Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Pogue Mahone said:
They do. But none of them have started out as strongly as Ole did, or sustained that strong start as long as he did. By a considerable margin. He had the longest opening unbeaten run of any Premier League manager, at any club, ever. Which, in my opinion, has earned him some credit for overseeing something more significant than your standard "new manager bounce".
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Could go down as the greatest new manager bounce ever.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
They do. But none of them have started out as strongly as Ole did, or sustained that strong start as long as he did. By a considerable margin. He had the longest opening unbeaten run of any Premier League manager, at any club, ever. Which, in my opinion, has earned him some credit for overseeing something more significant than your standard "new manager bounce".
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Di Matteo did win the CL...
 
Rhyme Animal said:
If the whole squad looks unmotivated, jaded and the football they're playing is utterly rubbish, for me, it's the manager every time.

Add to that something that no-one seems keen to pick up on - if they're not playing as directed, why isn't Ole -

A. Directing them from the touchline as managers will always do when players are going awol on the pitch and not doing as directed?

B. Actually subbing key players off that are blatantly ignoring his instructions?

The players have been training with Ole every day for 5 months now - 5 months, day-in, day-out, actually think about that - and then think about what you're hearing repeated over and over again in interviews from him - 'the United way', 'run more', 'Beckham, Giggsy'...

Quality players want to play good football, but they can't coach themselves. If you're gonna employ a coach, then the overall performance of a team they've been coaching every day for 5 months has to stop with them.

Players are human beings, and if - IF - Ole is actually a League 1 / Molde level manager, and they, as professionals can clearly see this, they might be forgiven for being less than totally over the Moon about dealing with his coaching every day and following what they view as lowly tactics.

And I get it - 'play for the badge', 'in my day...', 'feck off to Madrid then', 'haircuts', 'social media', 'dancing', 'lazy' etc - but if this club wants to drag itself out of the fecking dark-ages and become somewhere that players who are enjoyable to watch want to come to, then we need to understand that technical direction on the pitch (both training and matchday) is fecking paramount...

And we need to hold those whose job it to instill that on-pitch direction accountable - Solskjaer has had 5 months with a squad that finished 2nd last season, and that squad now looks worse than when he took over from the guy who was sacked before him.
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STOP IT
You're making too much sense.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
They do. But none of them have started out as strongly as Ole did, or sustained that strong start as long as he did. By a considerable margin. He had the longest opening unbeaten run of any Premier League manager, at any club, ever. Which, in my opinion, has earned him some credit for overseeing something more significant than your standard "new manager bounce".
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Yep. And has also presided over our worst run of form since 1962. More recently than the good run.

It's all just totally in the balance.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Whatever the case, he has three games to rescue the season.
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If he wins all 3 I reckon we'll sneak top 4 and Ole/Manchester United will be a tad more attractive to perspective new recruits and will hopefully pacify some of our current players that we are desperate to keep.

The thing with these 3 games compared to our recent run is that they are all winnable for this United squad.

We can't end the season with 3 more poor results, that'll put us in an awful position going into the Summer.
 
I recognize that man utd is a big club, and thereby draw a lot of different characters.
But reading this forum lately has been embarrassing as a football fan! The club needs a rebuild, like most of you have said for a long time. When the team and club has no coherence, and thereby there will be good performances and bad. The Everton debacle was an eye opener, wasn’t it? That’s where the team is at. Still 3 points of fourth place, and that is a miracle with both the players at the club and the injuries. Get a grip, or start follow basketball..
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
The table isn't the problem - I think all of us would have snapped your hand off if we'd been offered being in this position when Ole took the job on. The problem - and what most people are concerned about - is the spread of results. If our recent losses had been spread throughout the last 4 months none of us would have an issue with it, but unfortunately they have all come in the last few weeks...which suggests that there could be an underlying problem. No-one can argue that our results have literally fallen off a cliff-edge. No can argue that this is our worst run of results for 60 odd years. They are facts. What we can argue about is the causes. The problem is though that the improvement and then rapid drop-off in form is exactly analogous with what you see time and again in football after a caretaker manager is appointed. And that is the worry.

