I don't want Ole sacked, I want to see what his squad can do next season, but if we aren't looking as though we're in the title race by Christmas I think he will be gone in January.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Almost certainly. Next year will be his real test (like actually because it'll be devastating for him and the players right now so we'll need to have them all bounce back).
It's pointless discussing him re Utd, because he would absolutely have an aneurysm working with those above Ole here.I remember some guy in La Liga thread downplaying Atletico's title win arguing La Liga is basically farmers league tooI am not saying Serie A is at it's peak but Conte is clearly a good manager and did a good job at Inter. His character is explosive and difficult but I don't think we should question his managerial abilities.
When people mention these different managers coming to Utd, they need to realise that these managers are really just head coaches, and often don't even think beyond the confines of the first team. The way the club is structured makes it a herculean task, where you aren't solely focused on the football, and that's before we even consider the horrid setup left behind by Jose which needed wholesale renovation. It's a much, much harder task than it is at any other club. And those clubs often have sporting success at the heart of everything they do. The chancers we have at the helm at the moment simply don't.
Just look at last summer's transfer window to see what they're like. If history repeats itself this year (and I'm honestly 75% sure that it will) we're going to be back square one next year, and no manager thrives under these circumstances and these owners. It's a testament to Ole that he's managed to last as long as he has done, and I think for many people here, the realisation hasn't dawned yet that this is likely as good as it will get under the Glazers. The fact that Ole cares as much as he does, is probably the one reason why he's managed to hold it all together thus far.
People will likely disagree, and that's their prerogative, but when you step back and consider the post-SAF era as a whole, I struggle to think of the situation being anything else.
This is a very tricky comparison. Klopp was much more established manager with trophies to his name and he inherited a team that didn’t win Premier League in decades and following years of Woy-like misery. We were in a bad spot when Ole took over, but no doubt our squad was way better than what Klopp initially got and expectations were higher. Pool fans could only be really disappointed by his first season. I think we’re right to be disappointed all Ole seasons so far.
He really has to learn to stop playing out of form players hoping they suddenly jolt to life. Rashford at his best is good enough for our team but he has been so poor now for weeks there was no way he should have played last night. There were many variations we could have used with fred, vdb, Mata or even diallo who was very good at weekend. If it's not working then by all means introduce rashford who has a point to prove. He should quite clearly have been changed at half time
You've managed to get every part of that wrong. Ole inherited a team in 6th, full of mutinous players. We were in free fall when he took over.
The progess is easy to see. Took over in 6th, got us to 3rd and then 2nd, our first back to back top 4 finish since SAF retired. That's not mentioning the atmosphere around the club improving immeasurably, and the long term approach to building the squad.
I agree with this, although our end to the season was pathetic and the excuses are just ridiculous. However, despite the manner of the defeat, getting to a final was progress as was second place. There's also been a marginal improvement in our overall play, but there's plenty of work to do in that department.
Obviously the end to the season will make the atmosphere around here extremely hostile going into next season.
After final he says "We didn't turn up". I mean, whos job is to make sure that players are fired up and prepared for game for which you are preparing 2 weeks?
And this is sentence which he said lots of time already after we lose game.
He'll be our manager for at least another year, so we have to work with what we have.
His utter reliance on a single plan at this level is simply not good enough, and that is the learning he needs to take away this summer. United under him have a Plan A, and when that doesn't work he's been utterly incapable of crafting a different solution to a problem. And it's not a new problem.
Take off Rashford, pull Pogba onto the left (remember that, it was less than 2 weeks ago he was looking ace there) bring on Matic or Donny or Mata or Fred and try a bit of tippi-tappy around the box. It's so obvious - it's literally how we were playing a few weeks ago - and yet we just kept attempting to get wide, cross it into a packed box with on aerial threat.
On the GK sub - it's blindingly obvious that OIe is 'old skool' and he probably genuinely believes that it's just a coin flip so no harm in keeping Dave. The fact that entire books have been written showing it's not hell Ole if you flip a coin 35 times and it's always heads it's the coin that's the issue.
Again, we just have to hope he learns. There are good things about Ole that will be forgotten in the immediate aftermath of this. But he needs to focus on weaknesses, because they're kind of glaring.
His utter reliance on a single plan at this level is simply not good enough, and that is the learning he needs to take away this summer. United under him have a Plan A, and when that doesn't work he's been utterly incapable of crafting a different solution to a problem. And it's not a new problem.
Take off Rashford, pull Pogba onto the left (remember that, it was less than 2 weeks ago he was looking ace there) bring on Matic or Donny or Mata or Fred and try a bit of tippi-tappy around the box. It's so obvious - it's literally how we were playing a few weeks ago - and yet we just kept attempting to get wide, cross it into a packed box with on aerial threat.
On the GK sub - it's blindingly obvious that OIe is 'old skool' and he probably genuinely believes that it's just a coin flip so no harm in keeping Dave. The fact that entire books have been written showing it's not hell Ole if you flip a coin 35 times and it's always heads it's the coin that's the issue.
