instead of Moyes. That way he would of gotten a few years to learn the job and grow into the role as well.
Missed the point entirely. Well done.
That is true. However, what people seem to be in denial about is that there was a very clear reason why things ended up the way they did.
It was nothing to do with the third season. That was just a coincidence.
The reason why was that the club simply didn’t have the same ambition as Jose. Having got us to 2nd he knew that the squad wasn't good enough to progress but was not supported.
Any top manager would have been frustrated and Jose is not someone who hides his feelings.
So who is accountable for the last 10 performances. The buck stops with the manager.
He showed nothing worthy of being supported.
He should have been sacked on the spot following his disgraceful comments after the Sevilla game.
We progressively got worse under him after that great start in 2017.
For Ole, buck stops with manager, for Jose let's give more excuses and ignore that he was the one who built this team.
Completely incorrect.
If you had read my previous comments you would see that I accepted that it was time for Jose to go.
Asked and answered above.
The squad that Ole inherited from Jose is hands down much better than what Jose inherited from LVG. We've seen the squad hit heights under Ole that hasn't been seen since Fergie but it has also bottomed out to depths that at minimum, are equal terms with Jose and Moyes. The only difference is that many supporters are giving Ole the benefit of the doubt in terms of it's the players, not manager. Ole's not an arse or completely deluded like Jose or Moyes. LVG's approach, which I applaud him for having one and stubbornly sticking to it, wasn't quite good enough for a sustainable period of time.
The form that the squad has plummeted to the past couple months is nothing short of appalling. Every one is accountable for the downturn.
The challenge now for Ole and staff is to build upon what they have. The cupboard isn't bare, far from it. There are still major holes in the squad, which frankly weren't addressed the previous summer under Jose (for whatever reasons, that's not the point) and now there are holes on top of the major holes. That is all on Woodward and the lack of structure, commitment to an approach on how the squad is to be developed/created in relation to competing for the league and major honors.
If it's any consolation, I'm laughing as I'm reading it as well...
You seem utterly incapable of actually grasping the simple chain of events, and are still, despite being proven otherwise, trying to insist that I personally have been changing my mind "every few matches".
Likewise, you won't apply the same philosophy to the guy who's actually managing your club...
You've nailed your colours to the mast incredibly loudly, lets see how it pans out for you
Thank you, some actual, sensible reality.
Here's the problem with the first bold part. Young/Smalling/Jones/Fellaini/Valencia/Rojo etc were not going to be sold. He had 4 windows to build a team but still those players were on the first team sheet and potentially he was going to sell pogba and martial and bring in inter/chelsea old boys (according to reports). Funnily enough even when jose had money to spend, he neglected key positions which needed quality players which was further highlighted with bringing a young rb (when we needed a Experienced one) and fred (who he wasn't going to play until he got a CB
) and add Old boys from inter/chelsea. How is that adding quality by buying average players? Unless you're telling me he would have also got rid of our deadwood and replaced them with better players which he didn't do previously in the 4 windows he had.
He doesn't hide his feeling, thats for sure. Never seen a manager blame everyone else for his faults and when things got hard, he went on full coward mode and got his pay day at the end.
Just curious, You support Bristol Rovers but refer to United as "us". Second team?
You cut out half my reply because it made you look silly.If it's any consolation, I'm laughing as I'm reading it as well...
You seem utterly incapable of actually grasping the simple chain of events, and are still, despite being proven otherwise, trying to insist that I personally have been changing my mind "every few matches".
Likewise, you won't apply the same philosophy to the guy who's actually managing your club...
You've nailed your colours to the mast incredibly loudly, lets see how it pans out for you
As for nailing my colours to the mast, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
The chain of events are you doubting Ole, saying he should be given the job, then flip flopping all within the space of two months.
I'll say again, go down swinging, youre just making it funnier.
You really don't get it do you? I trimmed out some of the rubbish and quoted what I was actually replying to...
A reply that you've again either not understood, or simply glossed over to try and defend your own ego - it's tedious, and it's derailing the thread.
If you wanna continue the back and forth, do it in PM to me.
The players???
So, do the players get the sole credit for the PSG win? For the 'bounce' phase?
It can't work both ways.
Some of the players have been poor in the last ten matches, and Ole has made some strange decisions.
I think the main problem is the playing staff as a whole, rather than individuals (bar Young)
We switched our game to apply more pressure; which was always going to eventually wear our players down.
Losing Herrera, as well as a few others to injuries, coupled with playing some quality teams was always going to undo us.
We need to improve our fitness, and bring in players with more composure, then I think we'll improve.
I think the main problem is the playing staff as a whole, rather than individuals (bar Young)
We switched our game to apply more pressure; which was always going to eventually wear our players down.
Losing Herrera, as well as a few others to injuries, coupled with playing some quality teams was always going to undo us.
We need to improve our fitness, and bring in players with more composure, then I think we'll improve.
Erm, yes, they do, they played brilliantly for a period of time and now they're acting like slapped arses again. Solskjær can only prepare them for the game but once they cross that white line it's completely on them to execute his tactical plan to win it, and I will 110% guarantee his plan doesn't involve 'hardly run' and 'give the ball away at every opportunity'.
Whether or not Solskjær has what it takes to out smart opposition managers, time will only tell, but judging him on a squad that isn't is, with players that are clearly done is fecking well harsh. It's like your boss judging you on the work the bloke did before you got the job.
