Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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It's worth noting he's mismanaged not only today's final, but Leicester in the semi final FA cup, PSG at OT and Leipzig at OT. We also failed to turn up against Chelsea in the FA Cup but I don't think he made any squad specific errors that day. At least I can't recall much.

He actually also initially mismanaged PSG when we won in that magical night in Paris, if you recall by putting Baily at RB and needing to hook him off to make a tweak back to how we were meant to be.
 
I’ll try to keep my analysis of the game short and rationale.

The starting line-up was spot on. Ole then made two critical mistakes tonight:

(1) How he didn’t use any subs to change his shape is beyond me - Rashford should have been taken off for Donny and Pogba pushed to the left. Rashford was having (another) off game.

(2) When he finally makes a change, he takes off his most in-form attacker. Insanity.

The De Gea / Henderson argument is a fair one but sometimes as a manager you have to trust your keeper on the field.

As for those saying our squad depth is the issue, you can very easily argue that Mata and DVB are better than any player Villarreal had out there. Tonight was on Ole, he was afraid to take action and lose the game which ultimately put us in a lottery, we had options on the bench.

Hopefully he’s learnt a lesson.
 
Mockney said:
Which is another problem exacerbated by losing this... We now seem one hell of a less promising prospect to the kind of ambitious and potentially World Class players we’d ideally want to sign this summer...

If we’d won, even playing poorly for 70 minutes, we could’ve plausibly still seemed like an elite club at the start of a new and promising winning cycle.... Now we seem like a perpetually stalled and problematic elite club, who can’t even eek past a Villarreal side with no notable names, and a manager not deemed good enough for Arsenal, with the likes of Pogba, Cavani and Fernandes!

Imagine another club of similar size and grandeur to us, with the players we have, losing a Europa League final to Villarreal!!?.... We’re a global football punchline now. Why would a Kane or a Harland, or even a Sancho for that matter, think we could deliver on the promise of PL and CL success for them? Knowing that we’re pretty dedicated to seeing how far we can push the whole Solskjaer experiment along? I mean I know we got Zlatan and Pogba to come here on a down curve a few years back, but that was also massively due to the then realistic notion that Mourinho was going to take us back to the top!... Whats the dream being sold now? ... that if we can convince enough top players to join, we can override the distinct lack of tactical acumen on show?

I know I’ve flip flopped on Ole a lot, and I’m really hoping I’ll be forced to do so again, but I’m feeling pretty pessimistic now about the prospect of another season with the same general problems that should’ve been addressed about 8 months ago
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I think that might be the depressing reality that we can’t acknowledge to be true. I’ve said this a few times on here but there’s nothing new about tonight. I think we know more or less everything we’re going to about Ole at this stage. The flaws and strengths are still largely the same.
 
No chance anything happens to him. Guy is revered regardless of unsatisfactory results. Owners have been catching major heat recently, no way they’ll make a move to get rid.
 
Marwood said:
I love Ole but he dodged the necessary decision to drop one of Pogba, Rashford or Greenwood. Instead he went for a soft target in Fred.

We ultimately paid the price in predictably poor performances from Pogba and Rashford. Pogba predictable as he was in CM and Rashford because that's how his form has been.
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Fred had an injury and had only trained once before the game. Nobody was sacrificed. If Fred was fit to start he would have played in the middle with McT and we would have had a game changer on the bench.
 
Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell said:
I said you were being silly because in response to saying we only need a cb and rw to compete you said ' oh you want messi and van dijk'.

Over many years watching United the highs and lows become part of the journey - not a crisis or something to lose your shit over. We'll have good times again (very soon) and bad times again.

