Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[The Hilton]

You what? Did we eclipse 82 points?

It’s quite possible? No it’s just clear he isn’t the man and that’s the point what are we waiting for? Who’s is this man walking out of lake Minnetonka to take us to trophies. You’d think we are watching a Star Wars movie.

We could have improved with any manager with his budget spend. That’s not how it works. This isn’t your year review at work. This is a high established football club.

This season we finished 12 points behind the winners. When we hit 82 points we finished 19 points behind the leaders. So yes this season is the closest we've been to the title, objectively.

We couldn't have improved with any manager with his budget spend, as all our previous managers post Fergie had similar budgets and made a right mess of things. I dunno what Star Wars or Lake Minnetonka have to do with anything, but Ole has improved us every season, and has earned the opportunity to try to improve us again next season. If we don't continue the trend next season, (semi -> final -> win, 3rd -> 2nd -> 1st, etc) then it'll be time to look elsewhere.

 

[bosnian_red]

There's no other way to put it than he froze last night. So strange the way he used the squad and refused to make a sub, when he knows full well how invaluable fresh legs can be, considering he was an impact sub for large parts of his career. Sir Alex in 1999 took off Yorke who scored 29 goals that season, and Cole who scored 24 goals that season to bring in Ole (18 goals) and Sheringham (5 goals all year), who both scored the goals in the CL final. Sometimes you just have to take risks to change something, even if it means taking off your main players for lesser squad players. Ole froze last night and failed to change anything even as it was obvious we were starting to lose the control we had early in the 2nd half.

 

[bsCallout]

I still love you Ole.

 

[Handré1990]

You what? Did we eclipse 82 points?

It’s quite possible? No it’s just clear he isn’t the man and that’s the point what are we waiting for? Who’s is this man walking out of lake Minnetonka to take us to trophies. You’d think we are watching a Star Wars movie.

We could have improved with any manager with his budget spend. That’s not how it works. This isn’t your year review at work. This is a high established football club.

Ole still hasn't achieved what Mourinho has though. Second with 80+ points, European Cup. Dont think he ever will either.

You might both be right (probably not) but to be clear, 12 points is closer than 19. Which is the fabulous amount we finished behind City in Mou’s legendary 81 point season. He also didn’t win the EL in that same season.

It matters not, he wasn’t good enough for us anyway as hindsight shows, but every time you use this as a barometer to measure success or not, you lose a little bit of credibility.

 

[el_loco_bielsa]

I’ve put this post in the end of season review thread, but I‘m just going to cut/paste it here simply because it belongs here as much as it does in the other thread:

As a somewhat dispassionate observer and having watched my own side go through decades in the wilderness after a prolonged period of success not dissimilar to united’s travails post Ferguson, just a few points -

1) last night’s game was a collective failure not to dispatch Villarreal in normal time rather than anything to do with de gea’s inability to save penalties which is guff - as the Swiss ramble points out, this is truly David vs Goliath stuff with Utd having quadruple or more Villarreal’s turnover, wage bill, squad value etc.

2) the answer absolutely isn’t to spend hundreds of millions seeking marginal gains on the right wing or in midfield or in defence by buying a sancho or a Kane or a grealish. That’s just lazy and basically a game of roulette throwing good money after bad and hoping some of it sticks.

3) You have plenty of world class or potentially world class players that a number of top managers would be licking their lips at having the opportunity to work with - rashford, martial, greenwood, cavani, fernandes, pogba, de gea, maguire all fall into this category. Only Fernandes and cavani are playing at what would be considered par for their level.

4) around these players you have a number of pretty decent players who would sure as hell be elevated if they were playing for a coach who could extract the maximum and have a coherent plan - fred, mctominay, shaw etc are exactly the sort of tenacious players with a modicum of skill who’d be a mainstay in a decent klopp side for example.

5) the glaring weak link here is your manager. I recognise this isn’t a popular opinion on here, but having ole as your manager is like us playing Rhys Williams in defence, midfield and attack and hoping to make it work. It just won’t. He’s far below the level of the players he’s coaching and whatever progress you’ve seen is purely down to the individual skill of your world class players rather than any coherent plan.

6) it would be criminal negligence if your owners aren’t looking to upgrade your manager when the likes of conte are available. The upgrade from Greenwood or martial to Sancho will be a few more goals or assists and will cost you nearly £100m. The upgrade from OGS to conte revolutionises the club, tactical setup, playing environment etc and costs precisely zero.

