Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Nou_Camp99 said:
Well given Pep had only just joined City and hadn't got his team together no real surprise on Conte. Look at that how turned out though. Think Pep won that battle. Not the Greatest of examples. This situation isn't the same. Pep is settled now in England. His team is too.

As for Klopp....that's a fairer argument and I still don't know to this day how he pulled it off. Laporte missing for City and them not replacing Kompany really killed them. So again this point is moot as they have now replaced Kompany and even Stones is back to his best too.

So yeah okay them. Go find me a Jürgen Klopp mark II and I will jump on the Ole out bandwagon.

This is the part where you have to name your guy. Easy to mock Ole and not give a solution. Who is this magic guy who is going to take us to the next stage? Please do share.
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I love this argument. I mean if not Pep, then why fecking try right? Might as well accept being shit.

There is ZERO chance Ole will take us to the next stage. Literally no other club in the top 4 leagues would take him if he were to be sacked tomorrow morning.

There is SOME chance a proper coach who isn't learning on the job can take us there. Take your pick from Pochettino, Rose, Nagelsmann. Oh wait, we dawdled by having faith in our great coach and look at how that turned out. Two out of three are now managing PSG and Dortmund, two teams who are better than us. But yeah, let's just carry on with Ole until all alternative options are unavailable.

If you knew anything about football you would know even Graham Potter is a far better coach than Ole. We could do so much better but some of you weird lot have deluded yourself into thinking he's the best we can get.
 
edgecutter said:
Remember when Fergie would throw on young players like Federico Macheda when we needed to win?
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Ah yes. The Macheda game. We all remember it. Hundreds of games, thousands of subsitutions, nearly none of them remembered by anyone. But everyone remembers when Macheda came on and clinched it out of nowhere. Know why? Because it was a fecking fluke, that's why. 99 out of 100 times when a manager throws on an untested young player, it does nothing at all to help you win, and in many cases you get less than you would from someone who's already on the pitch. And that's the reality managers live in, and should live in.
 
edgecutter said:
Remember when Fergie would throw on young players like Federico Macheda when we needed to win?
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Strats said:
Fergie wasn't afraid of gambling on younger players when things weren't working out. Ole is so incredibly predictable when he finally brings on a sub, which is always way too late for them to make a meaningful impact.
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I remember reading a comment here that said Ole wouldn't have brought himself on in the Champions League Final in 1999. So painfully accurate it is truly depressing.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
What would we be sacking him for? Not being Pep basically.

Ole doesn't have the team nor tools to take us higher than where we are. If we had the best team in the land I could understand the frustration but we don't. It's not even close. City have 5 or 6 bench players who'd start for us most games.

I think it just boils down the fact that our fanbase simply can't come to terms with us not being the best team around anymore. Got a news flash for you chaps. It's not Ole's fault we aren't the best team in the land anymore. Were you all in a coma during the 2013 to 2018 seasons? This decline goes way beyond Ole.
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The best team don't always win the best competitions. Liverpool more recently have shown this. Ole will be sacked before we have 11 world class players because he will underachieve in the process. Tuchel has shown as seen with Lampard that not everything has to become an orchestra of emotions regarding the manager like the players they can be replaced and the team improves.
 
justsomebloke said:
Ah yes. The Macheda game. We all remember it. Hundreds of games, thousands of subsitutions, nearly none of them remembered by anyone. But everyone remembers when Macheda came on and clinched it out of nowhere. Know why? Because it was a fecking fluke, that's why. 99 out of 100 times when a manager throws on an untested young player, it does nothing at all to help you win, and in many cases you get less than you would from someone who's already on the pitch. And that's the reality managers live in, and should live in.
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No one said Diallo would have surely won us the game. :lol:

But trying something is better than not trying at all. Why the feck leave the 3rd sub on the bench when we're 0-0, desperately need a goal and have lacked urgency all the game with terrible performance from our attackers ? What would Diallo have done any worse in these minutes ? Nothing. If he hadn't made any difference then at least you tried, you threw everything possible you had at them and what happened happened, better than not making a sub at all and be content with the shit show going on. Even if Diallo had done nothing and we still drew, he would have at least got few minutes of PL experience under his belt.

We would have lost absolutely nothing by trying something new but no, let's just surrender to the fact he would have never made a thing so why bother even trying ? Let's keep trusting that the players who have been crap all game will magically regain form in last 10 minutes and win us the match.
 