Basically, NONE of us have a fecking clue quite how much of the drop off in form is due to fitness, injuries, tactical mistakes, player unrest, fixtures, or the wearing off the 'new manager bounce' TM. It's all guesswork. So, as a club legend the natural position to take as a fan is one of trying to put a put a positive spin on things and try and stick those dark negative thoughts in the back of our minds. I get that. But the bottom line is we are now entrusting the next phase of our development - a phase that requires a huge amount of rebuilding and investment - to a guy that has overseen a relegation with Cardiff, has done well in the Norwegian league, has taken United on a great run of wins, and who has now presided over our worst run of form since 1962, a guy who - much as I love him - would not have been under consideration for the United job in a million years under 'normal' circumstances. We, none of us, can really have the slightest clue how this is going to pan out. And that feels like a particularly reckless position to be in after 3 unsuccessful managerial appointments, 6 years of shite football, and when our biggest fecking rivals in City and Liverpool are at the absolute top of their game on and off the pitch.

This is nightmarish.
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Are you sure, none of us have a clue?. Because there are posters who are cocksure that we are doomed next season.

We have entrusted our development with a "known squad builder" and a "instant success provider". Yet they failed and we found so many excuses to suggest that they were wrong appointments. Only Time will tell if Ole is good for the club or not.
 
Steven-UK said:
Were you around to watch during that era? OGS was class, and clinical as a striker. He'd be our best striker now by a country mile if he was in our current team as a younger striker again.
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Yes, I was and no he wasn't a great player, he was a very good player, we had 4 very good strikers at that time, none of them great. And he scored some important goals for us and maybe the most important in my life as a Utd fan.
 
Ole is bloody clueless. Sadly he's now here and it's another season of drudgery before he's sacked .
He's playing absolute poverty football. Defensive with some counter attacking long ball shite that we're sick of.
 
bleedred said:
Are you sure, none of us have a clue?. Because there are posters who are cocksure that we are doomed next season.
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Equally I've read quite a few posters writing stuff like 'Ole will sort this out', and 'Ole will be a success'...based on very little other than hope.

bleedred said:
We have entrusted our development with a "known squad builder" and a "instant success provider". Yet they failed and we found so many excuses to suggest that they were wrong appointments. Only Time will tell if Ole is good for the club or not.
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Absolutely. People are just really worried that we've backed the wrong horse by rushing into a decision based on results that were still very much in the 'honeymoon period' and the massive rebuild that almost everyone seems to think we need is going to be overseen by somebody without the skillset or record that 99% of us would have been looking for if asked at any point before December 2018.
 
Steven-UK said:
Were you around to watch during that era? OGS was class, and clinical as a striker. He'd be our best striker now by a country mile if he was in our current team as a younger striker again.
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Yes I was around and sorry but he wasn’t an elite player even though he was very important to United. Rudd Gullit, now he was an elite player.
 
Pace Abuser said:
Ole is bloody clueless. Sadly he's now here and it's another season of drudgery before he's sacked .
He's playing absolute poverty football. Defensive with some counter attacking long ball shite that we're sick of.
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Basically having to deal what Mourinho couldn't do with his own shit squad. Let him have his own players!
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Whatever the case, he has three games to rescue the season.
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But we will get bummed by Chelsea on Sunday. Hazard will be the best player on the pitch by a mile, because he is. Sideshow Bob will probably score. Everyone will accuse them of being game-raising barstewards, just like every team who comes to OT these days.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
We can't end the season with 3 more poor results, that'll put us in an awful position going into the Summer.
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genuinely wonder what would happen if we were to lose all 3, or lose 2 and draw one. It would take unprecedented levels of trust for the club to entrust Ole with £2/300million in the summer after a run like that. Hopefully we'll pull a performance out of the bag against Chelsea and finish on a high.
 
Steven-UK said:
Were you around to watch during that era? OGS was class, and clinical as a striker. He'd be our best striker now by a country mile if he was in our current team as a younger striker again.
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He was a great impact sub. One of the best we ever had. But he was never really more than a sub.

Had some good games on the wing towards the end too.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
If the whole squad looks unmotivated, jaded and the football they're playing is utterly rubbish, for me, it's the manager every time.

Add to that something that no-one seems keen to pick up on - if they're not playing as directed, why isn't Ole -

A. Directing them from the touchline as managers will always do when players are going awol on the pitch and not doing as directed?

B. Actually subbing key players off that are blatantly ignoring his instructions?

The players have been training with Ole every day for 5 months now - 5 months, day-in, day-out, actually think about that - and then think about what you're hearing repeated over and over again in interviews from him - 'the United way', 'run more', 'Beckham, Giggsy'...

Quality players want to play good football, but they can't coach themselves. If you're gonna employ a coach, then the overall performance of a team they've been coaching every day for 5 months has to stop with them.

