Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Ludens the Red]

This just oozes confirmation bias. They look similar to you because you only look at the things that fit the explanation you already have. Same goes for the scoring. Throw in a bit of conjecture and conceptual vagueness, and there you are.

If "most people's eyes" are telling them this isn't a team that plays attacking football, then they must have remarkably selective memories.

No, they look similar to me due to the numbers being similar.
So in the case of goals scored, the difference between the numbers 51 and 53 is 2 making them ‘similar’ numbers. If the numbers were say 51 and 75, these would then be dissimilar numbers.
It’s the same as for possession, under Mourinho our average possession was 55% under Ole its 55%. These numbers would not only be similar numbers, they would be identical numbers.

Of course I might be wrong, I may have interpreted the meaning of the word ‘similar’ wrongly all these years.
And actually 55 and 55, 51 and 53 are in fact completely different numbers.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Every manager gets burned. It takes guts to stick to your principals. The frustrating thing for me, is I think Ole has the makings of a good manager. He’s a student of the game. He analyses teams well. He’s a good man manager. And he’s one of our own. He’s had us playing some of the best football since Ferguson, no doubt. So he definitely has potential.

But his management of games is terrible. His lack of trust in his squad and his lack of risk. These are the things letting him down badly. And the problem is they will only get worse. He has driven our team into the ground. Now it’s tired and we’re in danger of falling just when we need to be strong. I am sure Chelsea will overtake us, it’s just a question of if anyone else can.

He needs to bring in better coaches, so that he’s less dependent on individual players. Then he can rotate those players out. He doesn’t need AWB at right back every game, he can try Brandon Willians or Tuanzebe. He could have used VDB far more often and should sub Rashford if he’s playing terrible and throw on Amad as a third sub just to give something different.

He’s paralysed into hoping his star players will just conjure something out of nothing just because they did it before.

But miracles sadly don’t always happen.

 

[FatherWolff]

Every manager gets burned. It takes guts to stick to your principals. The frustrating thing for me, is I think Ole has the makings of a good manager. He’s a student of the game. He analyses teams well. He’s a good man manager. And he’s one of our own. He’s had us playing some of the best football since Ferguson, no doubt. So he definitely has potential.

But his management of games is terrible. His lack of trust in his squad and his lack of risk. These are the things letting him down badly. And the problem is they will only get worse. He has driven our team into the ground. Now it’s tired and we’re in danger of falling just when we need to be strong. I am sure Chelsea will overtake us, it’s just a question of if anyone else can.

He needs to bring in better coaches, so that he’s less dependent on individual players. Then he can rotate those players out. He doesn’t need AWB at right back every game, he can try Brandon Willians or Tuanzebe. He could have used VDB far more often and should sub Rashford if he’s playing terrible and throw on Amad as a third sub just to give something different.

He’s paralysed into hoping his star players will just conjure something out of nothing just because they did it before.

But miracles sadly don’t always happen.

We don’t have a back line or midfield to “take risks”. When and why we have, we have been burned many times.. So what some call gutless is in reality failure to be stupid. When we need to, we go for it. Taking risk isn’t a guarantee for success, and right now we lack the energy in the team. Like most teams in football who have been playing two games every week.. Where the energy will come from I don’t know. Not from the fans this time, but I’m hoping after the international break.

 

[Hellboy]

Yes, i have seen your imaginary standards and lack of football experience and education. But that’s fine..

I am. I have followed many clubs since my childhood, and played for a few of them to. What’s great in smaller clubs are the community. Like UTD used to have.. Now, there is a reactionary online fanbase, who suddenly know the metrics of anatomy, detailed analytical knowledge and how people who have masters in the field are clueless and out of their depth. At the same time shoving how extremely little knowledge they possess.. I’m actually often thinking of leaving my support for UTD. Not for what the club was, but what it has become.

You’re full of it, if you had any football education you would never support this brand of football and clueless tactics like bringing in 3 defenders in Leipzig while wanting to win a game of football

The out of his depths ones are clearly the manager, who does not even know what player to sub while he’s the fecking manager, and the deluded cult that follows him blindly in hope of some miracle

Go on and support your local club yeah they must play 10 x better than this shower anyway and will be less of a pain to watch

@Mainoldo has been consistent and fair in his views all along and has been proved right despite all the abuse he got from the passion and United DNA cult

 

[Mainoldo]

Yes, i have seen your imaginary standards and lack of football experience and education. But that’s fine..

