Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Foxbatt said:
He took a team that came 2nd in the PL and then the manager imploded because he could not get Maguire and had a fight with Pogba. We may not win the PL but if we had beaten Sheffield United, Everton, WBA and West Ham we would be within reach of City with this weekend game to come. All these games were extremely winnable. He should be sacked because he is incompetent to be in charge of the biggest club in the World. He could not even hire competent coaches to assist him. He is way out of his depth. If Moyes was Ole is much more. At least Moyes managed a decent size club for a long time.
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This is the bit they all conveniently ignore of course. At the time the same people i guarantee were claiming this was a title squad being ruined by Jose because we had countless threads on that. Ole took over to his great start and they all jumped up and down saying i told you so.

Now over time it's become rebuilding after the greater depression and we're lucky to secure top 4. That's despite additional funding for better players they claim as good signings. Does that make any sense?

It's the main reason i can't be bothered to debate most of them. It's just not honest debate they constantly shift the goalposts.
 
b82REZ said:
Do you ever contribute any form of football discussion? Because any post I see from you is you slagging off people that disagree with you but you never offer any form of debate around the subject (you know, the whole point of a forum).

This is exactly the problem with the football forums nowadays, and is exacerbated by newbies being given access to the mains early. It's really lowered the tone of the forum and helped contribute to the death of nuanced debate.
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Yeah because there’s not any posts in here by people who’ve been on here years comparing people who think that Ole is a good manager to “deluded trump supporters” and “cult members” because they think Solskjaer is doing a good job. I hope you’ve replied to those people and asked them to have a nuanced debate, or do you only have a problem with people who are new to the forum?

Every draw is talked about as a 6 nil loss. I’m not going to insult anyone who doesn’t rate Solskjaer, but I don’t mind insulting the people who post hundreds of posts wanting Ole sacked because we are second in the table to 21 wins in a row Man City, in Solskjaers second full season.

Anyway hard to get involved in debates when you only have 5 posts a day isn’t it and now I’ve wasted one replying to you.
 
justsomebloke said:
It seems a tad optimistic to assume that what we're currently having here would qualify as "nuanced debate" if all the newbies contributions were removed.
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Didn't say this specific debate was nuanced, but it could be. The rhetoric is often shifted when someone makes a point or insults are just thrown around rather than discussing the issue.

For example there seems to be new trend of dismissing peoples opinion if they're unable to make a list of credible alternatives to Ole as if that somehow proves Ole is the only manager for us. This isn't exclusive to newbies by any stretch, but the poster I quoted only ever seems to contribute negativity and offers naught in terms of actual discussion about the manager.

There's nothing wrong with supporting the manager, nor is there a problem having concerns over his ability. The constant In/Out debate is tired and has been the main contributor of killing debate on the forums.
 
Cast5 said:
Yeah because there’s not any posts in here by people who’ve been on here years comparing people who think that Ole is a good manager to “deluded trump supporters” and “cult members” because they think Solskjaer is doing a good job. I hope you’ve replied to those people and asked them to have a nuanced debate, or do you only have a problem with people who are new to the forum?

Every draw is talked about as a 6 nil loss. I’m not going to insult anyone who doesn’t rate Solskjaer, but I don’t mind insulting the people who post hundreds of posts wanting Ole sacked because we are second in the table to 21 wins in a row Man City, in Solskjaers second full season.

Anyway hard to get involved in debates when you only have 5 posts a day isn’t it and now I’ve wasted one replying to you.
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But typing out a one sentence post saying OleOutters are all Karens made the most of your 5 posts a day?

You'll be stuck on 5 posts a day for a long time if that is your contribution to the forum.
 
b82REZ said:
Didn't say this specific debate was nuanced, but it could be. The rhetoric is often shifted when someone makes a point or insults are just thrown around rather than discussing the issue.

For example there seems to be new trend of dismissing peoples opinion if they're unable to make a list of credible alternatives to Ole as if that somehow proves Ole is the only manager for us. This isn't exclusive to newbies by any stretch, but the poster I quoted only ever seems to contribute negativity and offers naught in terms of actual discussion about the manager.