But knee jerk reactions like you see on here aren't how the real world operates. Everyone with experience in the game see the direction United are heading is positive - we're not the finished article but we're not shit either.
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I get everything you're saying and I could accept those years where we needed to take a step back under Fergie and rebuild things a little to go again. I could always see it and believe in it. But I just don't see it with Ole. I believe if we sign unreal players across the board then he'll succeed, but so would other managers too. I also believe a better manager would bring us closer, would probably have seen us navigate the CL group stages better (the opposition wasn't actually amazing), would see us play better football, would unite the fan base behind the overall vision. It's hard to buy into the "give him more money" argument when the guy has no pedigree whatsoever as a manager at the top level.

You can't even convince us that he's our best option or that he is definitely the man to take us to the top, because where is the evidence? There is literally none. We finished 2nd in a season where we all accept that the other top teams have been horrendous. If they get back to anything like their normal level then we will probably struggle to do that, let alone challenge for the league. Even City have been below par and finished well clear of us.

An average Leicester have won a cup. There have been some big opportunities for us to capitalise and win things. You'd say we're the wnd best team in the league and yet no trophies and lost out to a 5th place Leicester and a 7th place Villarreal. Why is that? Do you think Fergie would have won a trophy with this team this season? Of course he would because he's a top class manager that can get the most out of a squad. You have watched United for years, you know better than me that Fergie didn't always have the best squad and yet... well the achievements speak for themselves.
 
Genuinely gutted for him. I know Solskjaer got some decisions wrong on the night but we still should've had enough character about us to get that trophy over the line.

I don't think we'll get a better chance of winning one with him now. He's been ridiculed for the vast majority of his time here so winning this felt like a necessity in terms of shutting a few people up and giving the squad the belief to go on to better things. I hope I'm wrong but I can't shake the feeling that this is the beginning of the end for Solskjaer.
 
Withnail said:
Fred had an injury and had only trained once before the game. Nobody was sacrificed. If Fred was fit to start he would have played in the middle with McT and we would have had a game changer on the bench.
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Well that's news to me. You got any sources to confirm Fred wasn't fit?
 
2 shots on target in 120 min, that is a 1 shot every 1 hour against a mediocre team. Let that sink in.
 
Dobba said:
Second place, no trophies. Aka, Poch's best season in England. He got up to three lost semi-finals and the one final whilst at Spurs though.

One an abject failure that deserves the sack, the other his Cafe chosen replacement.
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One manager is considered a notorious bottler whose last trophy win was this season - one is considered good enough to stay who hasn't won a trophy in like 8 years.
 
Dobba said:
Second place, no trophies. Aka, Poch's best season in England. He got up to three lost semi-finals and the one final whilst at Spurs though.

One an abject failure that deserves the sack, the other his Cafe chosen replacement.
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Aside the fact that I don’t like arguing abstracts (“Caf’s chosen replacement”) Poch overachieved at Spurs. Ole has done the opposite at United. unless, you’re essentially saying the same.
 
Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell said:
Ok, humour me. What should Ole have done tonight?
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honestly mate, are you actually high or something?
You don’t have to be up his arse even when he gets it wrong. Even Ole is critical of himself, you’re allowed to be too.
Do you genuinely think he’ll come away from that game and think he’s not analysed his and his coaches performance?

Don’t worry it doesn’t make you a shit fan to call it. It also doesn’t mean a 360 change on your Ole stance, its okay. Just call a fecking a spade a spade.
 
TsuWave said:
Aside the fact that I don’t like arguing abstracts (“Car’s chosen replacement”) Poch overachieved at Spurs. Ole has done the opposite at United. There’s also a significant difference in outlay
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He didn't achieve at Spurs. He inherited the best striker this country has produced since Rooney and managed to turn his guarantee 25 goals a season into a trophy cabinet so bare he wants out. He infamously binned cups year after year because he deemed them beneath him.
 
A win even on the lottery of penalty shootout would have been United best and most successful season since Ferguson retired. The loss means its basically a carbon copy of season 2017/18 2nd in the league and beaten in a cup final.
 