I am. I have followed many clubs since my childhood, and played for a few of them to. What’s great in smaller clubs are the community. Like UTD used to have.. Now, there is a reactionary online fanbase, who suddenly know the metrics of anatomy, detailed analytical knowledge and how people who have masters in the field are clueless and out of their depth. At the same time shoving how extremely little knowledge they possess.. I’m actually often thinking of leaving my support for UTD. Not for what the club was, but what it has become.

Yeah go. I say that respectfully too. The club wasn’t designed to attract a particular type of fan, like most football clubs aren’t. So the fact it doesn’t give you that community feel you use to get maybe you should search for that in other places. That generally tends to happen when you become globally the biggest football club in the world.

 

[FatherWolff]

You’re full of it, if you had any football education you would never support this brand of football and clueless tactics like bringing in 3 defenders in Leipzig while wanting to win a game of football

The out of his depths ones are clearly the manager, who does not even know what player to sub while he’s the fecking manager, and the deluded cult that follows him blindly in hope of some miracle

Go on and support your local club yeah they must play 10 x better than this shower anyway and will be less of a pain to watch

@Mainoldo has been consistent and fair in his views all along and has been proved right despite all the abuse he got from the passion and United DNA cult

Thank you for proving my point! The club is dying with fans like this..

 

[HailtotheKing]

We don’t have a back line or midfield to “take risks”. When and why we have, we have been burned many times.. So what some call gutless is in reality failure to be stupid. When we need to, we go for it. Taking risk isn’t a guarantee for success, and right now we lack the energy in the team. Like most teams in football who have been playing two games every week.. Where the energy will come from I don’t know. Not from the fans this time, but I’m hoping after the international break.

We don't have the back line because he refuses to play anyone except Maguire and Lindelof. By playing them we bring the whole team back to compensate for their lack of pace. We also have to play 2 defensive midfielders. This creates a huge gap to Bruno and the forward play. I don't understand why he didn't try Tuanzebe far more after he did so well in the PSG game. Sure, he'll occasionally have a bad game, he's young. But that's how players grow. He shoulda tried VDB more. He would have been perfect for Palace but sadly injured. He needs to try him in the midfield a bit instead of stubbornly making him Bruno's replacement or nothing. On the risk thing - throwing on Amad to try and get something from the game is not a risk to me. When players are playing so badly how could he be worse? Klopp took off Salah yesterday. Sure it didn't work but at least he tried it. When something clearly isn't working, you try something different, you don't just keep repeating the same old thing hoping it will work. And you stick a fire up people's ass if they're not performing. That gives other players a chance to prove themselves and it lets underperforming players know that they'll be off if they don't perform. That boosts the energy of everyone in the team. We don't do this. We have a bench that never plays so is stale when it comes on. And a team of players that know they'll never be dropped. The definition of lack of competition.

 

[FatherWolff]

We don't have the back line because he refuses to play anyone except Maguire and Lindelof. By playing them we bring the whole team back to compensate for their lack of pace. We also have to play 2 defensive midfielders. This creates a huge gap to Bruno and the forward play. I don't understand why he didn't try Tuanzebe far more after he did so well in the PSG game. Sure, he'll occasionally have a bad game, he's young. But that's how players grow. He shoulda tried VDB more. He would have been perfect for Palace but sadly injured. He needs to try him in the midfield a bit instead of stubbornly making him Bruno's replacement or nothing. On the risk thing - throwing on Amad to try and get something from the game is not a risk to me. When players are playing so badly how could he be worse? Klopp took off Salah yesterday. Sure it didn't work but at least he tried it. When something clearly isn't working, you try something different, you don't just keep repeating the same old thing hoping it will work. And you stick a fire up people's ass if they're not performing. That gives other players a chance to prove themselves and it lets underperforming players know that they'll be off if they don't perform. That boosts the energy of everyone in the team. We don't do this. We have a bench that never plays so is stale when it comes on. And a team of players that know they'll never be dropped. The definition of lack of competition.