There's nothing wrong with supporting the manager, nor is there a problem having concerns over his ability. The constant In/Out debate is tired and has been the main contributor of killing debate on the forums.
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Frankly I'm not surprised when new posters just express outrage or exasperation over the attitude they encounter in these discussions. I think that is widely shared by many seasoned posters too, it's just they've gotten to a point where they just stay away from the forum whenever there's a bad game because they know that's going to cause shitshow meltdown discussions. It just goes off the handle beyond all reason, and there's a limit to the amount of hysterics people are prepared to engage with. also, it tends to be rather pointless. If people have just convinced themselves that we were playing for a draw at Palace because the players are cowards and OGS' only concern is top 4 - none of which anyone has any basis for knowing - there's not really any point in engaging them in discussion.
 
Rolaholic said:


Bit mad innit...
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yeah it is, I'm not sure what Ole is playing at honestly. Fatigue clearly impacted the end of his first two seasons here, and now it's happening again.

We have a decent squad now and can rotate a bit. Even if he feels we can't rotate in the league, why on earth play Bruno in that second leg 4-0 up? It's mental.
 
I do not think we will finish second. Chelsea are likely to finish above us imo. I hope die hard Ole fans are ready to bet on the opposite. There is still a 4 point gap between us and the Chavs.
 
Rolaholic said:


Bit mad innit...
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It's because he doesn't have or trust the other options. Harry might have had more rest if Axel and Bailly had been injured so often. I would play AWB rather than Brandon Williams. We are in the middle of a midfield injury crisis. What is the option rather than Rashford. He had to take James out of the firing line because the lad was getting that much criticism. Trouble for Ole is that I am not sure it will change in the summer. We need quality, but think we will be shopping in the bargain basement. He might be lucky and get one good player.
 
Water Melon said:
I do not think we will finish second. Chelsea are likely to finish above us imo. I hope die hard Ole fans are ready to bet on the opposite. There is still a 4 point gap between us and the Chavs.
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That is now a real possibility, whereas if they had dropped points at Anfield and we had beaten Palace, it would have looked most unlikely. Chelsea has 6 games remaining against top half sides, we have 5. We can afford to lose at Etihad, but we really cannot afford to drop points against lower half teams.
 
Leroy The Red said:
There is a lot truth to all of this.

But....

I can’t speak for anyone else but my issue is not our results, league positions, or finishing behind city and Liverpool. I expect it hell I’ll accept it.
My issue is the shite football and I think that’s the same for a lot of others.

When Mourinho was here he was up against the same conditions. Finished 2nd and won trophies yet people loathed him because of our style. Just because it’s Ole doesn’t mean people are suddenly going to be okay with it.

The whole selling point of Ole being our manager was that he’d come in and be completely different to Mourinho and LVG. He’d take risks, he’s play expansive, he’d bring some of the old swagger back, he understood United fans need to see us play on the front foot.

At this point two and a half years in, I’m seeing the same pragmatic, cautious, unadventurous, tedious approach to games that I saw under LvG and Mourinho.
If we’re gonna sit back and watch city and Liverpool win all the big trophies, at least we need to go down swinging. Not pathetically drawing to the likes of palace and west Brom and barely even trying to win the games.
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pretty much agree.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
This of course.
The points tally is significant because it shows how many shit points you’re dropping to the likes of Crystal Palace Sheff United et cetera. Sure some years a few teams will be better but also in other years the likes of Sheff United will be significantly worse. But the last few seasons have seen City and Liverpool get almost 100 points and City look likely to get 90+ again this year without a striker, so the league isn’t this significantly amazingly one where it’s hard to pick up points.

The fax sadly are that he took over a team that had just finished with 80+ points a few months before, has spent over 300 million and we look likely for the third season running to end with less than 70 points.

I really worry that the idea we have of “progress” is simply down to us having a much more likeable manager, a much more likeable team, and a team that is much more capable on rare occasions of producing some incredible, fast, counter-attacking football that we all love to see.
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current rate is on course for approx 70 ish. So we kinda treading water. Kinda
 
DomesticTadpole said:
It's because he doesn't have or trust the other options. Trouble for Ole is that I am not sure it will change in the summer. We need quality, but think we will be shopping in the bargain basement. He might be lucky and get one good player.
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It's the latter.
He okay'd a 40 million midfielder with a terrific touch and lethal finishing and he's thrown him on 2 minutes here and there in the league and he has frozen out Mata, who has had 2 man of the match performances earlier in the season according to the Caf.