Yes but it was still his job to get the best out of that squad and motivate them not throw his toys out of the pram because he didn’t get what he wanted. He took the piss out of the club and it’s history.
He Took out his anxieties and frustrations on the players and it backfired badly. I don’t care about how great a manager he used to be or any crap about the club not sharing his ambition. I’m glad the miserable Cnut is out of a club that was never right for him.
How would that happen if you are calling for him to be sacked rather than wait and see.
Completely agree with this. You (@Rhyme Animal) are the one who "didn't want him in first place", "changed my mind after PSG", "change again after 10 games", "will change again if we keep winning next season"
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If he turns it round then obviously my calls for him to be replaced by a different manager would've been wrong.
If by Christmas we're in the mix (lets say 8 points off the top), I will gladly (again) concede that I was wrong about Ole being good enough.
I've already done that once, remember? I have no problem in saying, 'I got it wrong'.
Lets wait and see, and hope that's the case.
Seems to me you want it both ways, as long as it means OGS is at fault.
He changed things up and the succeeded with this squad for a lot longer than any kind of "new manager bounce." Then the tactics caught up with the fitness of the squad he had inherited. No amount of tactical change could overcome the combination of injuries and more difficult fixtures. I'm not sure what magic you think any manager could have pulled off given the situation. Personally, I think the true nature of the many of the players started coming out when they got back in the running for top four and Ole started making not-so-thinly-veiled comments on summer transfer plans.
Yet with only two games remaining, against two of the three bottom teams in the league, a top four finish is still mathematically possible.
So back him till you feel completely justified that he is the wrong person to lead the club rather than calling for him to be sacked now, when you aren't sure yourself that it will be the right decision.
The whole point is to give him proper time. Not half a season mid season. Nothing this season includes judging him fairly. He needs time to sell players he doesnt want, bring in those he wants, and show improvements with things he has control over. That's how you know you're heading in the right direction. Not if things get worse with every pre-season/transfer window.
You also have to be realistic. We arent going to compete for the title next year. It doesnt work like that. City got to 100 points last year and will be at 98 this year. Liverpool 97 this year. They are years ahead of us in terms of their development and no manager, no transfers we could possibly make could get us up there. Their players are all at their peaks. A perfect transfer window for us would still have our most senior starting attacking player being 23 years old. It would still have half our starting 11 being brand new. Our squad just flat out isnt ready yet for the next step, even if we have a perfect transfer window. Another year of development as a team, then sure. But not right away. That's why it's important to watch the games, see how the team progresses, see how the managers changes impact the team and see what is the reason for anything that seems to go bad.
Take Mourinho for example. Things started going bad for us under Mourinho because of a severe unbalance in the squad, going after the wrong type of players, going after older targets who only last 1 year like Ibra, matic, Sanchez, and ignoring proper investment in key positions where we lack quality options (CB, right back, right wing). That led to us falling behind (also his playing style and personal demeanor being the wrong ones for this club didnt help). Or this season under Ole. He made a few changes, we saw huge improvements. Players couldnt physically withstand a more aggressive, pressing style of play, started dropping like flies, showed signs of fatigue and we couldnt keep it up in second halves. He wasnt asking for some unheard of work rate. Under Mourinho we were bottom of the league pretty much in work rate. Can anyone blame Ole for joining mid season and the players not being able to handle a more intense style? Because that's why we also fell off in the past 2 months, combined with fixtures against straight up better sides.
Next season, sure, start judging him. Being overly critical of anything this season just isnt right though IMO, because he hasn't had the slightest chance turn the squad around. Having a manager and sacking them before they get a summer to do something to the squad is as stupid and unfair as it gets, so patience is just needed.
You also have to be realistic. We arent going to compete for the title next year. It doesnt work like that. City got to 100 points last year and will be at 98 this year. Liverpool 97 this year. They are years ahead of us in terms of their development and no manager, no transfers we could possibly make could get us up there. Their players are all at their peaks. A perfect transfer window for us would still have our most senior starting attacking player being 23 years old. It would still have half our starting 11 being brand new. Our squad just flat out isnt ready yet for the next step, even if we have a perfect transfer window. Another year of development as a team, then sure. But not right away. That's why it's important to watch the games, see how the team progresses, see how the managers changes impact the team and see what is the reason for anything that seems to go bad.
Take Mourinho for example. Things started going bad for us under Mourinho because of a severe unbalance in the squad, going after the wrong type of players, going after older targets who only last 1 year like Ibra, matic, Sanchez, and ignoring proper investment in key positions where we lack quality options (CB, right back, right wing). That led to us falling behind (also his playing style and personal demeanor being the wrong ones for this club didnt help). Or this season under Ole. He made a few changes, we saw huge improvements. Players couldnt physically withstand a more aggressive, pressing style of play, started dropping like flies, showed signs of fatigue and we couldnt keep it up in second halves. He wasnt asking for some unheard of work rate. Under Mourinho we were bottom of the league pretty much in work rate. Can anyone blame Ole for joining mid season and the players not being able to handle a more intense style? Because that's why we also fell off in the past 2 months, combined with fixtures against straight up better sides.
Next season, sure, start judging him. Being overly critical of anything this season just isnt right though IMO, because he hasn't had the slightest chance turn the squad around. Having a manager and sacking them before they get a summer to do something to the squad is as stupid and unfair as it gets, so patience is just needed.
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