Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mickeza said:
I know this isn’t the place for rational talk and the usual are out in force but I think the fact Fred wasn’t fit from the start hurt us a lot more than people realise. It meant we went all in and didn’t have a game changer from the bench. We should have still won within the 90 minutes and in all honesty I though we played well second half and totally dominated them. Extra time was a horror show though - as was leaving rashford on - but I think Ole trusts his big players to his detriment at times - but ultimately that’s why they like him.
Click to expand...

This was the big problem for me. I'm not absolving the manager of blame but it does show how thin the squad is when we had no match winners on the bench.

Would he have been better off starting someone like James so he at least had Rashford or Greenwood to come on at 60-65?
 
Not subbing on Henderson was his biggest mistake tonight. It's a substitute so obvious that any fan can see it after comparing the penalty statistics of both our keepers. It would have significantly improved our chances, more so than subbing on better penalty takers. It feels like we threw the trophy away.
 
Joga_Bonito said:
Tonight was not a good performance, but it was hardly surprising. We’ve been relying on individual moments of brilliance all season.

These players do not know how to win as a collective and that’s never going to good enough if the aim is to be successful.

We can talk about the details, and they are obviously important, but the major issue is that this is not a team. You wouldn’t bet on us to win almost any game.

There’s very little intentionality, conviction, and aggression, in either the attacking or defending, and there are few signs that the players have a clear idea of what they are attempting to achieve on the pitch.

Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester, all have a clear identity and, crucially, players that understand their role within the team.

We finished above three of those teams in the league, and that has to be recognised, but if we are to make the next step, then we have to become a collective unit, cut out the mistakes, and stop relying on individual players to win games.

The obvious flaw in that strategy was laid bare tonight. Our most important individuals failed to perform.
Click to expand...

Whos job is it to get them to perform?
 
Bullhitter said:
Starting lineup was not good. He bottled it, didn't have the balls to make a decision to leave one of Rashford, Greenwood or Pogba on the bench.

No wonder most of the squad acted like spoilt brats collecting their medals, seems like "the boys" are just that and are constantly being pandered to and infantilised.
Click to expand...
In fairness, apparently Fred wasn't 100% so there was justification for that decision (I'm not mad on Fred anyway). His refusal to take Rashford off though despite him clearly not being physically right and having a really bad game does though that the big players liking him is partially based on him giving them a lot of rope and because his game plan is so reliant on individuals producing moments of magic it makes sense that he'd keep on someone capable of providing it regardless of context or their contribution to that point.
 
I just know in a few months when Ole gets a random run of games together, the "wHeRe aRe tHe oLe oUt bRiGaDe" people will crawl out.

They can see beyond there and then. Its as if anyone who dares challenge Ole's ability doesn't want the club to do well.

It's the opposite. We desperately want the club to do well but we keep seeing the same mistakes being made over and over.

As brutal as it may seem, I think Ole should go this summer, he's taken us as far as he can. Only thing is who do we go for? Ancelloti? Poch? Allegri?
 
Dobba said:
Can't keep up with whether not winning the league but getting to a final (and losing) is success or failure. Seems to change from topic to topic and reply to reply.
Click to expand...

You haven't answered the question, and the answer is very simple. Before Poch took over Spurs, there was a big 5. He made it a big 6. This is a fact you cannot refute.
 
Bullhitter said:
Starting lineup was not good. He bottled it, didn't have the balls to make a decision to leave one of Rashford, Greenwood or Pogba on the bench.

No wonder most of the squad acted like spoilt brats collecting their medals, seems like "the boys" are just that and are constantly being pandered to and infantilised.
Click to expand...

What did the do collecting their medals?

I had turned it off at that stage. I assume they were pissed off like the runners up always are.
 
Withnail said:
This was the big problem for me. I'm not absolving the manager of blame but it does show how thin the squad is when we had no match winners on the bench.

Would he have been better off starting someone like James so he at least had Rashford or Greenwood to come on at 60-65?
Click to expand...
James against that deep defence is pretty useless in fairness. I’d definitely have brought him on though after Rashford’s horror show.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
You don't know the game better just because you've been watching longer. You're not an ex player or a manager, you're a supporter just like everyone else so spare us the attempts to educate.
Click to expand...

Time gives people perspective.