Cast5 said:
Every draw is talked about as a 6 nil loss. I’m not going to insult anyone who doesn’t rate Solskjaer, but I don’t mind insulting the people who post hundreds of posts wanting Ole sacked because we are second in the table to 21 wins in a row Man City, in Solskjaers second full season.
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A lot of fans get emotional and use the Caf to vent. View those posts through that lens. If you notice a poster that's so negative that they lessen your enjoyment of reading the Caf, put them on ignore.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Ah, the example of possibly the best team in history, that's me shown.
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If you're confusing a statement that includes Bud Spencer and Terence Hill for an actual example I don't know what to say :lol:
 
LovelyLittlePanda said:
It's the latter.
He okay'd a 40 million midfielder with a terrific touch and lethal finishing and he's thrown him on 2 minutes here and there in the league and he has frozen out Mata, who has had 2 man of the match performances earlier in the season according to the Caf.



A lot of fans get emotional and use the Caf to vent. View those posts through that lens. If you notice a poster that's so negative that they lessen your enjoyment of reading the Caf, put them on ignore.


If you're confusing a statement that includes Bud Spencer and Terence Hill for an actual example I don't know what to say :lol:
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I definitely agree about VDB and Mata, they have been woefully underused and I think VDB should have been in Pogba's position when Pogba wasn't playing. Funny enough if you play a few games on the run, you get form and build an understanding with your teammates.
 
LovelyLittlePanda said:
Yes, before the UAE had built City. Take them out of the equation and we would have won the league once even with our terrible post SAF management.
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Erm we’ve won three league titles since they took over. Football didn’t start in 2012!
Also Chelsea have won three league titles, Leicester and a Liverpool a title one since the takeover. So they’ve actually not won the title in more years than they have since the takeover.
 
Leroy The Red said:
There is a lot truth to all of this.

But....

I can’t speak for anyone else but my issue is not our results, league positions, or finishing behind city and Liverpool. I expect it hell I’ll accept it.
My issue is the shite football and I think that’s the same for a lot of others.

When Mourinho was here he was up against the same conditions. Finished 2nd and won trophies yet people loathed him because of our style. Just because it’s Ole doesn’t mean people are suddenly going to be okay with it.

The whole selling point of Ole being our manager was that he’d come in and be completely different to Mourinho and LVG. He’d take risks, he’s play expansive, he’d bring some of the old swagger back, he understood United fans need to see us play on the front foot.

At this point two and a half years in, I’m seeing the same pragmatic, cautious, unadventurous, tedious approach to games that I saw under LvG and Mourinho.
If we’re gonna sit back and watch city and Liverpool win all the big trophies, at least we need to go down swinging. Not pathetically drawing to the likes of palace and west Brom and barely even trying to win the games.
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Then you're giving far too much room to your short term memory. We are second in goals scored. We have not been higher than 4th in any year since SAF retired. If you consider the period since Bruno's arrival as a whole, it would probably be fair to say we've been the most dynamic offensive team in the PL. The fact that we've been struggling for a few weeks does not alter that.

Mourinho's approach was completely different to LVGs, and OGS's is completely different to either of them. Surely that should be obvious.
 
Smores said:
This is the bit they all conveniently ignore of course. At the time the same people i guarantee were claiming this was a title squad being ruined by Jose because we had countless threads on that. Ole took over to his great start and they all jumped up and down saying i told you so.

Now over time it's become rebuilding after the greater depression and we're lucky to secure top 4. That's despite additional funding for better players they claim as good signings. Does that make any sense?

It's the main reason i can't be bothered to debate most of them. It's just not honest debate they constantly shift the goalposts.
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Yup agree with this. You also forgot the "he needs a preseason and a transfer window" narrative.

Why is it so hard for people to admit he just isn't good enough? It's no surprise. Most of us knew this 2.5 years ago.
 
Rolaholic said:


Bit mad innit...
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The thing is, who do you suggest as an alternative internally? Martial and Greenwood have dropped off, VdB too often flatters to deceive, and Maguire has been the one CB we've been able to keep consistently fit. The only one I think we could possibly have rotated more was AWB with Williams, but it seems the latter has fallen out of favour.

Posting that table is stupid as well when you consider that we've rotated the most out of everyone in the league this season with there being 3-5 changes regularly each game. It's also reflected in our injury record being at its best in a long, long while - in this season of all seasons too. The only exceptions are Maguire, Bruno, and Rashford but that is literally because they are our most important players and we have very little in the way of adequate back ups for them.
 
justsomebloke said:
Then you're giving far too much room to your short term memory. We are second in goals scored. We have not been higher than 4th in any year since SAF retired. If you consider the period since Bruno's arrival as a whole, it would probably be fair to say we've been the most dynamic offensive team in the PL. The fact that we've been struggling for a few weeks does not alter that.