Actually this whole 3rd sub thing outlines the problem with Ole's sub management I have pointed some time ago in make a sub thread.

He basically only trusts certain set of players to win him the game and is afraid of shaking things up when it's not working because he simply doesn't trust the bench option, hence his subs are always very late in the game. He's always reluctant to sub Rashford and stuff because he doesn't trust anyone else coming from the bench to do anything so nah better stick with these main players and hope for the best.

I have never seen a manager who doesn't trust his bench options to this degree.
 
Fracture90 said:
You know that your team is coached poorly when the manager is keeping players that have been poor for the majority of the game solely because they can produce a bit of magic here and there.

Imo it just shows that he's relying on a bit of luck and individual piece of brilliance rather than a proper game plan and tactics that would enable us to create from positional play.
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You have absolutely nailed it there and will be the same story again at The Etihad on Sunday
 
owlo said:
I really dislike how everybody has to prefix everything with "Something positive BUT" as our fanbase is so close to civil war over the matter.

At least with Mourinho and Moyes you could come out and say what you feel.
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It's because there is far too much sentimentality in this fanbase towards him, obviously there were Chelsea fans who didn't want Lampard to get the sack too but at least with them you knew that board would be ruthless whereas our board hasn't got the guts to give Ole the push.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Just don't think he will bring in an outside experience coach, firstly they might actually know more than him and secondly he might see him as a threat. It is a nice cosy setup at the moment.
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You have totally nailed it there much like Tony can't cope with the added threat from Cavani
 
el3mel said:
No one said Diallo would have surely won us the game. :lol:

But trying something is better than not trying at all. Why the feck leave the 3rd sub on the bench when we're 0-0, desperately need a goal and have lacked urgency all the game with terrible performance from our attackers ? What would Diallo have done any worse in these minutes ? Nothing. If he hadn't made any difference then at least you tried, you threw everything possible you had at them and what happened happened, better than not making a sub at all and be content with the shit show going on. Even if Diallo had done nothing and we still drew, he would have at least got few minutes of PL experience under his belt.

We would have lost absolutely nothing by trying something new but no, let's just surrender to the fact he would have never made a thing so why bother even trying ? Let's keep trusting that the players who have been crap all game will magically regain form in last 10 minutes and win us the match.
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Sorry, but that's just sloppy thinking. There's a name for making a move you have no good reason to believe will improve the team: "Panic."
 
justsomebloke said:
Sorry, but that's just sloppy thinking. There's a name for making a move you have no good reason to believe will improve the team: "Panic."
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Not improve the team ? Your forwards were having a shit game. Rashford had a stinker. We weren't even close to scoring late in the game. Putting on a new fresh player wouldn't have made the matter any worse. At worst it would have still ended 0-0. What would we have lost exactly by making this sub ?

A sub being successful or not is something a manager can't control, but what he can control is at least fecking trying everything he can to win the game. What happens next isn't something anyone can predict.

I would take a gambling manager ahead of a manager who doesn't try at all.
 
justsomebloke said:
Ah yes. The Macheda game. We all remember it. Hundreds of games, thousands of subsitutions, nearly none of them remembered by anyone. But everyone remembers when Macheda came on and clinched it out of nowhere. Know why? Because it was a fecking fluke, that's why. 99 out of 100 times when a manager throws on an untested young player, it does nothing at all to help you win, and in many cases you get less than you would from someone who's already on the pitch. And that's the reality managers live in, and should live in.
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Thank god Fergie didn't have that mentality or Liverpool would be still on their perch.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Well given Pep had only just joined City and hadn't got his team together no real surprise on Conte. Look at that how turned out though. Think Pep won that battle. Not the Greatest of examples. This situation isn't the same. Pep is settled now in England. His team is too.

As for Klopp....that's a fairer argument and I still don't know to this day how he pulled it off. Laporte missing for City and them not replacing Kompany really killed them. So again this point is moot as they have now replaced Kompany and even Stones is back to his best too.

So yeah okay them. Go find me a Jürgen Klopp mark II and I will jump on the Ole out bandwagon.