Players are human beings, and if - IF - Ole is actually a League 1 / Molde level manager, and they, as professionals can clearly see this, they might be forgiven for being less than totally over the Moon about dealing with his coaching every day and following what they view as lowly tactics.

And I get it - 'play for the badge', 'in my day...', 'feck off to Madrid then', 'haircuts', 'social media', 'dancing', 'lazy' etc - but if this club wants to drag itself out of the fecking dark-ages and become somewhere that players who are enjoyable to watch want to come to, then we need to understand that technical direction on the pitch (both training and matchday) is fecking paramount...

And we need to hold those whose job it to instill that on-pitch direction accountable - Solskjaer has had 5 months with a squad that finished 2nd last season, and that squad now looks worse than when he took over from the guy who was sacked before him.
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That last part is just dishonest. The second place was a massive overperformance by all metrics. Squad looks worse now than when he took over, what does that imply? I don't see how it has been worse on the pitch unless you choose to ignore all but our most recent games.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
genuinely wonder what would happen if we were to lose all 3, or lose 2 and draw one. It would take unprecedented levels of trust for the club to entrust Ole with £2/300million in the summer after a run like that. Hopefully we'll pull a performance out of the bag against Chelsea and finish on a high.
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There is a local saying, "If a thief is stung by a scorpion, he has to remain silent". Woodward's modus operandi is to make a bad decision, then dither while the developments show how bad that decision was and finally reverse or amend said decision too late when all damage has been done and there is no chance of recovery.

So, he's given Ole the contract. 3 more losses definitely would prove it was a mistake to give it that early, but Ed being Ed will let it slide and continue with Ole.
 
What do people expect we’ve been a negative and defensive team ever since SAF left, that’s what all our other managers wanted. There has been no emphasis on pressing, pace technical ability or patterns of play.

No manager turns that round mid season, I believe Ole wants to change the way we play but whether he will commit to it and whether he has the ability to do it is clearly up for debate. His problem is he has been preparing the teams for individual games rather than instilling a new way of playing. He can’t continue to do that next season or he is finished.

It’s amazing how quickly people forget how bad we were before he took over and that we were getting worse. I don’t care who the manager is fixing the mess left by Moyes, LVG and Mourinho will take years.
 
Kapardin said:
There is a local saying, "If a thief is stung by a scorpion, he has to remain silent". Woodward's modus operandi is to make a bad decision, then dither while the developments show how bad that decision was and finally reverse or amend said decision too late when all damage has been done and there is no chance of recovery.

So, he's given Ole the contract. 3 more losses definitely would prove it was a mistake to give it that early, but Ed being Ed will let it slide and continue with Ole.
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Yup. He's a clueless spoofer when it comes to the football side of things. Hard to not get depressed about the long-term prospects for success with him at the helm.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
Yup. He's a clueless spoofer when it comes to the football side of things. Hard to not get depressed about the long-term prospects for success with him at the helm.
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Bankers eh? Only one thing for it.

shutterstock_940935581.jpg
 
I wouldn't lie the recent results are shocking and to an extent unacceptable. However, I feel ole has given up on this squad for this season and is taking these games as a preparation for his pre season and next season. People talk about what is ole's style but maybe he is not being able to implement one at this point of the season with these players. And maybe that's why he has been keeping on saying about how he cannot wait for preseason. It cannot be a coincidence. I will give ole time to implement his style (time will tell if he has any).
 
JustAGuest said:
That last part is just dishonest. The second place was a massive overperformance by all metrics. Squad looks worse now than when he took over, what does that imply? I don't see how it has been worse on the pitch unless you choose to ignore all but our most recent games.
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Give over with this drivel mate.

First off, I wanted Mourinho sacked, but feck it, if you wanna get into the actual nitty gritty of it, lets do it...

Mourinho's last 10 games were -

W4 - beating Juventus, Bournemouth, Young Boys and Fulham

D3 - drawing with Arsenal, Palace and Southampton

L3 - Losing to Liverpool, Man City and Valencia

Solskjaer's last 10 games are -

W3 - beating PSG, Watford and West Ham

D0

L7 - Losing to Wolves, Arsenal, Wolves (again), Barca, Everton, Barca again and Man City

Now, Mourinho had lost the fecking dressing room at this point - and his last 10 games are notably better than Ole's last 10 for feck's sake!

If that isn't enough, lets look at goals for and goals against and goal difference over those last 10...