 

[bsCallout]

I’ve put this post in the end of season review thread, but I‘m just going to cut/paste it here simply because it belongs here as much as it does in the other thread:

As a somewhat dispassionate observer and having watched my own side go through decades in the wilderness after a prolonged period of success not dissimilar to united’s travails post Ferguson, just a few points -

1) last night’s game was a collective failure not to dispatch Villarreal in normal time rather than anything to do with de gea’s inability to save penalties which is guff - as the Swiss ramble points out, this is truly David vs Goliath stuff with Utd having quadruple or more Villarreal’s turnover, wage bill, squad value etc.

2) the answer absolutely isn’t to spend hundreds of millions seeking marginal gains on the right wing or in midfield or in defence by buying a sancho or a Kane or a grealish. That’s just lazy and basically a game of roulette throwing good money after bad and hoping some of it sticks.

3) You have plenty of world class or potentially world class players that a number of top managers would be licking their lips at having the opportunity to work with - rashford, martial, greenwood, cavani, fernandes, pogba, de gea, maguire all fall into this category. Only Fernandes and cavani are playing at what would be considered par for their level.

4) around these players you have a number of pretty decent players who would sure as hell be elevated if they were playing for a coach who could extract the maximum and have a coherent plan - fred, mctominay, shaw etc are exactly the sort of tenacious players with a modicum of skill who’d be a mainstay in a decent klopp side for example.

5) the glaring weak link here is your manager. I recognise this isn’t a popular opinion on here, but having ole as your manager is like us playing Rhys Williams in defence, midfield and attack and hoping to make it work. It just won’t. He’s far below the level of the players he’s coaching and whatever progress you’ve seen is purely down to the individual skill of your world class players rather than any coherent plan.

6) it would be criminal negligence if your owners aren’t looking to upgrade your manager when the likes of conte are available. The upgrade from Greenwood or martial to Sancho will be a few more goals or assists and will cost you nearly £100m. The upgrade from OGS to conte revolutionises the club, tactical setup, playing environment etc and costs precisely zero.

Why do opponent fans come on a United forum?

 

[Mainoldo]

You might both be right (probably not) but to be clear, 12 points is closer than 19. Which is the fabulous amount we finished behind City in Mou’s legendary 81 point season. He also didn’t win the EL in that same season.

It matters not, he wasn’t good enough for us anyway as hindsight shows, but every time you use this as a barometer to measure success or not, you lose a little bit of credibility.

So because we finished closer to the leaders it now means we are better? Well maybe that team we finished behind was just better than the team we are currently trying to complete with. Which probably explains why a club to dethrone them had to literally get close to 100 points to do it.

Credibility? Your argument is literally this team is less shite because even though though their point total meant they performed worst than the current team it’s okay as the gap was closer?

 

[dove]

I’ve put this post in the end of season review thread, but I‘m just going to cut/paste it here simply because it belongs here as much as it does in the other thread:

As a somewhat dispassionate observer and having watched my own side go through decades in the wilderness after a prolonged period of success not dissimilar to united’s travails post Ferguson, just a few points -

1) last night’s game was a collective failure not to dispatch Villarreal in normal time rather than anything to do with de gea’s inability to save penalties which is guff - as the Swiss ramble points out, this is truly David vs Goliath stuff with Utd having quadruple or more Villarreal’s turnover, wage bill, squad value etc.

2) the answer absolutely isn’t to spend hundreds of millions seeking marginal gains on the right wing or in midfield or in defence by buying a sancho or a Kane or a grealish. That’s just lazy and basically a game of roulette throwing good money after bad and hoping some of it sticks.

3) You have plenty of world class or potentially world class players that a number of top managers would be licking their lips at having the opportunity to work with - rashford, martial, greenwood, cavani, fernandes, pogba, de gea, maguire all fall into this category. Only Fernandes and cavani are playing at what would be considered par for their level.

4) around these players you have a number of pretty decent players who would sure as hell be elevated if they were playing for a coach who could extract the maximum and have a coherent plan - fred, mctominay, shaw etc are exactly the sort of tenacious players with a modicum of skill who’d be a mainstay in a decent klopp side for example.

5) the glaring weak link here is your manager. I recognise this isn’t a popular opinion on here, but having ole as your manager is like us playing Rhys Williams in defence, midfield and attack and hoping to make it work. It just won’t. He’s far below the level of the players he’s coaching and whatever progress you’ve seen is purely down to the individual skill of your world class players rather than any coherent plan.