Ask any United fan the watched the club in the 70s and 80s they tell you that as a fan you need to take the rough with the smooth (snd finishing 2nd and losing a final is not the end of the world).
 
RORY65 said:
In fairness, apparently Fred wasn't 100% so there was justification for that decision (I'm not mad on Fred anyway). His refusal to take Rashford off though despite him clearly not being physically right and having a really bad game does though that the big players liking him is partially based on him giving them a lot of rope and because his game plan is so reliant on individuals producing moments of magic it makes sense that he'd keep on someone capable of providing it regardless of context or their contribution to that point.
Click to expand...

Rashford hasn't looked physically right for the best part of a year but both he and Solskjaer seem to think it's a source of pride that he plays through it all. All rather weird.
 
I’ve been a big defender of Ole. I think we’ve made huge progress under him and I think the club is going in the right direction.

Some of the big games this year though have been a huge concern. We’ve been cowardly. Unfortunately, there’s no other word. We haven’t gone for games we should have.

Now, if it’s against City or Liverpool, you could argue he might be right to be cautious. But that Villarreal team are atrocious. They looked very poor tonight. They were a Spanish Burnley, sitting back with 11 men behind the ball hoping to hit us with a set piece, and they did.

This wasn’t a game to be cautious and to be fair, Solskjaer’s starting 11 was a pretty attacking one. We didn’t play Fred. Played Pogba instead and played rashford and Greenwood either side of Cavani.

But, things did not go as planned. And I think tonight has been the biggest indictment on Ole’s time so far at United. Bruno was invisible for most of the game. Shaw didn’t have one of his better games. We were dodgy at the back. But Marcus Rashford had one of his worst games in a United shirt.

And you know what, these things can happen. Players can underperform for plenty of reasons. But no changes for 90 minutes. Rashford staying on the field. Greenwood being replaced and pogba being replaced are all things that baffled me and judging from this forum and Twitter, I’m not the only one.

It was a case tonight of Ole hoping some players pulled some magic out of thin air rather than make positive changes to affect the game. As I said, I’ve been a fan and a defender of Ole, but tonight has really made me think, he may not be the man to lead United forward. It was a genuinely pathetic display tonight.
 
Bullhitter said:
Rashford hasn't looked physically right for the best part of a year but both he and Solskjaer seem to think it's a source of pride that he plays through it all. All rather weird.
Click to expand...
Rashford wants to play these Euros at any cost and the club seems to be doing everything to facilitate it for him
 
Champ said:
How can you guarantee that? :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

His managerial record. Not necessarily winning, but good achievements with average teams and the good football we all truly desire, if we're being honest. Not this idea of letting our top class players work it out for themselves. If you watched his Spurs team you would know. It wasn't even a great set of players either, worse than our current 11 but 2nd in league, which was a great finish for Spurs, and a CL final, which they've never come close to repeating.
 
Withnail said:
What did the do collecting their medals?

I had turned it off at that stage. I assume they were pissed off like the runners up always are.
Click to expand...

Petulant to levels that I wouldn't tolerate from a under 8's team I coach. Didn't seem like anybody was to be seen when Villarreal were getting theirs or the trophy either. Again not a sign of great (or any) leadership from manager or captain. Acted like losing was beneath them. You lose a final you applaud the winners.
 
pocco said:
His managerial record. Not necessarily winning, but good achievements with average teams and the good football we all truly desire, if we're being honest. Not this idea of letting our top class players work it out for themselves. If you watched his Spurs team you would know. It wasn't even a great set of players either, worse than our current 11 but 2nd in league, which was a great finish for Spurs, and a CL final, which they've never come close to repeating.
Click to expand...
Nobody won nothing more stylishly. I'm sold, get him in.
 
JustAGuest said:
Not subbing on Henderson was his biggest mistake tonight. It's a substitute so obvious that any fan can see it after comparing the penalty statistics of both our keepers. It would have significantly improved our chances, more so than subbing on better penalty takers. It feels like we threw the trophy away.
Click to expand...
Silly hindsight.
 
Bullhitter said:
Petulant to levels that I wouldn't tolerate from a under 8's team I coach. Didn't seem like anybody was to be seen when Villarreal were getting theirs or the trophy either. Again not a sign of great (or any) leadership from manager or captain. Acted like losing was beneath them. You lose a final you applaud the winners.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm absolutely outraged by the fact our players were clearly hurt by the result and don't like losing.
 