Again, we just have to hope he learns. There are good things about Ole that will be forgotten in the immediate aftermath of this. But he needs to focus on weaknesses, because they're kind of glaring.
No trophy is an issue.
However the team finished 8 points better than last season with no 1st team additions in the summer that shouldn't be overlooked if we improve by the same margin next year we'll be challenging for the league no question.
If we don't improve to that degree and win something next year at the end of the season if we are still around the top 4 it will be time to change, if we aren't around the top 4 at the halfway point of the season that change needs to happen sooner, we do need to carry on the path that Ole has set though we shouldn't rip it up as I feel it's the correct path just maybe not with the correct manager to get us to the next step.
However the team finished 8 points better than last season with no 1st team additions in the summer that shouldn't be overlooked if we improve by the same margin next year we'll be challenging for the league no question.
If we don't improve to that degree and win something next year at the end of the season if we are still around the top 4 it will be time to change, if we aren't around the top 4 at the halfway point of the season that change needs to happen sooner, we do need to carry on the path that Ole has set though we shouldn't rip it up as I feel it's the correct path just maybe not with the correct manager to get us to the next step.
Progress starts and ends with the atmosphere around the club.
2,5 years we still can't play from the back and our attacking press is god awful, feck me
It also shouldn't be overlooked that this was really the bare minimum. Last season Pogba missed two-thirds of the season and Bruno only joined halfway through. We had Andreas Pereira and Jesse Lingard playing regularly. Even if we had signed no-one, it would have been a reasonable expectation to improve on last season.
Our summer window was admittedly disappointing but we still added an experienced striker who ended on 17 goals and one of the key players of the Ajax team that had reached the CL semi-finals, destroying Real Madrid in the process, two years ago, plus an experienced back-up for Luke Shaw and a couple of young wingers, one of which was quite expensive. So yeah, significantly improving on last season's miserable 66 points was the absolute bare minimum. We achieved that but unfortunately, not much else.
I agree with this but Ole is his own worst enemy too though sometimes. Use the squad. Cut players who are playing like shit. even if their replacement isn’t a sure thing it sends a message to the starters that we won’t stand for it and it sends a message to the squad players that there’s a genuine route into the team. It’s not rocket science. He’s choked with that side of things majorly.
First of all; long term approach is a joke for club big as Man Utd. And best excuse for mediocre result. How come Juve, Barca, Real, Bayern....don't have that approach? And they do perfectly fine without it.
Ah yes, i forgot good old progress in bringing good mood and all that.
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Thinking about it, what really disappointed me the most was saving subs to take penalties rather than using them to try and win the game. That just isn't Manchester United as far as I'm concerned and it really surprised me that he did that.
In 13/14 Rodgers had Liverpool closer to winning the title than we have been, since Fergie.
He had a bad season following that challenge, and Klopp took over subsequently.
What I'm getting at is not every big club sacks their manager if they don't win trophies right away as some here suggest. And that's how it should be.
This instant gratification we all crave doesn't always work out in club football.
Klopp obviously had them progressing at a steady pace, and I feel Ole is also progressing as seen with our league positions and points total.
I'm not sure we will win the league next season, however I feel this is the summer he needs to be properly backed with young, quality players.
Let him have a go.
If it doesn't work out, our next manager will inherit a proper squad that won't require much chopping and changing.
I agree with most of this, even if I think Ole is more of a head coach than a manager despite what the club's go-to guys in the media try to sell us.
Conte is notoriously demanding on his executives, its the reason he left Juve, the reason he left Chelsea, the reason he nearly left Inter last summer and the reason he's left Inter now (cos they want to get Lukaku sold to help with debts). Conte would combust even worse than Mourinho at Man Utd. As you say, most elite coaches would. Most elite coaches simply won't stick around having their hands tied.
Can you imagine how Pep would react if he was told, nah well the club already signed a lot of defenders recently so you can't have Dias? Make it work with Mangala we've just given him a new contract?!
That's how United acts. 'Protecting value.' New deals for players with no real uses throughout the squad. At such high wages no club will offer us serious transfer fees to take them off us.
All things considered Ole at least offers stability and I get to see my team managed by a guy I love. If and when he goes, which will happen if he fails to get top four (since that's all the Glazers care about), people might realise what the task of being Man Utd coach is these days. It was too easy to hate and distrust Van Gaal and Mourinho. Maybe people need to see a flavour of the month coach come in, crash and burn, and then they'll get it?