6) it would be criminal negligence if your owners aren’t looking to upgrade your manager when the likes of conte are available. The upgrade from Greenwood or martial to Sancho will be a few more goals or assists and will cost you nearly £100m. The upgrade from OGS to conte revolutionises the club, tactical setup, playing environment etc and costs precisely zero.

Sad when oppo fan speaks more sense than some of our own.

 

[Champagne Football]

I'm very excited to see what Ole can do with Diallo/Garner/Mejbri and Van de Beek next season. 3 out of those 4 could be starters within a year or 2.

Ole will be hailed as a master when that happens.

Ole needs to get the summer window right though. Will be plenty of surprises I'd say. Wouldn't be surprised to see him bring in an experienced DM on the cheap such as Idrissa Gueye, as PSG would sell him if they land Camavinga.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You might both be right (probably not) but to be clear, 12 points is closer than 19. Which is the fabulous amount we finished behind City in Mou’s legendary 81 point season. He also didn’t win the EL in that same season.

It matters not, he wasn’t good enough for us anyway as hindsight shows, but every time you use this as a barometer to measure success or not, you lose a little bit of credibility.

Here we go, lets come up with a new excuse for Ole, its now not how many points we finish on, its how many points off to who ever is first.. keep coming up with the excuses they never end.
And I didnt say he won it in that season. But at least he won a European trophy and a domestic cup.

 

[iHicksy]

Let me start by saying I love Ole for what he's done off the pitch since he's come in. In my head he's a 50% manager. He's mastered half of the job, one that is equally as important to being the United manager as the other half. This is why I want to give him another full season. He's done things that very few other managers could do, he's improved the mentality of the squad - the way we've come back from going down in games is proof of this. Yet, he falls at the final hurdle(s). He's made the players know what it means to play for Manchester United and his man management appears from the outside, to be second to none.

His greatest strength however, is also his greatest failing. He's chosen to emulate Fergie in his coaching style. Being very hands off and putting people in key positions whom he trusts. He's based these choices on these men being United men rather than perhaps being the best people for the job. He's kept on an ex pro with no coaching experience at the top level, and a youth coach with no experience at the top level.

The only man on the coaching staff with any experience is Phelan. Now, for those that remember post MClaren and Queiroz, Phelon under Fergie saw some of the worst football i've seen under SAF (the final two seasons) when he was first team coach. He was sporting director at central coast mariners when Ole called him in. If Ole wants to take us back to the top and continues to emulate SAF in his later years, with his hands off training style, then we are going to need a world class coaching staff. If Ole can't see that we rely too much on individuals to win games then he's going to end up getting sacked sooner or later. Which, would be a shame. Because, we need a manager who instills the same values that SAF did. You need mental resilience and the right kind of mentality and protection which Ole offers. But at some point, you need the results to match.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I’ve put this post in the end of season review thread, but I‘m just going to cut/paste it here simply because it belongs here as much as it does in the other thread:

As a somewhat dispassionate observer and having watched my own side go through decades in the wilderness after a prolonged period of success not dissimilar to united’s travails post Ferguson, just a few points -

1) last night’s game was a collective failure not to dispatch Villarreal in normal time rather than anything to do with de gea’s inability to save penalties which is guff - as the Swiss ramble points out, this is truly David vs Goliath stuff with Utd having quadruple or more Villarreal’s turnover, wage bill, squad value etc.

2) the answer absolutely isn’t to spend hundreds of millions seeking marginal gains on the right wing or in midfield or in defence by buying a sancho or a Kane or a grealish. That’s just lazy and basically a game of roulette throwing good money after bad and hoping some of it sticks.

3) You have plenty of world class or potentially world class players that a number of top managers would be licking their lips at having the opportunity to work with - rashford, martial, greenwood, cavani, fernandes, pogba, de gea, maguire all fall into this category. Only Fernandes and cavani are playing at what would be considered par for their level.

4) around these players you have a number of pretty decent players who would sure as hell be elevated if they were playing for a coach who could extract the maximum and have a coherent plan - fred, mctominay, shaw etc are exactly the sort of tenacious players with a modicum of skill who’d be a mainstay in a decent klopp side for example.

5) the glaring weak link here is your manager. I recognise this isn’t a popular opinion on here, but having ole as your manager is like us playing Rhys Williams in defence, midfield and attack and hoping to make it work. It just won’t. He’s far below the level of the players he’s coaching and whatever progress you’ve seen is purely down to the individual skill of your world class players rather than any coherent plan.