Mourinho's approach was completely different to LVGs, and OGS's is completely different to either of them. Surely that should be obvious.
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You’ve made the mistake of not focusing on the actual Man United statistics. I care about Man United. I judge things in comparison to what former United teams did.

This season we’ve scored 53 goals after 27 games.
We scored 51 goals after 27 games under Mourinho in 2017/2018. And when you factor in penalties we’ve scored less from open play.

Now if someone even suggested we were one of the most ‘dynamic offensive teams’ back then under Mourinho, they’d have been sectioned. The statistics haven’t changed much so how come all of a sudden we’re a ‘dynamically offensive team’? Because Oles nice and Mourinho isn’t?

Whether it’s gone from the 4th best in the league to 2nd best just isn’t really relevant when measuring it as an overall picture of the development of Uniteds attacking prowess. It’s not as if there’s been a dramatic change in the dynamic of football in the last four years.

I don’t know how many more times people need to post comparison stats between us now and under Mourinho to show they are very very similar to stop people arguing otherwise. Most people’s eyes are telling them our football is below average, the statistics say the same yet we’re still getting posts like yours.

Their tactical approaches are different but what should be obvious is that wasn’t what I was talking about. I’m talking more about their overall philosophical approaches.
Low risk and pragmatic managers. Very rarely deviate from their tactical set up during games. Changing formation etc
Appearing to make substitutions that have been determined pre game as opposed to reacting to what’s going on in the match ( Van gaal subbing full backs, Mourinho subbing Martial and Rashford and Ole taking off Greenwood). The similarities between all three are actually quite staggering when it comes to those basics.
 
rotherham_red said:
The thing is, who do you suggest as an alternative internally? Martial and Greenwood have dropped off, VdB too often flatters to deceive, and Maguire has been the one CB we've been able to keep consistently fit. The only one I think we could possibly have rotated more was AWB with Williams, but it seems the latter has fallen out of favour.

Posting that table is stupid as well when you consider that we've rotated the most out of everyone in the league this season with there being 3-5 changes regularly each game. It's also reflected in our injury record being at its best in a long, long while - in this season of all seasons too. The only exceptions are Maguire, Bruno, and Rashford but that is literally because they are our most important players and we have very little in the way of adequate back ups for them.
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It isn't because we don't have backups we obviously do for each and every one of them. It's that our manager doesn't think he can win even the easiest of games if he dares play one of the backups.

Are you honestly trying to say you don't think there's any games where they could have been rested? Just one of them at a time?
 
Rolaholic said:


Bit mad innit...
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I complain about Ole a lot, but not regarding this. We play in Europe and have gone far in the cups so of course plays our players the most. I guess Pep could have too, but he rotates a crazy amount and his main man De Bruyne got injured.

He has still rotated a decent amount to be fair. I guess playing Maguire all the time might not be needed, but I do think Maguire can manage if anyone.

He should take off Bruno and Rashford earlier in games though I think.
 
Smores said:
It isn't because we don't have backups we obviously do for each and every one of them. It's that our manager doesn't think he can win even the easiest of games if he dares play one of the backups.

Are you honestly trying to say you don't think there's any games where they could have been rested? Just one of them at a time?
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Ok genius, tell me, who are these back ups that you feel Ole can rely on to get the results?

I'd also suggest you take a look at the games they've played too. We have tried to rest them either or both at various points this season (Leipzig at home, Liverpool and Watford in the Cup, West Ham away in the league from the top of my head) but the back ups seem incapable of stepping up.

The only egregious inclusion for me is Sociedad in the second leg. Otherwise, it's been fine.
 
To sack him now would be crazy. However a competent board would be at least preparing for who could replace ole in the summer if things go bad (whether we have a competent board is a different discussion). Our form seems to have stalled and it’s a real possibility we could drop out of the top 4 if others find their form before us, we have some big games coming up against sides around us which could make or break ole’s future
 
rotherham_red said:
Ok genius, tell me, who are these back ups that you feel Ole can rely on to get the results?

I'd also suggest you take a look at the games they've played too. We have tried to rest them either or both at various points this season (Leipzig at home, Liverpool and Watford in the Cup, West Ham away in the league from the top of my head) but the back ups seem incapable of stepping up.

