Pretty much this. Our key players are fatigued. Prepare for more disappointing results and a scrape for fourth place.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Pretty much this. Our key players are fatigued. Prepare for more disappointing results and a scrape for fourth place.
How are we second? We have played crap football all season. We have had moments in games where we turned it on and got goals.
The problem is Ole thinks his job is secure whatever he does. We cannot accept poor performances week in week out. Since the Liverpool game, we have gradually got worse by the game. Our speed of play is so slow.
The game yesterday was interesting because every time we cross the half way line there was 0 options on the ball. Every player tightly marked, when they got the ball, they moved it around with relative ease, just that they lacked quality in the final 3rd.
At least they got to the final third and our box, we couldn't even manage to do that.
The annoying thing about Ole is he always seems to over play the opposition. NO, they are crap, there are 0 excuses.
The problem is Ole thinks his job is secure whatever he does. We cannot accept poor performances week in week out. Since the Liverpool game, we have gradually got worse by the game. Our speed of play is so slow.
The game yesterday was interesting because every time we cross the half way line there was 0 options on the ball. Every player tightly marked, when they got the ball, they moved it around with relative ease, just that they lacked quality in the final 3rd.
At least they got to the final third and our box, we couldn't even manage to do that.
The annoying thing about Ole is he always seems to over play the opposition. NO, they are crap, there are 0 excuses.
Allegri is favourite to be the next manager. Is he going to win it with these players up against Pep n Klopp? He'd need 500m and 3 seasons realistically and might still not win it.
As long as we under Glazer Woodward control I don't think we will be winning it. Something needs to give. Ole hasnt got the tools to win the title so stop treating him as if he should be.
Eh? Have you read this thread?
If Allegri is the front runner, then no way should we be getting rid of Ole.
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Glazers and Ed aren't going anywhere, the sooner you realize this the better.
And to answer your question, yes Alegri would win the league with this team. Because you know, he is a top coach. Yes his football is defensive like Jose's, I'm not arguing this.
Not everyone needs 3 years and 500m to make a team string two passes and have a plan going forward, instead of relying on Bruno to "Express himself"
That's quite extraordinary. And yet we have more depth than most, bar City and Chelsea.
I'll treat every manager the same : they should challenge for the league which should be the bare minimum for United. If Ole doesn't challenge for the league next season then move on. If the next manager doesn't, same.
Yep - that is why he was so good. It's logical that the style of play you coach will, over time, become less and less effective. SAF is a bit unique in that he ended his United tenure as basically running everything along with Gill whereas he started as a first team coach.
I can't really think of any modern day manager who is comparable because they are all, first and foremost, coaches. That's why I think the modern day head coach needs to be really deep into their tactics - it doesn't matter if they love pressing, love possession, love counter attacking, even defending....they just have to be innovative in how they get players to carry out their visions on the pitch. Look at the immediate impact Conte had with wing backs, he did the double over Pep and only lost 5 games all season, look at Klopp's short but dominant success of CL and PL, Ranieri's wonder win...so many different ways to win and we have just as much spending power as all of those clubs. We have just hired the wrong coaches.
As an aside, maybe Wenger's slow slide into mediocrity was heightened by the fact he didn't bring in as many seasoned coaches and stuck to his philosophy without evolving it. I'm not super clued up on Arsenal so might be wrong there though.
This./
Clubs outperform their relative spend against the competition every season, yes spending more will generally correlate with better results but we’re a club that spend €30mil+ on an 18 y.o. with very limited first team experience - this isn’t a dig at Amad, he’ll hopefully come good but the ‘Citeh spend more’ crowd need their heads checking.
Yeah and every club should have the exact same goal I guess. Either you challenge for the league or you are fired. Squad doesn't matter, age of the team doesn't matter. If you can't win the league, you are shit and don't deserve to have a job. Makes sense.
Mate nobody is asking for title here, we're asking to not play terrible football and beat Crystal Palace (or at least don't come up with ridiculous excuses). How hard is that?
Pretty sure every big club around in every country works with the same standards. Just because a section of United fans want desperately to convince everyone to be content with mediocrity doesn't make it the case. If Guardiola went 3 years in a row just finishing top 4 and not challenging at all he would be fired.
If we drop out of the top four at the end of the season, is there any way he keeps his job?
As disappointed as I am in our form over the last 10 games, some perspective is needed. Some of the journos who shit on United now didn’t even have us in the top four in their predictions before the season. Phil McNulty had us in fourth, while Miguel Delaney had us outside to name a few.
Where did you guys see us finish? I think I predicted 3rd, while being mildly optimistic.