6) it would be criminal negligence if your owners aren’t looking to upgrade your manager when the likes of conte are available. The upgrade from Greenwood or martial to Sancho will be a few more goals or assists and will cost you nearly £100m. The upgrade from OGS to conte revolutionises the club, tactical setup, playing environment etc and costs precisely zero.

I think anybody who is not blinded by the ex player legend manager thing knows very well all the above is spot on and so very obvious.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Well for starters Bayern do have that approach, so do City, and most of the clubs you mention are broke because of lacking that approach.

Besides, progress in good feelings is still progress, but so is making us the most consistent we've been since SAF retired.

Funny when you Olein guys mention Bayern in positive way. Bayern is just opposite to your view of football.
They sack managers after few defeats. They even sacked manager after he won double.
Their managers don't get time. Also their managers don't have freedom to do what they want. They must play on certain way or they are history. Bayern manager don't pick "his" squad. He plays with what he gets from club.
And Bayern manager is not bigger than players.
Personally, i don't like most of that but as one Bayern fan said to me here; "it works".

Progress? Are we new Arsenal? Look at this place last two years. We celebrate top 4 and say "meh" to cups. Under Jose and Lvg we demanded trophies.

The thing which i can't accept and why i am this much against Ole is that he totally lowered our standards. United 3 years without trophy, losing semis and finals and fans are happy and talking about progress? What progress? Progress to Spurs and Arsenal?

 

[b82REZ]

Why do opponent fans come on a United forum?

What's wrong with what they said?

 

[golden_blunder]

I'm not moaning. In fact I think we share very similar opinions (except on our attacking play of course).

There has been progress, but entering the third season is it honestly for the clubs best to give him longer, or are we veering into a vanity project in the hopes of a romantic story of an ex player returning us to glory.

I don't think there's a single fan on the forum who doesn't want him to succeed, but are we really seeing greenshoots, or is he simply not shitting the bed as bad as the last 3?

If we give him 200 mill this summer and he scrapes top 4 again is that enough? When are we as a fanbase going to demand silverware?

Realistically if he gets a 200m budget in the summer he should be bringing home some sort of silverware. So I guess that would be his acid test

 

[100]

I’ve put this post in the end of season review thread, but I‘m just going to cut/paste it here simply because it belongs here as much as it does in the other thread:

As a somewhat dispassionate observer and having watched my own side go through decades in the wilderness after a prolonged period of success not dissimilar to united’s travails post Ferguson, just a few points -

1) last night’s game was a collective failure not to dispatch Villarreal in normal time rather than anything to do with de gea’s inability to save penalties which is guff - as the Swiss ramble points out, this is truly David vs Goliath stuff with Utd having quadruple or more Villarreal’s turnover, wage bill, squad value etc.

2) the answer absolutely isn’t to spend hundreds of millions seeking marginal gains on the right wing or in midfield or in defence by buying a sancho or a Kane or a grealish. That’s just lazy and basically a game of roulette throwing good money after bad and hoping some of it sticks.

3) You have plenty of world class or potentially world class players that a number of top managers would be licking their lips at having the opportunity to work with - rashford, martial, greenwood, cavani, fernandes, pogba, de gea, maguire all fall into this category. Only Fernandes and cavani are playing at what would be considered par for their level.

4) around these players you have a number of pretty decent players who would sure as hell be elevated if they were playing for a coach who could extract the maximum and have a coherent plan - fred, mctominay, shaw etc are exactly the sort of tenacious players with a modicum of skill who’d be a mainstay in a decent klopp side for example.

5) the glaring weak link here is your manager. I recognise this isn’t a popular opinion on here, but having ole as your manager is like us playing Rhys Williams in defence, midfield and attack and hoping to make it work. It just won’t. He’s far below the level of the players he’s coaching and whatever progress you’ve seen is purely down to the individual skill of your world class players rather than any coherent plan.

6) it would be criminal negligence if your owners aren’t looking to upgrade your manager when the likes of conte are available. The upgrade from Greenwood or martial to Sancho will be a few more goals or assists and will cost you nearly £100m. The upgrade from OGS to conte revolutionises the club, tactical setup, playing environment etc and costs precisely zero.

Great post

 

[golden_blunder]

Ole still hasn't achieved what Mourinho has though. Second with 80+ points, European Cup. Dont think he ever will either.

We finished actually only 6 points of that 80, with only 6 defeats but 11draws. I bet we can all think of those draws and think “we should have won that one”

 

[bsCallout]

What's wrong with what they said?