This is the part where you have to name your guy. Easy to mock Ole and not give a solution. Who is this magic guy who is going to take us to the next stage? Please do share.
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Nagelsmann could be given the opportunity
 
el3mel said:
Pretty sure every big club around in every country works with the same standards. Just because a section of United fans want desperately to convince everyone to be content with mediocrity doesn't make it the case. If Guardiola went 3 years in a row just finishing top 4 and not challenging at all he would be fired.
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tomaldinho1 said:
This doesn't make any sense. We can probably guess most club's aims relatively accurately. At the top clubs you generally get a year as new manager where expectations are tempered and then it's full on assault for the PL. If progress is made, you stay and if not, you go.

City, United, Chelsea, Pool, Spurs = CL minimum target. Challenge for League title (maybe Spurs on the periphery here). Financially dominant (to varying degrees)
Leicester, Everton, Arsenal, Wolves = EL minimum, good spending power and have spent money for multiple seasons.
WHUM, Newcastle, Villa = Top half, maybe a push for EL. Maybe overrating Newcastle a bit here.
Everyone else = PL survival is priority, some like Leeds should easily avoid the relegation scrap but all these clubs generally are not big spenders and/or routinely have players poached by the above teams.
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AFC NimbleThumb said:
You overlooked the part where he said, ‘bare minimum for United’.

We’re one of the largest spending clubs in the world ffs! I’m yet to read anyone on this forum say it’s win the league or bust but yes let’s make a fictitious argument.

When has anyone ever said, ‘If you can't win the league, you are shit and don't deserve to have a job.’ ffs!
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He took over a team that wasn’t even good enough to consistently make top 4. He hasn’t really spent huge money and most his buys have been all right, except for VDB who was a pointless signing. Winning the league with this group of players is out of question unless City and all other contenders grossly underperform, so that should absolutely not be the goal that would determine whether he gets to keep the job or not.
 
Eternitiy said:
I remember reading a comment here that said Ole wouldn't have brought himself on in the Champions League Final in 1999. So painfully accurate it is truly depressing.
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I was going to say the same thing. He would not have scored the winning goal in the CL Final because Fergie would have kept on Cole and York because they might score a couple of goals.
 
Pick, pick, pick... pick, pick... pick, pick, pick, pick, pick... pick

any little thing, any bit of made up shit, anything at all, pick, pick, pick
 
Sarni said:
He took over a team that wasn’t even good enough to consistently make top 4. He hasn’t really spent huge money and most his buys have been all right, except for VDB who was a pointless signing. Winning the league with this group of players is out of question unless City and all other contenders grossly underperform, so that should absolutely not be the goal that would determine whether he gets to keep the job or not.
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He took a team that came 2nd in the PL and then the manager imploded because he could not get Maguire and had a fight with Pogba. We may not win the PL but if we had beaten Sheffield United, Everton, WBA and West Ham we would be within reach of City with this weekend game to come. All these games were extremely winnable. He should be sacked because he is incompetent to be in charge of the biggest club in the World. He could not even hire competent coaches to assist him. He is way out of his depth. If Moyes was Ole is much more. At least Moyes managed a decent size club for a long time.
 
Sarni said:
He took over a team that wasn’t even good enough to consistently make top 4. He hasn’t really spent huge money and most his buys have been all right, except for VDB who was a pointless signing. Winning the league with this group of players is out of question unless City and all other contenders grossly underperform, so that should absolutely not be the goal that would determine whether he gets to keep the job or not.
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I’d agree with you if this was a year ago but the aim now in his 2.5+ years has to be closing the gap on the league leaders. I don’t think anyone believes he should win the league but he has to improve on last season, there’s already a 14 point gap. If he’d had no money I’d completely agree but he’s spent about £300m odd and that’s not even addressing the issue with our style of football either.
 
PoTMS said:
I love this argument. I mean if not Pep, then why fecking try right? Might as well accept being shit.

There is ZERO chance Ole will take us to the next stage. Literally no other club in the top 4 leagues would take him if he were to be sacked tomorrow morning.

There is SOME chance a proper coach who isn't learning on the job can take us there. Take your pick from Pochettino, Rose, Nagelsmann. Oh wait, we dawdled by having faith in our great coach and look at how that turned out. Two out of three are now managing PSG and Dortmund, two teams who are better than us. But yeah, let's just carry on with Ole until all alternative options are unavailable.