I think if you want to objectively in your views, you would know Bailly only lasts about four games before he is out injured. That is a fact, and it needs both addressing and carefully managed. But I agree on Tuanzebe. Would like to see him more. But I also understand when we need players good on the ball. It’s about balancing it, but to an extent I agree.
I don’t think a constant fire up someone’s ass is the way athletes respond in this day and age, but sometimes a good kicking is good. All reports confirm they do from Ole. We are not covers in all spots to drop people, because the we drop to far. But I think the re introduction of James over Martial indicate we are doing what you want and still complaining about. I read some want to Chuck in Amand. But I think Ole is doing the right thing there to. I think we all agree we are not good enough at the moment. But football is difficult right now, and we need to get back in it. So then it’s your choice as a fan. Steal energy or give it ‍

 

[FatherWolff]

Yeah go. I say that respectfully too. The club wasn’t designed to attract a particular type of fan, like most football clubs aren’t. So the fact it doesn’t give you that community feel you use to get maybe you should search for that in other places. That generally tends to happen when you become globally the biggest football club in the world.

No. The Club attracted fans who wanted to be winners. And I highlight wants to. It’s human nature. But when science and facts goes out the window for agendas suiting that feeling of being a winner, it becomes a survival skill, and not being very productive. Progress is never linear unless you are a beam of light, and the people working at the club knows this.

I was never one of those who found comfort in a community of fans. But as a player it is the value you want to do your best for. Un educational reactionary rage you probably want to stay away from.
But thank you for your support! You are not the one who will push me out. But a hostile culture will...

 

[el3mel]

Yet again no names. Very easy to moan and complain but very reluctant to name who you'd want. Oh what a suprise

Your reasoning for keeping a manager shouldn't even be if there's other options or not. With this you are basically admitting he's not good enough but let's keep him because there's no other option I can think of ? At least the other Ole supporters here do seem to think he's good enough and the man for the job.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Your reasoning for keeping a manager shouldn't even be if there's other options or not. With this you are basically admitting he's not good enough but let's keep him because there's no other option I can think of ? At least the other Ole supporters here do seem to think he's good enough and the man for the job.

That's not fair at all. I haven't said that at all. I have never said we can't get a better manager than him. I have said who is there and can you really sack a manager who is 2nd place and has hit all his targets so far as Utd coach.

This squad isn't really capable of much more than top 3/4 finishes in my opinion. I think he's squeezed about as much as he can out of a lot them. If Pep was to hypothetically take over us in the summer he'd have to get rid of loads of them to play his style of football. Same applies to Klopp.

I get it that fans are frustrated and want PL titles. Time to wake up and smell the coffee though. The world's greatest head coach is across town armed with a much better squad and better owners.

If we bring in Allegri or maybe get Ancelotti from Everton.....can you honestly see us winning the league? Would we win it under Poch (even though he's now off the table)? I genuinely don't think any manager wins the title with this Utd squad. It's got too many weaknesses.

 

[el3mel]

That's not fair at all. I haven't said that at all. I have never said we can't get a better manager than him. I have said who is there and can you really sack a manager who is 2nd place and has hit all his targets so far as Utd coach.

This squad isn't really capable of much more than top 3/4 finishes in my opinion. I think he's squeezed about as much as he can out of a lot them. If Pep was to hypothetically take over us in the summer he'd have to get rid of loads of them to play his style of football. Same applies to Klopp.

I get it that fans are frustrated and want PL titles. Time to wake up and smell the coffee though. The world's greatest head coach is across town armed with a much better squad and better owners.

If we bring in Allegri or maybe get Ancelotti from Everton.....can you honestly see us winning the league? Would we win it under Poch (even though he's now off the table)? I genuinely don't think any manager wins the title with this Utd squad. It's got too many weaknesses.

I didn't say sack him either, I said if he doesn't challenge for the league next season as well we shouldn't renew his contract. He is getting next season regardless because I expect us to finish 2nd and win EL, but no challenge next season as well and +15 points away from the top and what will be the point of keeping him for a fourth season?