Where did you guys see us finish? I think I predicted 3rd, while being mildly optimistic.
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This doesn't make any sense. We can probably guess most club's aims relatively accurately. At the top clubs you generally get a year as new manager where expectations are tempered and then it's full on assault for the PL. If progress is made, you stay and if not, you go.
City, United, Chelsea, Pool, Spurs = CL minimum target. Challenge for League title (maybe Spurs on the periphery here). Financially dominant (to varying degrees)
Leicester, Everton, Arsenal, Wolves = EL minimum, good spending power and have spent money for multiple seasons.
WHUM, Newcastle, Villa = Top half, maybe a push for EL. Maybe overrating Newcastle a bit here.
Everyone else = PL survival is priority, some like Leeds should easily avoid the relegation scrap but all these clubs generally are not big spenders and/or routinely have players poached by the above teams.
@Sylar, I think we tried manager after manager for 25 years till we found SAF, Liverpool too with Klopp.
Managers are THE most important factor in most successful football clubs.
The experiences of the above make me think there’s more chance a new manager would take us to success than a few new players.
I’m not saying we should change now, but if the right manager comes along that would more likely be our route back to the very top rather than hoping Sancho and a CB will sort it.
I agree with this. I was actually going to ask but you answered with regards to changing and who you think is the right manager. Fair answers from you (and not OTT like some)
We have spent more than any other team in the league bar city in the past 8 years. Yet Chelsea, Leicester and Liverpool won the league 4 times in these 8 years. What does ambition mean? Spending 120m on Sancho when no club can do that now not even city?
I guess Conte and Klopp won the league when city and Pep were sleeping?
The pressure is definitely on him now. Last few weeks have been horrible to watch and sudden dip in form doesn't look good. Being 2nd is all good and fine but truth to be told we are less shit and hence 2nd, not because we are amazing. The next 3 months could define his term here. Continue to play like this and we may just scrape the 4th spot and that is not good enough. Also, he has to win a trophy. Europa is now important, FA cup is now important. No more crap excuses.
Everyday passes by and he is still the manager, he and his fanboys will drag the fans ambition more towards mediocrity. They will make up any shit to defend him and normalise mediocrity.
He boasted this idea after the early bad results in this current run that we simply won't let City run away with the league. Yet, since then he is playing not to lose rather than to win.
if he manages the game so the goal is not to lose, throwing on a defensive midfielder into an attacking-ish role in the 75 minute, using attacking sub and then leaving 1 sub unused when we need a goal, then the players will respond in kind, with zero urgency to actually go win the game.
Fergie would throw on the likes of Macheda to win us the match or play 2 wingers on one side or even drop an attacking mid or forward into a playmaker role and throw on another forward, yet Ole had Amad and Shoretire rooted to the bench hoping not to lose.
It's quite clear he didn't really mean we were not going to let City run away with it, he just wants to make sure he saves top 4 and hope for a trophy in a knockout competition where anything can happen.
if he manages the game so the goal is not to lose, throwing on a defensive midfielder into an attacking-ish role in the 75 minute, using attacking sub and then leaving 1 sub unused when we need a goal, then the players will respond in kind, with zero urgency to actually go win the game.
Fergie would throw on the likes of Macheda to win us the match or play 2 wingers on one side or even drop an attacking mid or forward into a playmaker role and throw on another forward, yet Ole had Amad and Shoretire rooted to the bench hoping not to lose.
It's quite clear he didn't really mean we were not going to let City run away with it, he just wants to make sure he saves top 4 and hope for a trophy in a knockout competition where anything can happen.
We generate more income than any other team in the league FFS. We did so long before the Glazers.
Ambition means not only spending when we have not made top 4.
Ambition is not allowing Woodward to commit failure after failure for 7 years without stepping in to make any changes. E.g. replace him or at least get a DOF.
Footballing ambition would require us to have not spent £1bn on Glazer debt since their takeover. That should have been spent on players or facilities.
Ambition requires competence, which is not hiring possession based LVG, spending hundreds of millions and then getting in anti-possesion, counter attacking, Jose Mourinho. Who needs totally different types of players. Then spending hundreds of millions again.
Good post. It definitely looks like fatigue when watching. I've thought Bruno needed a proper rest about 3 months ago.
It shows lack of depth. But also Ole shouldve rotated much more, especially in that second leg game in Europa.
It’s Ole’s fault. This guy complains about fixture pile up, and then plays his first team in a game we’re 4-0 up in. He wants 5 subs, yet only makes 2, always after 70 minutes. The guys a joker honestly. We’re winning nothing under him.