I wasnt asking about what they said. I'm asking why opponent fans come into a United forum. I honestly don't get it.

 

[Denis Irwinning]

I’ve put this post in the end of season review thread, but I‘m just going to cut/paste it here simply because it belongs here as much as it does in the other thread:

As a somewhat dispassionate observer and having watched my own side go through decades in the wilderness after a prolonged period of success not dissimilar to united’s travails post Ferguson, just a few points -

1) last night’s game was a collective failure not to dispatch Villarreal in normal time rather than anything to do with de gea’s inability to save penalties which is guff - as the Swiss ramble points out, this is truly David vs Goliath stuff with Utd having quadruple or more Villarreal’s turnover, wage bill, squad value etc.

2) the answer absolutely isn’t to spend hundreds of millions seeking marginal gains on the right wing or in midfield or in defence by buying a sancho or a Kane or a grealish. That’s just lazy and basically a game of roulette throwing good money after bad and hoping some of it sticks.

3) You have plenty of world class or potentially world class players that a number of top managers would be licking their lips at having the opportunity to work with - rashford, martial, greenwood, cavani, fernandes, pogba, de gea, maguire all fall into this category. Only Fernandes and cavani are playing at what would be considered par for their level.

4) around these players you have a number of pretty decent players who would sure as hell be elevated if they were playing for a coach who could extract the maximum and have a coherent plan - fred, mctominay, shaw etc are exactly the sort of tenacious players with a modicum of skill who’d be a mainstay in a decent klopp side for example.

5) the glaring weak link here is your manager. I recognise this isn’t a popular opinion on here, but having ole as your manager is like us playing Rhys Williams in defence, midfield and attack and hoping to make it work. It just won’t. He’s far below the level of the players he’s coaching and whatever progress you’ve seen is purely down to the individual skill of your world class players rather than any coherent plan.

6) it would be criminal negligence if your owners aren’t looking to upgrade your manager when the likes of conte are available. The upgrade from Greenwood or martial to Sancho will be a few more goals or assists and will cost you nearly £100m. The upgrade from OGS to conte revolutionises the club, tactical setup, playing environment etc and costs precisely zero.

I'll go through your points here.
1) Correct. The game should have been won in 90 mins.
2) Correct somewhat. Buying a big name does not make us title contenders overnight.
3) I disagree. Fernandes is the only world class player there. I feel you must be joking putting De Gea and Martial in here. How are they anywhere near top level, both should be sold. Cavani isn't world class, he's very good at his age but needs improving on. Greenwood could become world class but there are still holes in his game but he's fantastic, Pogba needs to go. Rashford is overrated, on what basis would you consider him world class.
4) Ole has made a plan using McFred and has got more than most would out of them. Where was Fred under Jose? He was nowhere. Shaw has improved massively since Ole took over.
5) "Whatever progress you've seen is purely down to the individual skill of your world class players" Such simplistic nonsense. Signing better players makes team better. Who knew? What does Klopp win if he doesn't sign Van Dijk? Not much as we have seen. Ole isn't the best coach in the world but glaring weak link is funny when McTominay, AWB, Lindelof, De Gea all start in a European Final.
6) Glazers have been criminally neglient since they bought this club. Putting Conte in may see a bounce but without structural change and recruitment our ceiling is still 2nd while Pep is at city.

Some interesting points but as most people seem to do, you've made your opinion on Ole suit your results and your narrative.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I just hope we are agressive and not just satisfied to get top 4. My feeling is our club is happy about top 4 and will not fire Ole nor even spend big for the world stars we could need to win the title.

 

[Siorac]

We finished actually only 6 points of that 80, with only 6 defeats but 11draws. I bet we can all think of those draws and think “we should have won that one”

But conversely, I can think of quite a few wins where a draw would have been a fairer result.

This, incidentally, is one of the reasons I'm not exactly optimistic about our prospects. Almost all our games are on a knife's edge and can go either way, much like last night's final. It very rarely happens that we go out there, outplay our opponent, and win convincingly.

 

[Denis Irwinning]

Funny when you Olein guys mention Bayern in positive way. Bayern is just opposite to your view of football.
They sack managers after few defeats. They even sacked manager after he won double.
Their managers don't get time. Also their managers don't have freedom to do what they want. They must play on certain way or they are history. Bayern manager don't pick "his" squad. He plays with what he gets from club.
And Bayern manager is not bigger than players.
Personally, i don't like most of that but as one Bayern fan said to me here; "it works".