And it's a defeatist mentality to throw all our chances at challenging or winning the title just because City have a better team. We would have challenged them if we did our job, we didn't.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I didn't say sack him either, I said if he doesn't challenge for the league next season as well we shouldn't renew his contract. He is getting next season regardless because I expect us to finish 2nd and win EL, but no challenge next season as well and +15 points away from the top and what will be the point of keeping him for a fourth season?

And it's a defeatist mentality to throw all our chances at challenging or winning the title just because City have a better team. We would have challenged them if we did our job, we didn't.

Fair enough....however if he's given next to no budget this summer (rumours aren't great on that front) how on earth is he going to do this? Okay he could tweak one or two things and get say 5 to 10pts more max but that's not going to win the league either is it?

Ultimately he's not got a squad to win the league. Fans want to win the league. Our owners only care if we're in the CL and the ground is full (non covid times).

Recipe for disaster is it not?

 

[el3mel]

Fair enough....however if he's given next to no budget this summer (rumours aren't great on that front) how on earth is he going to do this? Okay he could tweak one or two things and get say 5 to 10pts more max but that's not going to win the league either is it?

Ultimately he's not got a squad to win the league. Fans want to win the league. Our owners only care if we're in the CL and the ground is full (non covid times).

Recipe for disaster is it not?

For me the current squad is good enough to put on a decent title challenge, won't say win it but we should provide nuisance to the team at the top next season. Well, we were this season till we mentally collapsed after going top.

But we can agree to disagree on this.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

For me the current squad is good enough to put on a decent title challenge, won't say win it but we should provide nuisance to the team at the top next season. Well, we were this season till we mentally collapsed after going top.

But we can agree to disagree on this.

Wan Bissaka, Maguire-Lindelof partnership, Fred, Mctomminay and whoever we play on the RW isn't a title challenging team. I'm sorry but it just isn't.

 

[anant]

Do you do ignore the two freak results against Leeds and Southampton when assessing our goalscoring?

The 1st three games were outliers in the season, because teams that were in europe just weren't physically up for it. The game in terms of % preparedness was not a level field even at the start of the game.

And yes, I wouldn't mind ignoring freak results like Southampton, etc. while judging quality of attack, even though teams started level

 

[Amir]

He’s petrified of losing & his job being in question, so he plays his trusted players into the ground, and sets us up to draw games.

Thats my take as well and it's a problem. You can't manage while so worried about self survival.

 

[el3mel]

Wan Bissaka, Maguire-Lindelof partnership, Fred, Mctomminay and whoever we play on the RW isn't a title challenging team. I'm sorry but it just isn't.

De Gea
Shaw - Lindelof - Maguire - AWB
Scott - Pogba
Bruno
Rashford - Cavani - Greenwood

I see no reason why this can't put a decent challenge for the league. I mean they were already doing it about a month ago.

 

[RedSky]

We would have challenged them if we did our job, we didn't.

In what way challenged? City haven't dropped points since the West Brom game on the 15th December. In that period they've conceded 5 goals in 15 games. No way can this squad follow that, the squad simply has too many weaknesses across the board and in places zero depth.

Just look at what United fans predicted at the start of the season, we were over achieving being at the top of the table and for me this season was one too early for a proper challenge. I said this at the start of the season and nothing has changed my opinion. Until our board decides to pull its finger out and actually bring in the quality required we will always continue to struggle. If City have an issue they double down and bring in two players to attempt to fix it. We fanny about and it's 50/50 whether we even end up with our first target let alone bringing in two. Be that an issue with Woodward, the investment from the Glazers, or the Manager picking targets that are unobtainable. But recruitment is ultimately our top issue and has been for years and years.

 

[Withnail]

You’re full of it, if you had any football education you would never support this brand of football and clueless tactics like bringing in 3 defenders in Leipzig while wanting to win a game of football

The out of his depths ones are clearly the manager, who does not even know what player to sub while he’s the fecking manager, and the deluded cult that follows him blindly in hope of some miracle

Go on and support your local club yeah they must play 10 x better than this shower anyway and will be less of a pain to watch

@Mainoldo has been consistent and fair in his views all along and has been proved right despite all the abuse he got from the passion and United DNA cult

Wow

 

[darko]

Every manager gets burned. It takes guts to stick to your principals. The frustrating thing for me, is I think Ole has the makings of a good manager. He’s a student of the game. He analyses teams well. He’s a good man manager. And he’s one of our own. He’s had us playing some of the best football since Ferguson, no doubt. So he definitely has potential.