People like Mata, VDB, Matic, James probably should have been playing more really.
When Ole first came in as a temporary manager we saw the players play powerful fast counter attacking football with good pressing before looking absolutely knackered and losing out on top 4 with a horrendous run of results. Last season probably isn't fair to include given the covid pandemic but we were struggling with fitness towards the final few games of that season too.
Maybe there is an argument that the players are being run into the ground. Heck we even went into last season with just three strikers (one of which was an 18 year old kid) and we were playing Rashford with a back injury.
Did anyone call for his head when he finished second?It wasn't until he turned into Mr. Hyde during the following season most fans turned on him, and rightly so.
Many people on this forum did. They claimed that if Mourinho didn't win any trophies, what was the point of hiring him? They demanded a proper title challenge and not one where we were behind by like 15 points, if not we should get a better manager playing more attractive football if we were to finish second.
Just shows you how much the standards have fallen now.
Pogba's injury was another one. The players are being run into the ground, which is exactly why Bruno and Rashford have gotten much worse. This is not sustainable and may result in a huge injury crisis. You can not go against physiology and psychology. Too much pressure is never good.
Such a disingenuous post.
Why is Allegri the favorite? This is just rumour mongering by a poster here.
You overlooked the part where he said, ‘bare minimum for United’.
We’re one of the largest spending clubs in the world ffs! I’m yet to read anyone on this forum say it’s win the league or bust but yes let’s make a fictitious argument.
When has anyone ever said, ‘If you can't win the league, you are shit and don't deserve to have a job.’ ffs!
I’m calling bollocks, I don’t see us ever hiring Allegri. The entire point of the Ole/Phelan project was to start building something with a long term vision even if Ole/Phelan aren’t the ones to see it through. The next manager won’t be another LvG/Mourinho or Allegri type appointment.
If he means “bookie favourite” well yeah, no shit, it was Poch which meant nothing and now he’s employed it’s moved to the next out of work manager, which also means absolutely nothing.
Because despite how easy people think it is there aren't many options. Even Eddie Howe is 6th favourite with the bookies.
https://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/manchester-united/next-permanent-manager
I think he is out of ideas. Needs to turn it around quickly or we might be out of the top 4 in 2-3 games.
It’s a tough one. I like Ole and I can clearly see the work he’s put in to sort the squad out, it finally feels like our transfer strategy is coming together after 6 years of shite.
But on the other hand I feel he’s took the team as far as he can, we need that step up in quality (both coaching and management) to really challenge at the top.
If he finishes inside the top 4 he will be offered a new deal but if we drop out he will be sacked in the summer.
But on the other hand I feel he’s took the team as far as he can, we need that step up in quality (both coaching and management) to really challenge at the top.
If he finishes inside the top 4 he will be offered a new deal but if we drop out he will be sacked in the summer.
Well given Pep had only just joined City and hadn't got his team together no real surprise on Conte. Look at that how turned out though. Think Pep won that battle. Not the Greatest of examples. This situation isn't the same. Pep is settled now in England. His team is too.
As for Klopp....that's a fairer argument and I still don't know to this day how he pulled it off. Laporte missing for City and them not replacing Kompany really killed them. So again this point is moot as they have now replaced Kompany and even Stones is back to his best too.
So yeah okay them. Go find me a Jürgen Klopp mark II and I will jump on the Ole out bandwagon.
This is the part where you have to name your guy. Easy to mock Ole and not give a solution. Who is this magic guy who is going to take us to the next stage? Please do share.
I doubt we will win anything with Ole. Players should be improving under the right coach. Greenwood hasn't improve, Rashford blow hot and cold, Martial is worst of the lot. Pobga is still Pogba. Can anyone tell me honestly who has improved in the last 3 years? These are young and prime players and they play good 1 week and bad another week. If this is Ole first season, I have nothing to say but this is his third season and it is still the same. Trying to buy his way to a championship with ready made players.
- You bring up Greenwood, but he didn't feature at all 3 years ago as Ole wasn't around to promote him yet.
- Rashford is hot and cold, but overall he has definitely improved under Ole
- Martial had his best season by far last season. Overall he has improved, but he's still too inconsistent. I suspect that will be the story of his career, but I hope to be proven wrong.
- Pogba I agree on.
Other players that have improved under Ole: Shaw, McTominay, Fred and Lindelöf.
So that's 5-6 players who have improved.
Is your whole argument about keeping Ole is that there's no other available manager ? I mean it'll be better if you're actually convinced he's the best manager for us, not that "there's no other one available so let's keep him".
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