As for Ole, you can talk about tactics and whatnot, but his big failure last night was managing the mental side. You could tell from Rashford's almost manic post game interview that they'd played the occasion not the match. Three shots on target over 120 minutes, from a team of players who usually need to be screamed at to pass e.g. Rashford, Mason etc. That shows they got stage fright. Nobody wanted to take on the responsibility of having a crack from distance and seeing whether Cavani could poach off a deflection or rebound. For all our possession we played pretty much ultra safe all night. We can't have any complaints about losing because we didn't do enough to win. Ole needed to get into the players heads and get them to push for it. If he tried then the only evidence of anyone responding came from Cavani and McTominay. Even Bruno and Pogba weren't trying their usual long distance late game blasts. Stage fright, pure and simple.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2020/21 Discussion | Fails to win Europa League | Again
Bayern does have the long term approach and no need to name them twice. The other clubs you mentioned are in financial trouble and underperforming. So doing fine? Not really
We like to do things a little differently from other clubs, which is probably why all of the following clubs have managed to win a major domestic/European trophy in one of Europe's top 5 leagues, since Manchester United last won anything:
Chelsea, Sevilla, Liverpool, Lazio, Juventus, Rennes, Dortmund, Napoli, Real Madrid, Lille, Man City, Frankfurt, Atletico Madrid, Bayern, Leicester, Inter, Barcelona, Arsenal, PSG and Villarreal.
Biggest club in the world? I think not.
Don't laugh to that. Some coaches are good in tactics, some in winning stuff and some in bringing good mood. I bet Emery had nightmares how to counter our good mood tactics. But he was lucky because players were in such good mood that they didn't turn up for the game (as Ole said himself).
A defensive manager whose team has out scored all others since Fergie?
Bayern certainly have that approach and that is one that a lot of United supporters would rather see. It doesn't mean you can't invest in big name players as well - which is the blend that Ole is quite obviously going for.
I don't get why people just want to spend endless money to buy anything and anybody to bring success to the club. That isn't a plan that is sustainable as proven by Barca, Juve and Real from your list if you look at their debts and current problems.
Not saying he’s not a good manager he won the PL not so long ago. But i am downplaying inter winning the league. That league is in complete disarray this season. He won it with Sanchez in his squad. A player we all know as done. So I’d question his judgement on that.I remember some guy in La Liga thread downplaying Atletico's title win arguing La Liga is basically farmers league too
also no way would he suit United. Him and the glazers?
Ridiculuous. All those apparent preparations, not caring about other games and then this. I dunno I think I'd give him one last chance but I must say I'm sick of him now. And the players bar Scott, Cavani and Greenwood.
They do need a wake up call and kick up their arse but they're too busy making pr moves and being nice.
Yep. Which makes you question our big-clubness. If it's bleeding obvious he can't take us any higher, then what's the point persisting? Unless of course you don't want to go any higher.
We're not just any big club. We stick by managers (and players) pointlessly well beyond the point where it's evident were going nowhere under them. Rise and repeat.
Ah so the coaches are the reason why he can't do his job properly? What a pathetic excuse.
It's just another way of saying he's not good enough. After Zeljko Buvac left Klopp and Arteta left Pep's coaching staff, people were talking about how big of a miss they'd be for Liverpool and City. Turns out they weren't missed at all because success continued to follow to an even higher level after their departures. The Head Coach/Manager is the reason why teams become great and not the bloody coaches. Its another excuse used to cover Ole for not being good enough.
People talk a lot about Queiroz under SAF but he also wasn't missed at all. We reached two CL finals after his departure, the only difference was the emergence of Pep's Barca and us losing Ronaldo.
Changing the coaches won't do much. We could bring in City's current coaches but how will that be of any help if they dont play Ole's style of football?
It's just another way of saying he's not good enough. After Zeljko Buvac left Klopp and Arteta left Pep's coaching staff, people were talking about how big of a miss they'd be for Liverpool and City. Turns out they weren't missed at all because success continued to follow to an even higher level after their departures. The Head Coach/Manager is the reason why teams become great and not the bloody coaches. Its another excuse used to cover Ole for not being good enough.
People talk a lot about Queiroz under SAF but he also wasn't missed at all. We reached two CL finals after his departure, the only difference was the emergence of Pep's Barca and us losing Ronaldo.
Changing the coaches won't do much. We could bring in City's current coaches but how will that be of any help if they dont play Ole's style of football?
It is downhill from here. How can the dressing room not be pissed off by him. The believe of winning trophies will be gone next season.
Inconsistent managers don't win medals, simple as that. Ole Gunnar Brainfart.
Fully agreed with this.
I haven't seen anyone say that?
He should resign, just like Zidane did. Zidane also happens to be an ex player and arguably an even bigger legend for them, I guess Zidane doesn’t love Real or know Madrids dna so tired of this crap, Ole is an ok coach but this job is too big for him, we can thank him for what he has done and move on.
I would love to see the Caf's definition of the phrase "instant gratification"
Would you resign? Zidane resigned because he knows that he has reputation to choose big clubs now. In a year, he will find another big club. Ole knows if he resignes that his career on big level is over. Back to Norway or Championship. So even if we start next season with 10 straight defeats, he will not resign.
When the bars as low as it was under the previous 3 that's hardly a huge achievement. Two games also helped massively inflate that figure.
We average less than 2 a game, that isn't good enough for a team supposedly looking to compete for honours.
I know he wont for the reasons you mention, I’m saying he should.
The forum is littered with posts saying Ole should get new coaches.
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