But his management of games is terrible. His lack of trust in his squad and his lack of risk. These are the things letting him down badly. And the problem is they will only get worse. He has driven our team into the ground. Now it’s tired and we’re in danger of falling just when we need to be strong. I am sure Chelsea will overtake us, it’s just a question of if anyone else can.

He needs to bring in better coaches, so that he’s less dependent on individual players. Then he can rotate those players out. He doesn’t need AWB at right back every game, he can try Brandon Willians or Tuanzebe. He could have used VDB far more often and should sub Rashford if he’s playing terrible and throw on Amad as a third sub just to give something different.

He’s paralysed into hoping his star players will just conjure something out of nothing just because they did it before.

But miracles sadly don’t always happen.

I pretty much agree with everything you've written.

 

[Mainoldo]

Wow

Ah you. Stop it!!

 

[anant]

I didn't say sack him either, I said if he doesn't challenge for the league next season as well we shouldn't renew his contract. He is getting next season regardless because I expect us to finish 2nd and win EL, but no challenge next season as well and +15 points away from the top and what will be the point of keeping him for a fourth season?

And it's a defeatist mentality to throw all our chances at challenging or winning the title just because City have a better team. We would have challenged them if we did our job, we didn't.

Did anyone expect us to finish above City this season? They clearly have the better side, a deeper side and a side where most players are in their 'peak years'.

A simple exercise would be - if you can select a starting XI consisting of just PL players based on current ability, how many Utd players will feature in that XI. Bruno arguably would. Maguire and Shaw maybe would. And that's it.

Now make a starting XI among the current crop of players in PL that you think will be in PL best XI 3-4 years from now - You'd probably have Shaw (he'd still be 29-30), Rashford and Greenwood are going to be there, You can make a case for Amad. AWB would have an outside shout and there are some promising kids in the academy as well.

Now, mind I'm not saying, it'd take us 3-4 years to realistically win the league, but all I'm saying is the side is still pretty young, and a lot of the shit decision making, and inconsistency is because of them being immature rather than some tactical issue. I still hope that we put together a decent title challenge next year, but that would be possible only if we actually spend money to get our top targets instead of faffing around looking for value in market and eventually buying our 5th choice target

 

[Eriku]

Do you do ignore the two freak results against Leeds and Southampton when assessing our goalscoring?

Wasn’t he talking about our defensive record? At least that’s what was highlighted.

 

[Withnail]

Ah you. Stop it!!

Come on, half the time you're playing devil's advocate. It can be entertaining but it's hardly consistent and fair.

 

[AgentSmith]

Every manager gets burned. It takes guts to stick to your principals. The frustrating thing for me, is I think Ole has the makings of a good manager. He’s a student of the game. He analyses teams well. He’s a good man manager. And he’s one of our own. He’s had us playing some of the best football since Ferguson, no doubt. So he definitely has potential.

But his management of games is terrible. His lack of trust in his squad and his lack of risk. These are the things letting him down badly. And the problem is they will only get worse. He has driven our team into the ground. Now it’s tired and we’re in danger of falling just when we need to be strong. I am sure Chelsea will overtake us, it’s just a question of if anyone else can.

He needs to bring in better coaches, so that he’s less dependent on individual players. Then he can rotate those players out. He doesn’t need AWB at right back every game, he can try Brandon Willians or Tuanzebe. He could have used VDB far more often and should sub Rashford if he’s playing terrible and throw on Amad as a third sub just to give something different.

He’s paralysed into hoping his star players will just conjure something out of nothing just because they did it before.

But miracles sadly don’t always happen.

What do you think Ole’s principles are as a manager?

I’m sincerely asking btw - not trying to troll you into an Ole In/Ole out argument.

I would be hard pressed to come up with a genuine answer beyond a double pivot midfield system.

 

[He'sRaldo]

He’s petrified of losing & his job being in question, so he plays his trusted players into the ground, and sets us up to draw games.

Yup, plays them through injury as well. Clear as day he's managing with fear and it's affecting our players, Rashford especially.

 

[Mainoldo]

Come on, half the time you're playing devil's advocate. It can be entertaining but it's hardly consistent and fair.