The only egregious inclusion for me is Sociedad in the second leg. Otherwise, it's been fine.
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This is silly. It wasn't long ago that we were 1st and everyone was hailing our squad depth. Now all of sudden, according to you, we have none. Other than City, who else has two first XIs?

Problem is our manager can't actually improve anyone.
 
rotherham_red said:
Ok genius, tell me, who are these back ups that you feel Ole can rely on to get the results?

I'd also suggest you take a look at the games they've played too. We have tried to rest them either or both at various points this season (Leipzig at home, Liverpool and Watford in the Cup, West Ham away in the league from the top of my head) but the back ups seem incapable of stepping up.

The only egregious inclusion for me is Sociedad in the second leg. Otherwise, it's been fine.
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Well ain't you a treat.

So let's look at the games they've all played in as a group and you can tell me if you believe a single rotation would be insurmountable for any manager.

West Brom, Istanbul, Sheffield, Leeds, Burnley, Sheffield, Southampton, West Brom, Newcastle, Palace. I'm sure I've missed some and these are only with all 4.

Leeds we waited until our 6th goal and 71 minutes before taking off Bruno and Rashford. We were 4-1 up at half time but apparently our backups aren't good enough. Even a few games ago for some reason with a 2 goal lead Rashford didn't come off until the 89th minute.

If the manager wants to play only his best players and make late subs fine but let's not pretend he has no choice. If they start to hit fatigue or injuries it's on his decisions.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
This is silly. It wasn't long ago that we were 1st and everyone was hailing our squad depth. Now all of sudden, according to you, we have none. Other than City, who else has two first XIs?

Problem is our manager can't actually improve anyone.
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A lot of players have regressed as well. After spending 150 million on the defence we now need more defenders.
 
Sarni said:
He's improved us very significantly.
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Just not reflecting in our quality of football, performances or results even after 2 years, yeh ok.

Spent £135m on two defenders but, 18 months on, somehow the defence is doing worse than last season by every metric, this despite having two sitting midfielders in front of them every game. :lol:

Martial and Rashford have definitely improved significantly as well I guess.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
This is silly. It wasn't long ago that we were 1st and everyone was hailing our squad depth. Now all of sudden, according to you, we have none. Other than City, who else has two first XIs?

Problem is our manager can't actually improve anyone.
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Rashford is having his best season right now. Martial had his best season at united under Ole. Greenwood has become a lot more complete this season.

Shaw has gone from "pizza delivery guy" to the best LB in the league and arguably top 3 LBs in the world. AWB has become better going forward, a lot better. Lindelof's best football at united has come under Ole.

McT has gone from not good enough for a tea of United's size to a fine player. Fred has gone from one of the club's biggest flop signings to a decent one. No one expected Bruno to have the level of output he's having at United, and Pogba's best football at united at United has also come under Ole.

I mean, go back to December 18, and one would say that apart from DDG and Rashford, everyone required replacing. Now we're what 3 players short of a great side? If that's not progress then what is this?
 
hobbers said:
Just not reflecting in our quality of football, performances or results even after 2 years, yeh ok.

Spent £135m on two defenders but, 18 months on, somehow the defence is doing worse than last season by every metric, this despite having two sitting midfielders in front of them every game. :lol:

Martial and Rashford have definitely improved significantly as well I guess.
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Remove the 1st three games, and the record is not really that bad. It's actually similar to last season, if not better.
 
anant said:
Remove the 1st three games, and the record is not really that bad. It's actually similar to last season, if not better.
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Do you do ignore the two freak results against Leeds and Southampton when assessing our goalscoring?
 
Relfy said:
Did you watch the football during Moyes' time in charge? You remember we were champions the season before and we ended up 7th? We've had Moyes, LVG and Jose in charge since Fergie and not one of them has secured successive seasons in the champions league. We are currently on course to qualify for the CL again, we're 2nd in the league, we are 14 points better off at this stage compared to last season, so surely this is progress? Do you honestly believe that we can go from floating between CL and non-CL seasons into PL winners? We finished 3rd last season and added to our squad with a backup left back, a 34 year old free signing & Donny (with Amad now joining properly of course). There is a lot of squad rebuilding to go before we are the finished article.