Progress? Are we new Arsenal? Look at this place last two years. We celebrate top 4 and say "meh" to cups. Under Jose and Lvg we demanded trophies.

The thing which i can't accept and why i am this much against Ole is that he totally lowered our standards. United 3 years without trophy, losing semis and finals and fans are happy and talking about progress? What progress? Progress to Spurs and Arsenal?

Telles, Cavani, VDB. Ole must turn this summer into a trophy winning season? It is the Glazers who have lowered the standards.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Personally think he has taken us as far as he is getting us. The squad is better set up for the future but I don't see us winning many if any cups and definitely don't see us competing with Pep and Klopp who are better managers.

 

[Yorkeontop]

He is letting the players down by continuing with his coaching staff. He's no great shakes tactical and has surrounded himself with an average brain trust.

 

[bleedred]

I have been ole out since the start of last season (19/20) and felt he was not the right person to take us forward. But last summer showed that our problems are deeper than our manager. Our quality on the bench is atrocious and our packed schedule did not help as well. I think Ole will be gone next summer. But fans wishing that a new manager coming in is going to solve our problems are in for a shocker.

At the start of the season, my personal target was for us to finish close to 10 points of the top of the table and Ole has done that and for that I am willing to see him through next season. But as others have said, I think this is the best he can do and I don't think he will succeed next season and no manager will unless we fix things at the top.

 

[The Hilton]

Funny when you Olein guys mention Bayern in positive way. Bayern is just opposite to your view of football.
They sack managers after few defeats. They even sacked manager after he won double.
Their managers don't get time. Also their managers don't have freedom to do what they want. They must play on certain way or they are history. Bayern manager don't pick "his" squad. He plays with what he gets from club.
And Bayern manager is not bigger than players.
Personally, i don't like most of that but as one Bayern fan said to me here; "it works".

Progress? Are we new Arsenal? Look at this place last two years. We celebrate top 4 and say "meh" to cups. Under Jose and Lvg we demanded trophies.

The thing which i can't accept and why i am this much against Ole is that he totally lowered our standards. United 3 years without trophy, losing semis and finals and fans are happy and talking about progress? What progress? Progress to Spurs and Arsenal?

Ole hasn't lowered any standards, he's raised them. It's no longer "win a trophy at any cost (by throwing away the league under LvG & Mou), no matter how bad a state the club is in afterwards. Its now "try to win every match", recruit players who are in it for the long haul, and to make sure the club is healthy long term.

Under Ole we've made progress from where we were (6th and going lower) to where we are now (2nd and improving).

Dunno what Arse or Spurs have to do with it, we're now consistently much better than them under Ole.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Any other big club would sack him this summer

Like your big club sacked Poch? How did that work out for you? And how did Arsenal do when they sacked Wenger? (and even Emery, to a lesser degree)
And I'm actually not having a dig here necessarily, just showing how this "sack sack sack" mentality can easily end up with you 8th or in the European conference league. At least Solskjaer is showing an element of planning for the future, maybe he screwed up the other night but you have to take a manager as a whole in my opinion, and overall Solskjaer has been good for us.

 

[Andycoleno9]

We finished actually only 6 points of that 80, with only 6 defeats but 11draws. I bet we can all think of those draws and think “we should have won that one”

We still finished bellow that 80. And without trophy.
And that (thinking about points dropped) can be said for any season during any manager. In both ways. Many points were won when we should dropped them and opposite. Best examples are our Brighton and Everton games. We should have lost but were lucky and we won 3 points. On the other hand against Everton we lost 2 points. For half of games during season you can use that logic.
Reality is that Ole is still far away from Jose's results. But "general mood" (whatever thst means) around club worth more than any trophy i guess.

 

[MU655]

Telles, Cavani, VDB. Ole must turn this summer into a trophy winning season? It is the Glazers who have lowered the standards.

Isn't Cavani a player that people have been raving about? He is arguably the second-best striker in the league after Kane.

De Beek is a very good player who has seen minimal opportunities. Also, Telles barely saw any opportunities. Overall, it is Solskjaer's fault for not utilising them more.

If he had given them more game time and shown more trust to the bench players, we may very well have had far more options available this season than what it has appeared. I think the reluctance to give these players much game time, and the lack of trust he showed in them has made it seem like our depth is shallower than it is.

 

[el3mel]

Ole hasn't lowered any standards, he's raised them. It's no longer "win a trophy at any cost (by throwing away the league under LvG & Mou), no matter how bad a state the club is in afterwards. Its now "try to win every match", recruit players who are in it for the long haul, and to make sure the club is healthy long term.