Mourinho's last 10 games in charge -

Goals scored - 16. Goals conceded - 15. GD plus 1


Solskjaer's last 10 games -

Goals scored - 9. Goals conceded - 19. GD minus 10


Again, I believe Mourinho needed to go, but whatever way you look at it, after 5 months, this side is now worse than when Mourinho was sacked.

It isn't fiction, it's the reality, and the club should fecking act before embarking on Moyes II.

And if there was some tangible coaching going on, some notable improvement and you could see what Ole was actually trying to implement, that's fair enough, feck the results, but there isn't, at all.
 
Moriarty said:
It's nothing I haven't read elsewhere but no less valid for that. Question is, why won't the likes of Keane and Neville mention the Glazer family when they're giving the players a kicking? I'd love to know the answer.
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Attacking the Glazers directly might get Sky banned from OT, if not banned they might find harder getting interviews & we may a bit sh*t at the moment we are still the biggest draw on Sky.
 
i actually feel sorry for Ole having to work with this mess. it ruined 3 previous manages, logis suggests it will ruin him also and anybody else who tries it.
 
Un4givableB said:
Attacking the Glazers directly might get Sky banned from OT, if not banned they might find harder getting interviews & we may a bit sh*t at the moment we are still the biggest draw on Sky.
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If that happened, it would just make the Glazers look like petty tyrants. These people own (or rather they banks own) one of the biggest names in world sports. They should not be immune from criticism.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Give over with this drivel mate.

First off, I wanted Mourinho sacked, but feck it, if you wanna get into the actual nitty gritty of it, lets do it...

…
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The dishonest bit is using the 2nd place to talk up the squad for more than what it is - just to fit your agenda. As for the stats...

Using expected goals, which is a far better metric than just results (understat.com):

Mourinho 1.41 xPts per game in the league this season (17 games)
Solskjaer 1.85 xPts per game in the league this season (18 games)
Solskjaer 1.59 xPts per game in the league during his bad run since the Arsenal fixture (6 games: 2-0-4)

and that great second place last season: 1.55 xPts per game (38 games)
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Give over with this drivel mate.

First off, I wanted Mourinho sacked, but feck it, if you wanna get into the actual nitty gritty of it, lets do it...

Mourinho's last 10 games were -

W4 - beating Juventus, Bournemouth, Young Boys and Fulham

D3 - drawing with Arsenal, Palace and Southampton

L3 - Losing to Liverpool, Man City and Valencia

Solskjaer's last 10 games are -

W3 - beating PSG, Watford and West Ham

D0

L7 - Losing to Wolves, Arsenal, Wolves (again), Barca, Everton, Barca again and Man City

Now, Mourinho had lost the fecking dressing room at this point - and his last 10 games are notably better than Ole's last 10 for feck's sake!

If that isn't enough, lets look at goals for and goals against and goal difference over those last 10...


Mourinho's last 10 games in charge -

Goals scored - 16. Goals conceded - 15. GD plus 1


Solskjaer's last 10 games -

Goals scored - 9. Goals conceded - 19. GD minus 10


Again, I believe Mourinho needed to go, but whatever way you look at it, after 5 months, this side is now worse than when Mourinho was sacked.

It isn't fiction, it's the reality, and the club should fecking act before embarking on Moyes II.

And if there was some tangible coaching going on, some notable improvement and you could see what Ole was actually trying to implement, that's fair enough, feck the results, but there isn't, at all.
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You pick and choose to fit your own agenda. Why do you just compare last ten games?. Why not Oles whole tenure against Jose for same number of games?

As the other poster called it, its absolutely dishonest form of argument. Losing to Valencia and Barcelona is the same!!!!
 
bleedred said:
You pick and choose to fit your own agenda. Why do you just compare last ten games?. Why not Oles whole tenure against Jose for same number of games?

As the other poster called it, its absolutely dishonest form of argument. Losing to Valencia and Barcelona is the same!!!!
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10 games is a decent sample, it takes away New manager bounce but it includes 10 games that Mourinho had lost the dressing room for feck sake.

The stats are absolutely damning.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
10 games is a decent sample, it takes away New manager bounce but it includes 10 games that Mourinho had lost the dressing room for feck sake.

The stats are absolutely damning.
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You just spin in whatever way you want, all you are doing is picking and choosing to suit your agenda. So the new manager bounce ended only in the last 10 games?. That's some bounce, I ll tell you that!.

Maybe we should keep changing managers and win of this bounce always!!!
 
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