I have no issue with people being critical of certain results, performances, or games where we are flat, it happens and no one likes to see it. I get as frustrated as anyone, but you have to look at the bigger picture. We are getting better, but we are not there yet. Have some patience and please don't rewrite history to make it suit a narrative.
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Yes and even before fergie too. It's that the rebuilding process Moyes always talked. Now after 2 seasons Ole is still talking about rebuilding. What rebuilding if we can't beat Sheffield United, WBA, and Crystal Palace. I would accept losing to City but this is ridiculous if anyone thinks it's progress. The season has not ended and the momentum is not with us. We probably would not end up in second place the way things are going.
City doesn't even have to win against us to keep their huge lead on us.
 
Leroy The Red said:
You’ve made the mistake of not focusing on the actual Man United statistics. I care about Man United. I judge things in comparison to what former United teams did.

This season we’ve scored 53 goals after 27 games.
We scored 51 goals after 27 games under Mourinho in 2017/2018. And when you factor in penalties we’ve scored less from open play.

Now if someone even suggested we were one of the most ‘dynamic offensive teams’ back then under Mourinho, they’d have been sectioned. The statistics haven’t changed much so how come all of a sudden we’re a ‘dynamically offensive team’? Because Oles nice and Mourinho isn’t?

Whether it’s gone from the 4th best in the league to 2nd best just isn’t really relevant when measuring it as an overall picture of the development of Uniteds attacking prowess. It’s not as if there’s been a dramatic change in the dynamic of football in the last four years.

I don’t know how many more times people need to post comparison stats between us now and under Mourinho to show they are very very similar to stop people arguing otherwise. Most people’s eyes are telling them our football is below average, the statistics say the same yet we’re still getting posts like yours.

Their tactical approaches are different but what should be obvious is that wasn’t what I was talking about. I’m talking more about their overall philosophical approaches.
Low risk and pragmatic managers. Very rarely deviate from their tactical set up during games. Changing formation etc
Appearing to make substitutions that have been determined pre game as opposed to reacting to what’s going on in the match ( Van gaal subbing full backs, Mourinho subbing Martial and Rashford and Ole taking off Greenwood). The similarities between all three are actually quite staggering when it comes to those basics.
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This just oozes confirmation bias. They look similar to you because you only look at the things that fit the explanation you already have. Same goes for the scoring. Throw in a bit of conjecture and conceptual vagueness, and there you are.

If "most people's eyes" are telling them this isn't a team that plays attacking football, then they must have remarkably selective memories.
 
Smores said:
Well ain't you a treat.

So let's look at the games they've all played in as a group and you can tell me if you believe a single rotation would be insurmountable for any manager.

West Brom, Istanbul, Sheffield, Leeds, Burnley, Sheffield, Southampton, West Brom, Newcastle, Palace. I'm sure I've missed some and these are only with all 4.

Leeds we waited until our 6th goal and 71 minutes before taking off Bruno and Rashford. We were 4-1 up at half time but apparently our backups aren't good enough. Even a few games ago for some reason with a 2 goal lead Rashford didn't come off until the 89th minute.

If the manager wants to play only his best players and make late subs fine but let's not pretend he has no choice. If they start to hit fatigue or injuries it's on his decisions.
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Exactly. Our squad should be good enough to beat 90% of the teams. A properly coached team should be able to take out a single player to rest them, even for just a half) and for that team to function. It’s the fact that we rely on individual brilliance so much that he just darent risk it. And even when we’re winning games he won’t take them off till the very very end. He is a risk averse manager.
 
HailtotheKing said:
Exactly. Our squad should be good enough to beat 90% of the teams. A properly coached team should be able to take out a single player to rest them, even for just a half) and for that team to function. It’s the fact that we rely on individual brilliance so much that he just darent risk it. And even when we’re winning games he won’t take them off till the very very end. He is a risk averse manager.
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He tried resting players in Istanbul and that effectively took us from the top of the champions league group to the Europa league. I can see why he would be acting like he got his hands burnt once.
 
Mainoldo said:
Have you seen my standards? I don’t think I qualify.

Maybe you do though.. I’m sure you’d make a great lower league fan. Don’t have to worry about things like the Prem title or Champions league... etc.
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Yes, i have seen your imaginary standards and lack of football experience and education. But that’s fine..

I am. I have followed many clubs since my childhood, and played for a few of them to. What’s great in smaller clubs are the community. Like UTD used to have.. Now, there is a reactionary online fanbase, who suddenly know the metrics of anatomy, detailed analytical knowledge and how people who have masters in the field are clueless and out of their depth. At the same time shoving how extremely little knowledge they possess.. I’m actually often thinking of leaving my support for UTD. Not for what the club was, but what it has become.
 
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