Under Ole we've made progress from where we were (6th and going lower) to where we are now (2nd and improving).

Dunno what Arse or Spurs have to do with it, we're now consistently much better than them under Ole.

We spent the entire season with people telling us we have absolutely no hope to challenge City because they are Gods of football and 2nd is the best we can get, hauiling Europe league trophy even though we get into after a CL giga failure win in the group but yeah the standards of fans haven't dropped indeed.

The current United fans are content by being 2nd and don't even bother thinking about challenging City because they have better squad than us so no fecking way we can defeat them. Previously United fans were angry at finishing 19 points away from City despite them also being better but now we are content with being 12 points behind them and even saw some posts before EL final considering it a "glorious" season.

But yeah, standards are still pretty high I see.

 

[The Hilton]

We spent the entire season with people telling us we have absolutely no hope to challenge City because they are Gods of football and 2nd is the best we can get, hauiling Europe league trophy even though we get into after a CL giga failure win in the group but yeah the standards of fans haven't dropped indeed.

The current United fans are content by being 2nd and don't even bother thinking about challenging City because they have better squad than us so no fecking way we can defeat them. Previously United fans were angry at finishing 19 points away from City despite them also being better but now we are content with being 12 points behind them and even saw some posts before EL final considering it a "glorious" season.

But yeah, standards are still pretty high I see.

You're arguing against a strawman - I never said any of what you attributed to me, never called the season "glorious". Honestly I think you might need a nap or something, a massage, something to calm you down because that post is a rambling mess of hyperbole and melodrama.

Nobody is happy about losing last night, you know this, and nobody is happy to settle for 2nd, but it's not realistic to expect to go from 6th and players that don't care to top straight away.

Listen to a few of the interviews with the players, they know its a process, next season is the big one, we have to challenge for the title and anything less would be failure.

 

[el3mel]

You're arguing against a strawman - I never said any of what you attributed to me, never called the season "glorious". Honestly I think you might need a nap or something, a massage, something to calm you down because that post is a rambling mess of hyperbole and melodrama.

Nobody is happy about losing last night, you know this, and nobody is happy to settle for 2nd, but it's not realistic to expect to go from 6th and players that don't care to top straight away.

Listen to a few of the interviews with the players, they know its a process, next season is the big one, we have to challenge for the title and anything less would be failure.

You are talking about how the standards didn't drop but then you talk only about yourself and not the general view of this forum.

The fact is most people here told us we have no hope to challenge for the league because City are Gods and have 2 complete teams and all this shit.

So if this is the kind of defeatist mentality a lot of United fans and specifically on this board are thinking in now then the standards have dropped and massively. The fact that since there's just a team better team than us in the league our fans threw on the towel and consider challenging them hopeless is a shit mentality that I have never seen United fans have.

 

[TsuWave]

3) You have plenty of world class or potentially world class players that a number of top managers would be licking their lips at having the opportunity to work with - rashford, martial, greenwood, cavani, fernandes, pogba, de gea, maguire all fall into this category. Only Fernandes and cavani are playing at what would be considered par for their level.

Not true. Pogba has been top 3 for us since December. Behind only Luke Shaw and maybe Cavani. Greenwood had a tough start to the season but he's been great for a while now too. The kid is progressing well.

5) the glaring weak link here is your manager. I recognise this isn’t a popular opinion on here, but having ole as your manager is like us playing Rhys Williams in defence, midfield and attack and hoping to make it work. It just won’t. He’s far below the level of the players he’s coaching and whatever progress you’ve seen is purely down to the individual skill of your world class players rather than any coherent plan.

I agree

 

[Red Star One]

You are talking about how the standards didn't drop but then you talk only about yourself and not the general view of this forum.

The fact is most people here told us we have no hope to challenge for the league because City are Gods and have 2 complete teams and all this shit.

So if this is the kind of defeatist mentality a lot of United fans and specifically on this board are thinking in now then the standards have dropped and massively. The fact that since there's just a team better team than us in the league our fans threw on the towel and consider challenging them hopeless is a shit mentality that I have never seen United fans have.