Leroy The Red said:
honestly mate, are you actually high or something?
You don’t have to be up his arse even when he gets it wrong. Even Ole is critical of himself, you’re allowed to be too.
Do you genuinely think he’ll come away from that game and think he’s not analysed his and his coaches performance?

Don’t worry it doesn’t make you a shit fan to call it. It also doesn’t mean a 360 change on your Ole stance, its okay. Just call a fecking a spade a spade.
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You just don't get it mate. You haven't watched football for 45 years so you don't know anything.
 
Mockney said:
Which is another problem exacerbated by losing this... We now seem one hell of a less promising prospect to the kind of ambitious and potentially World Class players we’d ideally want to sign this summer...

If we’d won, even playing poorly for 70 minutes, we could’ve plausibly still seemed like an elite club at the start of a new and promising winning cycle.... Now we seem like a perpetually stalled and problematic elite club, who can’t even eek past a Villarreal side with no notable names, and a manager not deemed good enough for Arsenal, with the likes of Pogba, Cavani and Fernandes!

Imagine another club of similar size and grandeur to us, with the players we have, losing a Europa League final to Villarreal!!?.... We’re a global football punchline now. Why would a Kane or a Harland, or even a Sancho for that matter, think we could deliver on the promise of PL and CL success for them? Knowing that we’re pretty dedicated to seeing how far we can push the whole Solskjaer experiment along? I mean I know we got Zlatan and Pogba to come here on a down curve a few years back, but that was also massively due to the then realistic notion that Mourinho was going to take us back to the top!... Whats the dream being sold now? ... that if we can convince enough top players to join, we can override the distinct lack of tactical acumen on show?

I know I’ve flip flopped on Ole a lot, and I’m really hoping I’ll be forced to do so again, but I’m feeling pretty pessimistic now about the prospect of another season with the same general problems that should’ve been addressed about 8 months ago
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I don't think any player would make a decision to not sign with us because of tonight and conversely wouldn't think they should join us if we did win.

We'll be in the CL next year and challenging for the league. The players will want to be a part of that. Kane would have a much better chance at us and Sancho or Haaland would as well. The only team that they would prefer would be City and there's no real shame in that, that's just where they're at right now.
 
Great starting lineup, I think it’s what myself and most prefer with Pogba as a CM and half of Mcfred.

However no excuses for not making subs especially when it became obvious fatigue was kicking in and Rashford was having an off night.

I heard an excuse on BT Sport, I think by Robbie Savage, saying it might be about lack of squad depth. But Villarreal made 5 changes and not only did they not collapse, but they actually improved, no matter how much we hate the glazers or how hard some will go to defend Ole, Villarreal do not have a bigger or better squad than United, so the fact that they made 5 ends the squad depth theory for not making a subs.
 
I'm just gutted. I was fecking desperate to see him lift a trophy as manager on Sir Matt's birthday and 22 years after 1999. Big summer ahead.
 
Dobba said:
He didn't achieve at Spurs. He inherited the best striker this country has produced since Rooney and managed to turn his guarantee 25 goals a season into a trophy cabinet so bare he wants out. He infamously binned cups year after year because he deemed them beneath him.
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You are so clueless it’s painful. Poch had a huge hand in developing Kane, who was at best a good prospect when he took over. Give it a rest
 
Womp said:
One manager is considered a notorious bottler whose last trophy win was this season - one is considered good enough to stay who hasn't won a trophy in like 8 years.
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Last and only trophy wins. 12 years into his managerial career.

Again, funny how these things aren't equal depending on who we're talking about isn't it?
 
Marwood said:
Well that's news to me. You got any sources to confirm Fred wasn't fit?
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I'm not sure what channel you were watching but they spoke about it before the game on Irish TV and others mentioned it in the match day thread.

Quotes from Solskjaer:

'Unfortunately Fred has been injured for the week leading up to the game and he’s trained last night and he’s okay to be on the bench. ‘He was disappointed not to start and that’s the hard bit of being a manager.’