If you knew anything about football you would know even Graham Potter is a far better coach than Ole. We could do so much better but some of you weird lot have deluded yourself into thinking he's the best we can get.
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Tell them
 
Sarni said:
He took over a team that wasn’t even good enough to consistently make top 4. He hasn’t really spent huge money and most his buys have been all right, except for VDB who was a pointless signing. Winning the league with this group of players is out of question unless City and all other contenders grossly underperform, so that should absolutely not be the goal that would determine whether he gets to keep the job or not.
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What's the point of keeping a manager in job in a big club or not if it's not winning big trophies? We are a big club. Our standards are that of a big club.

Next year is his 3rd year. It's ridiculous to assume that challenging for the league isn't a reasonable expectation after all this time in charge. Not challenging in his first year is fair, not challenging in his 3rd year next season will be a farce if it happened.

And he has spent a lot of money. He had brought an 80m defender, 50m right back, two 50m attacking midfielders, beside Cavani, Alex Telles and 20m on Daniel James. That's close to 260m. Next summer spending will bump his overall money spent to +300m at least. Pretty much fair expectation to expect us to challenge for the league next season.

Continuously saying challenging City is out of question is a defeatist mentality. They aren't gods. We were leading the league at one point with 3 points gap. We are now 14 points away because we lost points in ridiculously easy games that don't need us to spend 300 more millions to win. If we had won the games we were expected to win we would be at least 5 points of almighty Man City with a derby game coming on, instead of being 14 points away from them and approaching the derby in a hopeless case. What does City's quality have to do with us losing to Sheffield or drawing with Crystal Palace?

I'm sick of this mentality. "City are gods so don't bother". When did our fans start thinking like this?
 
What is Ole good at again ? Smiling after games ? Sitting looking at his ipad ?
 
Sarni said:
He took over a team that wasn’t even good enough to consistently make top 4. He hasn’t really spent huge money and most his buys have been all right
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How do you type out twaddle like that and not question it as you read it back? He's made one good purchase. One purchase that, with the benefit of hindsight, we would make again. After over £240m spent in 2 years.

And his aim wasn't to make us consistently top four, his aim was to build a title-winning team within 3 years (obviously not the real aim of Woodward and the Glazers and all the sycophantic gullible fans they rely on, the ones who will always buy into their propaganda of infinitely long "rebuilding periods", "top four is always a good achievement" drivel). But building a team that could compete for titles was Ole's expressed aim and motivation as he stated when he first became permanent manager. And so far he is failing woefully at the stage where things should be starting to really come together. The football is getting worse, the results aren't getting better.
 
I’m not blaming Ole or the coaches for the recent form. The players are running on fumes at the moment, playing every 3 days. Every team in the league besides City is crap and had run themselves into the ground
 
el3mel said:
Is your whole argument about keeping Ole is that there's no other available manager ? I mean it'll be better if you're actually convinced he's the best manager for us, not that "there's no other one available so let's keep him".
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Yet again no names. Very easy to moan and complain but very reluctant to name who you'd want. Oh what a suprise
 
hobbers said:
How do you type out twaddle like that and not question it as you read it back? He's made one good purchase. One purchase that, with the benefit of hindsight, we would make again. After over £240m spent in 2 years.

And his aim wasn't to make us consistently top four, his aim was to build a title-winning team within 3 years (obviously not the real aim of Woodward and the Glazers and all the sycophantic gullible fans they rely on, the ones who will always buy into their propaganda of infinitely long "rebuilding periods", "top four is always a good achievement" drivel). But building a team that could compete for titles was Ole's expressed aim and motivation as he stated when he first became permanent manager. And so far he is failing woefully at the stage where things should be starting to really come together. The football is getting worse, the results aren't getting better.
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Bruno was an excellent buy. Maguire and AWB have been all right. VDB was a pointless signing. Telles too early to judge, probably not good enough but at least it got Shaw to finally care.

He's improved us very significantly.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I’d agree with you if this was a year ago but the aim now in his 2.5+ years has to be closing the gap on the league leaders. I don’t think anyone believes he should win the league but he has to improve on last season, there’s already a 14 point gap. If he’d had no money I’d completely agree but he’s spent about £300m odd and that’s not even addressing the issue with our style of football either.
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Well chances are we will show improvement over last season. We got 66 points last year and had to rely on a strong finish to get into top 4. We now have 51 with 12 games to spare, so we will probably go above 70. We've also performed much better against non-top 6 teams. It seems like we have our tactics and approach nailed to perform against any team in the 7-15 range. The concern is when we have to play top 6 teams, where we become super negative and fearful, or bottom 5 teams where we can't break them down or apply any sort of style. If we can sort both those issues out, we should get closer to the top. Getting wingers that can create something for themselves is key.
 