Yeah but when I’m actually talking about Ole, my points consistently the same. Out his depth

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Shut up you clown

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Shut up you clown

Christ that is so annoying to read

 

[Mainoldo]

Shut up you clown

Needs to be embargoed.

 

[Idxomer]

His statements are nonsensical most of the time.

 

[Water Melon]

Shut up you clown

Deluded.

 

[PoTMS]

He doesn't do himself any favours.

 

[Foxbatt]

No one expected or expects us to win the PL this season. But unlike some here many of us except us to beat the bottom two clubs and most of the clubs below us.
It's idiotic to support him over the Club. There is no point in sacking him now because there is no one available now. But if he doesn't progress, which is second place and a trophy then he should be sacked end of the season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Oh no, @FatherWolff is gonna stop being a fan.

The lifelo... I mean "followed many clubs since childhood" United fan is deserting us, because these days fans are reactionary. You couldn't make it up.

United fans have always demanded more, it's why a couple 3rd placed finishes and two FA Cups weren't enough to keep Big Ron in the job, and we all wanted him gone if we're honest, it's not a fecking new internet sensation, it's fandom, it's always been stupid as feck and always will be. Dave Sexton the same, finished 2nd did Dave, but boring as feck and everyone wanted him fecked right off.

I'll tell you what is new, is this breed of internet fan who thinks he's a better fan than everyone else, cause he's patient, cause he cares, cause he's non-reactionary and just an all round awesome dude on the internet, the kind of fan any club could only dream of. Nauseating as feck.

 

[Foxbatt]

Oh no, FatherWolff is gonna stop being a fan.

The lifelo... I mean "followed many clubs since childhood" United fan is deserting us, because these days fans are reactionary. You couldn't make it up.

United fans have always demanded more, it's why a couple 3rd placed finishes and two FA Cups weren't enough to keep Big Ron in the job, and we all wanted him gone if we're honest, it's not a fecking new internet sensation, it's fandom, it's always been stupid as feck and always will be.

Always were. But lots of fans are supporters from the old days. I have seen us go to the old 2nd division and the average attendance at OT was the highest. Higher than any club in the 1st division too. There are fans of managers and they come and they go. It happens and it will continue to happen.

 

[Sarni]

Just not reflecting in our quality of football, performances or results even after 2 years, yeh ok.

Spent £135m on two defenders but, 18 months on, somehow the defence is doing worse than last season by every metric, this despite having two sitting midfielders in front of them every game.

Martial and Rashford have definitely improved significantly as well I guess.

It's literally reflected in all of quality of football, performances and results.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Always were. But lots of fans are supporters from the old days. I have seen us go to the old 2nd division and the average attendance at OT was the highest. Higher than any club in the 1st division too. There are fans of managers and they come and they go. It happens and it will continue to happen.

Aye, you crack on, support them regardless of how shit they have been and can be.
If you're not happy about things, you moan, be it at the pub, in the ground, on the bus to work or to your poor missus before bed, it's always been this way. The only thing that has changed is that we can moan about shit with like minded folk online; and as I say, we do have a new breed of utter goons who think it's their online responsibility to tell us how to be better fans.

 

[Sarni]

Oh no, @FatherWolff is gonna stop being a fan.

The lifelo... I mean "followed many clubs since childhood" United fan is deserting us, because these days fans are reactionary. You couldn't make it up.

United fans have always demanded more, it's why a couple 3rd placed finishes and two FA Cups weren't enough to keep Big Ron in the job, and we all wanted him gone if we're honest, it's not a fecking new internet sensation, it's fandom, it's always been stupid as feck and always will be. Dave Sexton the same, finished 2nd did Dave, but boring as feck and everyone wanted him fecked right off.

I'll tell you what is new, is this breed of internet fan who thinks he's a better fan than everyone else, cause he's patient, cause he cares, cause he's non-reactionary and just an all round awesome dude on the internet, the kind of fan any club could only dream of. Nauseating as feck.

Good job we did not fire Fergie after fans got impatient with him then. In the internet era he would be getting death threats from the group on here after his second season, and would probably actually be murdered after 89-90. I don't think anyone on here would even forgive him after 5 titles.