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/26/man-...-league-final-clash-with-villarreal-14651798/
 
I was getting goosebumps and even a little emotional watching some of our past highlights in the build up, which Ole heavily featured in. Unfortunately it’s becoming as clear as day he isn’t up to the task. Losing tonight was absolutely unacceptable and he knows it. Only reason he’s still there is because we have owners who don’t give a shite about anything other than that CL money.
 
VP89 said:
It's worth noting he's mismanaged not only today's final, but Leicester in the semi final FA cup, PSG at OT and Leipzig at OT. We also failed to turn up against Chelsea in the FA Cup but I don't think he made any squad specific errors that day. At least I can't recall much.

He actually also initially mismanaged PSG when we won in that magical night in Paris, if you recall by putting Baily at RB and needing to hook him off to make a tweak back to how we were meant to be.
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He didn’t mismanage PSG at OT, unless you mean the Fred red card but for me that’s more on the player not to act like an idiot. And we didn’t take our chances that night.
He also didn’t mismanage Leicester (in the FA Cup quarters). Leicester are a good team who had a week’s rest. Whereas we played on Thursday away to Milan. We were only ever going to win this game if we had a lot of luck.
The big games he did mismanage were today and Leipzig away.
 
CM10 said:
Genuinely gutted for him. I know Solskjaer got some decisions wrong on the night but we still should've had enough character about us to get that trophy over the line.

I don't think we'll get a better chance of winning one with him now. He's been ridiculed for the vast majority of his time here so winning this felt like a necessity in terms of shutting a few people up and giving the squad the belief to go on to better things. I hope I'm wrong but I can't shake the feeling that this is the beginning of the end for Solskjaer.
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I've been supporting Ole throughout and for me it definitely feels that way.

I have not seen such a disaster class of management in a long time. This wasn't just a 'oops I maybe should have tweaked this or that instead' kind of bad, this was proper lost deer in headlights bad.
 
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Theres no escaping the fact, Ole has lost 5 semi finals in three years and the last chance of silverware this season he blows it.
His game and squad management are very poor.
He tries to manage out the game but keeps fecking it up.
Had he had the balls to try and win the final in 90 minutes by bringing on substitutions and failed I would have gave him some credit but sadly he didnt so all the blame has to be on him.
He's out his depth.
hes lucky there were no fans this season had there been hed be likely driven out.
Like I and many others have said we wont win anything with Ole as manager. I loved him as a player but as a manager hes average at best. Ah well onto next season where Chelsea Liverpool City ,who are all managed by far better managers, will strengthen and we will be lucky to finish top 4.
 
Ronaldo's ego said:
I was getting goosebumps and even a little emotional watching some of our past highlights in the build up, which Ole heavily featured in. Unfortunately it’s becoming as clear as day he isn’t up to the task. Losing tonight was absolutely unacceptable and he knows it. Only reason he’s still there is because we have owners who don’t give a shite about anything other than that CL money.
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The only reason he is our manager in the first place because he is a club legend, otherwise a manager with his CV will never be near the club.
 
pocco said:
Stupid comment. They were never given a prayer but he got them performing above their level. Don't you get it? Let's get Conte then if it's all about winning, because Ole is even worse in that comparison.
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Never given a prayer? They were up against Leicester City for a league title, who exactly was pitching them as league champions over Spurs?
 
Withnail said:
I'm not sure what channel you were watching but they spoke about it before the game on Irish TV and others mentioned it in the match day thread.

Quotes from Solskjaer:

'Unfortunately Fred has been injured for the week leading up to the game and he’s trained last night and he’s okay to be on the bench. ‘He was disappointed not to start and that’s the hard bit of being a manager.’

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/26/man-...-league-final-clash-with-villarreal-14651798/
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No I hadn't seen that. That explains it then thanks. Sorry Ole.
 
I don't think he'll be our manager this time next year. This and last season were ok, promising but it's time for this team to reach next level and don't think it will with Ole in charge.
 
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