Spot on. I’m very tired of reading about omnipotence of City and how they’re uncatchable. I remember hearing all that also a season before, when Liverpool battered them in the league and won the whole thing with a squad half as deep as one of City (and extremely luck with with injuries, granted). Standards have dropped and there’s little doubt about that, after another season of “constant improvement” we finish trophyless and never really challenging for a title, many fans look past our shambles vs Jose, tragic CL exit and still say, it’s been quite good enough. I know it’s still a post-SAF hell but we’ve been winning trophies in that period already and enough time has passed to have expectations higher than “solid enough to finish scores below the champions in the league yet still second, screw all other competitions”. I’d much rather finish 4th than 2nd (that is quoted as Ole’s biggest achievement this year) if that meant we were in the race for at least few gameweeks and if our team and manager felt that drive, if they wanted to win it more than anything else. Did Ole give me an impression he’d go all lengths to win the title? Not at all.

 

[Affirmation]

We need to be real with ourselves that something has to change, either Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has to go or the coaching staff needs a major shakeup. Instead of hiring staff based on their association to the club, we should focus more on credentials and their overall ability to improve this team. A lot of us, including myself, had a period of doubt regarding Ole's abilities to take this club forward. Those doubts however were quickly forgotten by the great run of form from this team and the resemblance of a project being implemented. However, as simple as it may seem, last nights Europa League final was always going to ultimately define where we stand in Ole's tenure with the club.

We didn't just loose that game, we threw it away, predominantly because of how it was managed by the entirety of the coaching staff. The same staff that have complained about the issue of fixture congestion only to botch the substitutions when it was clear that the team was tiring and things needed to change. His lack of courage to look past his 'favorites' to make changes for the better of the overall team is also evident, this was exemplified by Marcus Rashford not only starting, but playing the entirety of the game. Not to mention, Ole's baffling actions overall as a manager, highlighted by his decision to bring on the best penalty takers in extra time but failing to make the obvious change at the goalkeeping position. It's not a secret that one of David DeGea's weaknesses as a goalkeeper is facing a penalty, where as the opposite can be said in regards to Dean Henderson. His decision to play Paul Pogba as a deep lying midfielder did not go unnoticed either, Pogba has proven on multiple occasions that he cannot play that role in the team to the level that is required. Not only does it limit his ability as an attacking player, but it also restricts Bruno Fernandes too, a player who clearly thrives more when Pogba plays predominantly further up the field in a more attacking role. Ole's choice to clumsily force an out of form Rashford into the starting lineup ultimately damaged the team before a ball had even been kicked.

As I mentioned, I'm fine with giving Ole another chance as long as the aforementioned criticisms are corrected and we see a major shakeup with not only the coaching staff, but the players as well. We are improving as a team, but last night was a major set back on the road to progress and these faults cannot continue going into next season. There are of course other obvious faults at club level that hamper our chances at success, but this should not be used as an excuse to look past these obvious faults.

 

[Nick7]

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

You are talking about how the standards didn't drop but then you talk only about yourself and not the general view of this forum.

The fact is most people here told us we have no hope to challenge for the league because City are Gods and have 2 complete teams and all this shit.

So if this is the kind of defeatist mentality a lot of United fans and specifically on this board are thinking in now then the standards have dropped and massively. The fact that since there's just a team better team than us in the league our fans threw on the towel and consider challenging them hopeless is a shit mentality that I have never seen United fans have.

Agree I really wanted us to push on. Lots of people here happy with that draw vs Liverpool. I was not and did see it as a lost chance to go for the title. Liverpool could be beaten at that time.

Then we fecked up vs Sheffield at home and we ruined a chance for the title during that period with many draws too.

How people was happy that we still did not do as badly as Liverpool shows the lower standards.

 

[The Hilton]

You are talking about how the standards didn't drop but then you talk only about yourself and not the general view of this forum.

The fact is most people here told us we have no hope to challenge for the league because City are Gods and have 2 complete teams and all this shit.

So if this is the kind of defeatist mentality a lot of United fans and specifically on this board are thinking in now then the standards have dropped and massively. The fact that since there's just a team better team than us in the league our fans threw on the towel and consider challenging them hopeless is a shit mentality that I have never seen United fans have.

This forum is a strange dichotomy, it's people with absurdly high expectations mixed with total pessimism..

The same fans who throw in the towel with City did the same back when Chelsea took over under Fergie, and before that with Arsenal, some fans are just negative drama queens.

The thing to keep in mind is what your expectations are, for me it's continued improvement, which next season means a real title challenge.

 

[pascell]

Farcical but doesn't surprise me with how with who's in charge.

 

[gorky_utd]

Farcical but doesn't surprise me with how with who's in charge.

All that matters is top 4. As long as that is secured, Glazers won't care.