Bullhitter said:
Petulant to levels that I wouldn't tolerate from a under 8's team I coach. Didn't seem like anybody was to be seen when Villarreal were getting theirs or the trophy either. Again not a sign of great (or any) leadership from manager or captain. Acted like losing was beneath them. You lose a final you applaud the winners.
Click to expand...

Do you applaud the winners? Does this happen?

I've never noticed any professional team do that. They normally look like they want the ground to swallow them up.
 
Brophs said:
I suspect that might he the case. But if he can somehow persuade the Glazers to let him buy, say, Varane, Sancho and some fancy dan midfielder who can actually pass the pissing thing, I’d expect us to be a much better side and go closer. Irrespective of the fact that the manager looks to have maxed out whatever he has to offer. That’s the tricky thing. He’s right in that sweet spot of being good enough to offer some hope without ever really allowing many people turn that hope into expectation.
Click to expand...

Which is another problem exacerbated by losing this... We now seem one hell of a less promising prospect to the kind of ambitious and potentially World Class players we’d ideally want to sign this summer...

If we’d won, even playing poorly for 70 minutes, we could’ve plausibly still seemed like an elite club at the start of a new and promising winning cycle.... Now we seem like a perpetually stalled and problematic elite club, who can’t even eek past a Villarreal side with no notable names, and a manager not deemed good enough for Arsenal, with the likes of Pogba, Cavani and Fernandes!

Imagine another club of similar size and grandeur to us, with the players we have, losing a Europa League final to Villarreal!!?.... We’re a global football punchline now. Why would a Kane or a Harland, or even a Sancho for that matter, think we could deliver on the promise of PL and CL success for them? Knowing that we’re pretty dedicated to seeing how far we can push the whole Solskjaer experiment along? I mean I know we got Zlatan and Pogba to come here on a down curve a few years back, but that was also massively due to the then realistic notion that Mourinho was going to take us back to the top!... Whats the dream being sold now? ... that if we can convince enough top players to join, we can override the distinct lack of tactical acumen on show?

I know I’ve flip flopped on Ole a lot, and I’m really hoping I’ll be forced to do so again, but I’m feeling pretty pessimistic now about the prospect of another season with the same general problems that should’ve been addressed about 8 months ago
 
Bullhitter said:
Starting lineup was not good. He bottled it, didn't have the balls to make a decision to leave one of Rashford, Greenwood or Pogba on the bench.

No wonder most of the squad acted like spoilt brats collecting their medals, seems like "the boys" are just that and are constantly being pandered to and infantilised.
Click to expand...
:lol: What a weird thing to say. Should they have kissed the medals?
I really hope you win on Saturday, but if not then maybe your players can show us how to properly collect losers‘ medals?
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Rashford wants to play these Euros at any cost and the club seems to be doing everything to facilitate it for him
Click to expand...
I don't think it's fair to portray it that way, he played for us last year with a broken back and has played for months this season because Ole clearly doesn't trust anyone else. If it was just or mostly about the Euros he would have been out of the team well before now.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Silly hindsight.
Click to expand...
How is it hindsight when it was there to see before it happened? I don't see why you should not maximise your chances of winning. Henderson is by all evidence a very good penalty stopper while De Gea is at best average - but more likely worse than that. The manager should most certainly have been aware of this.
 
Don't get me wrong, we didn't have a proper impact player off the bench but when your players look that tired and leggy, you've got to make changes. It was a complete waste of half an hour.
 
I love Ole but he dodged the necessary decision to drop one of Pogba, Rashford or Greenwood. Instead he went for a soft target in Fred.

We ultimately paid the price in predictably poor performances from Pogba and Rashford. Pogba predictable as he was in CM and Rashford because that's how his form has been.
 
RORY65 said:
I don't think it's fair to portray it that way, he played for us last year with a broken back and has played for months this season because Ole clearly doesn't trust anyone else. If it was just or mostly about the Euros he would have been out of the team well before now.
Click to expand...
I don't blame him as such. I love Rashford and wish he was in top form. But if he has an injury, he has and it is better to get treated. Postponing the inevitable seems to be a bad idea
 
Status
Not open for further replies.