Ole will play out this smartly, point by point, chuck 3pts in between and top 4 will be secured, clowns up top dont care about anything else and he will continue with his work, that way he maybe is buying more time to build and achieve something real or at the end he wasted everyone`s time. Everything else is just a noise made by camps.
 
Cast5 said:
The OleOut brigade really are the Karen’s of football.
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Do you ever contribute any form of football discussion? Because any post I see from you is you slagging off people that disagree with you but you never offer any form of debate around the subject (you know, the whole point of a forum).

This is exactly the problem with the football forums nowadays, and is exacerbated by newbies being given access to the mains early. It's really lowered the tone of the forum and helped contribute to the death of nuanced debate.
 
Toshey said:
In every draw we had this season, Rashford bottled at least 1-2 100% chances. He is letting Ole down massively. Can’t remember a single game this season that was decided by him in a positive way.
We had a lot of nothing games under SAF and we won by having a world class striker.
I reckon at least 7 of our draws in the league this season would have been wins if we had someone like Rooney, RVP, RVN etc.

A team can go so far without a great striker.
Cavani is good, but he is old.
Martial is championship level this season.
Rashford has been massively disappointing.

I reckon the only option for Ole at this point is trying to play Greenwood centrally.

We suffered massively for not going after Sancho or Haaland.
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I don't mean to be condescending and use the old "Did you even watch the game?" line, but, have you watched all our games or just the ones where Rashford wasn't the matchwinner? Handy Rashford appearance, goal, assist table

I think the biggest reason we're not getting the most out of him is lack of competition.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
And yet this ownership oversaw our most successful ever period.

Cause "manager".
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Yes, before the UAE had built City. Take them out of the equation and we would have won the league once even with our terrible post SAF management.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
@Sylar, I think we tried manager after manager for 25 years till we found SAF, Liverpool too with Klopp.
Managers are THE most important factor in most successful football clubs.

The experiences of the above make me think there’s more chance a new manager would take us to success than a few new players.

I’m not saying we should change now, but if the right manager comes along that would more likely be our route back to the very top rather than hoping Sancho and a CB will sort it.
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You could put Bud Spencer and Terence Hill on prime Barca's bench and they'd still win everything.

Klopp buying VVD and us getting Rojo is a bigger factor in their success than his "innovative" pressing/"system".
 
Foxbatt said:
He should be sacked because he is incompetent to be in charge of the biggest club in the World. He could not even hire competent coaches to assist him. He is way out of his depth. If Moyes was Ole is much more. At least Moyes managed a decent size club for a long time.
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Did you watch the football during Moyes' time in charge? You remember we were champions the season before and we ended up 7th? We've had Moyes, LVG and Jose in charge since Fergie and not one of them has secured successive seasons in the champions league. We are currently on course to qualify for the CL again, we're 2nd in the league, we are 14 points better off at this stage compared to last season, so surely this is progress? Do you honestly believe that we can go from floating between CL and non-CL seasons into PL winners? We finished 3rd last season and added to our squad with a backup left back, a 34 year old free signing & Donny (with Amad now joining properly of course). There is a lot of squad rebuilding to go before we are the finished article.

I have no issue with people being critical of certain results, performances, or games where we are flat, it happens and no one likes to see it. I get as frustrated as anyone, but you have to look at the bigger picture. We are getting better, but we are not there yet. Have some patience and please don't rewrite history to make it suit a narrative.
 
b82REZ said:
Do you ever contribute any form of football discussion? Because any post I see from you is you slagging off people that disagree with you but you never offer any form of debate around the subject (you know, the whole point of a forum).

This is exactly the problem with the football forums nowadays, and is exacerbated by newbies being given access to the mains early. It's really lowered the tone of the forum and helped contribute to the death of nuanced debate.
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It seems a tad optimistic to assume that what we're currently having here would qualify as "nuanced debate" if all the newbies contributions were removed.
 
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